QF31 A380 Diverted To DXB Due To Engine Problem

raaadek · Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:04 am

Just saw it on flightradar24.com. Anyone knows something?

[Edited 2011-11-03 17:07:58]

[Edited 2011-11-03 17:59:23]

malioil · Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:10 am

It's at 10,000 feet which is quite strange.

I have no idea whats going on, but could it be a fuel dump prior to landing?

flyingfool · Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:11 am

It appears to be VH-OQC on SIN-LHR, new descending through FL100...

shamrock604 · Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:13 am

Quoting malioil (Reply 1):
It's at 10,000 feet which is quite strange.

I have no idea whats going on, but could it be a fuel dump prior to landing?

It would seem a fuel dump, and at 10,000ft, may indicate a pressurisation issue.

raaadek · Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:20 am

It descended into Dubai area at 23.30UTC so it has been going in circles for 49min now.

Stitch · Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:23 am

Appears to have been an IFSD of one of the engines per http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/...ect-diverts-qantas-flight-to-dubai

raaadek · Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:24 am

first news

A QANTAS flight bound for London has been diverted to Dubai after reportedly experiencing engine trouble.

QF31 from Singapore to London was diverted to the Emirate after an oil indicator warning light came on during the flight.

The flight left Singapore at 12pm local time (3am AEDT)

Some reports suggest one of the planes engines had to be shut down.

The plane is due to land in Dubai at 11.45am AEDT.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/mor...ouble/story-fn7x8me2-1226185577019

WestJet747 · Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:25 am

Is it common to go into a holding pattern that far from the airport?

raaadek · Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:27 am

left the holding, due to land shortly. flightradar24 is amazing!

malioil · Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:28 am

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 7):

My guess would be if they are dumping fuel, then best be over the mountains than on the city.

The aircraft is now out of the holding pattern and heading towards DXB.

Stitch · Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:28 am

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 7):
Is it common to go into a holding pattern that far from the airport?

Dubai is not very wide so QF31 looks to be within about 50-60km of DXB.

joffie · Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:29 am

Yeah seems to be heading towards DXB. At 6000FT now..

Wonder what the reason is, could be a diversion? Only a matter of time the press give QF another bad rap over this...

Edit: http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/mor...ouble/story-fn7x8me2-1226185577019

Press picked it up!

[Edited 2011-11-03 17:30:53]

raaadek · Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:31 am

Engine trouble has forced a Qantas flight from Singapore to London to divert to Dubai.

Pilots shut down the number four engine of the Airbus A380 about 90 minutes after takeoff, a Qantas spokeswoman told AAP.

QF31 left Singapore at 12.32am local time (3.32am AEDT) on Thursday on 14-hour flight to London.
Advertisement: Story continues below

Four pilots, 21 cabin crew and 258 passengers were on board when the incident forced the flight to divert to Dubai.

The aircraft was expected to land safely without further incident, the airline said.

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news...-qantas-flight-20111104-1myv0.html

joffie · Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:39 am

Interesting as this diversion comes a year to the day after the "explosion" over Indonesia where the QF 380 had to go back to Singapore!

tullamarine · Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:40 am

Quoting raaadek (Reply 12):
258 passengers were on board

Yikes!!!, The flow on effect from the shutdown of the airline appears to be ongoing.

malioil · Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:41 am

Aircraft has landed.

RyanairGuru · Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:12 am

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 14):
Quoting raaadek (Reply 12):
258 passengers were on board

Yikes!!!, The flow on effect from the shutdown of the airline appears to be ongoing.

To the contrary, surely they haven't cleared the back-log already?

(I know they have for domestic but there are many more flights per day, easier to sub larger aircraft between long-haul turns etc)

tullamarine · Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:17 am

I meant that this is a very low number suggesting a number of pax have chosen to fly with someone else.

BoeingVista · Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:31 am

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 17):
I meant that this is a very low number suggesting a number of pax have chosen to fly with someone else.

Yep, lots of international carriers to choose from, QF only has (or had) 18% of international traffic to and from Australia nowadays.

