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AlexA340B777
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RE: LO016 EWR-WAW Emergency

Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:04 pm

6 continents, 85 countries, 748 flights, 90 airlines, 37 aircraft types
 
lhr380
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RE: LO016 EWR-WAW Emergency

Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:07 pm

(The views on this site are my own and no one elses)
 
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BoeingVista
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RE: LO016 EWR-WAW Emergency

Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:12 pm

That will buff right out, great job by the pilots   
BV
 
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BlueSky1976
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RE: LO016 EWR-WAW Emergency

Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:21 pm

Lot CEO just confirmed there was hydraulic failure reported immediately following departure from EWR. Crew was advised to proceed to WAW by LO dispatch centre. Emergency gear drop failed while on approach to WAW.

Source: press conference - live TV coverage
Proudly avoiding 737 MAX since 18.11.2020.
 
BA777
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RE: LO016 EWR-WAW Emergency

Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:21 pm

Excellent job. A situation us pilots never want to find ourselves in.

They even landed with tailwind which is impressive too.
 
777ord
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RE: LO016 EWR-WAW Emergency

Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:23 pm

amazing work of the crew!!! I used to work LOT when I worked at ORD and having worked on that EXACT aircraft makes me quite sad to see such a situation. But, again, outstanding work by the crew!

Thanks for whoever posted the video's!

edit:

For this situation, what is the correct procedure for securing the engines? What sort of precautions are taken when compared to say, a single/multi engine piston?

[Edited 2011-11-01 08:25:01]
 
Ychocky
Posts: 128
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RE: LO016 EWR-WAW Emergency

Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:25 pm

Another angle http://www.skrzydla.org/showphoto.php?photo_id=75247

Shows some foam kicked up.
 
je89_w
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RE: LO016 EWR-WAW Emergency

Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:30 pm

Amazing job to the crew. That was an incredible video and glad all ended well!
 
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CrimsonNL
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RE: LO016 EWR-WAW Emergency

Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:48 pm

Holy mac what a fantastic landing! What a scary sight seeing her getting lower and lower without a gear! Hope everyone is alright.

Martijn
Always comparing your flown types list with mine
 
trigged
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RE: LO016 EWR-WAW Emergency

Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:51 pm

Woohoo! Nice job by those pilots in that situation! I guess this is WAW's version of a giant slip-n-slide! Nasty situation with the best possible outcome!
 
rfields5421
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RE: LO016 EWR-WAW Emergency

Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:03 pm

I've never heard of a full runway being foamed in 30 years or more.

For one thing, foam makes it more difficult for the airport fire and rescue crews to get to the aircraft and help with the evacuation.

However, I have seen reports of a runway being foamed for a few hundred feet in length - 50 feet or so wide at the touchdown area to help contain any initial sparks.

I see what might be water spray kicked up near touchdown, but it is definitely only smoke from the friction in the final half of the 'rollout' run.
Not all who wander are lost.
 
Aleksandar
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RE: LO016 EWR-WAW Emergency

Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:04 pm

R-E-S-P-E-C-T
 
PanAm1971
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RE: LO016 EWR-WAW Emergency

Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:05 pm

Clap! Clap! Clap! Bravo! Well done! Give this man a Spitfire! He's ready for the Dover patrol!  
 
tcasalert
Posts: 448
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RE: LO016 EWR-WAW Emergency

Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:13 pm

Very good job by the pilots, amazing landing and testament to just how tough these old birds are. Looks like you could almost give it a buff and polish and it be airborne in the morning  
Next flight: Feb 2012 - BHX-CPH-BHX - SK MD87 / CRJ900
 
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yellowtail
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RE: LO016 EWR-WAW Emergency

Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:16 pm

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 54):
Lot CEO just confirmed there was hydraulic failure reported immediately following departure from EWR. Crew was advised to proceed to WAW by LO dispatch centre. Emergency gear drop failed while on approach to W

Is a hydraulic failure not reason to stay near an airport instead of heading out over the Atlantic
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
chootie
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RE: LO016 EWR-WAW Emergency

Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:23 pm

....By the grace of GOD..... Wonderful professionalism by the crew. Thankfully all ended well!!

