5 Additional A330's For Hawaiian

HAL · Thu Nov 17, 2011 4:54 pm

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Hawaii...ore-prnews-2913547562.html?x=0&l=1

So much better news than the 'rumor' in an earlier thread. Since this news quashes the rumor (of cancelling A330 orders), it deserves it's own thread.

I'm sad to see my ride of the last decade (763) slowly leaving the fleet, but I am looking forward to fying the big Airbus soon (and visiting New York too).

HAL

BMIFlyer · Thu Nov 17, 2011 4:59 pm

I absolutely LOVE the A330 in the HA livery !! One heck of a great looking bird

Jean Leloup · Thu Nov 17, 2011 5:05 pm

I'm curious about the continued preference for 332, over 333. I would have thought with recent improvements, the 333 would have sufficient range for routes to the mainland, with better earning potential. Or is that just too much of a jump up in capacity?

JL

SKAirbus · Thu Nov 17, 2011 5:17 pm

Would be nice to see HAL coming to Europe ... maybe via JFK or ORD?

Could be another airline for LGW to chase!

Apart from my dreams congrats to Airbus and Hawaiian for this deal and

to whoever spread the cancellation rumours!

something · Thu Nov 17, 2011 5:30 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 3):
Would be nice to see HAL coming to Europe ... maybe via JFK or ORD?

When HA took delivery of their first A330, their CEO said something along the lines of ''the A330 will allow us to open new routes to the East Coast of the United States and to Europe''. If he was just saying that in jest to pander to the Euro-crowd in TLS, I can't say. But I'd sure love to see it happen.

The HA A330 is one of those airplane/livery combinations I would have dreamed of, but never thought to ever actually see. For me, it's way up there with the hottest airplanes in the sky right now. Way up.

Congratulations to Hawaiian, Airbus and every spotter to this new order

aloha73g · Thu Nov 17, 2011 5:40 pm

Its awesome to HA doing so well!! As an Aloha Airlines fan, nothing makes me smile more than to see so much good news from HA since April 2008.

Quoting something (Reply 4):
When HA took delivery of their first A330, their CEO said something along the lines of ''the A330 will allow us to open new routes to the East Coast of the United States and to Europe''. If he was just saying that in jest to pander to the Euro-crowd in TLS, I can't say. But I'd sure love to see it happen.

The Europe comments were in reference to the A350, not the A330. The press release from today mentions that the A350 will HA to serve any sizable source of tourists in the world.

Quoting HAL (Thread starter):
but I am looking forward to fying the big Airbus soon (and visiting New York too).

Are you going to be based in HNL again or are they basing A330 pilots in SEA??

Aloha!

scbriml · Thu Nov 17, 2011 5:52 pm

Quoting BMIFlyer (Reply 1):
I absolutely LOVE the A330 in the HA livery !! One heck of a great looking bird

It certainly is!

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Steve Brimley

something · Thu Nov 17, 2011 5:57 pm

Quoting aloha73g (Reply 5):

Quoting something (Reply 4):
When HA took delivery of their first A330, their CEO said something along the lines of ''the A330 will allow us to open new routes to the East Coast of the United States and to Europe''. If he was just saying that in jest to pander to the Euro-crowd in TLS, I can't say. But I'd sure love to see it happen.

The Europe comments were in reference to the A350, not the A330. The press release from today mentions that the A350 will HA to serve any sizable source of tourists in the world.

That may very well be. HNL-LGW is 7263nm according to the GCM, Airbus has the maximum range for the A332 at 7230nm. So maybe with extra tanks and/or weight restrictions it could make it, but it would in either way be a very expensive flight and thus unlikely to happen.

Unless VX steps in, I guess we'll have to wait for a few more years.

Joost · Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:18 pm

Quoting something (Reply 7):
That may very well be. HNL-LGW is 7263nm according to the GCM, Airbus has the maximum range for the A332 at 7230nm. So maybe with extra tanks and/or weight restrictions it could make it, but it would in either way be a very expensive flight and thus unlikely to happen.

Additional fuel tanks on a A330-200 are completely useless, as the aircraft is MTOW-limited for practically any point on it's payload / range-chart (vs fuel-limited).

