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PanAm_DC10
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Emirates Order 50 777-300ERs Plus 20 Options

Sun Nov 13, 2011 11:51 am

Today at the Dubai Airshow Emirates announced an order for 50 777-300ER's with an additional 20 options,

DUBAI, United Arab Emirates, Nov. 13, 2011 /PRNewswire/ -- Boeing (NYSE: BA) and Dubai-based Emirates Airline today announced an order for 50 Boeing 777-300ERs (Extended Range) plus options for an additional 20 of the popular twin-aisle commercial jetliner.

The order, with a value of $18 billion, makes this the single largest commercial airplane order in Boeing's history by dollar value.


Source - Emirates and Boeing

Emirates is already the largest 777 operator with 94 in its fleet plus 41 additional unfilled orders. Boeing recently commenced assembly of the 1000th 777, a 300ER for the carrier. Boeing Begins Work On 1,000th 777 (by phishphan70 Nov 10 2011 in Civil Aviation)

As noted, for Boeing this is the single largest commercial airplane order in their history and breaks the record for the most 777s ordered in a single year with net sales now at 182, the previous year being 154 in 2005.

It will be interesting to see how many of these frames are for growth or to replace older models and over what time deliveries are scheduled. With the recent delay for the A350-1000 that too may have had an influence.

For more on Boeing orders from Dubai refer to the Dubai Boeing thread Dubai Air Show 2011 Boeing Orders (by moderators Nov 12 2011 in Civil Aviation)
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tak
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RE: Emirates Order 50 777-300ERs Plus 20 Options

Sun Nov 13, 2011 11:59 am

Holy Cow!!! What a huge order.

Any hint that some of these might be the improved 77W?

Excellent news for the 777 and Boeing. Does this make this the biggest sales year for the 777 ever?

WOW!
 
windshear
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RE: Emirates Order 50 777-300ERs Plus 20 Options

Sun Nov 13, 2011 12:09 pm

Wow that is one jumbo order!

Looks like the 77W is here to stay.

Boaz.
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CXB77L
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RE: Emirates Order 50 777-300ERs Plus 20 Options

Sun Nov 13, 2011 12:15 pm

Quoting tak (Reply 1):
Does this make this the biggest sales year for the 777 ever?

Yes. As mentioned by PanAm_DC10:

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Thread starter):
breaks the record for the most 777s ordered in a single year with net sales now at 182, the previous year being 154 in 2005.

Fantastic news for Boeing and Emirates.   
Boeing 777 fanboy
 
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EPA001
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RE: Emirates Order 50 777-300ERs Plus 20 Options

Sun Nov 13, 2011 12:17 pm

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 3):
Fantastic news for Boeing and Emirates.

Indeed. Emirates keeps on going placing amazing orders.  .
 
5MillionMiler
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RE: Emirates Order 50 777-300ERs Plus 20 Options

Sun Nov 13, 2011 12:17 pm

Any more LRs? They need a few to handle SYD and BNE nonstops... the 77W is weight restricted (or has been when I flew it, adding delays while they off-loaded cargo) both directions (even eastbound due to temperature last time for me).

Anyway, the 77W is a fantastic performer and proof it is here to stay for a while. Qantas management probably still won't admit it though...
 
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EK413
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RE: Emirates Order 50 777-300ERs Plus 20 Options

Sun Nov 13, 2011 12:43 pm

Quoting 5MillionMiler (Reply 5):
Qantas management probably still won't admit it though...

They will never admit it...

EK413
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seabosdca
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RE: Emirates Order 50 777-300ERs Plus 20 Options

Sun Nov 13, 2011 12:45 pm

I have a hard time imagining that EK will take this many of the current product. I have a feeling some of these orders may eventually be converted to whatever updated 777 Boeing decides to launch.

Quoting 5MillionMiler (Reply 5):
Any more LRs? They need a few to handle SYD and BNE nonstops... the 77W is weight restricted (or has been when I flew it, adding delays while they off-loaded cargo) both directions (even eastbound due to temperature last time for me).

