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baroque
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:16 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 153):
that the shareholders backed hefty pay raises to senior executives, within hours of shutting down the airline demanding everyone else take a pay cut!

None that I know voted for, so you need to qualify that. The vote defies belief and I suspect there will now be some checking of what actually occurred. QF were reluctant to release the votes at the meeting. Let us wait until Mayne S tells us what happened.

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 156):
So we will have the battle of the Sunday rning talk shows, all talking heads leave is cancelled!

Hope they get some good ones. Looks as if QF wants delaying action, but that could come back to bite as I dare say it will mean their own evidence will get a heavier mauling.

Pity there are not cameras in the court.
 
tayser
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:17 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 153):

I appears to be very poor "optics" that the shareholders backed hefty pay raises to senior executives, within hours of shutting down the airline demanding everyone else take a pay cut!

this is what no-one seems to be talking about.

How convenient they just had their AGM and now this... lol.

VA needs about 20 planes......... PRONTO! Or at least they should cancel their overseas flights and put the 777s on domestic sectors: they could probably charge and an arm and a leg in the next few days!!!! Especially MEL-SYD - with QF not flying that's a crapload of capacity gone with the Melbourne Cup on Tuesday... JB must be licking his lips
 
fanofjets
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:17 pm

Thank you, Dehowie,

Quoting Dehowie (Reply 3):
What a disgrace of a CEO.
Everyone from one end of the company to the other is in the wrong but it's ok to get a 5 million dollar payrise.
The best thing from Qantas would be for Joyce to be sacked immediately.
Amazing every employee in the company must be wrong and he is right..lol.
What a disgrace of a management team.
With his plan of off shoring jobs and self managed multiple million dollar payrises to management it's apparent he is on a mission to destroy what was one of the worlds great airlines.
A disgrace of a CEO

I'm glad there are fellow A.netters who see the problem of the huge disparity in wages among the top and middle/lower strata of society. Union busting has become very fashionable all around the world. OK, disclaimer time: my grandfathers, now long deceased, were union men. They fought against the grossly unfair and unsafe conditions of the workplace. They put their lives and reputations on the line. I am not saying that unions are - or have been perfect. They have suffered their share of corruption, unreasonable demands, and racism. But the alternative is so much worse - in my home state of New Jersey, USA, workers have no rights to speak of. An employer does not need "good cause" to fire an employee. An employer isn't even required to give a worker a break. Yes, one can be required to work six hours straight without so much as a bathroom break. Such morale-deadening practices are bad enough in an office or a school, but with an airline, the consequences can be lethal. At least two deadly air crashes in the US have been attibuted to pilot fatigue. I just hope that, for the sake of the people of Australia and its superb national airline, things can be worked out.
The aeroplane has unveiled for us the true face of the earth. -Antoine de Saint-Exupery
 
tayser
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:19 pm

Another thing to note... it's not just the Australian federal government who are intervening, the action is backed up by the Victorian and New South Wales governments as well (MEL-SYD traffic down: big doo-doo for them) all going in to FWA with the same solicitor(s).
 
richardw
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:19 pm

Quoting tayser (Reply 154):
probably same boat with QF29

looks like it has landed at LHR

13:30 QF029 MELBOURNE VIA HONG KONG LANDED 13:16 3
 
tayser
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:24 pm

Heathrow's going to have a semi-permanent resident for the next few days then  
 
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BoeingVista
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:26 pm

Quoting Baroque (Reply 157):
Hope they get some good ones. Looks as if QF wants delaying action, but that could come back to bite as I dare say it will mean their own evidence will get a heavier mauling.
QF are actively fighting to keep the planes out of the sky, they have reportedly stated that now they have decided to ground flights they would have to carry out a safety audit before they can restart them, safety is something that the court would be loath to rule on / over rule so even if FWA says fly 'em Joyce could fart around for days with a safety audit.

I imagine that grounding the airline must have sounded like a great idea in some strategy session, a big stick to whack the union but in doing so he has taken on the Federal government and the general public.

In the real world Mr Joyce, this.sh*t.is.real and will have consequences for all....

[Edited 2011-10-29 07:33:57]

[Edited 2011-10-29 07:35:38]
BV
 
weebie
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:27 pm

It's ridiculous to compare Ansett to QF. I think QF will be back in the air within a week.

Unions have been beaten for the moment I think.
 
