MAN News 44

David_itl · Fri Nov 04, 2011 7:58 pm

Onwards and upwards from MAN news 43

Now's a good time to start a new thread.

Round up of the week's new services:

U2: BFS, SXF
FR: ALC, GRO, BRE, CRL, FAO, HHN, IBZ, KTW, RZE, AGP, BGY, RYG, BVA, REU, CIA, TLL, VLC, BZR, BIQ, FMM & TUF
SI: JER
YW: MAD
DY: OSL
EZ: extra 3 weekly BLL
BG: DAC
BE: NOC, NQY

BD have taken over (temporarily!) of 2 of the 3 MUC services from LH

New routes announced over the past few weeks:

ZB: VRN (2 weekly from March), MXP (4 weekly from March), VCE (4 weekly from March), DBV (3 weekly from March)
SK: BGO (2 weekly to 4 weekly from 6th Jan)
LS: IST (2 weekly from March)

Dropped routes:
CY: LCA, PFO (though there's meant to be a brief resumption round Christmas)
U2: GOT (from January)
WW: their entire programme as they've withdrawn their base.

Route application:
SU: 7 weekly to SVO. Make of that what you will

Rumour mill
UA: IAD and ORD (IAD may be next year ORD less likely)
HX: HKG (weekly A332 next summer)
US: CLT (possibly 2013 for this though)

News:
FR reporting strong demand on routes and are discussing plans for 2 more based aircraft in 2013 to make it 6. Have indicated that their main focus of growth will be LBA + MAN at the expense of LPL.

ZB + U2 moving terminals

MAN wants to increase throughput by 7 million pax by 2018

SQ had a 77W overrun operating our MAN-MUC-SIN service with 143 passengers on board when it had it's incident in MUC.

[Edited 2011-11-04 13:02:19]

[Edited 2011-11-04 13:02:35]

[Edited 2011-11-04 13:05:27]

[Edited 2011-11-04 13:06:48]

[Edited 2011-11-04 13:08:07]

[Edited 2011-11-04 13:19:46]

[Edited 2011-11-04 13:23:29]

GT4EZY · Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:27 pm

The new EZY routes this week have been BFS and MAD......SXF been in operation some weeks now.

eurowings · Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:45 pm

Quoting david_itl (Thread starter):
Route application:
SU: 7 weekly to SVO. Make of that what you will

That sounds interesting!

RyanairGuru · Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:45 pm

Quoting david_itl (Thread starter):
UA: IAD and ORD (IAD may be next year ORD less likely)

Once UACO get the former CO 2 class long-haul 757s (and the UA domestic 767s are refitted) then these must surely both be on the radar. Perhaps scrap CO100/101 and put a 767 on EWR, complemented by two new services. Afterall the majority of passengers are connecting and - at the end of the day - MAN-IAD-SFO isn't really any different to MAN-EWR-SFO

Quoting david_itl (Thread starter):
US: CLT (possibly 2013 for this though)

Do US use their 757s TATL?

planejamie · Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:01 am

Quoting david_itl (Thread starter):
SQ had a 77W overrun operating our MAN-MUC-SIN service with 143 passengers on board when it had it's incident in MUC.

Ooh, not good! To clarify - this occurred at MUC? How did the pax get from MUC-MAN?

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 3):
Do US use their 757s TATL?

They do to DUB, I think they're not anything fancy (just recliner business seats and no PTVs)

LN-KGL · Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:15 am

Quoting david_itl (Thread starter):
SK: BGO (2 weekly to 4 weekly from 6th Jan)

I think we need to correct SK BGO a bit

6 January - 23 March 2012: 2 weekly, Mon Fri
From 25 March 2012: 4 weekly, Mon Thu Fri Sun

RyanairGuru · Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:19 am

Quoting planejamie (Reply 4):
this occurred at MUC? How did the pax get from MUC-MAN?

This was the MAN-MUC flight, so the question is actually how did they get from MUC-SIN!

Reading the thread relating to this incident they were given hotels and as many as possible were rebooked on LH. The remainder had to sit it out overnight and fly out on the next day SQ and LH services.

eurowings · Sat Nov 05, 2011 10:35 am

Quoting planejamie (Reply 4):
Ooh, not good! To clarify - this occurred at MUC? How did the pax get from MUC-MAN?

It came to a rest in the grass and no evacuation was required, but there will obviously be a full investigation.

I am curious about the upcoming terminal changes, specifically regarding T3. We know that EZY will be moving to T1 at the end of November and that Monarch will move to T2 from the middle of November. However, where does this leave T3, with one of their major users gone? I heard that it was proposed that the likes of KL, LX and LH were to move to T3, is this still the plan?

