Air France Long Haul A319's

ordluvr · Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:20 am

I am just curious as to where Air France sends their special dedicated services A319's
I was browsing on AF's website and came across the seat-map for the A319 dedicate... with only 79 seats on it! Am I correct in assuming that these are used on long-haul routes?
http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Air...rance/Air_France_Airbus_A319_C.php
In addition Qatar AIrways has a business class pitch of 60" which is excessive even for a five star airline
http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Qat...ways/Qatar_Airways_Airbus_A319.php

Can anyone shed light on these?

connies4ever · Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:33 am

I think in the case of AF, the Dedicate services on A319s are aimed mostly at the oil patch in West Africa andCha the Middle East. Coming to mind are Port Harcourt in Nigeria, N'Djamena in Chad in West Africa, and Riyadh & Jeddah in Saudi Arabia. Routes need to have significant J demand, but not enough to warrant a widebody.

airbazar · Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:56 am

I still wouldn't call any of the routes long haul. Those are all medium-haul routes at most.

kgaiflyer · Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:03 am

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 1):
I think in the case of AF, the Dedicate services on A319s are aimed mostly at the oil patch in West Africa andCha the Middle East. Coming to mind are Port Harcourt in Nigeria, N'Djamena in Chad in West Africa, and Riyadh & Jeddah in Saudi Arabia. Routes need to have significant J demand, but not enough to warrant a widebody.

And also currently SSG in Equatorial Guinea

mpsrent · Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:09 am

Would the Air Canada St. Johns Nld to London Heathrow route be viewed as medium or long haul?

irshava · Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:17 am

My friend once told me that they send (or used to send ((not sure))) them to Saudi....

BMIFlyer · Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:17 am

Quoting mpsrent (Reply 4):

Medium

When I flew that route it only took us 5 hours.

Val747 · Tue Nov 08, 2011 7:58 am

These aircraft are not meant for long haul flights, but for specific flights with high yield demand.
Currently, these aircrafts fly to :

- Malabo
- N'Djamena
- Bata (via Malabo)
- Port Gentil

It's an A330 that fly to Jed and Ruh.

TGV · Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:14 am

Quoting Val747 (Reply 7):
It's an A330 that fly to Jed and Ruh.

But it was a 319 some years ago. I flew them regularly to RUH in 2008.

connies4ever · Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:26 am

Quoting mpsrent (Reply 4):
Would the Air Canada St. Johns Nld to London Heathrow route be viewed as medium or long haul?

Quoting BMIFlyer (Reply 6):
Medium

When I flew that route it only took us 5 hours.

5 hours would be westbound, I'm thinking. The route is short enough that ETOPS certification is not required.

Tristarsteve · Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:23 am

Quoting ordluvr (Thread starter):
In addition Qatar AIrways has a business class pitch of 60" which is excessive even for a five star airline

These are long haul lie flat business seats.
QR uses its A319 on 6 hour sectors.

warren747sp · Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:59 pm

I thought they are using all A318s for such type of flights?

ordluvr · Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:11 pm

Thanks for the help!
Just another random question what is the longest route operated by a small ariliner-b737/a320?

kgaiflyer · Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:28 pm

Quoting Val747 (Reply 7):
Bata (via Malabo)

Bata ????

This must be very new service. As I recall, BSG only has daylight operations and has a short runway to boot. No doubt the plane returns to SSG in order to overnight the crew.

Amazing where people will go for petroleum exploration.

SKAirbus · Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:30 pm

Quoting ordluvr (Reply 12):
Just another random question what is the longest route operated by a small ariliner-b737/a320?

Well Privatair operates A319s and 737s on behalf of airlines such as LH and KLM over the atlantic from AMS and FRA. I think they also operate them to DXB. But these are business jet type aircraft with extra fuel capacity.

I imagine one contender for the longest 737 route would be Norwegian's Oslo to Dubai flight... I think it is nonstop.

DutchBoeing · Tue Nov 08, 2011 3:54 pm

Surely AMS-IAH on the Privatair B737 for KLM is longer than OSL-DXB?

Yes it is!

From To Initial
Heading Distance
AMS IAH 5012 mi
OSL DXB 3194 mi
mi

[Edited 2011-11-08 07:55:32]

[Edited 2011-11-08 07:56:37]

SASDC8 · Tue Nov 08, 2011 5:08 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 14):
I imagine one contender for the longest 737 route would be Norwegian's Oslo to Dubai flight... I think it is nonstop.

