The much awaited 2011 Dubai Air Show, now in its 22nd year, is upon us and we have decided it would be appropriate to run a two main threads on the major LoI / MoU / Order announcements.

You can find the official Dubai Airshow details at the following link:

Dubai Airshow 2011

This thread is for Airbus and EADS announcements, below are links to the Airbus Homepage, Press Centre and EADS Site;

Airbus.com
Airbus Press Centre
EADS Site

Some news may break faster than available on their website and you can refer to Airbus and EADSlive if you use that service by checking #DXB11

We ask that you refer to the following link for Boeing related news from the show;

Dubai Air Show 2011 Boeing Orders (by moderators Nov 12 2011 in Civil Aviation)

Additionally, we realise that many Military Contracts may be announced. We ask that those be posted for discussion in our Military Aviation & Space Forum

The purpose of these threads is to keep a daily tabulation on any announcements made and to keep separate each companies announcements. Though we understand there will be split orders, having the official threads should make it a lot easier to track orders for each OEM and make for a good reference for the future of the site.

We do realise that there will / may be major orders announced given recent speculation and some media reports. Therefore, if an order is announced and listed here, by a New A380 / 747-8 Operator, a Major A350 / B787 commitment or by a carrier of regional or strategic importance, it should be entitled to it's own separate thread. We ask that order be posted here with a link to the relevant thread and a link back to this thread, that way a free and open discussion can be had on these orders without overwhelming the official threads.

In relation to Regional and other orders such as ATR, Bombardier, Embraer, Sukhoi, Mitsubishi and COMAC etc or any major new developments of new frames or further news of R&D in existing projects please feel free to go ahead and post a thread as normal, or in an existing thread.

We suggest that though these orders can be posted as normal that an update also be posted in the ATR, BBD, EMB, Etc Orders 2011 Take 2 thread too.

There is no Engine order thread being created and any such announcements are open to posting for discussion as usual.

Some news may well be worth posting for discussion in our Tech / Ops Forum

Going into the Airshow Airbus, as of the end of October per their O&D spreadsheet had booked year to date orders and cancellations as follows;

Totals
Gross 1372
Cancellations 141
Net 1231

Further updates are available in the Airbus And Boeing 2011 Orders Part 2thread.

Any enquiries please direct to [email protected] on behalf of the Moderating Crew we thank you for your assistance. The Dubai Airshow is a major event for aviation, let's make it a good one for the forum too.


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Photo © Konstantin von Wedelstaedt


[Edited 2011-11-12 07:30:38]

[Edited 2011-11-12 07:31:36]

[Edited 2011-11-12 07:50:34]

Airbus is having a great year! Especially with the A320 neo.

Yes, they have had a great year. I am not sure if 2011 will not be a record breaker for them. It will be exciting to see what orders they bag at the airshow.

Would be great to see a new customer for the A380. Thats probably what I hope most for on this airshow.

It looks like it might be Boeings' show with the expected 777 orders but I hope Airbus can get some A380 orders in the bag. Another 100 would be nice (   ) but I think we'll have to settle for 5 A380s from Qatar.

Airbus has the order race well and truly won this year and more than reached their sales targets so they might not be pushing all out for the final orders this year and instead get a nice start on the next year.

I think it would be nice to have a third thread for orders who are NOT Airbus or Boeing. How about it?
I hope moderators will do it.....

The A380's order book could still sell many planes, many of the world's largest airlines have not ever ordered the plane. Cathay Pacific, ANA and JAL are just 3 that could and probably will order it some day. No airline in South America, North America or Africa has ordered it either. IN Africa the obvious airline to order it is SAA, it will need it one day for the LHR flights it has and maybe for other routes when the A340-600 proves too small. In the Americas a case could be made for Brazil needing the A380 for its GRU international gateway, but poor GRU infrastructure and LATAM current fleet policy seems to kill that possibility.

While no North American airline seems to be in the A380 market, the competitiion and need to replace 744's may change that in 10 years.

