na
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RE: IB Will Introduce A New Livery In 2012

Sun Nov 13, 2011 11:42 pm

I always liked the colouring of IBs aircraft, and besides the rather ugly tail treatment I think the graphics with the bold stripes are not outdated and a perfect adoption of the Spanish flag. Its still one of the better schemes around though I agree a little twist and especially a redesign of the logo would help.
Lets hope the coming redesign will not sport a scheme where the front 3/4 of the fuselage will be plain white with just titles and a colourful tail extended over the rear quarter of the fuselage. I
 
VC10er
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RE: IB Will Introduce A New Livery In 2012

Mon Nov 14, 2011 12:12 am

From LANDOR....

It's 34 years old. At the time it was breakthrough, but given it reflected the leading edge of design back then, it is dated. Which is ok. We shouldn't dispense with EVERYTHING from the 70's! But that said airlines must keep up. Does anyone know who did the new one?

The IB with the crown must be kept. Walter Landor always created "symbols" that would stand the test of time: Singapore, Thai, Cathay, BA (but that was ruined) Garuda (which we just recreated the livery and barely touched the bird aka the "Garuda") Alitalia, and the poor VARIG compass/sun was beautiful albeit simple) even FedEx- all LANDOR.

And yes .... PLEASE GOD ALMIGHTY ... NO SWOOSHES!
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
aviateur
Posts: 562
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RE: IB Will Introduce A New Livery In 2012

Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:14 am

Mr. Markham: no offense, but whatever you do, KEEP THE DAY JOB! Graphic design and branding isn't your strong suit. How much peyote did you take before coming up with that A340? Your Iberia livery is a hallucination of heat.


Remember:

the truly effective corporate logo/livery/brand is one that even a small child can re-create with relative ease, using nothing more than his memory and a pencil. Think Pan Am, Lufthansa, American... And the gist of it must rely on shape, not color.


PS
Patrick Smith is an airline pilot, air travel columnist and author
 
BMI727
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RE: IB Will Introduce A New Livery In 2012

Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:24 am

Quoting IBERIA747 (Thread starter):
Yes...after having used the same image during the last 34 years, IB has announced that a new livery and corporate image will be introduced in 2012.

About time.

Quoting VC10er (Reply 51):
We shouldn't dispense with EVERYTHING from the 70's!

Not everything, but this livery has not aged well. Looking at it you cannot help but wonder if the interior includes shag carpets. It's definitely time for a change. Keep the IB logo, but make the colors brighter (not necessarily more of it, but brighter) since the current livery looks a bit faded even when it's fresh.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
caribb
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RE: IB Will Introduce A New Livery In 2012

Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:01 am

Wow Hell must have frozen over. What's next a new AA livery?
 
BMI727
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RE: IB Will Introduce A New Livery In 2012

Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:02 am

Quoting caribb (Reply 54):
What's next a new AA livery?

Theirs has aged much better than Iberia's, though a change will have to be coming.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
Superfly
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RE: IB Will Introduce A New Livery In 2012

Mon Nov 14, 2011 5:28 am

Quoting BA174 (Reply 47):
You are seriously kidding my if you think a fleet of landors would work today?

I'm simply asking you a question.

Quoting caribb (Reply 54):
Wow Hell must have frozen over. What's next a new AA livery?

I hope not!
Sadly they may have to start painting their planes when the new plastic planes come in to service.

Quoting na (Reply 50):
Lets hope the coming redesign will not sport a scheme where the front 3/4 of the fuselage will be plain white with just titles and a colourful tail extended over the rear quarter of the fuselage. I

  

Quoting kanban (Reply 46):
youth today want constant change so they don't get bored.

Most of those "youth" are flying Ryan Air and EasyJet. 
Bring back the Concorde
 
na
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RE: IB Will Introduce A New Livery In 2012

Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:45 am

Here is my idea for an IB redesign. Keeping the colours and with a decidedly holdiday feel, I think this will make a big impression on any airport as its outstanding from the crowd. I have also slighlly redesigned the logo. The crown on the titles has a treatment like the "registered trademark" sign which I think is smart:

Idea for an Iberia redesign on a 748I
 
777way
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RE: IB Will Introduce A New Livery In 2012

Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:05 am

Since they wont have VLRs your concept is even most suitable as it will look better on smaller aircraft.
 
IBERIA747
Topic Author
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RE: IB Will Introduce A New Livery In 2012

Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:33 am

Quoting na (Reply 57):

I love the design. Find it very innovative and looks impressive.
However, this is how it looks if applied on a 747 which Iberia doesnt operate. How would it look when painted on a thin/long A340-600??. Much of it's charm could be lost (I hope I'm wrong though). On the other hand, I think it would suit the A320-family perfectly. A bit more color on the tail would also look nice. A bigger logo, perhaps.