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longhauler
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:27 pm

Quoting Baroque (Reply 157):
None that I know voted for, so you need to qualify that. The vote defies belief and I suspect there will now be some checking of what actually occurred. QF were reluctant to release the votes at the meeting. Let us wait until Mayne S tells us what happened.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ver-labour-dispute/article2218639/

I am not saying the news release is correct, just what is reported.
Poor optics.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
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BoeingVista
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:30 pm



Quoting tayser (Reply 160):
Another thing to note... it's not just the Australian federal government who are intervening, the action is backed up by the Victorian and New South Wales governments as well (MEL-SYD traffic down: big doo-doo

True but they wrote their letter asking for intervention before Joyce pulled what will probably become know as a Joyce at the time they were asking for the Feds to stop the union action..

Its official now, the court has adjouned until 2pm AEST

[Edited 2011-10-29 07:31:36]
BV
 
richardw
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:34 pm

Will there be any airports that will be the first to get anxious about the payment of aircraft parking charges?
 
tayser
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:35 pm

Quoting weebie (Reply 164):
Unions have been beaten for the moment I think.

I don't think so.

Australians are notoriously egalitarian/anti-tall poppies and the Today Tonights and A Current Affairs are going to go after the "battler" story and will no doubt make a great point about a CEO who just booked a pay-rise which is well in excess of his aviation peers and all this sh*t happens.

(You can thank the Irish migrants of 100-150 years ago for our egalitarianism - and what's funny (or better yet, ironic?) is that an Irish migrant is the one person who is the public face for what has and what will unravel in the days to come).
 
NAV20
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:38 pm

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 150):
My best guess is that the court will tell BOTH sides to suspend any and all industrial action

Completely fair point, BoeingVista. That Joyce guy will probably find his wings being clipped as well........

Maybe, from now on, 'Fair Work Australia' should be in permanent session. 'Distributing' a measure of common sense to the disbelieving Aussie public......

Have my doubts though. In a long professional career I saw my fair share of stuffups in both the UK and Australia. Some of them were put right by courts.

But others were encouraged - or even caused - by those same courts..........
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
pilotdude09
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:38 pm

This better be the end of Joyce. He has been nothing but trouble from day 1. Bet JB at Virign is laughing his ass off at the joke that Qantas has become.
I
It's not hard for Qantas to go to the table with the unions and come to a compromise. A week shutdown will be a lot more long term than at least compromising with the unions.

I love Qantas and fully support the unions because management continuously wants to offshore operations and hope this is sorted out quickly but more importantly staff get something out of this.
Qantas, Still calling Australia Home.........
 
qf002
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:38 pm

Quoting Baroque (Reply 157):
None that I know voted for, so you need to qualify that. The vote defies belief and I suspect there will now be some checking of what actually occurred. QF were reluctant to release the votes at the meeting. Let us wait until Mayne S tells us what happened.

But you're forgetting that the average Joe with a few thousand shares doesn't mean anything. It's the big corporate banking clients who are running super funds/investment funds that own 10% that matter, and they all care about profit above all else... Current management is turning a profit and has a plan to make money in the future. And is therefore successful in their eyes.

Quoting tayser (Reply 158):
they could probably charge and an arm and a leg in the next few days!!!!

They're giving 20% discounts to stranded QF customers for the next 5 days... That would be the stupidest thing they could do -- they would get more bad press for that than QF would for screwing their customers over...
 
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BoeingVista
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:41 pm

Quoting weebie (Reply 164):
Unions have been beaten for the moment I think.

Not even close

The public (and it will in the end come down to the court of public opinion) are not saying unions bad blah, blah they are saying WTF are Qantas doing cancelling my flight with no notice and leaving me stuck at a fracking airport when I should be home sleeping in my own bed; and when they eventually get home that's the message that they are going to pass on to their friends and family, along with don't book Qantas.

Massive own goal for Qantas.
BV
 
aloges
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:45 pm

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 172):
don't book Qantas.

That's the message their cretinous CEO is sending out already. If you let a labour dispute get to a point where shutting down your entire operations seems like a viable course of actions and then you actually take that action, you have failed your company tremendously.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
baroque
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:45 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 165):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 157):
None that I know voted for, so you need to qualify that. The vote defies belief and I suspect there will now be some checking of what actually occurred. QF were reluctant to release the votes at the meeting. Let us wait until Mayne S tells us what happened.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ver-labour-dispute/article2218639/

I am not saying the news release is correct, just what is reported.
Poor optics.

