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flythere
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Hong Kong Airlines All-premium LON-HKG Service

Mon Nov 07, 2011 1:02 pm

Quote:

March 2012 marks the beginning of a new era of premium class air travel.

Hong Kong Airlines will be bringing its service focus, expertise and style to its new route between London and Hong Kong.

A dedicated fleet of brand new Airbus A330-200s will be introduced. Each of these ultra-modern aircraft will feature two premium cabins: ‘Club Premier’ and ‘Club Classic’.

Both Clubs have been created to deliver Hong Kong Airlines' acclaimed signature service.

Tickets go on sale in December 2011.

http://www.hongkongairlinesclub.co.uk/

Although it is in two-class config, they would be much superior than the normal Y-class in terms of hard product and services. Would like to see later on how these 1-2-1 and 2-2-2 configured J seats would be like!
 
LondonCity
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines All-premium LON-HKG Service

Mon Nov 07, 2011 1:08 pm

I doubt if the J class seats will be fully flat beds. More likely they'll be angled lie-flat seating as used by Air AsiaX.
 
BlueShamu330s
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines All-premium LON-HKG Service

Mon Nov 07, 2011 1:16 pm

Quoting LondonCity (Reply 1):
I doubt if the J class seats will be fully flat beds. More likely they'll be angled lie-flat seating as used by Air AsiaX.
Club Premier will feature luxury suites in a 1-2-1 configuration which convert from a superbly comfortable seat to a fully flat bed.

Club Classic will feature extra wide and supportive cradle recliner seats in a very spacious 2-2-2 configuration.

http://www.hongkongairlinesclub.co.uk/seating_plan.html

Rgds
Flying around India
 
LondonCity
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines All-premium LON-HKG Service

Mon Nov 07, 2011 1:24 pm

Thanks for the info. HK Airlines seems to be the first carrier with two levels of J class comfort. It will appeal to the many 1,000s of expats. wealthy tourists and bosses of SMEs (small, medium-sized enterprises) who patronise the route.
 
koruman
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines All-premium LON-HKG Service

Mon Nov 07, 2011 2:00 pm

They may not be the first on the route with two Business quality cabins, depending upon whether Air NZ introduce their Premium Economy SpaceSeat, which is 2-2-2 in a wider cabin....

 
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readytotaxi
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines All-premium LON-HKG Service

Mon Nov 07, 2011 2:08 pm

Any ideas as to where they are going to pitch the seat price?
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B747-4U3
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines All-premium LON-HKG Service

Mon Nov 07, 2011 2:18 pm

Quoting LondonCity (Reply 1):
I doubt if the J class seats will be fully flat beds. More likely they'll be angled lie-flat seating as used by Air AsiaX.

From the seat map it looks like similar ones to those used by ANA, Etihad and Emirates A380 - the staggered lie-flat sort with every seat having direct aisle access. Looks nice.

It's interesting that their Club Classic seems very much pitched as the old style business class cradle seats rather than a premium economy product (which are normally 2-3-2 on the A330/340).
 
trb10
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines All-premium LON-HKG Service

Mon Nov 07, 2011 2:29 pm

Anyone remember the failed premium airlines that went from London to New York? What's the betting this one doesn't hang around either.....
 
LondonCity
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines All-premium LON-HKG Service

Mon Nov 07, 2011 2:47 pm

Quoting readytotaxi (Reply 5):
Any ideas as to where they are going to pitch the seat price?

HK Airlines will have to undercut the non-stop carriers. Maybe they'll price in line with what the likes of EK/QR/EY charge for indirect services.

Quoting B747-4U3 (Reply 6):
It's interesting that their Club Classic seems very much pitched as the old style business class cradle seats rather than a premium economy product (which are normally 2-3-2 on the A330/340).

In which case it would be like the type of seating which Scoot is fitting for its premium customers.

Quoting trb10 (Reply 7):

Anyone remember the failed premium airlines that went from London to New York? What's the betting this one doesn't hang around either.....

Difficult to say because the two routes are different. Eos/Maxjet used less convenient London airports and they faced stiffer competiton from the number of alternatives which were available.
 