And the usually make a stop for fuel on the way back.

YULWinterSkies · Tue Nov 08, 2011 5:19 pm

Quoting warren747sp (Reply 11):
I thought they are using all A318s for such type of flights?

You must be confusing with BA, who indeed uses J -only A318s on long-haul (-ish) flights on LCY-JFK. The AF A318s are strictly intra-European, while these Dedicate aircraft are strictly A319s.

planejamie · Tue Nov 08, 2011 7:14 pm

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 1):
Riyadh & Jeddah in Saudi Arabia

Sadly not anymore, I think it's now a reduced frequency A330-200 service (I presume the cargo more than anything) - the A319ER/LR flights went out many times without baggage if we had a bad headwind

Quoting irshava (Reply 5):
My friend once told me that they send (or used to send ((not sure))) them to Saudi....

That was me... haha

Quoting TGV (Reply 8):
But it was a 319 some years ago. I flew them regularly to RUH in 2008.

Sounds right, I used to fly with AF MAN-CDG-RUH as it both the MAN and RUH flights went out of the same terminal at CDG (2F when 2E was still being rebuilt, then eventually 2E). Wasn't a bad connection for me and at the time, they were pretty cheap (plus my dad had a lot of miles doing trips in Business with them). The only problem was no personal IFE in Economy (but drop down screens) and only Digiplayers in Business. However, every seat had a power port and the legroom was better than other carriers (plus it was much quieter on board with fewer people). I quite liked the flights, before I started flying BD on RUH-LHR-MAN and eventually BA when the prices went up and I got annoyed with BD...

phllax · Tue Nov 08, 2011 7:14 pm

Quoting DutchBoeing (Reply 15):
Surely AMS-IAH on the Privatair B737 for KLM is longer than OSL-DXB?

How about Copa's Panama City - Buenos Aires flights?

Viscount724 · Tue Nov 08, 2011 7:29 pm

Surely AMS-IAH on the Privatair B737 for KLM is longer than OSL-DXB?

The PrivatAir BBJ operation for KLM on AMS-IAH ended a week ago. It's now operated by KL's own A330-200. They continue to operate the ZRH-EWR route for LX but that service ends next March when it will be replaced by an LX A330-300.

[Edited 2011-11-08 12:24:01]

atct · Tue Nov 08, 2011 7:31 pm

To be picky, I wouldnt count IAH-AMS as the longest as A. It no longer exists and B. it was a BBJ.

I would say Copa PTY-EZE as its 3313 miles.

connies4ever · Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:37 pm

Quoting phllax (Reply 19):
How about Copa's Panama City - Buenos Aires flights?

Was going to mention that one. Actually, I think the flight is (or was) LAX-PTY-EZE.

Also, a few years back, Air Pacific operated NAN-HNL-YVR I think 2x weekly with a 73G. Long way over water in a 73G.

Viscount724 · Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:45 pm

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 22):
Also, a few years back, Air Pacific operated NAN-HNL-YVR I think 2x weekly with a 73G. Long way over water in a 73G.

I think it's always been a 738, not a 73G, and NAN-HNL-NAN still operates once a week. The HNL-YVR sector was dropped in 2007.

Doona · Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:02 pm

Quoting ordluvr (Reply 12):
Just another random question what is the longest route operated by a small ariliner-b737/a320?

As I remember, United Airways (not UAL) of Bangladesh started flying to LGW with an MD-83 (!) in 2009. Not non-stop, naturally, but I'm assuming this routing takes the cake as far as direct flights on narrowbodies go (discounting 757s, 707s etc). I believe they got hold of an A310 which I assume has since replaced the MD, but alas, I do not know.

Cheers
Mats

Viscount724 · Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:07 pm

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 22):
Quoting phllax (Reply 19):
How about Copa's Panama City - Buenos Aires flights?

Was going to mention that one. Actually, I think the flight is (or was) LAX-PTY-EZE.

Don't think CM traffic rights would permit a LAX-PTY-EZE flight with the same flight number. It's a connection in schedules.

I think their longest nonstop is PTY-MVD which at 2941 nm is slightly further than PTY-EZE (2879 nm). EZE uses the 738 and MVD the 73G.