Now THAT is real skill..               
chootie
 
ikramerica
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Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: LO016 EWR-WAW Emergency

Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:24 pm

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 65):
Is a hydraulic failure not reason to stay near an airport instead of heading out over the Atlantic

I assume it's for gear only, and you don't need the gear in flight.

I'm sure those in charge of EWR are happy that LOT made that call!
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
rfields5421
Posts: 6374
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RE: LO016 EWR-WAW Emergency

Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:25 pm

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 65):
Is a hydraulic failure not reason to stay near an airport instead of heading out over the Atlantic

It appears to be a specific sub-system - no compromise of the flight control systems, so no, it would not be a reason to keep the aircraft near the departure airport.

Also if the gear system is potentially compromised - you want the aircraft as light as possible for landing. Not just a normal fuel dump to get down to MLW, but get the tanks as empty as possible.

Quoting Aleksandar (Reply 62):
Take a look at this video

I don't know if you are replying to my post - but from the end of the runway landing view - it looks very much like the center 15-20M of the runway has foam from the threshold out a couple thousand feet.

By the time the plane gets to where the earthern berm comes into view - it definitely is skidding on pavement, no foam.

The foam around the aircraft after it is stopped is from the AARF which arrived at the scene spraying foam heavily.
Not all who wander are lost.
 
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United787
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RE: LO016 EWR-WAW Emergency

Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:30 pm

That was an amazing landing! Nostrovia to the pilots!
 
planesailing
Posts: 564
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RE: LO016 EWR-WAW Emergency

Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:37 pm

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 68):

It appears to be a specific sub-system - no compromise of the flight control systems, so no, it would not be a reason to keep the aircraft near the departure airport.

Which sub-system?

The main and nose gear on the 767 is operated via the central hydraulics system.

http://www.smartcockpit.com/data/pdf...767/instructor/B767_Hydraulics.pdf
 
ikramerica
Posts: 15136
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RE: LO016 EWR-WAW Emergency

Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:37 pm

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 68):
Also if the gear system is potentially compromised - you want the aircraft as light as possible for landing. Not just a normal fuel dump to get down to MLW, but get the tanks as empty as possible.

There's also the cost factor. It's far, far, far less costly to have the plane on block in WAW for repairs than it would be at EWR.

LO showed faith in their pilots and knew they would fly and land the aircraft safely even without gear. If I worked for LO, I'd be happy that they had so much faith in their employees.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
mirrodie
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RE: LO016 EWR-WAW Emergency

Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:39 pm

OK, the major question here is what to do re: Polish jokes??


Do we a) impose a short moratorium on such polish jokes, given the great endingwe've seen based on great skill....

Or????

b) is it OPEN SEASON on polish jokes???!!!


Totally kidding of course!!!

Stories like this and Sully's floatplane really highlight how far aviation has come!
Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
 
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ADent
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RE: LO016 EWR-WAW Emergency

Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:41 pm

Nice job by the crew - I have had rougher landings on planes with working landing gears.
 
YULWinterSkies
Posts: 1267
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RE: LO016 EWR-WAW Emergency

Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:42 pm

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 65):
Is a hydraulic failure not reason to stay near an airport instead of heading out over the Atlantic

In any case, landing has to happen... The more fuel is burned, the more weight is lost, the better for emergency landing. Crossing the Atlantic may also give more time to the destination airport to get ready.

Quoting TCASAlert (Reply 64):
Looks like you could almost give it a buff and polish and it be airborne in the morning

Well, we'll see... Write off would not surprise me.
When I doubt... go running!
 
CptRegionalJet
Posts: 53
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:34 am

RE: LO016 EWR-WAW Emergency

Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:42 pm

Quoting 727tiger (Reply 40):

Nope,Patroni will taxi it off the runway 
Excellent job by the flightcrew and lets not forget cabin crew for what seems to be a textbook evacuation.
 