B747-4U3
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines All-premium LON-HKG Service

Mon Nov 07, 2011 2:58 pm

Quoting LondonCity (Reply 8):
Quoting trb10 (Reply 7):

Anyone remember the failed premium airlines that went from London to New York? What's the betting this one doesn't hang around either.....

Difficult to say because the two routes are different. Eos/Maxjet used less convenient London airports and they faced stiffer competiton from the number of alternatives which were available.

I believe that it has been said on here in a previous post that they have had to go for a premium configuration because they are limited by the number of seats they can offer - I think it might have something to do with the ownership structure of the airline. If this gets resolved then they would revert to a normal set-up.

In any case HK Airlines is slightly different from those premium carriers in Europe because HK Airlines has feed - albeit limited - at Hong Kong which may help to support the flight. I personally think that they are going to find competing tough.
 
UAL777UK
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines All-premium LON-HKG Service

Mon Nov 07, 2011 3:08 pm

Quoting trb10 (Reply 7):
Anyone remember the failed premium airlines that went from London to New York? What's the betting this one doesn't hang around either.....

Yeah but HK is owned by the HNA Group and I suspect they have a few more pennies floating around in the bank account than Eos and Maxjet did.

That said its a ballsy route to start with lots of competition on it. Time will tell how it goes but if they offer a good product, with competitive fares they might just pull it off.
 
mutu
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines All-premium LON-HKG Service

Mon Nov 07, 2011 3:35 pm

Quoting LondonCity (Reply 3):
Thanks for the info. HK Airlines seems to be the first carrier with two levels of J class comfort

Well Openskies of course has had 2 levels of J (flat bed and cradle recline) TATL for some considerable time. SO I guess that sets a precedent but on a different route
 
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readytotaxi
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines All-premium LON-HKG Service

Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:52 pm

Quoting LondonCity (Reply 8):
HK Airlines will have to undercut the non-stop carriers. Maybe they'll price in line with what the likes of EK/QR/EY charge for indirect services.

A quick look around in March gives an avg price of £2500 for a Business Class return with one stop, might they be tempted to offer £2000 for a starter, I would take some of that.  
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kaitak
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines All-premium LON-HKG Service

Mon Nov 07, 2011 5:12 pm

It will be interesting to see if this will coax CX to bring its new J Class service to London sooner than planned?

This new service will certainly help to put the cat among the pigeons.

Incidentally, anyone know when VS's new J Class service is being introduced; I heard it was supposed to be sometime next year?
 
B747-4U3
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines All-premium LON-HKG Service

Mon Nov 07, 2011 5:24 pm

Quoting readytotaxi (Reply 12):
Quoting LondonCity (Reply 8):
HK Airlines will have to undercut the non-stop carriers. Maybe they'll price in line with what the likes of EK/QR/EY charge for indirect services.

A quick look around in March gives an avg price of £2500 for a Business Class return with one stop, might they be tempted to offer £2000 for a starter, I would take some of that.  

I've noticed that flights from London to South East Asia - depending on the time of year - can be had for £1,500 - £1,600 in Business Class via the Middle East. HK is a similar flight time, so I would imagine that HK Airlines could if desperate start fares even lower than £2000. I'd definitely have some of that!
 
Qantas744er
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines All-premium LON-HKG Service

Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:10 pm

I wonder if they will attempt to leave on taxiway Alpha instead of 7L on the inaugural flight just like their B738 crew attempted to. Jokes aside, I will always choose CX over this "airline" simply because of who is sitting in the cockpit.
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kaitak
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines All-premium LON-HKG Service

Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:37 pm

Quoting Qantas744ER (Reply 15):
I wonder if they will attempt to leave on taxiway Alpha instead of 7L on the inaugural flight just like their B738 crew attempted to. Jokes aside, I will always choose CX over this "airline" simply because of who is sitting in the cockpit.

Well, Finnair nearly did this as well, so I would not be quick to throw stones; any airline can make a mistake. That said, I do agree that CX has top class flight crews.
 