Lately they seem to be indicating that a 77W is a better economic performer than a 77L, even with some restrictions.
 
qf002
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RE: Emirates Order 50 777-300ERs Plus 20 Options

Sun Nov 13, 2011 12:46 pm

Quoting 5MillionMiler (Reply 5):
They need a few to handle SYD and BNE nonstops... the 77W is weight restricted (or has been when I flew it, adding delays while they off-loaded cargo) both directions (even eastbound due to temperature last time for me).

They still make more money carrying the extra pax... They have LR's that they could use into the East Coast if they wanted (ie double daily 77L into PER, which could be handled by the A332), but it's 77W's all the way...

Quoting EK413 (Reply 6):
Quoting 5MillionMiler (Reply 5):
Qantas management probably still won't admit it though...

They will never admit it...

Geoff Dixon did... And tbh it's in the past now and not worth thinking about.
 
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BoeingVista
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RE: Emirates Order 50 777-300ERs Plus 20 Options

Sun Nov 13, 2011 12:53 pm

Is Emirates planning to be the worlds only airline? 90 77W and 90 A380 on order is just ridiculous.

Well done to Boeing for getting the order but their seat count is going to seriously distort the airline market.
BV
 
PC9
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RE: Emirates Order 50 777-300ERs Plus 20 Options

Sun Nov 13, 2011 12:58 pm

Congrats to Boeing. 1st delivery in 2015 is pretty close to 2017 when the A350-1000 should become available.
Apparently Clark voiced concerns about the A350-1000 and said they might take more A350-900 instead.

It wouldn't surprise me if Airbus is forced to change the A350-1000 again...
 
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EK413
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RE: Emirates Order 50 777-300ERs Plus 20 Options

Sun Nov 13, 2011 1:08 pm

Quoting qf002 (Reply 8):
Geoff Dixon did... And tbh it's in the past now and not worth thinking about.

Can only keep on dreaming...

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 9):
Is Emirates planning to be the worlds only airline? 90 77W and 90 A380 on order is just ridiculous.

Yes... That's the plan by the looks of it... Helps when $$$ isn't an issue...

EK413
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BoeingVista
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RE: Emirates Order 50 777-300ERs Plus 20 Options

Sun Nov 13, 2011 1:18 pm

Quoting PC9 (Reply 10):
It wouldn't surprise me if Airbus is forced to change the A350-1000 again...

As was noted from a now missing thread RR have found more power from the Trent XWB, it makes sense for me to stretch it to take on the 77W in seat count.
BV
 
PC9
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RE: Emirates Order 50 777-300ERs Plus 20 Options

Sun Nov 13, 2011 1:24 pm

ok, thanks. I missed that.
How much more power did they find?
 
Burkhard
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RE: Emirates Order 50 777-300ERs Plus 20 Options

Sun Nov 13, 2011 1:30 pm

I ask myself where they want to fly them, because they have used up most of their traffic rights already now and will have to bribe media and polticians to get more by "public pressure".
 
G500
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RE: Emirates Order 50 777-300ERs Plus 20 Options

Sun Nov 13, 2011 2:24 pm

I have a feeling Boeing will "rock the house" with the 777 and 737max. They will struggle to sell 787s and 747-800s....

just my opinion
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Emirates Order 50 777-300ERs Plus 20 Options

Sun Nov 13, 2011 2:39 pm

I think EK bought the 77W's for two reasons:

1. The airline still can't get any straight answers from Airbus on the A350-1000. Meanwhile, the 77W has demonstrated 7,800 nautical mile still-air range, which means most of the world's major destinations are within reach of DXB and the upcoming Al Maktoum International Airport (DWC).

2. Because the Indian government has effectively banned the A380 from Indian airspace, the 77W's will be used on routes from various Indian cities to DXB as a substitute.
 
A388
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RE: Emirates Order 50 777-300ERs Plus 20 Options

Sun Nov 13, 2011 2:40 pm

What caused QF to not like or want the 777? The aircraft has clearly proven itself worldwide.