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Plane Holland
Posts: 472
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RE: LO016 EWR-WAW Emergency

Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:43 pm

MP finished their last passenger flights yesterday, since they're using 767's one can go directly to LOT.
 
Aleksandar
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RE: LO016 EWR-WAW Emergency

Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:51 pm

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 68):
I don't know if you are replying to my post - but from the end of the runway landing view - it looks very much like the center 15-20M of the runway has foam from the threshold out a couple thousand feet.

Exactly, it did look like foam
R-E-S-P-E-C-T
 
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Coronado990
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RE: LO016 EWR-WAW Emergency

Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:56 pm

Very, very nice landing. Between the IR and LO emergency landings in the last week, I've been very impressed with the Boeings in these situations. Really impressive was the nose up attitude going down the runway. I noticed elevator up upon touchdown keeping the nose up. With less friction, I wonder if the foam helped it stay that way, however long it may have prolong the "rollout" (or "slideout" in this case).

Quoting 777ord (Reply 56):
For this situation, what is the correct procedure for securing the engines? What sort of precautions are taken when compared to say, a single/multi engine piston?

I have the same question. The engines are useless once you make contact, so I would imagine the PNF would cut the engines right at touchdown. Or better yet, the one or two second between flair out and actual contact.

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 54):
Lot CEO just confirmed there was hydraulic failure reported immediately following departure from EWR. Crew was advised to proceed to WAW by LO dispatch centre. Emergency gear drop failed while on approach to WAW.

I can't imagine what the captain must have been thinking all those hours. I'm sure the passengers weren't told until they were approaching WAW. But still, it seems a little risking crossing the Atlantic with a problem like this. I guess you need to burn fuel anyway and they probably wanted to land at their own base in daylight.
Bonanza Air Lines. The original BZ.
 
loveofflying
Posts: 117
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RE: LO016 EWR-WAW Emergency

Tue Nov 01, 2011 5:04 pm

One comment in the video audio says "maybe they'll leave it as a memorial"...  Amazing landing! Talking with people in Poland, all over the country in the news.
Fly the DC10 before you can't!
 
nipoel123
Posts: 244
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:23 am

RE: LO016 EWR-WAW Emergency

Tue Nov 01, 2011 5:05 pm

Quoting Plane Holland (Reply 76):
MP finished their last passenger flights yesterday, since they're using 767's one can go directly to LOT.

And NOT repaint it for a while, that would be great!
one mile of road leads to nowhere, one mile of runway leads to anywhere
 
scrumpy492003
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:01 pm

RE: LO016 EWR-WAW Emergency

Tue Nov 01, 2011 5:05 pm

Looked like a textbook landing.
Congratulations to ALL involved.
peter b95 c-ghfu
 
jfritz
Posts: 52
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:49 am

RE: LO016 EWR-WAW Emergency

Tue Nov 01, 2011 5:05 pm

Stick and Rudder! It may have already been said but how old is the airframe?
 
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EPA001
Posts: 3893
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RE: LO016 EWR-WAW Emergency

Tue Nov 01, 2011 5:06 pm

Kudos to the pilots. A very well controlled landing without the landing gear available to them. Of course why the landing gear was not available should be checked so that lessons can be learned.
 
9w748capt
Posts: 1776
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:27 am

RE: LO016 EWR-WAW Emergency

Tue Nov 01, 2011 5:07 pm

Unbelievable - hats off to the crew! Professionalism personified in every way. Thanks for bringing the passengers back to earth safely. Hope they continue to long and successful careers at LO!
 
babybus
Posts: 2379
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RE: LO016 EWR-WAW Emergency

Tue Nov 01, 2011 5:13 pm

I wonder how all the landing gear can fail at the same time? Surely the aircraft has back up features? What happened to the gravity drop system?

That must have been truely scary for everyone involved.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
cytz_pilot
Posts: 391
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 1999 3:34 pm

RE: LO016 EWR-WAW Emergency

Tue Nov 01, 2011 5:33 pm

Quoting loveofflying (Reply 79):
One comment in the video audio says "maybe they'll leave it as a memorial"... 

