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sulley
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Intl Markets No Longer Served By Pre-Merger United

Thu Nov 17, 2011 4:53 pm

Lately, I've been doing some research on the histories of both CO and UA. Unfortunately, I've been having some issues with finding a list of international destinations that were discontinued by PMUA. I'm aware of the hub in Miami that was drawn down (what a shame), but I'm interested to know what other cities across the globe were eventually cut due to profitability, competition, 9/11, bankruptcy, etc.

So far I know these cities were cut from the network:

Santiago
Montevideo
Lima
Caracas
Delhi


What other large markets were cut and why? Did United have a larger network to Europe/ME at one time?

Any help would be appreciated.
In thrust we trust!
 
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STT757
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RE: Intl Markets No Longer Served By Pre-Merger United

Thu Nov 17, 2011 4:58 pm

Port Of Spain, Grand Cayman, Nagoya, Glasglow, Milan, Athens, Guatemala City, San Jose, San Salvador, Panama City.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
UAL747
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RE: Intl Markets No Longer Served By Pre-Merger United

Thu Nov 17, 2011 4:59 pm

As far as I know, the current Middle East Market is the first time United has gone into that part of the world. The DEL flight was part of their "Around the World" flights 1 and 2 which continued to HKG and in the end, was operated by a 767-300. At least that portion. I think the rest of the flights were operated with a 747-400.

UAL
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BMIFlyer
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RE: Intl Markets No Longer Served By Pre-Merger United

Thu Nov 17, 2011 5:18 pm

Terminated intl destinations.....

Bahamas – Nassau
Brazil – Belo Horizonte
Canada – Halifax, Montréal, Ottawa
Chile – Santiago
Colombia – Bogota
Costa Rica – San José
El Salvador – San Salvador
Guatemala – Guatemala City
Mexico – Guadalajara, Ixtapa/Zihuatanejo
Panama – Panama City
Trinidad and Tobago – Port of Spain
United States Virgin Islands - St. Thomas
Uruguay – Montevideo
Venezuela – Caracas


India – Delhi
Japan – Nagoya
Philippines – Manila
Vietnam - Ho Chi Minh City


France – Nice
Germany – Berlin, Düsseldorf, Hamburg
Greece – Athens
Italy – Milan
Spain – Madrid
United Kingdom – Manchester


Australia – Brisbane
New Zealand – Auckland
Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
 
point2point
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RE: Intl Markets No Longer Served By Pre-Merger United

Thu Nov 17, 2011 5:27 pm

Quoting Sulley (Thread starter):
What other large markets were cut and why? Did United have a larger network to Europe/ME at one time?
Quoting BMIFlyer (Reply 3):
Terminated intl destinations.....

Bahamas – Nassau
Brazil – Belo Horizonte
Canada – Halifax, Montréal, Ottawa
Chile – Santiago
Colombia – Bogota
Costa Rica – San José
El Salvador – San Salvador
Guatemala – Guatemala City
Mexico – Guadalajara, Ixtapa/Zihuatanejo
Panama – Panama City
Trinidad and Tobago – Port of Spain
United States Virgin Islands - St. Thomas
Uruguay – Montevideo
Venezuela – Caracas


India – Delhi
Japan – Nagoya
Philippines – Manila
Vietnam - Ho Chi Minh City


France – Nice
Germany – Berlin, Düsseldorf, Hamburg
Greece – Athens
Italy – Milan
Spain – Madrid
United Kingdom – Manchester


Australia – Brisbane
New Zealand – Auckland

I think that a lot of these are served by *A partners, some even with revenue sharing such as LH with the German cities, and NH in Japan. Why would UA want to use their own costly metal in foreign places, when they can get a revenue sharing partner, or *A partner to do such?
 
UAL777UK
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RE: Intl Markets No Longer Served By Pre-Merger United

Thu Nov 17, 2011 5:52 pm

Quoting BMIFlyer (Reply 3):
United Kingdom – Manchester

UA never served MAN. BD did it with a code share with UA.
 
joemac547
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RE: Intl Markets No Longer Served By Pre-Merger United

Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:01 pm

Quoting point2point (Reply 4):
India – Delhi
Japan – Nagoya
Philippines – Manila
Vietnam - Ho Chi Minh City

Ho Chi Minh City is still served through Hong Kong
Also, although technically not an international destination, you might add Saipan and Guam to destinations no longer served.
 