A lot of airlines will probably be spurred on to order or at least revise their requirement for A380s in the light of favourable reviews of the aircraft.

No airline seems to have regretted buying them and they appear to be performing above expectations.

It will be interesting to see what happens.

I know that I'm going to sound like a penis for saying this, but please could we keep discussion limited to actual orders and announcements. I don't want to spend the rest of the week trawling through hundreds of posts of inane babble straining my eyes for the occasional press release!

Much appreciated!

Not sure what's going on, but QR has more than usual booking for press conferences.

http://www.dubaiairshow.aero/press/press-conferences

Will they be having so many announcements to make?

Quoting lollomz (Reply 5): I think it would be nice to have a third thread for orders who are NOT Airbus or Boeing. How about it? I hope moderators will do it.....

Too encourage more discussions we've left all other OEM orders open for members to post. Should someone like to start one which covers them they can feel free to do so.

Quoting Babybus (Reply 7):

Quoting Centre (Reply 9): Not sure what's going on, but QR has more than usual booking for press conferences.

Not sure if there's any significance in those bookings being back to back with Airbus ones.

Regards
MH

Whats the A320NEO order compared to the B737MAX ones.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 12): Whats the A320NEO order compared to the B737MAX ones.

A320neo is north of 1000 orders (1029 per Wiki).

737MAX is now north of 700 commitments (per Boeing).

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 12): Whats the A320NEO order compared to the B737MAX ones.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 13): A320neo is north of 1000 orders (1029 per Wiki). 737MAX is now north of 700 commitments (per Boeing).

LOL. Stitch my man. Answer his question.
 

The exact number are:
NEO 1138 vs MAX 0

But ask again in say ... 6 months and there will surely be more balance!

Firm + MOUs, the NEO currently stands at 1245.

Quoting flood (Reply 15): Firm + MOUs, the NEO currently stands at 1245.

Add 50 for QR IF they will order them!

Quoting flood (Reply 15): Firm + MOUs, the NEO currently stands at 1245.

Hmmm?
  

I am getting 1138 firm orders and 329 commitments.
(Total of 1467)

is FEDEX going to anounce any orders today on their press conference?

replacing MD11 with 77F or A33F

Quoting sydaircargo (Reply 18): is FEDEX going to anounce any orders today on their press conference? replacing MD11 with 77F or A33F

If they are, I think it would be for the 767-400F, which they have been in talks to Boeing about for quite some time. The A330F was not even considered as they already have 77F's.

Quoting sydaircargo (Reply 18): is FEDEX going to anounce any orders today on their press conference? replacing MD11 with 77F or A33F

I think they said they were going to delay that pending what happens with the economy.

Quoting Chiad (Reply 17): I am getting 1138 firm orders and 329 commitments.

I'm seeing 1138 firm as well but where do you get the 329 commitments?

Who did I miss?

Avianca: 33
Transaero: 8
ALAFCO: 30
ALC: 36
Total: 107

Quoting fpetrutiu (Reply 19): If they are, I think it would be for the 767-400F

Not according to Leeham:

"Although some months ago Jon Ostrower broke the story that FDX was talking with Boeing about the 767-400, we learned at ISTAT Boeing said “no.” It is focused on the KC-46A, 767-derived tanker and doesn’t want to take on a program that would divert resources from this effort."
http://leehamnews.wordpress.com/tag/fedex/

I would also refer to above article with regards to their interest in the A330.

Quoting flood (Reply 21): I'm seeing 1138 firm as well but where do you get the 329 commitments? Who did I miss?

It seems that we both might has missed something.
Here is my list:

AirAsia - 100
Air Lease Corporation - 20 A320, 16 A321
ALAFCO - 30
American Airlines - 130 A320oeo - not all will be new as coming from new and existing leasing co orders.
Avianca TACA - 33 A320neo

If we add: 8 to Transaero then I am getting 337.
On the other hand the 130 from AA might be discussable.