[Edited 2011-11-14 03:17:11]
¡¡VIVA ESPAÑA!!
 
na
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RE: IB Will Introduce A New Livery In 2012

Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:13 am

Quoting IBERIA747 (Reply 59):
I love the design. Find it very innovative and looks impressive.

Thanks. I would expect IB would like a little more "business" feel though.

Quoting IBERIA747 (Reply 59):
However, this is how it looks applied on a 747 but...how would it look when painted on a thin/long A340-600??.Much of it's charm could be lost (I hope I'm wrong though).

A little is lost as I played with the hump of the 748I which of cause isnt possible on the A340.
See for yourself:

 
trinxat
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RE: IB Will Introduce A New Livery In 2012

Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:24 am

Quoting HBIHLtoEZE (Reply 14):
Interesting topic - I would have thought that the livery was more appeciated still. One should not forget that the change in '77 also underlined the change in Spain's politics.

Well, if the new livery has to reflect the current climate in Spain's politics, I wonder what color combination would that be....

sewer brown with rotten yellow? add a bit of putrid green!

Quoting Civilav (Reply 16):
Maybe the IBERIA titles on the fuselage are red (like in the Franco era...) and the inscription "Líneas Aéreas de España" in Spanish.

If the new conservative party PP wins the elections with the wide margin they are predicted, do not worry the word "España" will be bigger then ever!

My guesses are:
-Option 1: a copy of singapore airlines livery with the intention that people mistake the planes and hopefully get some more customers
-Option 2: the faces of Messi, Cristiano Ronaldo, Xavi and Casillas across the fuselage "a la Mt Rushmore" as it seems it is the only thing that Spain can be proud of at present
-Option 3: A raging bull in the front and a matador in the tail, with pictures of "banderillas" across the fuselage. No issues in Catalonia (since bulffighting is banned) as IB is barely in there at all

hehehe humour please!!
 
nonimaus
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:11 am

RE: IB Will Introduce A New Livery In 2012

Mon Nov 14, 2011 12:43 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 45):
Offering good service, not nickel & dimeing your customers and competitive pricing is what customers are looking for. The livery of the airline is not a factor in people's purchase of an airline ticket.

Of course customers want those other things, I never said that the livery is a deciding factor; I said that companies can't afford to give the impression that they're stuck in the past, and judging from friends' reports of the exteriors, interiors, ameneties and the service on board, IB are falling behind the times in giving passenger what they actually want.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 45):
That is true because there were far more impressive liveries back then. Today Iberia stands out as a majestic livery compared to the onslaught of the generic Euro-white liveries.

That's not what I meant and to be honest, I'm not even sure how you interpreted that from what I said, so let me make it clearer; airline liveries in the 70's were cheatline after cheatline with little variation on that theme. There were some that stood out because the execution was backed up by a strong logo / typeface, but so many of them were nothing special at all because they were literally just a cheatline and the company name.
 
Akiestar
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RE: IB Will Introduce A New Livery In 2012

Mon Nov 14, 2011 12:53 pm

Quoting trinxat (Reply 61):

-Option 3: A raging bull in the front and a matador in the tail, with pictures of "banderillas" across the fuselage. No issues in Catalonia (since bulffighting is banned) as IB is barely in there at all

Wouldn't this be too similar to AeroSur's Torísimo and Súper Torísimo?  

[Edited 2011-11-14 04:54:17]
 
taichen
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RE: IB Will Introduce A New Livery In 2012

Mon Nov 14, 2011 1:15 pm

Quoting european742 (Reply 49):

I wonder if the new livery will be based on the current design as seen at their check-in desks


Athough I suppose not if its a complete rebrand.

I do like the current livery, its warm and is timeless as others have said.

I was thinking the same thing. Actually those stripped patterns now being used in check-in desks and such, were already in place (or pretty similar, at least), in the early 80's, then for some reason discontinued and many years later reintroduced ... I do think that IB is in dire need of a fresh new livery. It is not the ugliest in the skies, but it is certainly worn and well used.
 
taichen
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RE: IB Will Introduce A New Livery In 2012

Mon Nov 14, 2011 1:19 pm

Quoting trinxat (Reply 61):
If the new conservative party PP wins the elections with the wide margin they are predicted, do not worry the word "España" will be bigger then ever!

Well ... as you surely know, Iberia is a private airline, and it has been for a while now ...
 