LJ · Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:25 pm

Quoting Val747 (Reply 7):
- Bata (via Malabo)
- Port Gentil

As far as I know AF still doesn't have traffic rights to Bata (though it does appear in the Skyteam timetable). If you try booking a flight you'll notice that it won't list any flight. Same applies to Port Gentil (you can't even select this destination online). Bata is becoming a real nightmare for AF. Bata has been canceled/postponed several times already.

roseflyer · Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:52 pm

Longest I believe is ANA NRT-BOM. It's over 4,000nm with the routing it takes to avoid the Himalayas. The NRT-BOM sector is typically over 10 hours. They are in a similar configuration to AF and were delivered with only 48 seats.

Viscount724 · Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:06 pm

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 27):
Longest I believe is ANA NRT-BOM. It's over 4,000nm with the routing it takes to avoid the Himalayas. The NRT-BOM sector is typically over 10 hours. They are in a similar configuration to AF and were delivered with only 48 seats.

However that's a 737-700ER, a close relative of the BBJ with extra fuel tanks and other structural differences of the BBJ. That route wouldn't be possible on a standard 73G.
http://www.boeing.com/commercial/737family/737-700ER/facts.html

connies4ever · Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:50 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 25):
Don't think CM traffic rights would permit a LAX-PTY-EZE flight with the same flight number. It's a connection in schedules.

There was a profile of COPA in "Airways" mag a couple of years ago that mentioned the LAX-PTY-EXE service specifically.

FlySSC · Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:20 am

Back to the Topic ...

Air France used to operate its A319ER "Dedicate" on :

CDG-DOH-CDG
CDG-KWI-CDG
CDG-PNR-CDG
CDG-SSG-CDG
CDG-NDJ-CDG
CDG-NKC-CDG
CDG-PHC-CDG
CDG-RUH-CDG
CDG-JED-CDG.

DOH & KWI are not opertaed by AF anymore.
PNR is now operated with an A332
NKC is now operated with an A332 as an enroute stop to CKY.
PHC is now daily operated with a B77W (CDG-LOS-PHC)
RUH is operatd with an A332 since 2010
JED is operated with an A332 as an en route stop to JID (since 2010).

SSG & NDJ are the last two destinations still operated as "Dedicate" A319ER services.
BSG (Bata) was supposed to open last September but was delayed again by the Guinean Authorities ...
POG (Port Gentil, Gabon) is annouced for 2012 but nothing official yet.
AF operated also CDG-AUH-CDG during a month with theA319ER (from Sept 5th to Oct.5th) because of aircraft shortage (A332).

Air France operated up to 6 A319LR "Dedicate". 2 were retired from service recently (F-GRXG (stored) and F-GRXI (now with Sibir Airlines).

SKAirbus · Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:25 am

Quoting SASDC8 (Reply 16):
And the usually make a stop for fuel on the way back.

Where does it normally refuel?

SKAirbus · Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:28 am

Quoting DutchBoeing (Reply 15):
Surely AMS-IAH on the Privatair B737 for KLM is longer than OSL-DXB?

You can't really compare the two. Privatair operate BBJs, which are designed for medium/long haul travel. The 737-800 which operates from OSL-DXB is a standard aircraft and even though it may need to stop for fuel on the return leg, it is pretty impressive that it has the legs to make it outbound from OSL.

According to the DY website the scheduled flight time is 7 hours.

AirGAbon · Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:49 pm

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 30):
Air France used to operate its A319ER "Dedicate" on :

CDG-DOH-CDG
CDG-KWI-CDG
CDG-PNR-CDG
CDG-SSG-CDG
CDG-NDJ-CDG
CDG-NKC-CDG
CDG-PHC-CDG
CDG-RUH-CDG
CDG-JED-CDG

And also in the past Tashkent (TAS): CDG-TAS-CDG with a A319ER Dedicate.

Plus the strange idea AF had to operate a CDG-Kiev-Atyrau (Kazakhstan) with a Regional Airlines F100 !!! But AF never received the kazakh traffic rights.

Pihero · Wed Nov 09, 2011 3:09 pm

Quoting Val747 (Reply 7):
These aircraft are not meant for long haul flights, but for specific flights with high yield demand

A CDG-PNR of some seven and a half hours is plenty long enough for a long haul definition in my book...

Quoting AirGabon (Reply 33):
And also in the past Tashkent (TAS): CDG-TAS-CDG with a A319ER Dedicate.

Yes and it was great fun at some 6:30 hrs and a few alternate problems.