taichen
Topic Author
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Airlines That Fly/flew Between Europe And Oceania

Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:28 pm

After reading this thread BA/QF Divide Up UK OZ Flights (by Babybus Nov 13 2011 in Civil Aviation)

I came up with this question : Which airlines, if any, are still flying between Europe and Australia ? I think only BA on the European side and QF on the other one, am I right ?

If we speak about New Zeland, I think there is only Air NZ left , and it even dropped Frankfurt some years ago...

I still remember the times when BA, AF, Alitalia, Lauda/Austrian, Olympic (!), JAT (!!), Lufthansa , probably Aeroflot (not sure, but quite feasible), KLM all had Australian services. Am I missing any airline, on both sides ?

This is one great example where airline alliances actually work, IMHO, but of course it is sad to see all these airlines drop the ultra long haul destinations alltogether.
 
deconz
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RE: Airlines That Fly/flew Between Europe And Oceania

Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:32 pm

Quoting taichen (Thread starter):
I think only BA on the European side

VS have a daily service to SYD via HKG
 
goldorak
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RE: Airlines That Fly/flew Between Europe And Oceania

Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:05 pm

AF flies several times a week to PPT and they flew until 2003 to NOU. Now NOU service is ensured through SB code-share via NRT, KIX or ICN.
 
1stfl94
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RE: Airlines That Fly/flew Between Europe And Oceania

Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:11 pm

Quoting taichen (Thread starter):
I still remember the times when BA, AF, Alitalia, Lauda/Austrian, Olympic (!), JAT (!!), Lufthansa , probably Aeroflot (not sure, but quite feasible), KLM all had Australian services. Am I missing any airline, on both sides ?

AF inherited their Oz routes from UTA in 1991/1992, I think Balkan Bulgarian tried for a few years in the 90s with A310s as well. Britannia used to have charter flights with 767s which operated up until around 2005.
 
Bluebird191
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RE: Airlines That Fly/flew Between Europe And Oceania

Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:12 pm

Transaero even had a fortnightly service for a while fairly recently. If you are thinking of same plane
service its only QF, NZ, BA and VS atm. Other airlines currently offering service but not same plane are CX, SQ, EK, TG, MH, SA, JL, KE, OZ, CZ, MU, CA, AC, EY, UA, CO, BR, TN, CI, LA, AR, D7, Air Mauritius and Air Austral. Yes some take the long way by going via the Americas but some still fly to Oceania and Europe.
 
Gemuser
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RE: Airlines That Fly/flew Between Europe And Oceania

Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:32 pm

Quoting taichen (Thread starter):

I still remember the times when BA, AF, Alitalia, Lauda/Austrian, Olympic (!), JAT (!!), Lufthansa , probably Aeroflot (not sure, but quite feasible), KLM all had Australian services. Am I missing any airline, on both sides ?

I can't think of any other European airlines, BUT you do have a problem in defining what is meant by served the route. As Bluebird191 points out in reply 4 many airlines offer connecting service. There were some services that are a bit of a grey shade. An example is AI services to Australia & Fiji in the 50?/60/70s. The aircraft flew through from London to Sydney/Nandi with a flight number change in MAA, BUT not a connection, it was same plane service. MSA (Malaysia Singapore Airlines, predecessor of both SQ & MH) did something similar in SIN, just adding an "A" to the LHR-SIN flight number. AI stopped Australian service and MSA split and the services became connections.

Also SK wanted to extend their CPH-Tashkent-BKK services to SYD but never got permission. SR & SU also wanted to serve Australia but also never got permission.

Gemuser
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sydaircargo
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RE: Airlines That Fly/flew Between Europe And Oceania

Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:01 am

Cargolux just came back doing SYD-LAX-ORD-LUX

but that is Cargo only no PAX , on the PAX side its only BA & VS as european carrier

QF still has the LHR & FRA routes.

everybody else goes via a HUB on route.
 