Superfly
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RE: IB Will Introduce A New Livery In 2012

Mon Nov 14, 2011 1:22 pm

Quoting na (Reply 57):
I think this will make a big impression on any airport as its outstanding from the crowd.

The existing livery already stands out from the crowd.

View Large View Medium
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Photo © Eddie Heisterkamp
View Large View Medium
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Photo © Tomas Cologan


Just look at this beauty. Why on earth would anyone want to change this?




Quoting nonimaus (Reply 62):
judging from friends' reports of the exteriors, interiors, ameneties and the service on board, IB are falling behind the times in giving passenger what they actually want.

I've flown Iberia and found their service superb compared to the competition offered on Delta, Continental, US Airways and British Airways. Those airlines have upadated/cheapen their liveries in recent years.

Quoting nonimaus (Reply 62):
so many of them were nothing special at all because they were literally just a cheatline and the company name.

Cheatlines are amazing because they emphasize the length of the aircraft. It makes the aircraft look more sleek. The current Euro-white with painted tail and the swoosh designs looks like something a frustrated failed artist threw together. Perhaps their 'artwork' would be better suited for a calendar or a magazine ad but should not be on an aircraft.
Bring back the Concorde
 
nonimaus
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RE: IB Will Introduce A New Livery In 2012

Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:49 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 66):
Cheatlines are amazing because they emphasize the length of the aircraft. It makes the aircraft look more sleek. The current Euro-white with painted tail and the swoosh designs looks like something a frustrated failed artist threw together. Perhaps their 'artwork' would be better suited for a calendar or a magazine ad but should not be on an aircraft.

That's all very Freudian, but there's more than one way to make an plane look good, and restricting yourself to one design option is a bit...plain (har...and indeed har), and in defence of euro-white, I think the common logic on here that it's an abomination is a fallacy. I get that what people want is something that's bold that fills the space well, but to equate "good" with cheatline purely because it fills a large blank area is kinda disingenuous; there's a definite place for understatement and minimalism if the tail design and the fuselage lettering is well considered.

I'd consider that an strong logo goes much further in forming the basis of a decent livery; Thai, Singapore, Lufthansa, Air France, American...they all have brilliant logos with enough flexibility to be adapted to uses outside of their primary use because they're distinctive and eye catching. I'll fess up and admit that whilst Iberia's logo is distinct enough and shouldn't be scrapped, I don't really like it, but that's just personal taste. The styling of the stripes, however, look very much a product of their time and I think they can do better.

Do I think they should just slap a swoosh on? Not unless it's relevant. Do I think they should just go eurowhite? Not necessarily. I don't have a fully formulated idea in my head right now as to which direction I think they should go in, but I might knock something up later to give you an idea of how I think they can improve...and so you can have a good laugh, of course.
 
Superfly
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RE: IB Will Introduce A New Livery In 2012

Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:10 pm

Quoting nonimaus (Reply 67):
That's all very Freudian, but there's more than one way to make an plane look good, and restricting yourself to one design option is a bit...plain (har...and indeed har), and in defence of euro-white, I think the common logic on here that it's an abomination is a fallacy.

Euro-white is ok if only a few airlines did it. Air France was the first major carrier to do it and it looks fine for them. I just hated to see others hop on the bandwagon.
Keep in mind, American Airlines have been creative by simply not painting their planes at all except for the cheatline. American's livery is timeless and very recognizable.
In the case with Thai Airways, that was another disappointment when they changed their livery. There was nothing wrong or dated about their Landor livery. It was classy and represented the country well.
The era of the cheatline had far more distinction than the Euro-white/logo design. A lot more work & creativity goes in to the design of the older cheatline livery. There is little imagination with a white plane and logo on the tail.
Who are these people that come up with these ideas?
Bring back the Concorde
 
777way
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RE: IB Will Introduce A New Livery In 2012

Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:01 pm

Quoting VC10er (Reply 51):

But Landor messed up Air India with the red slash branding in late 80's what made it really bad was the typeface used, and the JAL arc of the Sun scheme most dont like either, I like both except in AI case I would have preferred billboard titles in gold using Emirates typeface.
 
nonimaus
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RE: IB Will Introduce A New Livery In 2012

Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:25 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 68):
The era of the cheatline had far more distinction than the Euro-white/logo design. A lot more work & creativity goes in to the design of the older cheatline livery. There is little imagination with a white plane and logo on the tail.

I think the idea that no creativity goes into the decision to go eurowhite is a pretty curious thing to say; after all, how much creativity *really* goes into the decision to add a stripe along the plane? I don't think it's a design choice that requires that much consideration given a) how synonymous that design motif is in the history of aviation and b) that it's a glaringly obvious thing to do to easily fill dead space in any design whether it's print or product.