United1
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RE: Intl Markets No Longer Served By Pre-Merger United

Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:05 pm

Quoting BMIFlyer (Reply 3):
France – Nice

When did UA fly to NCE? GLA is missing from your list of discontinued cities in Europe.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
BMIFlyer
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RE: Intl Markets No Longer Served By Pre-Merger United

Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:45 pm

Quoting United1 (Reply 7):
When did UA fly to NCE? GLA is missing from your list of discontinued cities in Europe.

My mistake - it turns out it was actually a Pan Am route.
Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
 
ordbosewr
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RE: Intl Markets No Longer Served By Pre-Merger United

Thu Nov 17, 2011 7:02 pm

Is this really fair?

I mean a couple of these have been 'transfered' from PMUA to PMCO planes. Some of them will come back when they combine back into UA again.... STT is one to name easily.
 
jfk777
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RE: Intl Markets No Longer Served By Pre-Merger United

Thu Nov 17, 2011 7:04 pm

Quoting BMIFlyer (Reply 3):
Colombia – Bogota

When did pre-merger United fly to Colombia ? Never.

Continental has from IAH and EWR.
 
BMIFlyer
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RE: Intl Markets No Longer Served By Pre-Merger United

Thu Nov 17, 2011 7:11 pm

Quoting joemac547 (Reply 6):
Ho Chi Minh City is still served through Hong Kong

If I can be picky (sorry!), the UA route map shows SGN as being only served by "Continental". The pre-merger UA did stop the route completely in October.
Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
 
United1
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RE: Intl Markets No Longer Served By Pre-Merger United

Thu Nov 17, 2011 7:15 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 10):
When did pre-merger United fly to Colombia ? Never.

via MIA IIRC.

Quoting BMIFlyer (Reply 11):
If I can be picky (sorry!), the UA route map shows SGN as being only served by "Continental". The pre-merger UA did stop the route completely in October.

They did shift from PMUA to PMCO metal but for all intents and purposes that was post merger United...PMUA did indeed fly to SGN.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
warden145
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RE: Intl Markets No Longer Served By Pre-Merger United

Thu Nov 17, 2011 7:21 pm

When did UA terminate service to NGO? I remember seeing flights from NGO coming into SFO...I didn't think it was all that long ago, but my memory could be failing me yet again   
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Zkpilot
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RE: Intl Markets No Longer Served By Pre-Merger United

Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:25 pm

Also UA used to operate LAX-HNL-AKL before the direct LAX-AKL
Also CO used to serve AKL.
After the merger they will be serving it again with 788

[Edited 2011-11-17 13:37:52]
64 types. 45 countries. 24 airlines.
 
klwright69
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RE: Intl Markets No Longer Served By Pre-Merger United

Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:33 pm

Umm... Nope. UA never served Colombia. In 1994, CO competed for Colombia access against UA. CO won. PMUA never reattempted to enter the market either. Never served Colombia. Nope. Never did.

If they did serve Colombia, then give us the startup and termination dates.

PMUA did serve Caracas and Lima. They never served Colombia, or Ecuador.
 
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IrishAyes
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RE: Intl Markets No Longer Served By Pre-Merger United

Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:38 pm

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 2):
As far as I know, the current Middle East Market is the first time United has gone into that part of the world. The DEL flight was part of their "Around the World" flights 1 and 2 which continued to HKG and in the end, was operated by a 767-300. At least that portion. I think the rest of the flights were operated with a 747-400.

IIRC, the DEL flight originated in Heathrow and flew through DEL to HKG, both ways. It was operated on a DC-10 and 767-300 for a few years, then stopped alltogether around 1997/1998. It DID actually resume in Summer 2001 with a 747-400 on both legs, but it was cut altogether a brief period later just post 9/11.
 