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MillwallSean
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RE: Airlines That Fly/flew Between Europe And Oceania

Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:40 am

Quoting deconz (Reply 1):
AF flies several times a week to PPT and they flew until 2003 to NOU. Now NOU service is ensured through SB code-share via NRT, KIX or ICN.
Quoting sydaircargo (Reply 6):

but that is Cargo only no PAX , on the PAX side its only BA & VS as european carrier

QF still has the LHR & FRA routes.

everybody else goes via a HUB on route.

As been mentioned before AF flies to Oceania as well.
BA and VS flies to Sydney. AF to Papetee, somehow many Australians forget about the other parts of Oceania.
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taichen
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RE: Airlines That Fly/flew Between Europe And Oceania

Tue Nov 15, 2011 7:24 am

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 7):

As been mentioned before AF flies to Oceania as well.

OK, my fault. When I started the post, I wrote "that fly/flew to AUSTRALIA". Then I added NZ and changed it to "Oceania", Of course I forgot about other islands. I suppose the main reason to keep flying to PPT is the French national pride, even if there is tourist traffic.

Quoting sydaircargo (Reply 6):
Cargolux just came back doing SYD-LAX-ORD-LUX

I was thinking of pax operations, but it is good to know.

Quoting gemuser (Reply 5):
I can't think of any other European airlines, BUT you do have a problem in defining what is meant by served the route.

Well, I don't really think it is ME who has a problem, but anyhow, for clarification purposes : by "serving the route" I meant DIRECT flights between both regions. 1 stop or multistop flights are OK, if they involve a change of planes we are moving in the sloppish side BUT as long as the flight number does not change, it is a valid direct flight.

As for the Air India flight : I am sure there was some transit formalities at MAA, even if through passengers were flying on the same plane. Air India was flying both to Europe and Australia/Fiji, but it was not a direct flight between London and Sidney, am I wrong ?

while I do appreciate the info provided, this post was NOT intended to be about "airlines flying to both Europe and Oceania" ... but again, is good to know.
 
mainMAN
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RE: Airlines That Fly/flew Between Europe And Oceania

Tue Nov 15, 2011 7:43 am

Quoting taichen (Thread starter):
probably Aeroflot (not sure, but quite feasible), KLM all had Australian services. Am I missing any airline, on both sides ?

I don't ever remember SU flying to Australia or Oceania.

Quoting 1stfl94 (Reply 3):
Britannia used to have charter flights with 767s which operated up until around 2005.

Britannia and Airtours both operated from LON and MAN.
 
EBGflyer
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RE: Airlines That Fly/flew Between Europe And Oceania

Tue Nov 15, 2011 8:08 am

Austrian/Lauda Air also flew to Sydney with 777's.
Future flights: CPH-BOS; CPH-SVG; CPH-PVG-HKG-MNL-DVO; CPH-CDG; CPH-NRT; CPH-MIA; CPH-PVG
 
TreeHillRavens
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RE: Airlines That Fly/flew Between Europe And Oceania

Tue Nov 15, 2011 8:39 am

Quoting EBGflyer (Reply 10):
Austrian/Lauda Air also flew to Sydney with 777's.

Yes. They did and it was via KUL. They also suspended KUL when they stopped flying to KUL. Austrian/Lauda used to offer some crazy fares between KUL/SYD. What a shame  
 
FlySSC
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RE: Airlines That Fly/flew Between Europe And Oceania

Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:43 am

Quoting 1stfl94 (Reply 3):
AF inherited their Oz routes from UTA in 1991/1992, I think Balkan Bulgarian tried for a few years in the 90s with A310s as well. Britannia used to have charter flights with 767s which operated up until around 2005.

BALKAN never operated the A310. They operated 2 B767-200er bought from Air France in 1992.
 
flyingalex
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RE: Airlines That Fly/flew Between Europe And Oceania

Tue Nov 15, 2011 10:06 am

In addition to AF, TN also fly PPT-CDG on a same-plane service via LAX.