Streaming ABC News24, they are showing Qantas senate hearings overlaid with the news of the Qantas engine trouble, nice..

col · Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:44 am

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 18):
Yep, lots of international carriers to choose from, QF only has (or had) 18% of international traffic to and from Australia nowadays.

Funny what a few months of Union action and a Management shut down can do to your figures. Well at least BoeingVista you have some pax numbers to spin on the other thread.

BoeingVista · Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:51 am

Quoting col (Reply 19):
Funny what a few months of Union action and a Management shut down can do to your figures. Well at least BoeingVista you have some pax numbers to spin on the other thread.

The PAX number is fact not spin.

QF claim that they have been losing PAX share for years because of competition and its cost structure NOT because of union action, that is also fact.

Shutting down the Airline for 72 hours by Alan Joyce is also fact not spin, AJ said before a senate committee a few hours ago that the decision to lock out the workers was his and his alone.

Mir · Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:55 am

Apparently, Stephen Fry was on the plane, coming back from Australia:

http://twitter.com/#!/stephenfry

-Mir

col · Fri Nov 04, 2011 2:23 am

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 20):
The PAX number is fact not spin.

Yep, but I thought my comment was funny and branched between two topics.

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 20):
QF claim that they have been losing PAX share for years because of competition and its cost structure NOT because of union action, that is also fact.

Did they not also state that they have seen dramatic drops since Union action started? I am one of those Pax who decided not to use QF in Sep/Oct because of Union threats. Thanks SQ.

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 20):
Shutting down the Airline for 72 hours by Alan Joyce is also fact not spin, AJ said before a senate committee a few hours ago that the decision to lock out the workers was his and his alone.

I did not say shutting down the airline was spin, in fact I pointed out it was a potential reason for the low numbers. You seem to be spinning my words in spin against me, but I am not sure of the spin rules in OZ, as I lost my Strine dictionary which had a section on spin.

Okie · Fri Nov 04, 2011 2:28 am

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 20):
QF claim that they have been losing PAX share for years because of competition and its cost structure NOT because of union action, that is also fact.

I am just going to have to disagree with you there BoeingVista.
I agree on the cost structure.
But really, there has been a lot of slowdown's and delayed flights on the union front and well publicized.
There have been nothing coming out publicly over the last 2 years or so on the positive front between the QF management and work groups also well publicized.
Just in the last few days we have had a lock out also well publicized.

I do not have a dog in this fight but frankly when you have an airline or any company with as much bad press that has been coming out over the last few years, I personally would have concerns about scheduling a QF flight when there are other competitors in the same market. There have been many an airline that has failed over work group issues, it just looks like QF is headed towards that long list. Even if they do get things settled out QF will have to over come the bad press in a highly competitive market place. It will be a tough hill to climb to get market share.

Okie

ryu2 · Fri Nov 04, 2011 2:36 am

Quoting raaadek (Reply 12):
Engine trouble has forced a Qantas flight from Singapore to London to divert to Dubai.

Pilots shut down the number four engine of the Airbus A380 about 90 minutes after takeoff, a Qantas spokeswoman told AAP.

If it happened just 90 minutes after takeoff, why proceed all the way to Dubai? Wouldn't it have been quicker to just return to SIN?

Zkpilot · Fri Nov 04, 2011 2:45 am

Quoting col (Reply 19):
Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 18):
Yep, lots of international carriers to choose from, QF only has (or had) 18% of international traffic to and from Australia nowadays.

Funny what a few months of Union action and a Management shut down can do to your figures. Well at least BoeingVista you have some pax numbers to spin on the other thread.

This is a lighter than usual load, but at this time of year SIN-LHR does tend to have about 100 spare seats as it's summer in Oz and winter in the UK. Flights are full LHR-SIN however.

UALWN · Fri Nov 04, 2011 2:55 am

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 25):
This is a lighter than usual load, but at this time of year SIN-LHR does tend to have about 100 spare seats as it's summer in Oz and winter in the UK. Flights are full LHR-SIN however.

So people just accumulate in Oz?

Airvan00 · Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:01 am

Quoting UALWN (Reply 26):
So people just accumulate in Oz?

