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dkramer7
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Are Qantas B767's That Bad?

Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:45 am

Most of the media coverage in Australia refers to the Qantas 767 fleet as aging, but is the fleet really in such a bad way, or is it just media beat up as usual. The same could be argued for the 747 fleet
 
VHSMM
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RE: Are Qantas B767's That Bad?

Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:31 pm

I guess they were bought a while ago, but for the domestic flights they are mostly used for, they are OK.

Better than most planes used on intra-European flights which have very limited IFE.

On a long haul flight they would be tiresome.

Remember they are only as old as their last D check
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lhr380
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RE: Are Qantas B767's That Bad?

Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:37 pm

They are OK!

Flew NRT PER PER BNE BNE SYD on the 76. They are a bit old, but seats were comfy and thats all that matters really. IFE was main screen which took some getting used to but it was ok.
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Gemuser
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RE: Are Qantas B767's That Bad?

Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:08 pm

I haven't flowen one since Jul09, but they were perfectly acceptable on a SYD-CNS sector. The cabin and my seat in particular were in far better condition than the those on the DL B77L I flew to LAX on, in Jul 10. The seat was a LOT more comfortable and at least it reclined. The cabin looked a lot brighter and more spacious, but that could just be the B763 v B77L. Considering the DL B77L was less than a year old, the 20 year old B763 was perfectly acceptable.

Gemuser
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5MillionMiler
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RE: Are Qantas B767's That Bad?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 12:30 am

I fly on the QF 767s a lot, and I find them quite comfortable for short haul in J or Y. Most have new interiors (seat covers, not overhead bins, etc) and look fine. Seats are comfortable. Prefer them to the smaller 737s -- although I do want to try the new 738 with the AVOD... that looks very nice!

Qantas service is very good on short sectors. Food and free beer/wine after 4PM in coach. They have audio/video IFE of some sort on every flight (even 734s).
 
koruman
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RE: Are Qantas B767's That Bad?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 1:03 am

They are fine for short domestic flights, but absolutely shameful for long international sectors.

I flew back in one in Business Class from Honolulu the week before last.

Let me say at the outset that in Economy Class SYD-HNL that the Qantas 767-300 comes a distant last of the carriers on that route, directly or indirectly.

Both Hawaiian and Air New Zealand also use 763s, but Air NZ has leather seats with AVOD which works from embarkation (not take-off!) to landing, and has gourmet food (Butter Chicken on ceramic crockery). Hawaiian too has a much nicer cabin. Even Jetstar's cabin is nicer - a deliberate act of self-harm by Qantas group management - more of tht later.

In Business Class the gulf is even starker. You would think that Qantas' 1-2-2 configuration provides wider seats than the two competitor's 2-2-2, wouldn't you? Well in fact it has much wider aisles and much wider armrests. But it lacks the AVOD which even Air NZ Economy Class (or Jetstar or Hawaiian Business Class get) and instead has an antique 1990's style looping eight channel system on a screen the size of a cigarette box! The food is vastly inferior and even the bathrooms are austere. The only extra it has over the opposition is the $2 value "pyjamas", which were grudgingly given to me by one of the airline's trademark surly and miserable veteran flight attendants. I must admit that I enjoyed seeing the antique IFE - it reminded me of the two-generations-withdrawn IFE from when I first flew Business Class on Air NZ 15 years ago. And then I used it to drape my iPad over to watch what I wanted to watch. So it basically acts only as a stand for BYO IFE.

But back to the theme of deliberate self-harm. I live on the Gold Coast, where supposedly OOL-SYD (populations 0.6m and 5m) is an all-economy route and needs to be flown by Jetstar, unlike CNS-BNE (0.1m and 2m) or CNS-SYD (0.1m and 5m) which merit a full-service offering. (Did you reply Japanese tourists? So are we going to get Business Class on OOL-CNS then? And is BNE going to lose it as it gets zero Japanese tourists?)

So I am used to Qantas management behaving like a boxer who deliberately throws a fight, deliberately losing so that they can put Jetstar exclusively on a route. Or locking out their customers.

I can recognise deliberate self-harm when I see it. And when Qantas flies an international route to a different continent with its comical 767 fleet, that is exactly what it is doing. Deliberate self-harm.

Deliberate self-harm to massage Jetstar's "profits" at the expense of Qantas, so that it can be spun off and the management can get the $91 million they had expected to receive for the aborted Qantas buy-out.
 
vaus77w
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RE: Are Qantas B767's That Bad?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 1:57 am

I flew one SYD-BNE a while ago and thought it was in better condition than I was expecting (in terms of seat wear and general cabin wear and tear). They are comfortable and perfectly adequate for short domestic flights (lack of decent IFE is no problem IMO).
 
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Zkpilot
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RE: Are Qantas B767's That Bad?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:46 am

QF 763s tend to get a lot more cycles than most operators based on them doing short flights SYD-MEL etc. Their interiors also have not been updated. Other than those 2 things they are in pretty decent shape. QF really should have retrofitted a dozen of them with winglets, and upgraded all the aircraft that haven't yet been retired 2-3 years ago. This is more pronounced by the 787 delays.
64 types. 45 countries. 24 airlines.
 
qf002
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RE: Are Qantas B767's That Bad?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 2:56 am

They look tired and they look very dated. Aside from that, they are safe, 2-3-2 is a great layout for short domestic hops and loads quickly, had new seats installed a few years ago that are pretty good and they get you where you're going in relative comfort. The only other negative is the size of the overheads, especially on SYD-MEL where the planes are full and there are lots of carry ons... But overall, much better than flying on a VA/DJ 738 or a JQ A320, which is the entirety of the competition of QF's 767 routes.

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 7):
QF really should have retrofitted a dozen of them with winglets, and upgraded all the aircraft that haven't yet been retired 2-3 years ago.