A388
 
incitatus
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RE: Emirates Order 50 777-300ERs Plus 20 Options

Sun Nov 13, 2011 2:52 pm

Quoting g500 (Reply 15):
I have a feeling Boeing will "rock the house" with the 777 and 737max. They will struggle to sell 787s and 747-800s....

just my opinion

Can you susbstantiate your opinion on the 787? It has greater range and is larger than today's 767-300, which was wildely popular. It is also more recent technology. Once Boeing is able to leave the project delays behind and ramp up production, more orders will come in.
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Vimanav
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RE: Emirates Order 50 777-300ERs Plus 20 Options

Sun Nov 13, 2011 2:52 pm

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 16):
Because the Indian government has effectively banned the A380 from Indian airspace, the 77W's will be used on routes from various Indian cities to DXB as a substitute.

As on date, Emirates does not have ANY capacity available in the bilaterals to expand operations to India. The best they can do under the present bilaterals is probably upgrade one flight to HYD or AMD from a lower configured A330 to a higher density one, but absolutely nothing more unless they decide to reduce frequencies (not going to happen!).

Having said that, EK's eventual expansion in India is not a question of "if" but "when" no matter how hard the CAG roars.

brgds//Vimanav
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Qatara340
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RE: Emirates Order 50 777-300ERs Plus 20 Options

Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:05 pm

Guys, EK has 27 A332s + 10 A345 + 10 A343 that HAVE TO BE REPLACED = 47 JETS that are getting too old/less efficient in EK standards. There are a bunch of 772 (non ERs) and 773 that have to go also. So, the order is a replacement one mainly.
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chiad
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RE: Emirates Order 50 777-300ERs Plus 20 Options

Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:07 pm

Congratulation to Boeing.
This order has a magnitude that it's hard to imagine.
The list price of the B777-300ER stand at US$298.3 million.
So this order could be worth up to US$14.9 billion, plus another US$6 billion in options.
Of Course EK wont pay anything near list prices, but spares and services would come in addition.

[Edited 2011-11-13 07:23:30]
 
SpeckSpot
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RE: Emirates Order 50 777-300ERs Plus 20 Options

Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:16 pm

Hope this isn't off topic, but what are some of the improvements that Boeing has planned for the 77W, and will they just be slipped into the current model number, or will they actually announce a formal new model?
 
JAAlbert
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RE: Emirates Order 50 777-300ERs Plus 20 Options

Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:19 pm

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 20):
Guys, EK has 27 A332s + 10 A345 + 10 A343 that HAVE TO BE REPLACED = 47 JETS that are getting too old/less efficient in EK standards. There are a bunch of 772 (non ERs) and 773 that have to go also. So, the order is a replacement one mainly.

If this is so (and I don't doubt you) what will this do to the second hand market? If these planes are replaced quickly it seems the market will be flooded with 330s, 340s and 772 and 773s. Who'll take all these jets?
 
G500
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RE: Emirates Order 50 777-300ERs Plus 20 Options

Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:25 pm

Quoting incitatus (Reply 18):
Can you susbstantiate your opinion on the 787?

No, I can't substantiate my opinion, after all it is just my opinion. If every one that comments on this forum had to substantiate theirs, well........

Its way too early to tell but I just don't think the 787 will ever match the success of the 777 , that's all.
 
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BoeingVista
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RE: Emirates Order 50 777-300ERs Plus 20 Options

Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:27 pm

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 16):

1. The airline still can't get any straight answers from Airbus on the A350-1000.

Clarke got a straight answer from Airbus, he just didn't like the answer.
BV
 
WarpSpeed
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RE: Emirates Order 50 777-300ERs Plus 20 Options

Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:39 pm

Quoting g500 (Reply 15):
They will struggle to sell 787s

Do you mean sell additional 787's? Boeing has nearly 800 on firm order. It also has a bright future with some airlines pushing for a 787-10 variant that is said to have very compelling economics.
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rutankrd
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RE: Emirates Order 50 777-300ERs Plus 20 Options

Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:02 pm

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 23):
If this is so (and I don't doubt you) what will this do to the second hand market? If these planes are replaced quickly it seems the market will be flooded with 330s, 340s and 772 and 773s. Who'll take all these jets?

Some of the 332s may remain for some time (They are especially useful for route development and for some of the African markets), the 340 models can easily be replaced by the 77W - subject to seating arrangements -as the A340s are currently business heavy

The 4 regional 772 (A) aircraft are some of the oldest and time maxed in the world . These will almost certainly be broken up rather than sold on, The remaining 5 772er models may be around for some time yet they are also deployed on business heavy but cargo light routes in the main.