David_itl · Sat Nov 05, 2011 5:29 pm

Apparently KL going to T3 in December.

TP seem to be going daily to LIS as of June next year.

mhodgson · Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:05 pm

I realise it wasn't the first flight, but I have seen the Biman Bangladesh flight with my own eyes. Possibly the one consistent thing since MAN News 1 that has always been predicted but has never actually happened; now we make it to 44 and it's real...

I imagine hell will also freeze over shortly.

David_itl · Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:21 pm

Quoting mhodgson (Reply 9):
now we make it to 44 and it's real...

and the combined LHR/MAN outbound load on the inaugural service was over 400 passengers with 34 out of the 35 business class seats sold - MAN supplied over 200 pax but don't know the split between business and economy. Inbound i've seen it quoted as being between 30 and 50 passengers. Now BG say over 1000 pax a week route to/from Bangadesh from the MAN catchment area so it remains to be seen how they do and if they will convert it to DAC-MAN-JFK-MAN-DAC routing in due course.

planejamie · Sun Nov 06, 2011 12:09 am

Quoting david_itl (Reply 8):
I am curious about the upcoming terminal changes, specifically regarding T3. We know that EZY will be moving to T1 at the end of November and that Monarch will move to T2 from the middle of November. However, where does this leave T3, with one of their major users gone? I heard that it was proposed that the likes of KL, LX and LH were to move to T3, is this still the plan?

I predict it's to allow BE to grow a bit more out of Terminal 3 as T3 is a bit more suited towards regional ops. KL is coming over because AF is already there due to BE (kinda a long chain). If that's the case, I predict other SkyTeam carriers will come over (DL maybe) as they're not using widebodies. Could make quite a nice connecting point for regional domestic and european flights connecting to the US...

LH, LX, and Star carriers I reckon will stay at Terminal 1 and I think in a few years, we'll see Terminal 2 for Low Cost/Charter/Holiday carriers, and Terminals 1 & 3 for Long/Short haul legacies. I see no reason for LH or LX to move their current setup, we might see SN go to Terminal 1, that seems a bit more logical if the BA/BD deal goes through...

One thing I've never understood is why Terminal 1 and 3 arn't linked land and airside - the buildings pretty much overlap in the middle and it would eliminate the Terminal 1 arrival maze I went through from Gate 23 and from the other pier with LX...

gkirk · Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:35 am

Looks like VKG1901 ARN-AUA is heading into MAN, operated by A333 OY-VKH. Presume it's just a splash and dash?

Danfearn77 · Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:54 am

Quoting gkirk (Reply 12):

Spoke to the captain last week. It's because this type of A333 can't make it non stop, so pops into MAN to refuel and to change crew. This should only be for a few weeks as they receive another 333 which can manage it non stop.

Luftymatt · Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:44 am

Quoting planejamie (Reply 11):
). If that's the case, I predict other SkyTeam carriers will come over (DL maybe)

I've heard that DL may move to T3 as well. T3 can take wide-bodies so that won't be a problem

GT4EZY · Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:57 pm

KL to move to T3 on December 6th apparently.

Candid76 · Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:38 pm

Quoting planejamie (Reply 11):
One thing I've never understood is why Terminal 1 and 3 arn't linked land and airside - the buildings pretty much overlap in the middle and it would eliminate the Terminal 1 arrival maze I went through from Gate 23 and from the other pier with LX...

What will probably happen in a few years' time is that the Tower Block (the old 1960s building which hosts ATC) is likely to be demolished once the new ATC Tower is open and established. This would then allow T1 and T3 to be linked much better both landside and airside.

spud757 · Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:53 pm

Quoting planejamie (Reply 11):
KL is coming over because AF is already there due to BE

Makes sense. Will they open their own lounge? Does AF use the BE lounge at the moment. With the demise of BD on the cards will the BD lounge be taken over by AF-KL for SkyTeam?

Quoting planejamie (Reply 11):
I predict other SkyTeam carriers will come over (DL maybe) as they're not using widebodies

DL uses the 767 on ATL. T3 can handle widebodies - BA/BD/AA have all operated either 767 or A330 from T3 in the past.

Quoting planejamie (Reply 11):
One thing I've never understood is why Terminal 1 and 3 arn't linked land and airside

Landside connection between the two was possible until the section in T3 became security and T1 airside grew bigger. Airside connections could be improved though.