   That's awesome! Remember the brave colony of runway ants that heroically gave their lives so that those onboard could live!
 
ltbewr
Posts: 15660
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RE: LO016 EWR-WAW Emergency

Tue Nov 01, 2011 5:34 pm

While like many I am pleased that this a/c landed safely with no loss of life or significant injuries, indeed an excellent act of flying skill, I do have 2 big questions that will have to answered in the subsequent investigations:

One, what caused the failure of the systems to prevent all of the gear from descending and not able to be gravity dropped and flaps not operating; and Two, if there were signs of a hydraulic system problem, why did they continue to WAW and not return to EWR or divert to JFK or another airport capable of handling an emergency landing?
 
raaadek
Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 1:09 am

RE: LO016 EWR-WAW Emergency

Tue Nov 01, 2011 5:38 pm

LO16 cockpit - WAW Tower seconds before landing in polish, google translation below.

http://wiadomosci.gazeta.pl/wiadomos...767___rozmowa_wiezy_z_pilotem.html

Tower to the crew: LOT 16th you have permission to land. Wind mundane 104 nodes. On your final wi will tyrn off the runway lights


Crew: We have permission to land. Thank you.


Tower: Flight 16 to report. Runway in sight.

Crew: I see. Runway in sight.

Tower: Good luck

[Edited 2011-11-01 10:43:14]
 
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breiz
Posts: 1446
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RE: LO016 EWR-WAW Emergency

Tue Nov 01, 2011 5:39 pm

Quoting Babybus (Reply 85):
What happened to the gravity drop system?


And what happened to the hydraulic circuitS. There is supposed to be 3 of them, isn't it?
All hydraulic circuits are usually knocked out by catastrophic failure (explosion, structural failure) which is not the case here.
Or is it so that on the B767, only system powers the undercarriage?
Congratulations to the crew anyway. Impressive controlled landing.
 
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mke717spotter
Posts: 2212
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 9:32 am

RE: LO016 EWR-WAW Emergency

Tue Nov 01, 2011 5:52 pm

Its seems like LO's 767s have been having a lot of mechanical issues over the past few years, definitely a sign of how badly they've been needing the 787s. I think it was last year that the landing gear caught fire on back-to-back flights or something like that.

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Thread starter):
The affected frame is SP-LPC, the newest airframe, built in 1996 IIRC.


I flew on this frame three years ago ORD-WAW and its too bad because now it looks like it might be heading for an early retirement. Did LO receive LPC brand new from Boeing or was it used?
Will you watch the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions on Sunday? Only if coach Eric Mangini resigned after a loss.
 
gabrielchew
Posts: 3819
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 5:43 am

RE: LO016 EWR-WAW Emergency

Tue Nov 01, 2011 5:52 pm

Amazing job by the pilots! Maybe LO can lease an Airbus from LH?
http://my.flightmemory.com/shefgab Upcoming flights: AMS-RIX-BUD-VDA,ETH-TLV-FCO-LHR,STN-TXL-LCY,LTN-CPH-LTN,LGW-SZG,MUC-LHR
 
trigged
Posts: 238
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2005 8:25 am

RE: LO016 EWR-WAW Emergency

Tue Nov 01, 2011 5:53 pm

Quoting Babybus (Reply 85):

I wonder how all the landing gear can fail at the same time? Surely the aircraft has back up features? What happened to the gravity drop system?

That must have been truely scary for everyone involved.

Its possible for redundant systems to fail, happens all the time. This time it was just not able to handle triple faults in a dual fault tolerant system.

Scary, probably. The crew probably didn't notify passengers until approach in to WAW so it was several hours of boredom followed by a few minutes of sheer terror......


Reminds me of my first marriage.
 
wilco737
Posts: 7275
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 12:21 am

RE: LO016 EWR-WAW Emergency

Tue Nov 01, 2011 5:55 pm

Quoting trigged (Reply 92):
The crew probably didn't notify passengers until approach in to WAW so it was several hours of boredom followed by a few minutes of sheer terror......