The 773 aircraft again currently business heavy will most certainly be removed - Most of the 773 routes are actually earmarked for A388 upgrades.

Some and most of the existing and this new order will be for building up a further daily bank in the hub me thinks (From 3 to 4).
I would expect to see the likes of Heathrow (subject to slot acquisition grow from 5 to 7 daily) Manchester up to 5 daily
Additional US and a market yet to be taped China for instance.

Differing matter
The Indian government need to stop interfering directly in day to day Airline operations because the nation CAN NOT
support three international players and having one still state owned !
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Emirates Order 50 777-300ERs Plus 20 Options

Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:05 pm

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 25):
Clarke got a straight answer from Airbus, he just didn't like the answer.

The problem with the A350-1000 as it now stands is that Airbus claims it has the same carrying capacity and range as the 77W but with lower MTOW and needing only 95,000 lb. thrust from the Trent XWB engines. Alas, the CEO of Emirates doesn't believe that, nor do most professionals in the airline industry.
 
flyby519
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RE: Emirates Order 50 777-300ERs Plus 20 Options

Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:08 pm

Wow, what a huge order, congrats to EK!

Can anyone point me to a list of current EK fleet numbers and orders/options? I cant keep up with all their growth!

I found this on wiki, but dont know how accurate it is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emirates_airline#Fleet

[Edited 2011-11-13 08:29:37]
 
ACES320
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RE: Emirates Order 50 777-300ERs Plus 20 Options

Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:29 pm

Quoting PC9 (Reply 10):
It wouldn't surprise me if Airbus is forced to change the A350-1000 again...

I would take this as a warning bell for Airbus. The total combined orders for the A350 from the Gulf Carriers are a high chunk of the overall percentage of sales, the A350-1000 (read quote below) may be a great machine with enhanced capabilities than the current 77W but that is simply not enough for EK, QR and they have been very vocal about it.

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 28):
The problem with the A350-1000 as it now stands is that Airbus claims it has the same carrying capacity and range as the 77W but with lower MTOW and needing only 95,000 lb. thrust from the Trent XWB engines. Alas, the CEO of Emirates doesn't believe that, nor do most professionals in the airline industry.

The problem was not much performance as it was commonality. In Clark's own words he placed order for the A350 with variants but he ended up with two different machines after the latest round of modifications on the A350-1000
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BoeingVista
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RE: Emirates Order 50 777-300ERs Plus 20 Options

Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:31 pm

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 28):
The problem with the A350-1000 as it now stands is that Airbus claims it has the same carrying capacity and range as the 77W but with lower MTOW and needing only 95,000 lb. thrust from the Trent XWB engines. Alas, the CEO of Emirates doesn't believe that, nor do most professionals in the airline industry.

They have a problem believing that a design in 2010 made out of cf can be better that the same thing designed in 1990 made out of alu?

That makes no sense.
BV
 
Vimanav
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RE: Emirates Order 50 777-300ERs Plus 20 Options

Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:49 pm

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 28):
Differing matter
The Indian government need to stop interfering directly in day to day Airline operations because the nation CAN NOT
support three international players and having one still state owned !

I take the liberty to digress for a moment from the main topic to comment on the above:

Absolutely right on the need for the Indian Government's need to stop sticking their noses into Airline day to day operations but completely off the mark when you say that the nation CAN NOT support three international players...

Here's why:

Indian population : 1.25 billion
Indian middle class and higher i.e. those that can afford to buy 1 or more air tickets per annum: 200 million
Current annual travel: approx 140 million of which 80-90% are repeat travellers.
So actual travelers: under 20 million
And when the remaining 180 million get fed up of what they are missing... you will see a mini-revolution of sorts the likes of which you will not see anywhere else.