There is not 'one' single range figure for any aircraft. Typically, the number published on the websites of the manufacturers (and Wikipedia, etc), is range at full typical pax load (+bags), at the highest MTOW-figure. But most of the time, these published figures are without any additional belly cargo. In the real world, there are few commercial scheduled flights without belly cargo.

The 332 has an enormous fuel capacity, a result from using the same center fuel tank as the 343. When fueled up completely, it has a range of over 9000nm - but zero payload.

HAL · Thu Nov 17, 2011 7:47 pm

Quoting aloha73g (Reply 5):
Are you going to be based in HNL again or are they basing A330 pilots in SEA??

I'm moving over to the left seat of the A330, HNL based. I'll be seeing JFK, NRT, LAX, LAS, & SFO soon now!

HAL

328JET · Thu Nov 17, 2011 7:54 pm

I wonder what 22 ordered A330s mean for the A350-order from HAL...?

aloha73g · Thu Nov 17, 2011 7:56 pm

Quoting HAL (Reply 9):
I'm moving over to the left seat of the A330, HNL based. I'll be seeing JFK, NRT, LAX, LAS, & SFO soon now!

Very cool! Congratulations on your "move"....guess you'll be commuting again.

-Aloha!

airbazar · Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:06 pm

Quoting 328JET (Reply 10):
I wonder what 22 ordered A330s mean for the A350-order from HAL...?

It probably means they won't be getting them. Airbus is doing everything they can to move A358 customers to the A359 so they can cancel the A358. 5+3 A332's sounds very much like the 8 A358 orders. So perhaps the earlier reported rumor was partly true. They just got the airplane type wrong

DeltaMD90 · Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:08 pm

Quoting HAL (Thread starter):
5 Additional A330's For Hawaiian

You're saying the mechanics were wrong?!

mariner · Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:12 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 12):
It probably means they won't be getting them.

Hmmm? From the linked article in the OP:

"Hawaiian's A330 deliveries between 2013 and 2015 will provide, in part, for the retirement of 10 Boeing 767-300 aircraft over approximately the same period as the company continues its progressive transition to a new fleet of A330s and A350XWB-800 (Extra Wide-Body) aircraft for its North America and international service."

In the NYT article I linked in the other "rumor" thread, Mr, Dunkerley said he was aware of the push to the 900, but - at the moment - he felt the 800 was the right aircraft for them.

mariner

cmb56 · Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:39 pm

Just a comment on the previous thread and the potential maintenance issues that HA may be having with the A330. For an airline maintenance department that previously was exclusively Boeing to take on the A330 can be a higher than expected hurdle. From personal experience there are simply a lot of folks out there that feel "If it ain't Boeing it ain't going". Getting used to and accepting the A330 after many years of working B767s is much harder than you may believe and most of it is in attitude and familiarity with the systems and the aircraft. The two aircraft are way different under the skin. Pilots are paid to fly airplanes and mechanics are paid to fix them, it shouldn't matter what brand but it does.

solnabo · Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:52 pm

Quoting cmb56 (Reply 15):
From personal experience there are simply a lot of folks out there that feel "If it ain't Boeing it ain't going"

Mostly on A.net I guess

aloha73g · Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:53 pm

Quoting cmb56 (Reply 15):
previously was exclusively

Though HA hasn't operated any Airbii until recently, they were exclusively NON-Boeing until about 10 years ago. Prior to the 767 they operated DC-10s, L1011s and DC8s. The 717 (aka MD95) was preceeded by DC9s and MD80s.

I wouldn't really put HA up there with "loyal" Boeing customers like WN, DL or CO.

-Aloha!

[Edited 2011-11-17 13:30:54]

DesertFlyer · Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:54 pm

Quoting cmb56 (Reply 15):
"If it ain't Boeing it ain't going"

On the contrary, I've never met a single person who thought this.

catiii · Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:55 pm

So to clarify, this means 22 confirmed A330's for HA, with options on 4 more?

solnabo · Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:55 pm

Ohh...and a big congrats to Hawaiian & Airbus

Cheers

ba319-131 · Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:10 pm

Quoting HAL (Reply 9):
I'm moving over to the left seat of the A330

- Congrats, great to have you sat in the L/H seat on this great bird!

Cheers

Mark

HALFA · Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:30 pm

Quoting catiii (Reply 19):
So to clarify, this means 22 confirmed A330's for HA, with options on 4 more?