In Summer, yes.. Especailly if there is any form of UK vs OZ sporting events on during the summer.

baroque · Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:03 am

Quoting col (Reply 19):
Funny what a few months of Union action and a Management shut down can do to your figures. Well at least BoeingVista you have some pax numbers to spin on the other thread.

Not spin and another engine problem for QF, spin????? More like lack of spin?

SKAirbus · Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:08 am

If this had been any other aircraft or airline this would have been a non-story.

It was a simple indicator warning and controlled shutdown. Not an uncontained failure like we saw last year.

However, I will say this. Why do these problems always happen to QANTAS? It speaks more about their practices than it does about the manufacturer as Singapore Airlines has never had the same plethora of issues with their A380s and they have RR engines.

olba · Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:09 am

did BBC News really have to put this story on their website?

BoeingVista · Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:32 am

Quoting okie (Reply 23):
I am just going to have to disagree with you there BoeingVista.
I agree on the cost structure.
But really, there has been a lot of slowdown's and delayed flights on the union front and well publicized.
There have been nothing coming out publicly over the last 2 years or so on the positive front between the QF management and work groups also well publicized.
Just in the last few days we have had a lock out also well publicized.

Sure disagree, you have a right to be wrong.

From an article posted 07/11/2008 well before the union action began.

Quote:
QANTAS Airways’ share of international traffic slipped below 25 per cent in August.

And group market share fell after expansion by low-cost offshoot Jetstar failed to offset a mainline decline.

International airline passenger figures released yesterday show the growth of Jetstar into the fifth-biggest airline serving Australia did not prevent the Qantas Group’s share of the international passenger traffic in August falling from 31.8 per cent a year ago to 30.7 per cent.

Qantas Airways now holds just 24.5 per cent of the market, down 2 percentage points on a year ago and a long way short of the 42.7percent lion’s share it commanded in 1994.

https://blogs.monash.edu/travel/2008/11/07/qantas-international-market-share-declines/

The decline has been ongoing since 1994

EK413 · Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:39 am

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 20):
QF claim that they have been losing PAX share for years because of competition and its cost structure NOT because of union action, that is also fact.

Thank-you for your defense...

What spins me out would be the slow reaction to competition... Surely QF saw this coming years ago... 10 years ago perhaps...

EK413

packersfan · Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:40 am

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 31):
The decline has been ongoing since 1994

All the more reason for the boofheads in the union to tread very quietly.

col · Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:03 am

Quoting Baroque (Reply 28):
Not spin and another engine problem for QF, spin????? More like lack of spin?

Sadly, you are actually showing why QF has problems, you want more spin. Spin is just wasting time and energy. It does not give answers to the future. Spin is in the rear view mirror, when you should be looking through the front window as to where you are going. Sadly, QF has a driver and navigator who cannot communicate and a turn is required.

By the way, can you have two memberships to a.net? I think you and Boeingvista are the same people.

BoeingVista · Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:12 am

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 29):
If this had been any other aircraft or airline this would have been a non-story.

I think that anything involving A380's will be news for some time to come

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 29):
It was a simple indicator warning and controlled shutdown. Not an uncontained failure like we saw last year.

Well, the QF spokesperson mentioned oil pressure, it was the lack of oil pressure (and oil!) that began the sequence of events that lead to the uncontained failure on QF32.

Quoting ryu2 (Reply 24):
If it happened just 90 minutes after takeoff, why proceed all the way to Dubai? Wouldn't it have been quicker to just return to SIN?

Its being reported that the incident happened 4 hours out of SIN

baroque · Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:48 am

Quoting col (Reply 34):
By the way, can you have two memberships to a.net? I think you and Boeingvista are the same people.

No BV would never have made such a bad pun. Then again, if he HAD done it, he might have worded it so you realised that the reference to lack of spin was that the shut down would have lead to a distinct lack of spin in #4.

I don't suppose we can help both being right can we?

On the subject of load factors, as is known, I am a bit bewildered because the last time I booked and paid for a seat on QF31 months in advance, I was bumped off the flight. Now that did leave me in a spin! Wonder which fiendish Union I should blame for being bumped off the flight?

col · Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:58 am

Quoting Baroque (Reply 36):
I don't suppose we can help both being right can we?

And all the time..