This has to happen... if you look how our successive brain-dead pro-socialist governments for the past 60 years have stifled peoples aspirations and yet when each bastion fell (state owned TV, state owned telephones, restricted access for foreign car manufacturers) - the response has been so overwhelming that India has shot to the top 5 globally in terms of usage of all the above products - TV channels, Cars, mobile phones to name a few. Likewise I am willing to bet my last recently devalued INR that both Boeing and Airbus are way way off the mark when they predict that India will require about 1000 aircraft until 2020. 5000 will be a more accurate figure...

brgds//Vimanav
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rutankrd
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RE: Emirates Order 50 777-300ERs Plus 20 Options

Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:59 pm

Quoting Vimanav (Reply 32):
I take the liberty to digress for a moment from the main topic to comment on the above:

Absolutely right on the need for the Indian Government's need to stop sticking their noses into Airline day to day operations but completely off the mark when you say that the nation CAN NOT support three international players...

Here's why:

Indian population : 1.25 billion
Indian middle class and higher i.e. those that can afford to buy 1 or more air tickets per annum: 200 million
Current annual travel: approx 140 million of which 80-90% are repeat travellers.
So actual travelers: under 20 million
And when the remaining 180 million get fed up of what they are missing... you will see a mini-revolution of sorts the likes of which you will not see anywhere else.

This has to happen... if you look how our successive brain-dead pro-socialist governments for the past 60 years have stifled peoples aspirations and yet when each bastion fell (state owned TV, state owned telephones, restricted access for foreign car manufacturers) - the response has been so overwhelming that India has shot to the top 5 globally in terms of usage of all the above products - TV channels, Cars, mobile phones to name a few. Likewise I am willing to bet my last recently devalued INR that both Boeing and Airbus are way way off the mark when they predict that India will require about 1000 aircraft until 2020. 5000 will be a more accurate figure...


This is a debate in and of its self i'll open a separate thread
 
The777Man
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RE: Emirates Order 50 777-300ERs Plus 20 Options

Sun Nov 13, 2011 5:06 pm

Wow! Amazing order!

I can see the 343s going first for EK and then 332s.

Also remember that the 350 just got delayed by Airbus and could suffer further delays. The 777-300?ER is available NOW not in four or five years.

Quoting PC9 (Reply 10):
Apparently Clark voiced concerns about the A350-1000 and said they might take more A350-900 instead.

Perhaps EK will even cancel the A350-1000 ? They had A340-600s on order that they cancelled. The A350 is still a "paper? airplane since it hasn't flown yet.

Again, great news for the 777 program!

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EPA001
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RE: Emirates Order 50 777-300ERs Plus 20 Options

Sun Nov 13, 2011 5:08 pm

Quoting The777Man (Reply 34):
The 777-300?ER is available NOW not in four or five years.

I assume there is a waiting list for the B77W, especially since it has been selling so well lately. And EK still had outstanding B77W-orders. So these newly ordered B77W's are probably going to be delivered in 4-5 years or so.  .
 
mffoda
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RE: Emirates Order 50 777-300ERs Plus 20 Options

Sun Nov 13, 2011 5:21 pm

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 35):
So these newly ordered B77W's are probably going to be delivered in 4-5 years or so.

Delivers for these A/C are scheduled between 2015/17.
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DfwRevolution
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RE: Emirates Order 50 777-300ERs Plus 20 Options

Sun Nov 13, 2011 5:25 pm

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 31):
They have a problem believing that a design in 2010 made out of cf can be better that the same thing designed in 1990 made out of alu?

That makes no sense.

It's a given that Airbus could develop a better airplane than the 77W today. The question is how much better. What is likely giving customers pause is the magnitude by which Airbus is reducing thrust and MTOW. Has technology progressed enough since design freeze of the 77W in 2001 (and the PiPs since then) that Airbus can offer the same performance with 20% less thrust and 13% less MTOW? Tim Clarke is probably saying "Missouri."
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Stitch
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RE: Emirates Order 50 777-300ERs Plus 20 Options

Sun Nov 13, 2011 5:27 pm

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 35):
I assume there is a waiting list for the B77W, especially since it has been selling so well lately.

Which is why Boeing is moving to 100 deliveries per year.  