If T2 is turning more holiday charter and LCC will SQ and QR be moved over to T1. Don't think T2 would have the space to take LS and/or TC

RyanairGuru · Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:41 pm

Quoting spud757 (Reply 17):
If T2 is turning more holiday charter and LCC will SQ and QR be moved over to T1

I know that the stated intention for T2 is charter etc, but I think the USA traffic (+SQ) will stay there since that keeps it busy between the charters leaving at 6-7am and not returning until 1-3pm.

QR, however, is a possibility for T1 just to homogenise the MidEast experience!

gkirk · Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:05 am

CO MAN-EWR down to 1 x Daily next summer, replaced by a daily MAN-IAD

http://airlineroute.net/2011/11/08/ua-dubman-s12/

RyanairGuru · Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:54 am

Quoting gkirk (Reply 19):
CO MAN-EWR down to 1 x Daily next summer, replaced by a daily MAN-IAD

I see that they are keeping the 100/101 flight codes for IAD so it is a direct swap. However I would have expected EWR to have been upgraded to a 767 but it is staying as a 757. Maybe once the domestic UA 767s get the CO long-haul product they will upgrade the route...

Danfearn77 · Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:12 pm

Quoting spud757 (Reply 17):
If T2 is turning more holiday charter and LCC will SQ and QR be moved over to T1. Don't think T2 would have the space to take LS and/or TC

Last rumour I heard was SQ and QR both refused to move to T1. Not sure how much truth there is in that. Apparently they are happy with the simple layout in T2. Makes sense I suppose!!

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 20):

Quoting gkirk (Reply 19):
CO MAN-EWR down to 1 x Daily next summer, replaced by a daily MAN-IAD

I see that they are keeping the 100/101 flight codes for IAD so it is a direct swap. However I would have expected EWR to have been upgraded to a 767 but it is staying as a 757. Maybe once the domestic UA 767s get the CO long-haul product they will upgrade the route...

I'd heard this rumour a while back from a mate of a mate. He told me only the other day that there are strong Rumours of CO/UA upgrading the 20/21 to a 767 for summer '12. Time will tell!

RyanairGuru · Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:16 am

Quoting danfearn77 (Reply 21):
they are happy with the simple layout in T2.

Hallelujah!

Daleaholic · Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:16 am

SQ have looked into a move to T1 but the dark and miserable check in hall coupled with the complicated layout of the gates worked in favour of them staying put in T2.

lisbonbearuk · Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:47 am

LH have officially announced BER-MAN for next summer.

BlueShamu330s · Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:11 am

Quoting lisbonbearuk (Reply 24):
LH have officially announced BER-MAN for next summer.

07:00 Berlin 07:55 Manchester

08:35 Manchester 11:30 Berlin

Daily, A319.

Rgds

mainMAN · Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:24 pm

Quoting gkirk (Reply 19):
CO MAN-EWR down to 1 x Daily next summer, replaced by a daily MAN-IAD

Excellent, and not unsurprising seeing as they have to slog it out to NYC in the company of DL and AA during the summer.

Quoting lisbonbearuk (Reply 24):
LH have officially announced BER-MAN for next summer.

Doubly excellent, and LH have also announced BHX - BER too. The lack of BER is one omission our friends down the M6 have been complaining about for ages.

GT4EZY · Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:04 pm

Quoting spud757 (Reply 17):
If T2 is turning more holiday charter and LCC will SQ and QR be moved over to T1. Don't think T2 would have the space to take LS and/or TC

Quoting gkirk (Reply 19):
CO MAN-EWR down to 1 x Daily next summer, replaced by a daily MAN-IAD

Quoting blueshamu330s (Reply 25):
07:00 Berlin 07:55 Manchester

08:35 Manchester 11:30 Berlin

Daily, A319.

Rgds

Like MAD you wait years for service then you get lots of it. lol. I genuinely like LH for the commitment they have shown to MAN but will those who criticised EZY (and other LCC's) for pinching the incumbent full service carriers clientele be complaining in the same vein? I think not. In actual fact, like EZY on MUC and CPH, growing the market on those routes I expect LH to do the same. Will be great to see more LH airbuses on the ground and hopefully FRA and MUC will return to mainline service too.

mainMAN · Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:19 pm

Quoting GT4EZY (Reply 27):
Like MAD you wait years for service then you get lots of it. lol. I genuinely like LH for the commitment they have shown to MAN but will those who criticised EZY (and other LCC's) for pinching the incumbent full service carriers clientele be complaining in the same vein? I think not. In actual fact, like EZY on MUC and CPH, growing the market on those routes I expect LH to do the same. Will be great to see more LH airbuses on the ground and hopefully FRA and MUC will return to mainline service too.

Hear, hear.....especially the last bit about FRA and MUC returning to mainline service (although In know it makes little difference!)