Quoting Baroque (Reply 36):
On the subject of load factors, as is known, I am a bit bewildered because the last time I booked and paid for a seat on QF31 months in advance, I was bumped off the flight. Now that did leave me in a spin! Wonder which fiendish Union I should blame for being bumped off the flight?

The "Get The Bums Unloaded from Seats" union, or abreviated to "Get The BUS".

Tsveto4nik · Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:07 am

Again Qantas, again A380, again engine...

SKAirbus · Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:09 am

This sounds a bit out there but I'm going to say it and risk being ridiculed.

According to the BBC it is exactly one year since the QF32 incident.

With ongoing labour disputes that have gone on for some time and an oil pressure warning leading to the failure last year, could there be talk of sabotage within the QANTAS maintenance department?

As I said earlier it is curious to the point of suspicion that these engine related incidents seem to only be experienced by QANTAS with other RR operators not having the same issues.

[Edited 2011-11-03 22:10:22]

col · Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:22 am

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 39):
With ongoing labour disputes that have gone on for some time and an oil pressure warning leading to the failure last year, could there be talk of sabotage within the QANTAS maintenance department?

Why would an airline engineer risk people's lives!!

Also, the QF birds are higher rated RR engines, so maybe that could be an issue. The Engines are also looked after by RR. I am sure we will find out what happend soon.

astuteman · Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:50 am

Quoting joffie (Reply 13):
Interesting as this diversion comes a year to the day after the "explosion" over Indonesia where the QF 380 had to go back to Singapore!

And is quite likely to cause QF to be extremely cautious about oil warnings in engines, I would have thought...

Quoting ryu2 (Reply 24):
If it happened just 90 minutes after takeoff, why proceed all the way to Dubai?

Presumably, once the offending engine was shut down, the aircraft itself wasn't in any great danger. Good question though.

Dragging the thread back on topic..............

Rgds

baroque · Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:55 am

Quoting col (Reply 37):
The "Get The Bums Unloaded from Seats" union, or abreviated to "Get The BUS".

Alas, could not be them must have been the "Get the Boing Union" run by a couple of guys from Melbourne I do believe!

Quoting col (Reply 40):
Also, the QF birds are higher rated RR engines, so maybe that could be an issue. The Engines are also looked after by RR. I am sure we will find out what happend soon.

They are the higher rated engines, but AFAIK, they do not use the higher rating for take-offs from SIN to LHR do they?

Also while the engines are looked after by RR, presumably RR do not have engineers waiting at each stop, so equally presumably someone else takes care of the routine checks at stop-overs???? I asked this the last time a year ago and got no answer, who does these checks? I doubt if it is QF engineers these days.

In days gone by, it would have been QF engineers, but ??? no longer. I know in the old days, the flights from Aus to POM used to take "their engineer" with them. When they arrived in POM, he got off, put on his overalls and got to work checking whatever needed checking. Then he got back into his seat and returned to Aus.

It might be interesting to know what RR think about their deal with QF. Plenty of "you know what" was heaped on RR when Nancy's IPT parted company, but are design features really the cause of the RB211 problems?

Quoting astuteman (Reply 41):
And is quite likely to cause QF to be extremely cautious about oil warnings in engines, I would have thought...

Better believe that!! I like Fry's twitters from Dubai.

lightsaber · Fri Nov 04, 2011 6:02 am

I'll be very curious as to the engine issue. Although it is only a report IFSD. Not ideal, but not what happened to that Pratt on the DL 744 either.

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 25):
This is a lighter than usual load, but at this time of year SIN-LHR does tend to have about 100 spare seats as it's summer in Oz and winter in the UK. Flights are full LHR-SIN however.

Thank you for the perspective on the low load factor.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 28):
Not spin and another engine problem for QF, spin????? More like lack of spin?

Nice pun. Am I a nerd for getting it?

Quoting col (Reply 40):
Also, the QF birds are higher rated RR engines, so maybe that could be an issue. The Engines are also looked after by RR. I am sure we will find out what happend soon.

Something is odd that RR maintained engines are having this many issues. I think guarantees will be called upon...

I hope it isn't the higher thrust. We haven't even seen the highest MTOW variants yet!