Including this order, the 777 backlog is a bit over 400 planes. Boeing will deliver around 85 next year, and then transition into just under 100 in 2013. So EK should have their last 777-300ER delivered between 12-18 months before their first A350-1000 under the current Airbus production schedule, though Boeing's Jim Albaugh yesterday said that the A350-900 EIS delay may have a knock-on effect to the planned 2017 EIS of the A350-1000 and that Boeing feels they can sell more 777-300ERs because of customer uncertainty on the A350-1000's EIS.  
 
roseflyer
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RE: Emirates Order 50 777-300ERs Plus 20 Options

Sun Nov 13, 2011 5:53 pm

Quoting SpeckSpot (Reply 22):
Hope this isn't off topic, but what are some of the improvements that Boeing has planned for the 77W, and will they just be slipped into the current model number, or will they actually announce a formal new model?

Boeing does continuous improvements to the designs of the 737 and 777. There are significant engineering teams working to reduce production cost and improve performance. It often gets missed since improvements come out with a simple press release if at all that is often overlooked.

Something like a new wing or other changes would get more fanfare, but nothing out there has been announced.
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turjo101
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RE: Emirates Order 50 777-300ERs Plus 20 Options

Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:15 pm

wow; what a massive order...can you imagine if these 50 or even a portion of these aircrafts were 748i s. Actually would that not have made more sense given the ban on their A380s in India? I am sure this has been discussed, but can anyone briefly go over why Emirates hasn't considered 748i s. What if they went with all Economy config in main deck and first and business on upper deck. I mean it would have roughly the same # of economy seats as an A388, but less F and J seats; which could work on the South Asian routes where the load factor of F and J seats would be lower.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Emirates Order 50 777-300ERs Plus 20 Options

Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:20 pm

Quoting turjo101 (Reply 40):
I am sure this has been discussed, but can anyone briefly go over why Emirates hasn't considered 748i s.

The 77W and A388 seem to be better fits for them in terms of overall operating economics.
 
ghifty
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RE: Emirates Order 50 777-300ERs Plus 20 Options

Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:41 pm

Wow! 50! This year seems to be the year of ground-breaking orders and launches. As someone above posted, is it possible that these orders for "777-300ER" might just be a placeholder for EK to jump onto the 777NG if/when it is launched?
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Ronaldo747
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RE: Emirates Order 50 777-300ERs Plus 20 Options

Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:44 pm

I'm going as far as to say that there will no A350-1000 for Emirates. They will convert all the orders to the -900. Or, they will even cancel it. It seems that there are lots of uncertainties about the A350 performance.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Emirates Order 50 777-300ERs Plus 20 Options

Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:45 pm

Quoting ghifty (Reply 42):
As someone above posted, is it possible that these orders for "777-300ER" might just be a placeholder for EK to jump onto the 777NG if/when it is launched?

Unlikely, as EK have said they expect all of the frames delivered by 2017 and Boeing is still talking 2018 or 2019 for the 777-8 and 777-9.
 
ghifty
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RE: Emirates Order 50 777-300ERs Plus 20 Options

Sun Nov 13, 2011 9:19 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 44):
Unlikely, as EK have said they expect all of the frames delivered by 2017 and Boeing is still talking 2018 or 2019 for the 777-8 and 777-9.

Thanks, forgot all about the timeline.
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frigatebird
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RE: Emirates Order 50 777-300ERs Plus 20 Options

Sun Nov 13, 2011 9:43 pm

Amazingly, the 777 gets its biggest order ever when its more efficent competitor (the A350) gets nearer to reality, a situation we've seen earlier with A330 vs 787.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 38):
Boeing's Jim Albaugh yesterday said that the A350-900 EIS delay may have a knock-on effect to the planned 2017 EIS of the A350-1000 and that Boeing feels they can sell more 777-300ERs because of customer uncertainty on the A350-1000's EIS.

Pretty sure the A35J's delay has everything to do with this order. And maybe the A359's recent delay as well.

Quoting Ronaldo747 (Reply 43):
I'm going as far as to say that there will no A350-1000 for Emirates. They will convert all the orders to the -900. Or, they will even cancel it.