There is no doubt that is what is being reported. More than 50%, that is believable, 96%+ incredible.

Here is Ben Sandlilands from crikey
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalk...oyce-stamps-foot-shut-down-qantas/
In an astonishing dummy spit, Qantas Group CEO Alan Joyce has grounded the Qantas domestic and international fleet until such time as the pilots, the licensed engineers and the ground handlers withdraw their lawful industrial claims and campaigns.

However everyone will be paid until 8 pm Monday eastern time, after which the members of those three unions will be locked out. Those employees who belong to other unions or are otherwise employed by the airline will apparently continue to be paid and will be required to report for work.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-10-2...-rise-for/3607222?section=business
EMILY BOURKE: But the hot-button issue was the dollar figure put on Alan Joyce's salary.

FEMALE SHAREHOLDER 1: I think that for the staff of Qantas who we've been told have made us into the best airline, the best of everything, that they have to come here and be degraded asking for a pay rise is absolutely appalling.

MALE SHAREHOLDER 4: The whole merry-go-round of bonuses and performance-related pay is a sham, is a sham.

EMILY BOURKE: But in a vote that seemingly defied the mood, a resounding 97 per cent of shareholders voted in favour of a 70 per cent pay rise for Alan Joyce.

AGM CHAIR: I now declare the pole closed and the provisional results will appear on the screen.

(Sounds of dissent from the audience)

EMILY BOURKE: Chairman Leigh Clifford said the remuneration was justified.

LEIGH CLIFFORD: I think we all know what the world has gone through, and airlines in particular, over the last couple of years. And I frankly think the CEO and the management team have done a very good job in guiding this company through that time.

EMILY BOURKE: But that didn't wash with shareholders.

FEMALE SHAREHOLDER 2: I think it's the same as everybody else that it's over the top and that Qantas, unless they haven't settled the dispute with the workers and that they couldn't get the pay, they're destroying Qantas with what's going on. Qantas, its, staff, its airline, its crew and being reliable and safe. And that's what it is. And the management we never see, they're just destroying the company.

EMILY BOURKE: And your thoughts?

MALE SHAREHOLDER 5: My thoughts are that it was a complete waste of time because they had it all sewed up. They don't really want people coming to these meetings. They don't want to even hear from us.


There was something odd about the voting. Mind any fuss about voting could be lost in the grounding fracas. Coincidence, maybe not!!

Probably we will hear more about the voting. Something stank about that vote.

You can hear the meeting reaction on the vodcast.
 
Quokka
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:47 pm

You have to feel sorry for Alan Joyce. Not the CEO, but a student at Stanford University who has become the target of angry Tweets.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-10-3...-joyce-targeted-on-twitter/3608610
 
baroque
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:50 pm

Quoting qf002 (Reply 171):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 157):
None that I know voted for, so you need to qualify that. The vote defies belief and I suspect there will now be some checking of what actually occurred. QF were reluctant to release the votes at the meeting. Let us wait until Mayne S tells us what happened.

But you're forgetting that the average Joe with a few thousand shares doesn't mean anything. It's the big corporate banking clients who are running super funds/investment funds that own 10% that matter, and they all care about profit above all else... Current management is turning a profit and has a plan to make money in the future. And is therefore successful in their eyes.

Not forgetting that for a moment, and yes small holders are a minority, but I doubt they are that small a minority. As I said, it smacks of the free and fair elections for Saddam, he used to get 98% support too, and look where that got him! Tyburn jig time????

[Edited 2011-10-29 07:50:52]
 
Mir
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:54 pm

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 172):
Massive own goal for Qantas.

   Whatever labor disputes might have been going on, the unions did not choose to shut the airline down. That's all on the CEO and management team, and people are going to remember that.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
tayser
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:55 pm

Quoting Baroque (Reply 176):
Not forgetting that for a moment, and yes small holders are a minority, but I doubt they are that small a minority. As I said, it smacks of the free and fair elections for Saddam, he used to get 98% support too, and look where that got him! Tyburn jig time????