Lightsaber

[email protected] · Fri Nov 04, 2011 6:28 am

Quoting Tsveto4nik (Reply 38):
Again Qantas, again A380, again engine...

Recently one of my company's A320s diverted after an engine failure during cruise...another diverted due to cargo fire warning, 3 medical diversions, 1 aircraft had to execute an immediate re-land upon rotation due to smoke in cabin and panicky pax, a rejected take off 5 kts below V1, a go around at 20 ft due to windshear (wheels impacted ground) ....all of the above occurred in the vicinity of DXB...and not even one of the above said incidents (including a B777 engine failure on rotation) even made it into the local daily rag

.... a QANTAS A380 has a controlled IFSD & lands in DXB and its headlines everywhere!

Quoting Baroque (Reply 28):
Not spin and another engine problem for QF, spin????? More like lack of spin?

A very good one hahahaha LOL

baroque · Fri Nov 04, 2011 6:31 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 43):
Something is odd that RR maintained engines are having this many issues. I think guarantees will be called upon...

I hope it isn't the higher thrust. We haven't even seen the highest MTOW variants yet!

Hope not too. Even the QF version is not nearly as high a thrust as the T900 is supposed to go IIRC.

Did not ??Jetmech or your good self tell us that RR seals were different from other seals and that RR had changed them just for good measure?

With the RR type of maintenance can you indicate, Lightsaber, what sort of a role (oops there goes another bad pun) RR will play? I presume that they organize major repairs but would they, for example, undertake inspections of oil levels and check oil seals or check for oil leaks at stops? If not, who would be doing this?

I don't really know how all this works, aside from travelling up to POM a number of times sitting next to the guy who would do the maintenance there. But Port Moresby was and is a very special place where many from Australia prefer not to stay overnight for a whole series of reasons that are definitely OT.

So how do things go with engine checks in more normal ports of call such as Singapore?

jpiddink · Fri Nov 04, 2011 8:08 am

Quoting [email protected] (Reply 45):
Recently one of my company's A320s diverted after an engine failure during cruise...another diverted due to cargo fire warning, 3 medical diversions, 1 aircraft had to execute an immediate re-land upon rotation due to smoke in cabin and panicky pax, a rejected take off 5 kts below V1, a go around at 20 ft due to windshear (wheels impacted ground) ....all of the above occurred in the vicinity of DXB...and not even one of the above said incidents (including a B777 engine failure on rotation) even made it into the local daily rag .... a QANTAS A380 has a controlled IFSD & lands in DXB and its headlines everywhere!

You'll have to admit that having Stephen Fry onboard, twittering out his own confusion does help a bit in getting this in the news though...

qfflyer · Fri Nov 04, 2011 8:17 am

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 39):
As I said earlier it is curious to the point of suspicion that these engine related incidents seem to only be experienced by QANTAS with other RR operators not having the same issues

This plane [didn't get rego] has just come out of A check, so the suspicion is that [this time] relates to checks done - unlike the last oil leaks after the inspections follow the QF32 incident - which were purely related to "the best in the world" QF LAMEs who were unable to put the engines back together properly.

nclmedic · Fri Nov 04, 2011 8:32 am

Quoting jpiddink (Reply 46):
You'll have to admit that having Stephen Fry onboard, twittering out his own confusion does help a bit in getting this in the news though...

He tweeted the letter he was given by QF on the ground in DXB. Apparently all passengers given it but can't seem to link picture via Twitter on here. Basically pretty awful time to be diverted to DXB - flights to Europe all pretty much full and NO hotels thanks to Eid. They did fully explain the situation and said engineers would take several hours. They were also offered lunch in the airport restaurant. Pretty good customer service at a station QF doesn't even fly to!

bastew · Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:02 am

My friend is crew on the flight. They are stuck in the air side hotel at DXB due to a lack of accom in DXB with the public holidays.

The crew need 20hrs rest.

Engineers are being flown out from Sydney.

All pax have been rebooked on other carriers and the A380 will continue as a ferry flight to London once the crew has has minimum rest and the engineers have arrived.

At this stage they are looking at 03:40 local time at the earliest.

[Edited 2011-11-04 02:05:34]

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