I guess everyone has an approximation in their mind of what constitutes 'good' and the impression I get from you is that the classic look is one that suffices. My own stance here isn't that I don't dislike any one theme in liveries more than another and I don't think there's a definite design trend that unequivocally stands head and shoulders above the rest. Statements such as eurowhite = bad / lazy, and cheatlines = best / majestic just seem false because it's possible to produce something terrible regardless of which direction you go in.
 
SXDFC
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RE: IB Will Introduce A New Livery In 2012

Mon Nov 14, 2011 6:01 pm


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Darren Varney



Salvador Dalí wearing the "Thai Motif"


http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc368/737-8H4/iberia.jpg
 
Superfly
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RE: IB Will Introduce A New Livery In 2012

Mon Nov 14, 2011 6:52 pm

Quoting 777way (Reply 69):
But Landor messed up Air India with the red slash branding in late 80's

I disagree with that statement. The Air India of that era was another excellent example of a beautiful livery that really represented India well. I especially like the mini-Taj Mahal painted around the windows on their aircraft. That is really distinctive and unique to India.

Quoting nonimaus (Reply 70):
how much creativity *really* goes into the decision to add a stripe along the plane?

A hell of a lot more than a barren white fuselage with a logo on the tail.

Quoting nonimaus (Reply 70):
I guess everyone has an approximation in their mind of what constitutes 'good' and the impression I get from you is that the classic look is one that suffices. My own stance here isn't that I don't dislike any one theme in liveries more than another and I don't think there's a definite design trend that unequivocally stands head and shoulders above the rest. Statements such as eurowhite = bad / lazy, and cheatlines = best / majestic just seem false because it's possible to produce something terrible regardless of which direction you go in.

There have been a few exceptions with a livery improvement. TWA changed their livery for a much richer, newer, modern livery in the 1990s which I think was much better than their cheatline and block logo on the tail. It would have been nice if other airline's 'updating' put time & effort to their livery as TWA did.
Sad they're no longer with us. I doubt the livery change had anything to do with their demise.

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 71):
Salvador Dalí wearing the "Thai Motif"

I hope you're kidding.   
BTW, Thai wasn't the first to go with the cigarette wrap were they?
Bring back the Concorde
 
nonimaus
Posts: 39
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RE: IB Will Introduce A New Livery In 2012

Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:05 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 72):
A hell of a lot more than a barren white fuselage with a logo on the tail.

I highly doubt that that statement is true in the main, regardless of common public perception.

[Edited 2011-11-14 11:08:05]
 
Superfly
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RE: IB Will Introduce A New Livery In 2012

Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:44 pm

Quoting nonimaus (Reply 73):
I highly doubt that that statement is true in the main, regardless of common public perception.

Wow. So you really think there was equal amount of creativity that went in to the design of creating this...

View Large View Medium
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Photo © Air Canon
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Photo © N94504




as this?



View Large View Medium
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Photo © Jason Whitebird

Bring back the Concorde
 
777way
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RE: IB Will Introduce A New Livery In 2012

Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:30 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 72):
Quoting 777way (Reply 69):
But Landor messed up Air India with the red slash branding in late 80's

I disagree with that statement. The Air India of that era was another excellent example of a beautiful livery that really represented India well. I especially like the mini-Taj Mahal painted around the windows on their aircraft. That is really distinctive and unique to India.

Referring to this one.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © M.Oertle

 
nonimaus
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RE: IB Will Introduce A New Livery In 2012

Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:05 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 74):
Wow. So you really think there was equal amount of creativity that went in to the design of creating this...

Honestly, yes, I believe the creative process of draft after draft and subsequent rejections, approvals, rejections, consultations and approval was most likely EXACTLY the same for all three. That's what actually happens; it's a tedious, long drawn out process of research, rejected drafts and mind numbing tweak after tweak because the kerning on the lettering is off, or the logo isn't the right shade to make it 'pop' enough, or one person wants to see something dropped because the design is too busy, and then when that goes through, it's rejected because it's not busy enough. It's boring and frustrating, and great ideas get mangled along the way, but that's what happens all the time.

I don't know what you think 'creativity' is, but from what I can tell from your postings, you seem to equate the amount of coverage with the effort given and that's just not the case. To be quite honest, if it weren't for the cheatline, the Varig livery you posted would be nothing special, and even with it, it's still very much a product of it's era in that it massively borrows the stylings of so many other contemporaries of the time. I love the logo, but take that and the away and I start seeing shadows of BOAC all over it. Do I think that's lazy? No, it's paying homage to great design.