Furthermore, the big funds: no doubt many of our (Australians that is) super funds have some kind of stake in either QF or VA, they should be questioning the direction the ExCo and board have taken the company: grounding a fleet on aircraft in an airline = no income (except for the smaller subsidiaries) - if it goes on for a while (50/50 chance) that means their returns will be lower. Unless they were aware of the plan and that would open up another huge line of enquiry.

Regardless: the winners in all of this are the media outlets.
 
tayser
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:58 pm

Next thing to throw in the ring: what about Jetstar?

They're not grounded, however given that they just begun light industrial action (check in staff not charging for bags a week or so ago): will this provoke them to strike, in the process, putting the wind up the QF group management in Mascot?

one to watch.
 
avek00
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:01 pm

With a worldwide rationalization of commercial aviation capacity well underway, I have no qualms over the self-immolation of QANTAS. If it collapses, other airlines will take its place.
Live life to the fullest.
 
baroque
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:03 pm

ABC 2.00 am news reports that AJ will be called before the FWA Sunday morning to give evidence on the reasons for the grounding.
 
Michiganatc
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:04 pm

I noticed that at LAX QF has 9 aircraft parked there, according to "The Qantas Source."

-(2) A388
-(5) B744
-(2) A332

Does anyone know where QF has these aircraft parked at? The QF ramp at LAX is definately not big enough for all these. One of the B744 is VH-OEJ (Wunala Dreaming). Does anyone know if this airplane is in the hangar or on one of the ramps? I was hoping to get a picture of it parked.

Thanks.
 
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BoeingVista
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:07 pm

Quoting Baroque (Reply 181):
ABC 2.00 am news reports that AJ will be called before the FWA Sunday morning to give evidence on the reasons for the grounding.

Well he'd better get his arse in a car quick smart, its a 10 hour drive from Sydney and I hear that all flights are grounded..
BV
 
baroque
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:09 pm

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 183):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 181):
ABC 2.00 am news reports that AJ will be called before the FWA Sunday morning to give evidence on the reasons for the grounding.

Well he'd better get his arse in a car quick smart, its a 10 hour drive from Sydney and I hear that all flights are grounded..

   Good point. I guess he can do a video conference. The radio news does not go into such "delicious" details.
 
AussieItaliano
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:13 pm

Quoting avek00 (Reply 180):
With a worldwide rationalization of commercial aviation capacity well underway, I have no qualms over the self-immolation of QANTAS. If it collapses, other airlines will take its place.

Sure, on a domestic level, that doesn't bother me, but on an international level, it does. I'm not happy about the rise of airlines from the Middle Eastern and Asian countries that treat their own citizens with little or no rights, especially for minorities in those countries. Forget about how those countries treat gays and lesbians. It bothers me that the civilized world simply overlooks the human rights violations of these countries, and then grants their airlines not only traffic rights between the two countries, but also fifth freedom rights to other countries.

I agree with you part of the way, but I don't think it benefits the Australian economy, especially the Australian civil aviation industry to have business going from Australian carriers to State-owned subsidised carriers from other countries, particularly those with terrible human rights records.
Third Runway - LHR, Second Runway - LGW, Build Them Both!!!
 
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readytotaxi
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:14 pm

It looks like the Qantas web site has crashed, not suprising really.

qantas site


Must feel sorry for the 1000's of people who have had their travel plans upset at the last moment, and the poor airport staff having to suffer that frustration.
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
Growing older, but not up.
 
baroque
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:28 pm

For those in Aus (or elsewhere if you connect to the ABC site) the Qantas grounding is currently being discussed on
Overnights Weekends
with Tony Arthur

This is the link for Wollongong
http://www.abc.net.au/illawarra/?ref=portal_m10

That is 97.3 FM or the Sydney station is 702 AM and the dozens of similar regionals and cap city stations.

That link should work from anwhere and give you the same program live. Just click on 702 live on the right side.

There is also a special AM with Tony Eastley at 8.00 am Sunday 30 Oct 2011.

There will be a wrap up of the FWA proceedings to date in a few minutes.
 
AA767LOVER
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:28 pm

At the same time, I think they should get things PROPERLY discussed and deal with the hard facts and then clean house before offering itself to the public as a viable airline. If there is no unity, then there's no point to keep things going.
J.I. Tsui, American Advantage Member, United Mileage Plus (Premier)
 
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readytotaxi
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:32 pm

BBC TV News has just had a reporter at Heathrow who says that the Qantas desks are closed and there are no staff to give passengers information. Passengers are getting some help at the airport information desk, that can't be right.  
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
Growing older, but not up.
 