Unfortunately a 0700 departure from BER is of little use to lazy crap-in-the-morning mainMAN, so Easyjet can rest easy for the time being.

planejamie · Wed Nov 09, 2011 9:51 pm

Quoting LuftyMatt (Reply 14):
I've heard that DL may move to T3 as well. T3 can take wide-bodies so that won't be a problem

Is that gate 44 on the end? Terminal 3 does seem a bit tight, but I'll take your word for it!

Quoting spud757 (Reply 17):
Landside connection between the two was possible until the section in T3 became security and T1 airside grew bigger. Airside connections could be improved though.

Is there a direct airside connection? I see the signs, but often wonder if there's an actual separate transfer security check or anything to stop you going between Terminal 1 and Terminal 3... I'm sure if they had one airside, it would be much easier!

Quoting Daleaholic (Reply 23):
SQ have looked into a move to T1 but the dark and miserable check in hall coupled with the complicated layout of the gates worked in favour of them staying put in T2.

Don't blame them, it's a windowless hell hole in Terminal 1... hate it with a passion! Terminal 2 is nice (except having to go upstairs and back down again), but my favourite is Terminal 3 - nice and small and easy to get through (I like the security area there, it's really bright)

mainMAN · Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:02 pm

Quoting planejamie (Reply 29):
Don't blame them, it's a windowless hell hole in Terminal 1... hate it with a passion!

T1 is perhaps the best terminal once you get through security. I reckon the next major infrastructural project MAN undertakea will be a complete rebuild of T1, including the car park. And when they do so, hopefully they may see the error of their ways, and re-install one of those amazing chandeliers! (anybody over about 30 knows what I mean!)

eurowings · Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:07 pm

Quoting GT4EZY (Reply 27):
Will be great to see more LH airbuses on the ground and hopefully FRA and MUC will return to mainline service too.

FRA and MUC are mainline services officially, although of course they are currently partly operated by BD. CityLine has been known to cover MUC with Embraer 190s.

LH is committed to MAN and I believe that the sale of BD will increase their presence. LH mainline will operate FRA, MUC and BER, with LH Regional to STR (CItyLine), HAM and DUS (eurowings). They must be approaching the daily frequencies of BA with these services!

planejamie · Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:09 pm

Quoting mainMAN (Reply 30):
T1 is perhaps the best terminal once you get through security. I reckon the next major infrastructural project MAN undertakea will be a complete rebuild of T1, including the car park. And when they do so, hopefully they may see the error of their ways, and re-install one of those amazing chandeliers! (anybody over about 30 knows what I mean!)

I agree that there's a lot of food choice and duty free choices and a lot of seats and space to relax, but only 1 large window airside, an antique baggage system and a maze through arrivals and lack of any natural light landside annoys me, but aside from skylights, there's nothing they can do! It is at least modern now and feels clean and reasonably open too (apart from walking through the duty free shop to get through!).

David_itl · Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:10 pm

Quoting EuroWings (Reply 31):
They must be approaching the daily frequencies of BA with these services!

Think it's 15 for LH covering 6 destinations. BA 13 covering 2 airports in 1 city (adding Sun Air makes it 16 tops woth 3 airports, 2 cities)

Daleaholic · Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:55 pm

Quoting mainMAN (Reply 30):

The last I heard, the plan was to build... (don't quote me on this)... On top of C-Pier. So basically add another level directly on top of gates 22/23/24/25/26/27/28/29/31/32. This information is a bit old though so could be wrong.

As has been said, the terminal needs tearing down and rebuilding as a whole. It's stuck in the dark ages compared to other international airports. Also, there needs to be an airside link between all 3 terminals... I've seen many people miss their transfers because of the processes at MAN.

GT4EZY · Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:10 am

Quoting planejamie (Reply 29):
Is that gate 44 on the end? Terminal 3 does seem a bit tight, but I'll take your word for it!

Stands 49, 54 and 55 at least are able to take the 763 with 55 taking upto A330 and maybe larger. T3 has little problem handling widebodies and there is little real reason to think otherwise.

Quoting EuroWings (Reply 31):
FRA and MUC are mainline services officially, although of course they are currently partly operated by BD. CityLine has been known to cover MUC with Embraer 190s.

Yes, yes we know the in's and outs of it all but ultimately it's a BD tail sat on the apron not LH Mainline.

RyanairGuru · Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:54 am

Quoting mainMAN (Reply 30):
(anybody over about 30 knows what I mean!)

I'm 20 and I remember those. I was mortified when they got ripped out (when I was about 12/13 I think)

Quoting GT4EZY (Reply 35):
T3 has little problem handling widebodies and there is little real reason to think otherwise.