Quoting Chiad (Reply 22): Here is my list:

AA's 130 were firmed and while there was talk of Air Asia taking an additional 100 frames, I don't believe it has moved beyond the planning stage.

At any rate, I just came across a pdf from Airbus:
http://www.airbus.com/presscentre/co...?eID=dam_frontend_push&docID=19652

Document is dated Nov. 8th, so the only change would be Republic firming their 80 birds.

Official count is indeed 1138 firm + 107 MOU for a total of 1245  

[Edited 2011-11-13 22:58:32]

Quoting flood (Reply 23): Official count is indeed 1138 firm + 107 MOU for a total of 1245

  

That is the current position as I see it

Rgds

Hello ??? Airbus, where are you? You guys arrived in Dubai yet? Its very quiet around them so far... Hope we will see any orders for Airbus during the next days...

Quoting QF340500 (Reply 25):

Patience .... QR cancelled their 10am booking and it's now for 2pm local time.

Quoting flood (Reply 23): AA's 130 were firmed and while there was talk of Air Asia taking an additional 100 frames, I don't believe it has moved beyond the planning stage.

With such reasoning I surrender.
  

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 26): QR cancelled their 10am booking and it's now for 2pm local time.

Please, let us agree that they only postponed the press conference. Otherwise if you say they cancelled like they did in Paris I am getting very nervous...  

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 28): Please, let us agree that they only postponed the press conference. Otherwise if you say they cancelled like they did in Paris I am getting very nervous...

I guess they want all the fuss for themselves, too bad that EK delivered their shot yesterday!

I will be very interested to see if QR do actually finalize on a CSeries order, as has long been rumoured. I am keeping my fingers and toes crossed.

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 28):

Your choice of wording is far better than mine, I thank you for the correction  

We'll go with postponed, which is usually a good sign last minute negotiations are still taking place with a few more hours required to finalise the details

Regards

Paul

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 28): Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 26):QR cancelled their 10am booking and it's now for 2pm local time. Please, let us agree that they only postponed the press conference. Otherwise if you say they cancelled like they did in Paris I am getting very nervous...

No QR press conferences today according to the Show web site. On Saturday, I took a copy for the whole show and they had three booked for today at 10:00, 14:00 & 15:00 (local). Still Airbus have 6 booked, but no orders from the first 2 as they should already have happened??

Perhaps if QR are placing an order they will use the one conference they still have booked for Wednesday or use one that Airbus has in place.

Or the schedule could just be wrong.

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 31): We'll go with postponed, which is usually a good sign last minute negotiations are still taking place with a few more hours required to finalise the details

If you are correct, I suspect those last minute negotiations are only at the request of one side and could be expensive.

http://www.aero.de/news-13898/Qatar-...lugzeuge-bei-Airbus-bestellen.html

Airbus is in talks for orders of around 150 aircraft, including 50 A320NEOs and 5 A380 for QR.

Additional to the 150aircraft there will perhaps be an order for 30 more A380 for EK.

[Edited 2011-11-14 00:53:26]

ALAFCO, the Kuwait-based international Aviation Lease and Finance Company, has finalised a purchase order for 50 A320neo Family aircraft and took options for 30 more to be finalized by year end.

http://event.airbus.com/airshows/dub...mmitment-to-80-airbus-a320neo.html

Nice! Initial MOU was for 30, now 50 firm with a new MOU for another 30 by year end  

[Edited 2011-11-14 03:29:50]

Quoting flood (Reply 35): FlightDKM (David KM with flightglobal) tweeting ALAFCO has ordered 50 A320NEO + 30 options.

Finally so good news for Airbus.
Thanks for the info.

Quoting Chiad (Reply 36):

I had edited the post as Airbus confirmed the order and stated 50 firm + a new 30 MOU.

NEO orders now stand at:

firm: 1188
pending: 107
options: 720+

Quoting flood (Reply 37): NEO orders now stand at: firm: 1188 pending: 107

If we include the 30 more options as "pending" on the basis they are looking to be firmed by year end, then I agree.