If I am reading the news release from Hawaiian Airlines correctly, it states that HA will have firm commitments on 22 A330's with options on 3 more, not 4.

http://investor.hawaiianairlines.com...-newsArticle&ID=1631515&highlight=

The other interesting comment from this news release worth noting is that it states "Additional new services are expected to be announced in the coming months". And both the USA Today and Wall Street Journal reported in yesterday's articles that all major cities on the US East Coast were on HA's list of future expansion candidates. Might we see Boston and Washington soon?

And to HAL, congratulations on your upgrade! Looking forward to flying to New York with you next year!

Aloha,
HALFA

RWA380 · Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:37 pm

Once again HA shows how it's done. Congrats to HA for the new birds & new destination (JFK), Who is going to handle ground at JFK?

aztrainer · Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:47 pm

I am wondering with all of the added traffic (rumored or planned) to the east coast and Europe, would HA establish another "hub" on the mainland? They have a presence all up and down the cost as well as PHX and LAS, so it would allow for some more flexibility without stretching themselves too thin. Since most heavy MX is done at MSP, could this be a logical place to add a hub and then they could rotate the planes through as needed.

Quoting HAL (Reply 9):
I'm moving over to the left seat of the A330, HNL based. I'll be seeing JFK, NRT, LAX, LAS, & SFO soon now!

HAL

Congratulations..... I too love the 767, but would love to get a ride on the 330 before 2015 from PHX.

HNLPointShoot · Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:39 am

Quoting aztrainer (Reply 24):
I am wondering with all of the added traffic (rumored or planned) to the east coast and Europe, would HA establish another "hub" on the mainland?

HA's business is focused on flying people to/from Hawaii. How would a hub on the mainland benefit them as opposed to investing that time and money on more flights to Asia (and direct service to Europe when the A350s enter service)?

BoeingVista · Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:02 am

Quoting HAL (Thread starter):
So much better news than the 'rumor' in an earlier thread. Since this news quashes the rumor (of cancelling A330 orders), it deserves it's own thread.

Yep, the cancellation rumour was just bizarre and went against all of Dunkerleys statements but many were happy to believe it. Was waiting for you to post some kind of informed rebuttal as you are on the coalface so to speak but your CEO killed it with Mr Leahy, can you give us another 5...

HA seems to be travelling well clearly the right decision for them was to go A332.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 12):
It probably means they won't be getting them. Airbus is doing everything they can to move A358 customers to the A359 so they can cancel the A358.

Boom! And another baseless rumour is off and running...

Quoting HAL (Reply 9):
I'm moving over to the left seat of the A330, HNL based. I'll be seeing JFK, NRT, LAX, LAS, & SFO soon now!

HAL

Congratulations, hang on in there and you will see LGW and FRA in an XWB

airbazar · Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:12 am

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 26):

Boom! And another baseless rumour is off and running...

That is not a baseless rumor. There has been plenty of talk about this.

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/gener...Intention%20To%20Cancel%20A350-800
Leahy insisted that Airbus will keep the A350-800. “We have absolutely no intention to drop the A350-800,” he said. The type’s entry-into-service date has moved to 2016 with several customers having converted orders to larger versions. “As we are ramping up production, it is more profitable for us to shift to the 900, but we will keep the -800.”

He can keep saying it (he has to), but the fact is that they keep pushing EIS further away and are slowly converting customers to the -900.

MoltenRock · Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:20 am

Quoting HAL (Thread starter):
So much better news than the 'rumor' in an earlier thread. Since this news quashes the rumor (of cancelling A330 orders), it deserves it's own thread.

I had to laugh about that myself. The thread "claiming" HA was unhappy with their A330 and were going to ditch them in favor of the B763 used market was already laughable, but today's news couldn't possibly come at a better time. It shows just how discredited those "mechanical reps" are. They're putzs, without a clue. LOL!!!

As to the topic, good on HA for this new order! The A330 is a great aircraft, and darned near perfect for HA's route structure.

MoltenRock · Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:25 am

Quoting 328JET (Reply 10):
I wonder what 22 ordered A330s mean for the A350-order from HAL...?