As for BA, the Landor livery borrowed from the Negus livery that preceded it; if anything it was the refinement of a concept, not a fresh design overall. Do I think that taking heavy influence means that the Landor Associates team were lazy and didn't put any effort in? Absolutely not, because they most likely still had to work hard to get to where they did.

It doesn't matter how much paint ends up on the side of a plane, or how good or bad its perceived to be; people still had to work hard to get that result and I respect that effort even if I disagree with the design choice.
 
iberiadc852
Posts: 287
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RE: IB Will Introduce A New Livery In 2012

Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:05 pm

Quoting Markam (Reply 27):
Here is a livery that I designed some time ago, using a concept by JALopezR as template. I have no idea whether the actual new one will be any close to it, but I would certainly like it painted on IB's fleet!

That's the best I have seen so far; I just don't think the lines of the engines will succeed, but change it by red and it will be perfect. And a higher differenciation from Avianca-Asiana tail will also be welcome.

Congratulations. (Sorry, I couldn't repeat your image here).
variety is the spice of life; that's what made the "old times" so good
 
Jonathanxxxx
Posts: 343
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RE: IB Will Introduce A New Livery In 2012

Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:24 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 74):

Well The Varig is pretty much a cheat line with large Varig titles... Although that British Airways livery is very nice and creative. I like it just as much as the current one. Although truthfully the Delta and Varig probably didn't need too much creativity.

Quoting 777way (Reply 75):

Don't like that one either....
 
ghifty
Posts: 906
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RE: IB Will Introduce A New Livery In 2012

Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:47 pm

Quoting jonathanxxxx (Reply 31):
I liked this one a lot. Looks very elegant.


Looks a little bit too close to Lauda Air's livery. And I don't think it fits the "mood" of Spain, as a tourist this looks to dull. But it is very nice (for BA!).

Quoting Aloha717200 (Reply 40):
Well, judging by recent precedent for airline livery redesigns, which seem to be aimed more at "economical" liveries, I imagine the redesgin will come out looking more like this:


I like that one.
Fly Delta (Wid)Jets

Comments made here reflect only my personal opinions.
 
qf002
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RE: IB Will Introduce A New Livery In 2012

Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:45 am

Quoting nonimaus (Reply 76):
Honestly, yes, I believe the creative process of draft after draft and subsequent rejections, approvals, rejections, consultations and approval was most likely EXACTLY the same for all three

I agree. We aren't seeing the liveries that we're seeing today because designers are lazy or management wants to cut costs (these things are still costing airlines millions and millions of dollars to create) but rather because that's the trend. That's what the market research is telling airlines that customers want to see. I have zero doubt that the process used to design liveries like AY's (which is actually very creative IMO with such a unique font which probably took a long time to perfect) and JL's is as involved as others 30 years ago...
 
luckyone
Posts: 2884
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

RE: IB Will Introduce A New Livery In 2012

Tue Nov 15, 2011 2:34 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 53):

Not everything, but this livery has not aged well. Looking at it you cannot help but wonder if the interior includes shag carpets. It's definitely time for a change. Keep the IB logo, but make the colors brighter (not necessarily more of it, but brighter) since the current livery looks a bit faded even when it's fresh.

It will be very hard IMHO opinion for Iberia not to look 70s regardless of the stylings simply because of the colors involved. It's like the 60s with that baby poop green or the naughties and steel blue. Orange and red were the defining colors of the era, only most carriers used them on the inside of aircraft.
 
AR385
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Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

RE: IB Will Introduce A New Livery In 2012

Tue Nov 15, 2011 3:43 am

Quoting qf002 (Reply 80):
(these things are still costing airlines millions and millions of dollars to create) but rather because that's the trend.

And therein lies the problem. I will be objective here. Why does an airline such as IB, needs to spend all those millions changing their corporate image across the board when the livery, for example, counts for nothing if other areas in your company are lacking, like onboard service, ground service, and other things INSIDE the plane, or that have NOTHING to do with the livery.

I have to fly IB at least once a year. And ever since I flew them the first time, in 1988 their service is the same. Bad. Their hard product is average at best but boy, hardly have I flown an airline with such surly, rude, complacent and racist cabin crew.

Maybe in their flights to the US and intra-Europe they behave differently, but on Latin American flights, which is their bread and butter, IB´s service both in J and Y is despicable. When I fly with them, I try to get the night flight, right after take off a shot of scotch and 1 Clonazepam so they only wake me up when we are 30 mins. out of MAD.

Otherwise, it´s hellish.