United1
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RE: Intl Markets No Longer Served By Pre-Merger United

Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:42 pm

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 15):
Umm... Nope. UA never served Colombia. In 1994, CO competed for Colombia access against UA. CO won. PMUA never reattempted to enter the market either. Never served Colombia. Nope. Never did.

You may actually be right I did a bit of research and PA, at the end at least, did not fly MIA-BOG so that route would not have transferred over to UA when they picked up PAs LatAm routes.

Quoting warden145 (Reply 13):

When did UA terminate service to NGO? I remember seeing flights from NGO coming into SFO...I didn't think it was all that long ago, but my memory could be failing me yet again   

2005-2008
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
klwright69
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RE: Intl Markets No Longer Served By Pre-Merger United

Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:50 pm

Quoting United1 (Reply 17):
Quoting klwright69 (Reply 15):
Umm... Nope. UA never served Colombia. In 1994, CO competed for Colombia access against UA. CO won. PMUA never reattempted to enter the market either. Never served Colombia. Nope. Never did.

You may actually be right I did a bit of research and PA, at the end at least, did not fly MIA-BOG so that route would not have transferred over to UA when they picked up PAs LatAm routes.

Yup, I know what I am talking about...I remember how it was amazing CO got Colombia access when they were in their 2nd BK.
 
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STT757
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RE: Intl Markets No Longer Served By Pre-Merger United

Thu Nov 17, 2011 10:41 pm

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 18):
.I remember how it was amazing CO got Colombia access when they were in their 2nd BK.
Quoting klwright69 (Reply 15):
Umm... Nope. UA never served Colombia. In 1994, CO competed for Colombia access against UA. CO won

In 1994 CO flew IAH-SJO-Barranquilla 3x weekly, IAH-SJO-Cali 4x weekly. Both with 727s.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
sulley
Topic Author
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RE: Intl Markets No Longer Served By Pre-Merger United

Thu Nov 17, 2011 10:57 pm

CO needs to bring Cali back. An IAH-Maracaibo service would be nice too.
In thrust we trust!
 
warden145
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RE: Intl Markets No Longer Served By Pre-Merger United

Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:08 am

Quoting United1 (Reply 17):
2005-2008

Thanks!  
ETOPS = Engine Turns Off, Passengers Swim
 
United1
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RE: Intl Markets No Longer Served By Pre-Merger United

Fri Nov 18, 2011 3:07 am

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 16):
IRC, the DEL flight originated in Heathrow and flew through DEL to HKG, both ways. It was operated on a DC-10 and 767-300 for a few years,

DEL was served as part of UAs Round the World Service UA1/2 routed LAX-HKG-DEL-LHR-EWR/IAD-LAX and the reverse. I don't ever remember the DC-10 being on the route but LHR-DEL-HKG was flown by both the 744 and 763 at times. Just prior to 9/11 UA started selling seats on a 744 operated ORD-DEL that was cut before it started.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
UAL777UK
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RE: Intl Markets No Longer Served By Pre-Merger United

Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:07 am

Quoting BMIFlyer (Reply 11):
If I can be picky (sorry!), the UA route map shows SGN as being only served by "Continental". The pre-merger UA did stop the route completely in October.

Again being picky, thats because its gone from a 744 UA to a 738 CO, making better utilization of the fleet. If the merger had not happened you would most likely see a UA 744 still on the route.
 
klwright69
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RE: Intl Markets No Longer Served By Pre-Merger United

Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:57 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 19):
Quoting klwright69 (Reply 18):
.I remember how it was amazing CO got Colombia access when they were in their 2nd BK.
Quoting klwright69 (Reply 15):
Umm... Nope. UA never served Colombia. In 1994, CO competed for Colombia access against UA. CO won

In 1994 CO flew IAH-SJO-Barranquilla 3x weekly, IAH-SJO-Cali 4x weekly. Both with 727s.