It means nothing. The A350 compliments their fleet, not complicates it. The A350 will allow them to open direct Euro to Hawaii flights, garnering $200 to $2,000 per seat premiums depending on class, for flying non-stop, vs. the 1 stop or multi-stop routes HA's competitors will be offering. HA really has a great operation, and have figured out a very reliable, cost effective, fleet.

DeltaMD90 · Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:30 am

Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 29):
Euro to Hawaii flights,

Is there much of a market for this? I mean Hawaii is big in the US and Japan, but I thought it was off the beaten path for Europeans who have other destinations much closer

HNLPointShoot · Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:50 am

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 30):
Is there much of a market for this? I mean Hawaii is big in the US and Japan, but I thought it was off the beaten path for Europeans who have other destinations much closer

HA is apparently betting that providing direct Europe-Hawaii service will stimulate additional demand that currently doesn't exist, in addition to attracting existing passengers by providing a more convenient service.

mariner · Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:56 am

Quoting airbazar (Reply 27):
That is not a baseless rumor. There has been plenty of talk about this.

But this was covered in the other rumor thread, the linked article, an interview with Mr, Dunkerley. He directly addressed the issue:

http://www.aviationbrief.com/?p=3823

"There is some uncertainty surrounding Airbus’s commitment to its smallest A350 variant and several customers have already switched orders to the -900 variant, but Dunkerley reiterates Hawaiian’s commitment to the -800, saying the airline believes the aircraft still meets its needs. He does not, however, rule out the -900. “Time moves on, we will be refreshing that analysis to see if that’s [the -800] best for us… [but] I don’t think it will be soon, it’s not pressing,” Dunkerley says.

You can pretty much guarantee that if stays coy, Airbus will sweeten the pot for the 900 - if they do, in fact, want that.

mariner

[Edited 2011-11-17 19:39:38]

BoeingVista · Fri Nov 18, 2011 3:36 am

Quoting airbazar (Reply 27):
Leahy insisted that Airbus will keep the A350-800. “We have absolutely no intention to drop the A350-800,” he said. The type’s entry-into-service date has moved to 2016 with several customers having converted orders to larger versions. “As we are ramping up production, it is more profitable for us to shift to the 900, but we will keep the -800.”

Leahy categorically says no, we are not cancelling the -800 which would make you insisting that they are cancelling the -800 a baseless rumour, unless you have a source higher up or with more weight within Airbus than JL.

[Edited 2011-11-17 20:18:25]

KLAXAirport · Fri Nov 18, 2011 3:42 am

Does this mean a new first class for HA? Sorry to say it but HA does not have a good first class at all!

Cheers
KLAXAirport

hiloboy1 · Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:08 am

Congrats Hawaiian and a huge Congrats to HAL on his promotion!

scbriml · Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:20 am

Quoting airbazar (Reply 27):
He can keep saying it (he has to), but the fact is that they keep pushing EIS further away and are slowly converting customers to the -900.

Please provide one shred of evidence that Airbus is pushing -800 customers to the -900.

BobMUC · Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:57 am

This means some additional training hours for the mechanics to be better prepared for more As!?

HAL · Fri Nov 18, 2011 7:39 am

Quoting KLAXAirport (Reply 34):
Sorry to say it but HA does not have a good first class at all!

Remember, if everyone had a first class like SQ or EK, every airline would go broke. Hawaiian is a niche carrier, aimed at people who don't want the cattle-car experience of other airilnes going to Hawaii, but who won't pay multi-thousand dollar fares either. No, there's not a lie-flat bed, or a shower, or other extra long-haul niceties. But they do get a lot of positive comments from their passengers. It's the right product, at the right price - especially considering it's mostly a leisure market. I suppose you can complain all you want. Looking at a combination of HA's profits, growth, and top-tier passenger satisfaction says you are wrong.

HAL

tullamarine · Fri Nov 18, 2011 7:53 am

Maybe Airbus have given them the extra A330s for free to apease their displeasure in the current fleet's under-performance.

col · Fri Nov 18, 2011 8:03 am

I am happy to see that this order reflects the true facts within HA, as the previous topic on HA disliking the 332 may have been a bit off target.