So to summarise what has been said above, there are six carriers currently offering scheduled same-plane service from Europe to Oceania:

QF
NZ
BA
VS
AF
TN

Former players:

Lufthansa
Lauda/Austrian
KLM
JAT
UTA
Balkan Bulgarian
Britannia (charters)
Airtours (charters)

Also MSA and Air India, depending on whether you want to count those semi-direct flights mentioned above or not.


In addition, TK have expressed interest in starting a route to Oz, supposedly via CGK.
Public service announcement: "It's" = "it is". To indicate posession, write "its." Looks wrong, but it's correct grammar!
 
FlySSC
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RE: Airlines That Fly/flew Between Europe And Oceania

Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:39 pm

Quoting taichen (Reply 8):

Would you say that the only reason IB flies to the Canary Islands is Spanish national pride ?

Just like Noumea and New Caledonia, Tahiti is a French territory, located in the French Polynesia.
 
TWA902fly
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RE: Airlines That Fly/flew Between Europe And Oceania

Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:58 pm

Quoting mainMAN (Reply 9):
I don't ever remember SU flying to Australia or Oceania.

They sure did. It was both A310 and IL62 service in the 1990s, and I don't think it lasted long. I believe the service operated via SGN, but I am not sure.

Also...

Quoting flyingalex (Reply 13):
So to summarise what has been said above, there are six carriers currently offering scheduled same-plane service from Europe to Oceania:

QF
NZ
BA
VS
AF
TN

You (all) are missing AIR AUSTRAL, which flies same-plane CDG-RUN-SYD-NOU (flights UU771/772) once a week.

'902
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taichen
Topic Author
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RE: Airlines That Fly/flew Between Europe And Oceania

Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:19 pm

Quoting flyingalex (Reply 13):
So to summarise what has been said above

Thanks a lot !!

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 14):
Would you say that the only reason IB flies to the Canary Islands is Spanish national pride ?

Just like Noumea and New Caledonia, Tahiti is a French territory, located in the French Polynesia.

I won't enter a pointless political flame here. When IB was all about political pride, there were plans to link ALL former Spanish colonies to Spain. The Philippines, however were never an Iberia destination, just because it was an ultra long flight with not enough revenue. IB is withdrawing many Spanish domestic destinations, and almost all international flights that do not originate from Madrid. So I would not dare say IB is anything about Spanish national pride, currently. Another example was the TAP flight to Macau, which was indeed all about national pride, despite Macau being part of the Portuguese territory at the time.

Just being part of the French territory is not enough, on the other side. Saint Pierre & Miquelon are not served from Paris by Air France.
 
AirGAbon
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RE: Airlines That Fly/flew Between Europe And Oceania

Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:58 pm

Quoting taichen (Reply 16):
Just being part of the French territory is not enough, on the other side. Saint Pierre & Miquelon are not served from Paris by Air France.

I totally agree. Neither Wallis and Futuna, not served from Paris.

At the opposite, now direct flights have started between Paris and Mayotte in the Indian Ocean (even UU bought a 777LR to be able to use the short runway).
 
qf002
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RE: Airlines That Fly/flew Between Europe And Oceania

Tue Nov 15, 2011 2:30 pm

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 15):
You (all) are missing AIR AUSTRAL, which flies same-plane CDG-RUN-SYD-NOU (flights UU771/772) once a week.

I was going to be clever and point that out. While it's not really a Europe-Australiasia flight, it certainly is a direct flight from Europe to Australia (though there is often a change of aircraft in RUN from a report I read ages ago...)
 
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AirPacific747
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RE: Airlines That Fly/flew Between Europe And Oceania

Tue Nov 15, 2011 3:45 pm

Quoting goldorak (Reply 2):
AF flies several times a week to PPT and they flew until 2003 to NOU. Now NOU service is ensured through SB code-share via NRT, KIX or ICN.

I remember that I saw an AF A340 on Noumea on a holiday there back in 2001. Would love to have tried that route.
 
The777Man
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RE: Airlines That Fly/flew Between Europe And Oceania

Tue Nov 15, 2011 4:05 pm

Quoting taichen (Reply 16):
Just being part of the French territory is not enough, on the other side. Saint Pierre & Miquelon are not served from Paris by Air France.