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BoeingVista
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:40 pm

Quoting AussieItaliano (Reply 185):
I agree with you part of the way, but I don't think it benefits the Australian economy, especially the Australian civil aviation industry to have business going from Australian carriers to State-owned subsidised carriers from other countries, particularly those with terrible human rights records.

My post above was kinda in jest but the point is real, Australia only has 6 major cities and they are at least 1000km apart (ok there is MEL-ADL but apart from that) it is impractical to drive or rail between them, 10 hours each way for a meeting? Air travel is part of the national infrastructure, we have the busiest city pairs in the world because of these distances. Even though it may be run by private companies it has to be run for the Australian public interest which means that Australia (and the Federal govt, like it or not) must be able to exert some control over it. What Qantas has done today and what the travel situation in the country will look like tomorrow will bring this home to the Australian public. I predict a backlash.

If QF does not want the responsibility of running an Australian airline for Australia then we will have to make some other arrangement. Or we can let it degrade until we are all flying Emirates from state to state and our infrastructure is at the whim of foreign powers. Its is more important for Australains that Qantas serves our state capitals and regions and Europe / America / Asia capitals than has several an intra Asia networks.

Its not going to be popular with free marketeers but the Golden share is going to have to be weilded.
BV
 
ManekS
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:40 pm

7 Qantas aircraft grounded at SIN (+ A380 Nancy Bird Walton). I'd really like to see where Changi have put these birds during their busiest hour.
 
baroque
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:41 pm

Yes video links to Sydney and to Canberra are being used at FWA.

It appears QF has been preparing for the lockout for months, which makes the LHR (and no doubt others) situation doubly grim. No "ready" it is not right.

Feds have applied for FWA to terminate all Unions actions and the lock-out.

FWA could merely suspend rather than terminate. And it could do each to either of the parties or to both.

Meet again at ?15.00 hours East Aus Summer time. And yes "they" do want Joyce giving evidence whoever "they" turns out to be.
 
ben175
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:44 pm

How many QF aircraft grounded at PER? I know the 333 running today's QF71 PER-SIN service is definitely here, half the plane had boarded when the announcement was made and all passengers were sent off.
 
747m8te
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:48 pm

Quoting weebie (Reply 5):
Brilliant move in my opinion. It's crunch time now for the Unions.

Something had to be done, and this has now brought attention to the government who won't be able to ignor it any longer! Kudos to QF  
Quoting weebie (Reply 13):
Maybe if they don't like it at QF perhaps the engineers would rather go work for Virgin or Tiger.

Qantas will rise again domestically. Business travellers in Australia simply refuse to fly with the other airlines.

Yeah if they don't like QF they can go work for Virgin or Tiger for less money....oh wait hmmmmm, both of these airlines outsource a higher percentage of maintanence then QF do so there wouldn't be any jobs around anyway!
Flown on:
DHC8Q200,DHC8Q300,DHC8Q400, EMB145,E170,E175,E190, A319,A320,A321,A332,A333,A343,A380, MD80, B712,B733,B734,B737,B738,B743,B744,B744ER,B762,B763,B77W
 
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BoeingVista
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:55 pm

Quoting Baroque (Reply 192):
Yes video links to Sydney and to Canberra are being used at FWA.

Logical in the circumstances!

Quoting Baroque (Reply 192):
It appears QF has been preparing for the lockout for months, which makes the LHR (and no doubt others) situation doubly grim. No "ready" it is not right.

Yep, and that makes some of Joyces comments less than truthfull.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 192):
Feds have applied for FWA to terminate all Unions actions and the lock-out.

Its gone way past nuclear so the feds will probably have to sort this out.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 187):
That is 97.3 FM or the Sydney station is 702 AM and the dozens of similar regionals and cap city stations.

Oh for flips sake, you've got me listening to talk back radio, grrrrrrrrrrr.

Alan Joyce did do something remarkable today, he gave Gillard the chance to look Prime Ministerial, can't remember her ever doing that before..
BV
 
SCL767
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 4:00 pm

Cathay Pacific Airways has issued a travel advisory on its website informing its customers that the grounding of QF's fleet will affect connecting flights on Qantas. Surely other oneworld members will be impacted by the grounding of the QF's fleet, i.e. pax booked on AA domestic flights connecting onto QF operated flights.