They ought to spend money on fixing those things first, other than worrying about the paint outside their airliners. Which is, by the way, the only lovely thing about IB.

UX is waaaay better in J than IB is. Which tells you a lot about the corporate culture of IB.

They should fix all of that first, instead on spending an insane amount of money on a "corporate image revamp"

Spain is wonderful and the Spanish people are warm, kind, hospitable and wonderful too, overall. Why can´t their "flagship airline" give you that feeling when you board it.?

[Edited 2011-11-14 19:45:39]

[Edited 2011-11-14 19:48:09]
 
Superfly
Posts: 37705
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: IB Will Introduce A New Livery In 2012

Tue Nov 15, 2011 3:54 am

Quoting 777way (Reply 75):
Referring to this one.

Thanks for the correction.

Quoting nonimaus (Reply 76):
you seem to equate the amount of coverage with the effort given

Not true at all. Look at the abominations Qantas has called the Wunala Dreaming, Nalanji Dreaming and he special livery South African had on their 747-300.   

Quoting nonimaus (Reply 76):
I believe the creative process of draft after draft and subsequent rejections, approvals, rejections, consultations and approval was most likely EXACTLY the same for all three. That's what actually happens;

Well aware of that process.

Quoting qf002 (Reply 80):
We aren't seeing the liveries that we're seeing today because designers are lazy or management wants to cut costs (these things are still costing airlines millions and millions of dollars to create) but rather because that's the trend. That's what the market research is telling airlines that customers want to see.

If airlines want to piss away ca$h, I can think of much better ways to do it instead of painting their planes white with a swoosh or painted tail.
But hey, we all have our preferences.
Bring back the Concorde
 
VC10er
Posts: 4196
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:25 am

RE: IB Will Introduce A New Livery In 2012

Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:48 am

Quoting aviateur (Reply 52):
Quoting Superfly (Reply 74):

Sorry, this is my thing! First I just need to say this: color is equally if not more important than shape. The human brain will recall color over shape. The way you determine color at the onset of a branding project is often to do un-aided and aided "write and draw" with consumer workshops. For example: we were going to embark on a redesign of Pizza Hut. Without any visual aid 100% of the "heavy users" eg: people who ate at PH one or more times a month, picked out a RED magic marker but were unable to draw the "roof" logo. When we did this for Pepsi 18 years ago we asked consumers to draw cola-Cola (they chose red first then did the script best they could- with no aided stimulus. When asked to draw Pepsi, they couldn't. Because Pepsi was white with bits of red and blue stripes and a ball) we created Pepsi Blue. I even painted an AF Concorde in all blue as a promotion. Today...If you close your eyes and think Pepsi and you will recall blue first.
Not always, I am sure Apple, Golden Arches or Singapore shape/symbol would come first: but those shapes are things. In other cases consumers may just draw an airplane and write UNITED or AMERICAN and have more difficulty with color. Perhaps the Tulip or AA.

Now as for airplanes, color can still dominate in some cases: Alitalia, AI, KLM even Vietnam!
I agree shape is EXTREMELY important. Johnnie Walker would be a great example.
When Walter did Thai he introduced a new color to aviation: purple, with hits of pink! And indeed created a very memorable symbol. Same for Simgapore.

As for my points on BA and RG: first the shot of RG in the old Pre LANDOR design. BA was the most elegant and copied of all. Yes, it was an overhaul of the previous but that looked cheap. Not worthy of England! And VARIG took a livery from the early 50's I think and made it look world class. The script BRAZIL was also a "never done before" touch that added class to what once was the Singapore of South America.

AI, wow people have long memories. That whole program was a disaster with plenty of blame to hand out. It was 25 years ago!!!
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
qf002
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RE: IB Will Introduce A New Livery In 2012

Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:52 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 82):
They should fix all of that first, instead on spending an insane amount of money on a "corporate image revamp"

I agree. One would hope that a corporate rebrand is only a part of a larger scheme to revitalise the airline as a whole.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 83):
But hey, we all have our preferences.

Never said that it's what I like to see, just that's what the market research is telling the airlines. As I just said, corporate rebranding has to be just be part of a bigger plan to be worth the money.
 
LHRFlyer
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RE: IB Will Introduce A New Livery In 2012

Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:57 pm

Quoting qf002 (Reply 85):
I agree. One would hope that a corporate rebrand is only a part of a larger scheme to revitalise the airline as a whole.

It is.

The brand update was one very small part of a presentation on Friday about renewing Iberia and improving the performance of MAD as a hub.