I am sure the cabin and passengers were informed pretty early as the cabin has to be prepared for such an emergency landing and that can take up to 45 minutes. So the earlier the better.

The more often I see the video and the pics, I always think WOW... Awesome job of the crew, awesome that the airplane didnt break apart... Thank god that all are well!!

wilco737
  
 
1stfl94
Posts: 1082
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 12:33 am

RE: LO016 EWR-WAW Emergency

Tue Nov 01, 2011 6:08 pm

Excellent job by the crew and glad to see everyone's OK.

Quoting breiz (Reply 89):
Did LO receive LPC brand new from Boeing or was it used?

Delivered new to LOT in May 1997 and had a short lease to Santa Barbara Airlines according to Airfleets.
 
trigged
Posts: 238
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2005 8:25 am

RE: LO016 EWR-WAW Emergency

Tue Nov 01, 2011 6:08 pm

Quoting wilco737 (Reply 93):
I am sure the cabin and passengers were informed pretty early as the cabin has to be prepared for such an emergency landing and that can take up to 45 minutes. So the earlier the better.

I wonder how they broke the news to the pax... I can't see telling the pax back over EWR and let them slowly stew into a panic. Wouldn't it be interesting if a A-netter was a pax? That would make one heck of a trip report!
 
wilco737
Posts: 7275
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 12:21 am

RE: LO016 EWR-WAW Emergency

Tue Nov 01, 2011 6:13 pm

Quoting trigged (Reply 95):
I wonder how they broke the news to the pax... I can't see telling the pax back over EWR and let them slowly stew into a panic. Wouldn't it be interesting if a A-netter was a pax? That would make one heck of a trip report!

I am sure they didn't tell them at EWR about it. Maybe 2 hours prior landing... IF they already knew about the problem. If not, then they had time to prepare the cabin and passengers during the circling around the airport.

wilco737
  
 
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flylku
Posts: 597
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2006 10:44 pm

RE: LO016 EWR-WAW Emergency

Tue Nov 01, 2011 6:20 pm

I noticed that the over wing window exits were not used (at least on the right side of the aircraft). Is this a check list item for a wheels up landing? Do the FAs specifically brief passengers not to use them?
...are we there yet?
 
rfields5421
Posts: 6374
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:45 am

RE: LO016 EWR-WAW Emergency

Tue Nov 01, 2011 6:20 pm

Quoting trigged (Reply 95):
I can't see telling the pax back over EWR and let them slowly stew into a panic.

One reason to wait until an hour or two before landing.

Passengers very seldom get into a 'panic' in such situations.

The crew would have explained very carefully what happened, what was going to happen with the emergency landing. The FAs would have been going over the evacuation process. Going through the cabin row by row to make sure everyone understood which exit to head for, who was going to open the door, etc. Going over the things not to do.

If you keep people busy going over what they need to do to survive, they don't have time to speculate and let them think on their worst fears.

The landing was very nice. Would not have broken an egg.

But it was nothing which every B767 crew around the world should be able to execute the same way.

Of course the problem is seldom does a crew have such a clear issue and the time to prepare properly.
Not all who wander are lost.
 
Gdabski
Posts: 409
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2001 8:17 pm

RE: LO016 EWR-WAW Emergency

Tue Nov 01, 2011 6:23 pm

Quoting flylku (Reply 97):
I noticed that the over wing window exits were not used (at least on the right side of the aircraft). Is this a check list item for a wheels up landing? Do the FAs specifically brief passengers not to use them?

The overwing exits on the left side were used.
 
hiflyer
Posts: 1274
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2004 1:38 am

RE: LO016 EWR-WAW Emergency

Tue Nov 01, 2011 6:37 pm

Great landing...nice job

but

I question the wisdom of going across the North Atlantic with the center system down on a twin engine. Just sat with a 777 captain who used to fly the 763 who agreed...he would not have done it.

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