Industrial Action Affects Connecting Flights on Qantas

Quote:
oneworld partner Qantas Airways has grounded all international and domestic flights in response to industrial action. Cathay Pacific flight operations to and from Australia remain normal. However, customers connecting to Qantas Airways flights will be affected and are advised to check flight status on the Qantas website before departing for the airport.
Industrial Action Affects Connecting Flights on Qantas
 
photoshooter
Posts: 410
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:12 pm

RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 4:00 pm

Quoting Plane Holland (Reply 85):
A 2nd Sabena diaster waiting to happen?

Let's not hope for that to happen since it'll be 10 years ago Sabena went bankruptcy on November 7th.
I hope Qantas will continue with their services as soon as possible. Also I find it strange to easily
compare this story with Sabena's ... I'm sure the world's oldest airline won't disappear just like that.
'A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.' - Winston Churchill
 
baroque
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Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:15 pm

RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 4:06 pm

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 195):
Oh for flips sake, you've got me listening to talk back radio, grrrrrrrrrrr.

Sorry about that but as they go Tony Arthur is better than most. They sometimes get some surprisingly good callers, alas not tonight (Josephine!!!). There is a lawyer from Canberra who would have been worth his 20c but did not call in.

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 195):
Alan Joyce did do something remarkable today, he gave Gillard the chance to look Prime Ministerial, can't remember her ever doing that before..

Yes, well, if FWA half works she will have a grin wider than that of a Cheshire cat and Abbott will claim all the credit.

Talk about unions picking their moment, and I just hate horse racing*, but picking Mel cup week is going to take quite a bit of skin off AJ's bum.

*About as much as you hate talk back radio BV!!

Rod Quinn is worth hearing normally in the spot that Arthur is filling. But he is filling in for Delroy who is on hols somewhere overseas. Wonder if he booked QF cos if he did, he could be stuck!!!! So you might either next week or the week after get a personal trip report from the ABC on the subject of "the grounding". Arthur is OK, as he says, he has a great face for radio.
 
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BoeingVista
Posts: 2072
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:54 am

RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 4:22 pm

Quoting Baroque (Reply 198):
Talk about unions picking their moment, and I just hate horse racing*, but picking Mel cup week is going to take quite a bit of skin off AJ's bum.

Yep, that and all the police, government & security personnel, heads of state and journalists stranded in Perth! AJ is not making any friends amongst the movers and shakers!

And the day after he got a 71% pay rise amounting to millions he calls out the unions for asking for 2,5% he can't honestly have thought that this would have gone unnoticed, surely?

I really hope he got soundly drunk last night and did all of this in a hangover funk, otherwise it makes no sense.. was that a Mike Tyson tattoo I saw at the press conference?

[Edited 2011-10-29 09:24:28]
BV
 
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readytotaxi
Posts: 8037
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 4:29 pm

Quoting Baroque (Reply 192):

From this side of the Globe, can you tell us what FWA is about, what teeth does it have?
Can it work this out?
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
Growing older, but not up.
 
Ferroviarius
Posts: 257
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 3:28 am

RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 4:39 pm

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 39):
Excellent news. I only wish more airlines had the courage to do this. Weakening - and working towards eliminating - unions is a major step towards creating a healthier airline industry worldwide.

Good evening,

mah4546, are you really aware of what you are writing? Situations in Norway and Sweden are not so different from each other - besides, I had been living in Sweden for many year. (Det varken var eller är dummt där!) While I do now and then feel un-comfortable when the local bus drivers or kindergarden nurses going on strike because somebody wants them to work half an hour longer during a month or so, while I am having hundreds of un-paid and un-compensated "additional working hours" (I am in academic science), I still feel that strong unions are the ONLY tool to make sure that not 99% of all money end up in 3% of all human beings' wallets but only 95%. Those, who own the money, rule - and I am inclined to rather and nolens volens (sic!) trust an egoistic and low minded trade union boss than a rich CEO, how philanthropic and noble-minded he ever might be. It's the concentration of money and power, which is dangerous. Un-effectiveness - well, we have to live with it anyway.

Ferroviarius
 
baroque
Posts: 12302
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:15 pm

RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 4:43 pm

Quoting readytotaxi (Reply 200):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 192):

From this side of the Globe, can you tell us what FWA is about, what teeth does it have?
Can it work this out?