See from slide 169 of this:

http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_...Capital%20Markets%20Day%202011.pdf

[Edited 2011-11-15 04:58:49]
 
BMI727
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RE: IB Will Introduce A New Livery In 2012

Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:08 pm

Quoting luckyone (Reply 81):
It will be very hard IMHO opinion for Iberia not to look 70s regardless of the stylings simply because of the colors involved.

I think they need to go darker and brighter. The current colors look faded in the sun.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
skipness1E
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RE: IB Will Introduce A New Livery In 2012

Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:17 pm

Quoting qf002 (Reply 80):
That's what the market research is telling airlines that customers want to see. I have zero doubt that the process used to design liveries like AY's (which is actually very creative IMO with such a unique font which probably took a long time to perfect)

Market reserch only talks to a very particular batch of people. The unemployed, those with nothing better to do with surveys, the elderly, made up numbers etc. The Finnair livery is very basic and very lazy. Only a vanishly small proprtion of customers fell in a heap exclaiming "Dear God look at the outstanding font on that !" Have you ever watched a show called Nathan Barley? I work alongside marketeers and to be honest, they don't understand data beneath senior management level as they are creative types. Now that's not a criticism, it's just nonsense to say that this is what "people" in the generic sense want to see. I have never answered a survey in my life, mainly because I had something morer pressing to do. It's like Virgin Atlantic, the wheels are coming off, the A330s aren't going into LHR on time, SkyTrax is downgrading and the aircraft are filthy inside (excepting LHR in the most part). So they changed the shade of red and introduiced a new font which is still not used on the website and the whole look of T3 Check in is still coloured as per the 2000 scheme aka the one before the one before the current scheme. "Something must be seen to be done as we're not going to spend the money fixing what NEEDs to be done" goes the mantra.

Watch next years schemes, they'll have blue cheatlines and silver bellies a little bit like Pan Am. Why? Because Christina Ricci is sexy.
 
Superfly
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RE: IB Will Introduce A New Livery In 2012

Tue Nov 15, 2011 8:17 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 88):
Market reserch only talks to a very particular batch of people. The unemployed, those with nothing better to do with surveys, the elderly, made up numbers etc.

Very true. I did a few years ago when I was in college during the dotcom boom in San Francisco. You wouldn't believe the silly ideas some companies came up with. To top it off, the people in these focus groups never had any expert or scientific real world experience to give a professional opinion. Many were just happy to get $75 and a free sandwich.
The call screeners to locate participants were often high school students. Today they rely on Survey Monkey to find participants good luck getting an expert opinion with that. and most of the time, the questionnaires are too long.
A good example of a company that relied too heavily on market research is General Motors. I went to a few for General Motors over 10 years ago. Fast-forward 10 years and they needed a federal loan bailout.

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 88):
The Finnair livery is very basic and very lazy.

  
That livery is so boring, I forgot it existed.

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 88):
"Something must be seen to be done as we're not going to spend the money fixing what NEEDs to be done" goes the mantra.

Delta Airlines has gone through 4 different liveries over the past 15 years and have consistently been a lousy airline. Talk about putting lipstick on a pig.
Bring back the Concorde
 
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Braybuddy
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RE: IB Will Introduce A New Livery In 2012

Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:16 pm

Quoting na (Reply 60):

Wow! Fantastic! Iberia would be crazy not to go for this design.
 
airbazar
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RE: IB Will Introduce A New Livery In 2012

Tue Nov 15, 2011 10:53 pm

It's like a.net never learns   When was the last time you saw a major airline radically change its livery? IF there is a "new" livery I'm not expecting anything radically different. We'll probably see a different letter font and maybe one or two minor subtle changes to the livery, a la Air France or Qantas, and that's it.
 
ardian
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RE: IB Will Introduce A New Livery In 2012

Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:34 am

Quoting aviateur (Reply 17):

I'm with you with this one. Infact, I even wanted to say the same thing: please avoid a 'swoosh' in the design. Even a minor 'tweak' can have a tremendous impact I'm afraid (e.g. AF, Qatar and Qantas). I definitely welcome a new livery, as the current one looks a tad old fashioned and even 'retro'.
 
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garpd
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RE: IB Will Introduce A New Livery In 2012

Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:44 am

I can tell you know, that any design released to the public before an official announcement will never be taken up.

Airlines (and Companies in general) prefer branding design to remain confidential until the brand is launched.
So by posting your ideas here, you've taken yourself out of the running...not that any of us have a chance anyway.

IB will probably be talking to Landor about their new brand. And if they intend to launch it in 2012, they're already deep in planning and development.