There's also enough TRAFFIC because of this to warrant a flight by Air France. Not sure why you bring St Pierre & Miquelon in to the picture.

I guess that's not enough ?  

The777Man
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GolfBravoRomeo
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RE: Airlines That Fly/flew Between Europe And Oceania

Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:24 pm

Any info on the LH service? Years active, equipment and routing.
 
taichen
Topic Author
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RE: Airlines That Fly/flew Between Europe And Oceania

Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:54 pm

I am positive LH was flying there in the 80's. The LH 1986 timetable shows for example
Sydney - Melbourne- Kuala Lampur-Dubai-Frankfurt, using a 747, flying mondays and saturdays. I don't really know when it stopped flying to Sydney-Melbourbe, but I'd guess shortly after the Star Alliance was born.

Quoting The777Man (Reply 20):
Not sure why you bring St Pierre & Miquelon in to the picture.

Just to bring a counter-example. It was the first one that popped into my mind.  
 
Motorhussy
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RE: Airlines That Fly/flew Between Europe And Oceania

Tue Nov 15, 2011 6:12 pm

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 15):
You (all) are missing AIR AUSTRAL, which flies same-plane CDG-RUN-SYD-NOU (flights UU771/772) once a week.

I think not...

Quoting Bluebird191 (Reply 4):
Transaero even had a fortnightly service for a while fairly recently. If you are thinking of same plane service its only QF, NZ, BA and VS atm. Other airlines currently offering service but not same plane are CX, SQ, EK, TG, MH, SA, JL, KE, OZ, CZ, MU, CA, AC, EY, UA, CO, BR, TN, CI, LA, AR, D7, Air Mauritius and Air Austral. Yes some take the long way by going via the Americas but some still fly to Oceania and Europe.

Regards
MH
come visit the south pacific
 
1stfl94
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RE: Airlines That Fly/flew Between Europe And Oceania

Tue Nov 15, 2011 6:23 pm

Quoting taichen (Reply 22):
I am positive LH was flying there in the 80's. The LH 1986 timetable shows for example
Sydney - Melbourne- Kuala Lampur-Dubai-Frankfurt, using a 747, flying mondays and saturdays. I don't really know when it stopped flying to Sydney-Melbourbe, but I'd guess shortly after the Star Alliance was born

LH ended theirs in 1995. Up till 1994 they flew a 747-400 via KUL or BKK then leased a Condor 767 which used to sometimes stop in Sharjah as well as SIN or BKK. That lasted year until 95, Star Alliance was founded in 1997.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Airlines That Fly/flew Between Europe And Oceania

Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:23 am

Quoting flyingalex (Reply 13):
Former players:

Lufthansa
Lauda/Austrian
KLM
JAT
UTA
Balkan Bulgarian
Britannia (charters)
Airtours (charters)

You're missing Alitalia and Olympic. Both served Australia for many years. Aeroflot and Transaero also served SYD briefly, Aeroflot sometime in the 1990s and Transaero more recently. In both cases I think the service was minimal, something like once a week or every two weeks, but was technically a scheduled service.

[Edited 2011-11-15 16:37:17]
 
Jackbr
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RE: Airlines That Fly/flew Between Europe And Oceania

Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:49 am

Lufthansa started with 707s to SYD in 1965, KLM with DC-8s around the same period.

JAT also used to serve SYD
 
MHTripple7
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RE: Airlines That Fly/flew Between Europe And Oceania

Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:59 am

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 23):
I think not...

Why not?

UU 771 CDG-SYD 20:30-06:05 77L

One flight number with no plane change, seems to fit the criteria to me.
 
Gemuser
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RE: Airlines That Fly/flew Between Europe And Oceania

Wed Nov 16, 2011 4:59 am

Quoting Jackbr (Reply 26):
Lufthansa started with 707s to SYD in 1965, KLM with DC-8s around the same period.

KLM served SYD by 1938! Not with DC-8s obviously, DC-2 & 3s.

Gemuser
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