Fair Work Australia. An arbitration court for industrial disputes.

http://www.fwa.gov.au/

Fair Work Australia is the national workplace relations tribunal. It is an independent body with power to carry out a range of functions relating to:

the safety net of minimum wages and employment conditions
enterprise bargaining
industrial action
dispute resolution
termination of employment
other workplace matters.


Subject to being told it has done something that I have forgotten this will be its first BIG test. It was set up by Julia Gillard in her earlier guise as 2nd Lt to Kevin Rudd PM. Now she is PM and is going to watch this carefully. It has done bits and bobs to date but I think this is its first big test.

It is a descendent of bodies that had a fair bit of power at such moments.
Decisions of Fair Work Australia and its predecessor the Australian Industrial Relations Commission can be found on the Full bench decisions page or the All decisions page. Fair Work Australia decisions on applications for approvals of enterprise agreements can be found on the Enterprise agreement decisions page.

There are links on that page to earlier decisions. JG will not want it to fail and as BoeingVista points out there are a zillion reasons for it to want to be successful, but also successful extremely quickly. At first sight, AJ has picked the worst time if he has made a mistake and there are quite a few who will be doing their level best(s) to show he has made a mistake.

Who can seek assistance from Fair Work Australia?

In general, Fair Work Australia can assist in resolving disputes involving employers, employees and unions and employer associations who are covered by the national workplace relations system.

These include:

any employer that is a constitutional corporation
any employer in Victoria or the territories
the Commonwealth (including any Commonwealth authority)
any employee of one of the above types of employers
a registered union or employer organisation.

Unsure if you are covered?

Contact the FWA Help Line on 1300 799 675 to see if you may be able to seek assistance from Fair Work Australia.

What types of disputes can be referred to Fair Work Australia?

The main types of disputes that can be referred to Fair Work Australia are:

disputes under the terms of an award or a collective or enterprise agreement
bargaining disputes, and
disputes arising under the general protections provisions of the Fair Work Act 2009.


Superficially at least it has very strong powers. This is a major test.
 
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mariner
Posts: 19473
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 4:56 pm

Quoting Baroque (Reply 133):
While Mariner is better at reading between lines than most of us, clearly the action was timed to be after the meeting, so if there was supposed to be carte blanche and he was 96 or 98% backed (numbers seem to vary) surely a good operator would have stated the option clearly at that meeting. Not brought it on all of a sudden afterwards.

But he did say it. He didn't say "tomorrow" but he clearly said that if the industrial action continues he would have no alternative but to shut the airline down piece by piece.

Now - I wasn't there, I'm relying on reportage, but I got the strong impression that at some point in the not too distant future he would start taking decisive action.

Having slept on it, it seems to me that he and the Chairman believe that that they had no alternative but to do this. It was surely designed to involve the Commonwealth (through FWA) and bring an end to an almost impossible situation.

I am an old - strong - union man, but I raise my eyebrows at what the unions have been doing and by their reaction to the FWA.

I also raise my eyebrows about some of the commentators. Ben Sandilands, for example, who has a headline that Qantas "opposes RWA intervention."

That is an absolute corruption of the Qantas position. Qantas, in effect, invited FWA in - what Qantas opposes is any order that puts the planes back into the skies without the tandem end to industrial action.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 133):
With your background Mariner, does the 96%+ vote for the AJ salary not strike you as a bit strange????

I was mildly surprised by it, but not fall-over-in-shock surprised.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
bthebest
Posts: 437
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 5:03 pm

Can anyone solve my confusion of why apparently 108 aircraft are grounded when there's around 140 in the fleet? Isn't the ENTIRE airline grounded?
 
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Plane Holland
Posts: 472
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RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 5:10 pm

Quoting photoshooter (Reply 197):

Wasn't KLM the worlds oldest airline?

edit; did some research, Qantas is the oldest Australian airline and the 2nd oldest in the world

[Edited 2011-10-29 10:13:03]
 
bthebest
Posts: 437
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:35 pm

RE: Qantas Grounds Entire Airline

Sat Oct 29, 2011 5:13 pm

Quoting Plane Holland (Reply 205):
Wasn't KLM the worlds oldest airline?

KLM is oldest by foundation date, Qantas oldest to have operated continuously.

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