CX Flyboy
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines All-premium LON-HKG Service

Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:20 pm

Quoting kaitak (Reply 16):
Quoting Qantas744ER (Reply 15):
I wonder if they will attempt to leave on taxiway Alpha instead of 7L on the inaugural flight just like their B738 crew attempted to. Jokes aside, I will always choose CX over this "airline" simply because of who is sitting in the cockpit.

Well, Finnair nearly did this as well, so I would not be quick to throw stones; any airline can make a mistake. That said, I do agree that CX has top class flight crews.

One or two mistakes is excusable. Mistake after mistake after mistake is not. I think I'll stick with CX
 
ORDJOE
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines All-premium LON-HKG Service

Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:24 am

I think this will be a total failure, anyone who is going to cough up the money for this are probably CX loyalists (I somehow imagine CX has the vast majority of corporate contracts for HK firms). I picture HK airlines offering a decent business class, but I do not see them offering something on par to CX J or not even close to CX F
 
jetblast
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines All-premium LON-HKG Service

Tue Nov 08, 2011 5:01 am

Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 17):

We never would have been able to tell your bias from your username...
Speedbird Concorde One
 
BMI727
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines All-premium LON-HKG Service

Tue Nov 08, 2011 5:09 am

Quoting trb10 (Reply 7):

Anyone remember the failed premium airlines that went from London to New York? What's the betting this one doesn't hang around either.....

I think they have a chance to make it work since they have their own and Hainan's frequent flier base to work from. That is why OpenSkies has survived (not thrived, but survived) when others have failed. All premium services need the customer base and frequent flier strength of a larger carrier to work.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
mdavies06
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines All-premium LON-HKG Service

Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:15 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 20):
Quoting trb10 (Reply 7):

Anyone remember the failed premium airlines that went from London to New York? What's the betting this one doesn't hang around either.....

I think they have a chance to make it work since they have their own and Hainan's frequent flier base to work from. That is why OpenSkies has survived (not thrived, but survived) when others have failed. All premium services need the customer base and frequent flier strength of a larger carrier to work.

I hope you are right, but their corporate client base in Hong Kong is still emerging when compared to CX and others. Obviously they need to grow their UK client base from nothing which is another issue as well. Adding the fact that they (I read somewhere) plan to use LGW (which is a disadvantage), with less frequency (compared to BA and CX). All in all, they have to do some degree of discounting. Also, one factor which need to consider is cargo. BA and CX will be able to carry a bit of cargo on both legs on a normal flight depending on the equipment. Would they be able to lift any cargo using an A332? Not sure.
 
nclmedic
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines All-premium LON-HKG Service

Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:41 am

Quoting koruman (Reply 4):
They may not be the first on the route with two Business quality cabins, depending upon whether Air NZ introduce their Premium Economy SpaceSeat, which is 2-2-2 in a wider cabin....

From reports of people who've flown on the new PE for NZ, it's not all the comfortable and has fairly limited recline?
 
qf002
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines All-premium LON-HKG Service

Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:37 am

Quoting nclmedic (Reply 22):
Quoting koruman (Reply 4):
They may not be the first on the route with two Business quality cabins, depending upon whether Air NZ introduce their Premium Economy SpaceSeat, which is 2-2-2 in a wider cabin....

From reports of people who've flown on the new PE for NZ, it's not all the comfortable and has fairly limited recline?

It's a great product, but at the end of the day the hard product is no better than any other W product out there (QF, new BA, VS, upcoming CX etc). They have recently added legroom by removing a row, which apparently makes a big difference.
 
airbazar
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines All-premium LON-HKG Service

Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:12 pm

Quoting LondonCity (Reply 3):
Thanks for the info. HK Airlines seems to be the first carrier with two levels of J class comfort

Not really. SQ's initial A345 routes to LAX and EWR had 2 levels of J class. It was only later that they switched to the current single class config althought I believe that they actually called it business class and premium economy. But it was one heck of a premium economy  
Quoting trb10 (Reply 7):
Anyone remember the failed premium airlines that went from London to New York? What's the betting this one doesn't hang around either.....
Quoting ordjoe (Reply 18):
I think this will be a total failure, anyone who is going to cough up the money for this are probably CX loyalists (I somehow imagine CX has the vast majority of corporate contracts for HK firms).