If Boeing officially launches the 777NG, yes. Because Boeing will only launch the 777-8/9 with EK amongst the launch customers. Then they might not need an A35J any more, and have a fleet consisting just A359's, 77W/777NG and A388/9. But they won't cancel the -1000 outright, more likely convert them to A380's.
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RE: Emirates Order 50 777-300ERs Plus 20 Options

Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:45 pm

Quoting The777Man (Reply 34):
The 777-300?ER is available NOW not in four or five years.
Quoting EPA001 (Reply 35):
I assume there is a waiting list for the B77W

To be exact, there's a long waiting list for B777s period. We've asked Boeing what delivery they could offer on 77Fs, and was told best case is around 3 years from date of order. With this latest filling of shopping basket by EK, fair guess is you can bolt another 6-9 months on the back of that, and that makes it as good as 4 years.
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RE: Emirates Order 50 777-300ERs Plus 20 Options

Sun Nov 13, 2011 11:00 pm

It seems my analysis over 1 month ago was pretty correct: Emirates Ready For More? (by scbriml Sep 28 2011 in Civil Aviation)
I estimated an order for 25-30 77W for delivery in 2015-2017, the recent A350 delays were not yet announced back then. The delay in the A350 program and slower ramp up than projected, made that number rise by ±20, seems plausible.
If Airbus announces more delays in the A350 program, I guess the options for 20 77W will be firmed up rather quickly.

Just to recap EK's future fleet changes: 77A, 77E, 773 and A343 aircraft will all be replaced by 77W by 2015. The A332's will be gradually replaced when the A359 starts coming in. The only odd aircraft in the EK fleet will then be 10 A345 and 10 77L, I think they'll go as soon as their lease period ends.

By end of 2017 EK fleet will look something like this (imo): 80+ A380, 140-150 B77W, possibly 0-10 77L (depends on lease contracts), ±15 A350-900 and hopefully a couple of -1000's too.

About this 50 77W order, those aircraft will mainly be used for expansion, maybe a few for replacement of early 77W, but definitely not a lot.

Congrats to Boeing and Emirates!
 
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RE: Emirates Order 50 777-300ERs Plus 20 Options

Sun Nov 13, 2011 11:11 pm

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 4):
Any more LRs? They need a few to handle SYD and BNE nonstops... the 77W is weight restricted (or has been when I flew it, adding delays while they off-loaded cargo) both directions (even eastbound due to temperature last time for me).

I'm sure that they could switch some, but I don't think they would. Even with a payload hit the 77W will still make more money for them.

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 16):
1. The airline still can't get any straight answers from Airbus on the A350-1000.

They got the changes they wanted, it will just take time and cost them some commonality.

Quoting SpeckSpot (Reply 22):
Hope this isn't off topic, but what are some of the improvements that Boeing has planned for the 77W, and will they just be slipped into the current model number, or will they actually announce a formal new model?

I think that Boeing should roll whatever improvements they can into the current model to keep it selling and then design a clean sheet replacement around the GE9x and an evolution of the Trent XWB to enter service around 2022-2024. That would only be six years at most after the 777-8/9 could have entered service and seven after the A350-1000. The 77W as currently constituted will likely continue selling in significant numbers up to 2016 or so at least. After that, Boeing can still see plenty of sales based on freighters, price, and availability at which time the 787 production should be moving right along anyway.

A 777NG would have to rely in large part on a higher seat count to bring its CASM to near parity with the A350. That might be okay for Emirates and Cathay, but it will make it basically a nonstarter for a lot of other customers. Beyond that, a new airplane could cover that same size territory in larger variants anyway. With the A350 being pushed a couple years further off the current 777 will be fine for a while and the timeframe for a major upgrade has been pushed outside of the time when the 787 and 737 MAX will be commanding considerable resources.

Quoting ACES320 (Reply 30):
The problem was not much performance as it was commonality. In Clark's own words he placed order for the A350 with variants but he ended up with two different machines after the latest round of modifications on the A350-1000

If the A350-1000 does what Airbus says it can do, it won't make that much of a difference.

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 46):
Because Boeing will only launch the 777-8/9 with EK amongst the launch customers.

The 777-8/9 won't appeal to that many airlines besides Emirates. But I don't think that would keep airlines, including Emirates, from ordering A350-1000s. I would expect to see a lot of airlines with just A350s, some with both, but very few with only 777s.
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