I hope IB go the opposite way of Finnair and JAL and choose vibrancy and elegance over cost.
arpdesign.wordpress.com
 
BMI727
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RE: IB Will Introduce A New Livery In 2012

Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:06 am

Quoting ardian (Reply 92):
Infact, I even wanted to say the same thing: please avoid a 'swoosh' in the design.

I think a little bit of "swooshiness" would work okay for Iberia. The colors are nice and Spanish culture and image is more laid back than a lot of others. I'm not in favor of random swirls and such, but they certainly do not need something formulaic or stuffy. Contrast that to British Airways that should have a more formal and straightforward brand like the Landor colors.

Quoting garpd (Reply 93):
I hope IB go the opposite way of Finnair and JAL and choose vibrancy and elegance over cost

With the national colors of Spain it would be hard not to. Finnair's was bad because it does nothing to fight the perception of Finland as a cold, isolated place. The plane looks like a snowdrift, it just needs more.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
777way
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RE: IB Will Introduce A New Livery In 2012

Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:46 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 94):
Finnair's was bad because it does nothing to fight the perception of Finland as a cold, isolated place. The plane looks like a snowdrift, it just needs more.

Alot of people dont realise the Finnair livery is inline with the look they have worn traditionally with partially painted tail and a bit of blue on the fuselage in form on cheatline now billboard title, the fully painted tail on an all while plane was a break from that and it didnt look Finnair, now they are back to a new form of their traditional appearence and they look Finnair again.
 
qf002
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RE: IB Will Introduce A New Livery In 2012

Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:22 am

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 88):
Market reserch only talks to a very particular batch of people. The unemployed, those with nothing better to do with surveys, the elderly, made up numbers etc.

Not necessarily. I know for a fact that QF uses a select group of frequent flyers for much of their market research... Perhaps for some of the 'headline reports/surveys' you hear about on dodgy consumer current affairs programs are based on this type of market research, but internal stuff which costs corporations millions tend to be taken much more seriously.
 
VC10er
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RE: IB Will Introduce A New Livery In 2012

Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:14 pm

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 88):

I don't mean to be sarcastic but how much do you really know about research and which methodologies are used for assessing and feeding development and validation of brand identities, including airlines?

Do you know what a "planner" does in the process?

Your comments seem as if you have painted research with a very wide brush by just a few experiences, IMHO!

As a designer of these things properly done research among experts to the average flier are extremely important. However I will say this, in the creation of a livery and all the branded material often have just some insights driven research and very little validation as so often it is the airlines C-suite who make the final decision and rely very little on research findings. Most of the work is done up front to mine for insights to inform the design.

But, as a young designer I really frowned on market research until I found out how to use it to do better work and I have the deepest respect for those who do it well and provide valuable info that only helps. Surveys, like the ones some airlines ask are just a tiny part of research. Have you ever seen one that asks "what do you think of our new livery?" it usually just asks about seat comfort, cleanliness or food. And the experts know EXACTLY which ones to listen too and which ones to knock out and how many people could have but didn't take it and factor that in too.
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
VC10er
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RE: IB Will Introduce A New Livery In 2012

Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:42 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 89):

Sorry, but I don't think your personal experience is representative of a major industry of R&D. IMHO! Perhaps GM got bum info or an Executive/s either not to believe it and go with their gut (which is valid) but know way more circumstances where solid nuggets of info really drove success. And I have sat behind the mirror more times than I care to think of- NOTHING is more boring until ONE person out of 50 or 100 says something where you say "holy Sh~T I NEVER thought of that.

As for serial focus group attendees: we know. In fact if it is really bad where clearly the Pre screen is BAD we refuse to pay for the session. People who are there for the $75 always give themselves away. Doesn't mean someone else in the room is not contributing...but it is the reason I prefer Triads over focus groups.

You should Google "Young & Rubicam BAV" for an amazing example of quantitative research with has interviews hundreds of thousands of people globally over 10 tracking brand strength. All the major airlines are in it among a hundred other categories. It will give you the rolled up sample of brand strength of United over American, Singapore, Emirates and even TAM and how they match up against each other over a sample size of maybe 700,000 people or so. But it ain't easy to read unless your a senior marketer or researcher.


LAST: someone sent me a personal message, but I lost it. If I didn't respond, sorry. Feel free to resend.
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
Braniff747SP
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RE: IB Will Introduce A New Livery In 2012

Fri Nov 25, 2011 5:14 pm

Quoting LHRFlyer (Reply 86):

The brand update was one very small part of a presentation on Friday about renewing Iberia and improving the performance of MAD as a hub.

See from slide 169 of this:

That was posted over a week ago... Any word?
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