Quoting HAL (Reply 38):
But they do get a lot of positive comments from their passengers. It's the right product, at the right price

Exactly. Well done to HA, getting some nice comments and reviews as they expand.

jfk777 · Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:37 pm

Quoting something (Reply 4):
When HA took delivery of their first A330, their CEO said something along the lines of ''the A330 will allow us to open new routes to the East Coast of the United States and to Europe''

Hawaiian flying 14 hours to LHR or LGW ? Or 15 to FRA or CDG? I just don't see it. Europeans have lots of closer options, Mauritius, Secheyelles, Barbados, Spain, Cyprus, the Greek Islands and Florida. HA should do a code-share deal for European flights over LAX and SFO.

HA is better off using the A332's range for new destinations in Asia, Hong Kong and Singapore would make good additions to HA's route system.

koruman · Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:10 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 41):
Hawaiian flying 14 hours to LHR or LGW ? Or 15 to FRA or CDG? I just don't see it. Europeans have lots of closer options, Mauritius, Secheyelles,

London to Mauritius is 6,000 miles and London-Hawaii is 7,000 miles. London to the Seychelles will soon be 5,400 miles on Etihad with a connection at Abu Dhabi.

The difference is hardly a dealbreaker - in fact it's barely noticeable.

babybus · Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:20 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 3):
Could be another airline for LGW to chase!

They did fly into LGW quite regularly in the 80s during the holiday peak season.

Flying to Hawaii for a holiday is a bit of a trip, compared to Majorca or Corfu.

johruk · Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:21 pm

Quoting koruman (Reply 42):
London to Mauritius is 6,000 miles and London-Hawaii is 7,000 miles. London to the Seychelles will soon be 5,400 miles on Etihad with a connection at Abu Dhabi.

The difference is hardly a dealbreaker - in fact it's barely noticeable.

And the UK market has been visting to Indian Ocean for years...so with the chance of a direct flight to Hawaii it just gives us somewhere new to visit!

EPA001 · Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:32 pm

Quoting HAL (Reply 9):
Quoting aloha73g (Reply 5):
Are you going to be based in HNL again or are they basing A330 pilots in SEA??

I'm moving over to the left seat of the A330, HNL based. I'll be seeing JFK, NRT, LAX, LAS, & SFO soon now!

Congratulations!

And you make me a bit jealous.

.

Quoting HAL (Thread starter):
So much better news than the 'rumor' in an earlier thread. Since this news quashes the rumor (of cancelling A330 orders), it deserves it's own thread.

Indeed this is so much better news. And does away with all the rubbish rumors we sometimes see here "floating around" on A-net. The A330 is a (very) low maintenance airframe with a worldwide dispatch reliability of over 99%. Making it the most reliable larger bird (or maybe on par with the B777) around.

http://www.airbus.com/fileadmin/medi...advertising/A330-200-passenger.pdf

seabosdca · Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:35 pm

Quoting something (Reply 7):
HNL-LGW is 7263nm

You're using statute miles. It's 6311 nm.

I still am skeptical of any Hawaii-Europe business plan. Hawaii is a low-yielding vacation destination. That will be just as true in Europe as it is in the US. 6000 nm routes -- 13-14 hours flying time -- are awfully long to be profitable at typical fares for a vacation destination.

I think a conversion of those A358s to A332s would be good for both HA and Airbus in the short term. In the long term, as capacity needs grow further, A359s could be warranted -- but to fly to North America and Asia, not Europe.

RayChuang · Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:53 pm

I think HA will use the A330-200 primarily for flights around the Pacific Rim to HNL. Don't be surprised that HA applies for more route authority to other cities in Japan, China, Hong Kong, New Zealand, Vancouver, BC, and other eastern USA cities.

b727fa · Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:57 pm

Quoting DesertFlyer (Reply 18):

Quoting cmb56 (Reply 15):
"If it ain't Boeing it ain't going"

On the contrary, I've never met a single person who thought this.

Really? Wow.

747400sp · Fri Nov 18, 2011 3:41 pm

This is great news!! Yes there was a time back in the 90s,that I did like the A330, but believe it or not it quickly grew on me in the 2000s. I was happily to read that HA was ordering A330s back in 2008, or I believe it was 2008.

Quoting 328JET (Reply 10):

I hope this do not effect the A350 800XWB order. I am looking forward to seeing the larger twin Bus and A330 flying back to back in HA colors.

Who is online

Popular Searches On Airliners.net