Honk Kong has a lot of rich people who are not on corporate contracts. HK Airlines is also a much more established carrier than EOS and Max Jet, with its own customer base. I'm not saying this will be a success but they will have a better chance than the LON-NYC attempts.
 
qf002
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines All-premium LON-HKG Service

Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:49 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 24):
But it was one heck of a premium economy

It was called Executive Economy, had less legroom than ALL of today's W products (35-37" IIRC), had a very strange legrest and was the standard W 2-3-2... It was a decent product, but I think today's products would trump it in most ways.
 
TreeHillRavens
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines All-premium LON-HKG Service

Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:37 pm

Quoting B747-4U3 (Reply 6):
From the seat map it looks like similar ones to those used by ANA, Etihad and Emirates A380 - the staggered lie-flat sort with every seat having direct aisle access. Looks nice.

Add Asiana Airlines to the list too.

Quoting trb10 (Reply 7):
Anyone remember the failed premium airlines that went from London to New York? What's the betting this one doesn't hang around either.....

It has Hainan Airlines behind it.

Quoting nclmedic (Reply 22):
From reports of people who've flown on the new PE for NZ, it's not all the comfortable and has fairly limited recline?

I've read the same. I hear it also has limited legroom...

Quoting airbazar (Reply 24):
Not really. SQ's initial A345 routes to LAX and EWR had 2 levels of J class.
Quoting qf002 (Reply 25):
It was called Executive Economy, had less legroom than ALL of today's W products (35-37" IIRC), had a very strange legrest and was the standard W 2-3-2... It was a decent product, but I think today's products would trump it in most ways.

It was just a regular Premium Economy Product which they marketed as Executive Economy featuring 37" of seat pitch in 2-3-2.
 
BOACCunard
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines All-premium LON-HKG Service

Sat Nov 12, 2011 9:00 pm

Quoting LondonCity (Reply 3):
HK Airlines seems to be the first carrier with two levels of J class comfort.

US uses the cabin from its short-lived international F product on the A333 this way. I think SK also had something like this on the A333 and A343 in their original configuration (as well as W and Y cabins).

Of course as mentioned above the closest analogue is probably EC.
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Pacific
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines All-premium LON-HKG Service

Sun Nov 13, 2011 1:56 am

Quoting mdavies06 (Reply 21):
Would they be able to lift any cargo using an A332?

The A330-200HGW can lift 25 tonnes on that route, according to the payload-range chart and this is already being slightly conservative! With just 116 pax, passenger+luggage payload will be extremely low. Let's say 16t, including all the food and wine and that leaves 9 tons for freight.

[Edited 2011-11-12 17:57:52]
 
AngMoh
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RE: Hong Kong Airlines All-premium LON-HKG Service

Sun Nov 13, 2011 2:36 am

Quoting TreeHillRavens (Reply 26):
It was just a regular Premium Economy Product which they marketed as Executive Economy featuring 37" of seat pitch in 2-3-2.

It was premium economy, but having flown it as well as some older business class products on airlines like TG at that time, it was very good, and most of all pricing was fantastic. 37" pitch, 20"+ seat with (I believe it was 21.5"), seat back reclining much more than a standard Y seat to give close to a flat inclined seat, upgrade IFE with almost 10" display (Y was 6" at that time). The cost of executive economy seat was originally full fare (non discounted) economy +SGD200, and later it was reduced to the standard full fare economy fare (no discounts available). In effect, if you flew for business reasons on a fully flexible fare, it would cost the same but would provide baby business class comfort. Of course, most people don't book full fare tickets so it seems expensive for them. I have not seen any premium economy which came close this since.
I have flown this on SIN-EWR and SIN-LAX and 19 hours SIN-EWR was much much better than flying Y in an A380 coming January via SIN-FRA-JFK (don't forget I flew them between 2004 and 2006).
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