1295 in total

Rgds

Commitment for one ACJ321

http://www.airbus.com/presscentre/pr...irst-commitment-for-airbus-acj321/

Quoting oldeuropean (Reply 34): will perhaps be an order for 30 more A380 for EK.

What would 30 x A380 approximately cost? Just curious since EK just spent $18B+ on the 50 x 777-300ER ?

Quoting boacvc10 (Reply 40): What would 30 x A380 approximately cost?

Officialy the A380 costs 375 million $. 30 x 375 = 11Billions. But EK gets a huge discount and they get the plane for 234million $ (38% discount off list price)

234million x 30 = 7billion.

Combined 777 and A380 order would make 25 billion buy for Emirates!     

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/fl...mirates-price-tag-for-an-a380.html

Quoting Extra300 (Reply 39): Commitment for one ACJ321 http://www.airbus.com/presscentre/pr...irst-commitment-for-airbus-acj321/

Interesting news, the 321 hasn't been a popular VIP aircraft at all up to this point. But the press release cites more floor space- I guess someone just wanted more room for beds, flatscreen televisions, pool tables, etc...

Quoting Autothrust (Reply 41): Combined 777 and A380 order would make 25 billion buy for Emirates!

I doubt EK is paying list for 777.

Quoting cmf (Reply 43): I doubt EK is paying list for 777

They aren't. General belief is they see discounts of about half on their 77Ws (and even then, Tim Clark notes the only thing he doesn't like about the 77W is the price he pays    ).

I expect EK pays half for their A380s, as well, based on their order book.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 44): General belief is they see discounts of about half

And that provides a very nice advantage on capital costs. Play big, win big, let's hope it stays there.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 44): I expect EK pays half for their A380s, as well, based on their order book.

Not correct, Emirates price tag for an A380 : $234,000,000.

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/fl...mirates-price-tag-for-an-a380.html

Quoting Autothrust (Reply 41): But EK gets a huge discount and they get the plane for 234million $ (38% discount off list price)

I agree EK get huge discounts for huge orders, but so do other airlines.
However, does that price tag include engines, interior and IFE? Is it the price EK agreed with Airbus, or is the price the lessor paid, to either EK or Airbus? Which price do you compare it to, list price at the time of the order, or today's list price?

There are just too many (unknown) factors involved to calculate such a number (discount percentage). On both sides, there are teams of people sorting out the details of sale. Even if you knew all the details, you can come up with a number, but if you want to compare, you also need to list all the conditions agreed upon the sale. Conditions of the sale will vary greatly from one airline to another.

Quoting Autothrust (Reply 46): Not correct, Emirates price tag for an A380 : $234,000,000. http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/fl....html

One small correction:
234M is what Nimrod paid for the A380 and not EK.
If Nimrod bought those A380 from EK, then 234M doesn't reflect what EK actually paid for them in the first place. EK can be making a good healthy profit from the sale and lease back.

[Edited 2011-11-14 08:51:34]

Quoting boacvc10 (Reply 40): What would 30 x A380 approximately cost? Just curious since EK just spent $18B+ on the 50 x 777-300ER ?

Quoting Autothrust (Reply 41): Officialy the A380 costs 375 million $. 30 x 375 = 11Billions. But EK gets a huge discount and they get the plane for 234million $ (38% discount off list price) 234million x 30 = 7billion. Combined 777 and A380 order would make 25 billion buy for Emirates! http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/fl....html

This all just goes to show how little we know about what the airlines pay for their new planes

The quoted $18 billion for the 773ER's comes to $360 million per plane, if we factor in a discount to the level of the 38% quoted that EK get from Airbus, that would still leave them paying $223 per plane. Clearly an A380 has got to be more than $9 million more than a 773ER, either Boeing gives rather larger discounts than Airbus, or all the figures we hear are at best misleading.