Yes, I remember this clearly also! I wanted to travel on these flights to Colombia, but the first legs to Costa Rica were too full. CO was also flying nonstop to BOG, and that is the flight i ended up taking.. In fact, that is why the DOT awarded rights to Colombia to CO and not UA since CO was going to serve 3 cities in Colombia, and UA was only going to serve one, BOG. Yes, I remember all this.
 
klwright69
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RE: Intl Markets No Longer Served By Pre-Merger United

Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:00 pm

I have an old timetable from CO out of either the late 70's or early 80's, and i believe it shows CO serving Maracaibo. I can't look at it now cause my old timetable collection is in the States and I am now in Saudi Arabia. But I think they did at one time.
 
ourboeing
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RE: Intl Markets No Longer Served By Pre-Merger United

Fri Nov 18, 2011 3:10 pm

I hope they won't cut Delhi and Mumbai again as those two are definitely high revenue generating flights for CO. I have flown the Delhi sector a couple of times and apart from bad service in the cabin, I absolutely enjoyed he non-stop flight on a nice CO 777.

OURBOEING
 
nascarnut
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RE: Intl Markets No Longer Served By Pre-Merger United

Fri Nov 18, 2011 3:20 pm

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 14):
Also CO used to serve AKL.

CO used to operate folowing in the early 90's
LAX-PPT-AKL
LAX-HNL-AKL-BNE
LAX-HNL-AKL-MEL
SFO-HNL-SYD-AKL
HNL-CNS-BNE-HNL
HNL-MEL
GUM-BNE-SYD

In the 80's they also served
HNL-PPG-AKL
HNL-NAN-SYD
HNL-PPG-SYD
HNL-NAN-MEL

The 90's with DC10-30 and 747-100/200 aircraft and the 80's with the old DC10-10
 
tommy767
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RE: Intl Markets No Longer Served By Pre-Merger United

Fri Nov 18, 2011 3:24 pm

I'd like to say that BOTH UA and CO gave up on SCL some years ago and they need to get back there. I think an IAH-SCL is almost a given for 2012, even if it's on a 762.

Quoting Sulley (Reply 20):
CO needs to bring Cali back. An IAH-Maracaibo service would be nice too.

Check.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 19):
In 1994 CO flew IAH-SJO-Barranquilla 3x weekly, IAH-SJO-Cali 4x weekly. Both with 727s.

Could they do this again with 757s? Would it be profitable?
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COEWR787
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RE: Intl Markets No Longer Served By Pre-Merger United

Fri Nov 18, 2011 3:25 pm

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 2):
The DEL flight was part of their "Around the World" flights 1 and 2 which continued to HKG and in the end, was operated by a 767-300. At least that portion. I think the rest of the flights were operated with a 747-400.

My recollection is that in the first round of service to DEL it was a LHR - DEL - HKG on 763. Don't recall a DC-10 but that does not mean tat there may not have been a period when such was used. During the first round EWR - LHR was 777 and HKG - LAX was 744. Don't recall what was used on LAX - EWR, since I never flew that leg.

In the second round DEL was supposed to be served by 744, and I have heard that it might have just started in 2001. But it disappeared after 9/11.

I agree with others that the EWR -DEL/BOM nonstop is a much better service than the hassle of transiting through LHR back then.
 
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STT757
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RE: Intl Markets No Longer Served By Pre-Merger United

Fri Nov 18, 2011 3:30 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 28):
Could they do this again with 757s? Would it be profitable?

They already did, CO brought back Cali as a 73G nonstop from IAH. It operated for a couple years then was dropped in favor of a second daily IAH-BOG. With Avianca now with Star Alliance Cali will be back, this time though probably from EWR with an onward connection to Medellin. New Jersey (particularly North Bergen and the Bradely Beach area) have huge Colombian populations. Avianca used to fly a daily 757 EWR-CLO-MDE, I can see UA bringing operating that route.

Avianca at EWR:


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Photo © Vasco Garcia

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UAL777UK
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RE: Intl Markets No Longer Served By Pre-Merger United

Fri Nov 18, 2011 3:44 pm

Quoting COEWR787 (Reply 29):
My recollection is that in the first round of service to DEL it was a LHR - DEL - HKG on 763. Don't recall a DC-10 but that does not mean tat there may not have been a period when such was used.

Your right, it was a 767, never was a DC10 used on that route, period. Flew that route many occasion in F. The food in F in those days was great with the Indian choice.

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