As with the T2 long-haul ops rotating between the charter operations leaving in the mornings and arriving at lunch-time, they same can be said for T3. DL could easily slip in between EZY leaving and returning.

Do AA still operate from T3?

boysteve · Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:08 am

Quoting planejamie (Reply 29):
Is that gate 44 on the end? Terminal 3 does seem a bit tight, but I'll take your word for it!

Don't forget at the same time of day we used to have a BA 763, AA 763 & BD332 all at T3 not so long back!

RyanairGuru · Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:19 am

Quoting boysteve (Reply 37):
BA 763, AA 763 & BD332 all at T3 not so long back!

two BD A330s...

And when AA did MIA that would be another 767 as well

8herveg · Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:31 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 38):
And when AA did MIA that would be another 767 as well

I wonder if MIA will ever come back? BA could code-share and maybe they could organise something with the cruise ships to increase the pax load?

BlueShamu330s · Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:50 am

All this worrying about 767s and A330s getting onto T3 stands is irrelevant; BA used to put their B744s through on the old BA118/119 to ISB, so anything smaller is hardly going to be a problem.

Rgds

RyanairGuru · Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:21 am

Quoting blueshamu330s (Reply 40):
BA used to put their B744s through on the old BA118/119 to ISB

I might be wrong but I thought ISB was dropped before the move to T3?

BlueShamu330s · Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:37 am

You're wrong!!

Rgds

filler

filler

RyanairGuru · Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:24 am

Quoting blueshamu330s (Reply 42):
You're wrong!!

Oh ok, do you know when the route was dropped?

BlueShamu330s · Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:59 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 43):

Oh ok, do you know when the route was dropped?

Sorry for the abrupt message prior; hate trying to type on my iPad !

Not sure when exactly the route was dropped, though I am sure someone will be able to chime in.

The Islamabad normally went on stand 44 or 55.

Rgds

lisbonbearuk · Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:18 pm

The route ceased in early 2001 and routed ISB-MAN-LGW

Was usually operated by a 744.

skipness1E · Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:23 pm

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 41):
I might be wrong but I thought ISB was dropped before the move to T3?

Used to park on Stand 44 which still has marking for the B744. Heavy stands are
55 up to A330
54 up to B763 (A330?)

49 up to B763
44 up to B744

http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadba...EG_AD_2_EGCC_2-2_en_2011-10-20.pdf

planejamie · Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:13 pm

Quoting Daleaholic (Reply 34):
The last I heard, the plan was to build... (don't quote me on this)... On top of C-Pier. So basically add another level directly on top of gates 22/23/24/25/26/27/28/29/31/32. This information is a bit old though so could be wrong.

As has been said, the terminal needs tearing down and rebuilding as a whole. It's stuck in the dark ages compared to other international airports. Also, there needs to be an airside link between all 3 terminals... I've seen many people miss their transfers because of the processes at MAN.

Agreed! But tearing it down and starting over would be a huge problem... sadly

Another totally random question: Does Terminal 1 have a domestic arrivals gate? What do the EI and Aer Arann flights do? and other domestic flights (e.g. Aurigny) do out of Terminal 1?

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 46):
Used to park on Stand 44 which still has marking for the B744. Heavy stands are
55 up to A330
54 up to B763 (A330?)

49 up to B763
44 up to B744

Ahhh, see they don't seem that big haha! I was thinking more of the length though (would have thought that an A330/747 would stick out a bit around 44 onto the taxiway). Also, I'm sure BA have used 777s occasionally from LHR/LGW when there's been either snow at LHR or 734s gone tech at LGW

skipness1E · Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:18 pm

Quoting planejamie (Reply 47):
Ahhh, see they don't seem that big haha! I was thinking more of the length though (would have thought that an A330/747 would stick out a bit around 44 onto the taxiway).

If you ever wonder why the airside road along the apron at T2 has a kink in it, it's because the building was put up when the B744 was the longest commercial airliner. Then along came the B777-300 and the even longer A340-600, and the road had to be moved.

As to Aurigny and Aer Lingus, they have the same situation as at LGW. Show your boarding card and you are ushered through international arrivals.

eurowings · Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:45 pm

Quoting planejamie (Reply 47):
Another totally random question: Does Terminal 1 have a domestic arrivals gate? What do the EI and Aer Arann flights do? and other domestic flights (e.g. Aurigny) do out of Terminal 1?

When I've arrived from the Republic of Ireland on EI and FR (when they operated from T1), there was a bus to the domestic/ROI arrivals door.

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