I agree. New interiors, seats and winglets would have properly extended the lives of those planes that are only just over a decade old. Doing that to 8-10 of their fleet 2 years ago would have allowed them to actually ride out the 787 delays until 2016-17, when they can bring 788s back from JQ to QF Domestic.
 
sw733
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RE: Are Qantas B767's That Bad?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:10 am

They are fine for short flights. Really, I wouldn't want to spend much time long-haul in them, but I have done several SYD-MEL-SYD legs and they are fine for that. I would compare them to, say, UA or AA domestic 767's in the US...and better than most of BA's 767's that they use inside Europe.

However, if one would compare them to, say, the QF A380 or some of the better 744s, then yeah, they are junk. But that's not a fair comparison.
 
Jackbr
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RE: Are Qantas B767's That Bad?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:17 am

The 767RRs aren't too good, and some of the older 767s are dated - but I love them! I love the early 90s cabin feel (granted they have new seatcovers and many have LCD screens)

The 1-2-2 Business Class is excellent on the Dreamtime 767s for domestic routes, SYD-HNL is pushing it too far though.
 
ben175
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RE: Are Qantas B767's That Bad?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:53 am

Put it this way - it's the product, not the aircraft that is incredibly bad. I actually found the J seats on the 332 (the "new" 2-2-2 configuration which hardly makes a difference in comfort because the seats are rock hard) less comfortable than the 763 J Millenium seats.

I think if QF retrofitted some of the newer birds with winglets, ripped out the seats and put Skybeds and the international economy in, nobody would have a problem with SYD-HNL in 763. But having flown this route many times, lets just say I choose to fly JQ over QF now to Hawaii.
 
qf002
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RE: Are Qantas B767's That Bad?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 4:31 am

Quoting Ben175 (Reply 11):
I think if QF retrofitted some of the newer birds with winglets, ripped out the seats and put Skybeds and the international economy in, nobody would have a problem with SYD-HNL in 763.

Or, maybe they should just hurry up and put an A332 on the route...
 
koruman
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RE: Are Qantas B767's That Bad?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 4:32 am

Again, what sort of airline allows its own LCC subsidiary to outclass it on a major growth route like SYD-HNL, where the key competitor (Hawaiian) is going from 3x weekly to daily?

Something very, very fishy is going on.
 
Air Taiwan
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RE: Are Qantas B767's That Bad?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:06 am

They are trialling using iPad2 as AVOD on VH-OGH at the moment for domestic runs. If the trial is successful then the plan is to implement it to all B767 flights. A very cost effective way to upgrade IFE on older aircraft. AFAIK there will be an iPad2 in every seat pocket in both J and Y cabins.
 
EDICHC
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RE: Are Qantas B767's That Bad?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 6:10 am

Quoting VHSMM (Reply 1):
On a long haul flight they would be tiresome.

I agree with this statement. Been on one once MNL-BNE-SYD and then SYD-CHC, never again (not that CHC sees any QF 763s any more).
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Jackbr
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RE: Are Qantas B767's That Bad?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 6:20 am

Quoting koruman (Reply 13):

Again, what sort of airline allows its own LCC subsidiary to outclass it on a major growth route like SYD-HNL, where the key competitor (Hawaiian) is going from 3x weekly to daily?

Something very, very fishy is going on.

Preach! Joyce at work.
 
macairmetro
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RE: Are Qantas B767's That Bad?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 6:28 am

Quoting qf002 (Reply 12):
Put it this way - it's the product, not the aircraft that is incredibly bad
Quoting koruman (Reply 13):
Something very, very fishy is going on.

To Ben175 & koruman - well put my friends. You express what I feel.

Back in January last year I flew my first ever J sector (on any airline) with QF between MEL - BNE. I was very excited at the prospect and while I very much enjoyed the Business Lounge facilities prior to the flight and found that to be of a high standard and a pleasant experience, what surprised me the most was the bonus 'gift' that would be revealed to me once I had walked the 100 ft down the aerobridge into the cabin of my B767.

Included in the Business Class fare, is time travel; that's right, time travel. QF throw into the price a 20 year walk, back into time and their aerobridges are time machines that take you to a cabin product on the B767 that all QF board members should hang their heads in shame! Why you would polarise your product by inflicting high yield passengers to the dismal IFE on offer with appalling quality screens that drop down from overhead or on the bulkhead. The cabin crew were attentive, as they should be, but I had 2 hours to ponder the product I had purchased. It was a disjointed product and far from seamless from lounge to aircraft cabin as outlined above.

I sat there, envious of the person who was now travelling on a Virgin flight in cattle class, but could pull his/her credit card out and swipe it, and for $10-00 have more channels and entertainment than they knew what to do with. I was now confused and pondered if this product QF was offering was worth the money. Also, if my memory is not failing me, I seem to recall the stainless steel cutlery being 'infected' with the knife being replaced with a cheap and nasty plastic one - that's just all wrong! As I write this, no I wouldn't buy it again. I don't earn a lot of money and on that basis I must state that I am NOT price driven - I will pay more for a flight to have the experience, service, a little luxury. The product sucks at the moment - at least on the 767.

It's been stated that only 15% of Aussies choose to use QF when travelling overseas and that A.J. needs to stem the heavy losses with what he's spoken about. Well, don't blame the travelling public or the fact other airlines do a better job. Look in the mirror and get past the denial and offer me a better product. Once I pay above Y Class, the passenger is there for the journey as much as the destination...

Oh, and on arrival back to BNE, QF were good enough to throw in time travel back to the present when I had reached the end of the aerobridge....Thank goodness for that!

Maybe for my first flight, I bombed out on aircraft type?

 

Footnote: I know many economy passengers are there for the 'journey' too and my comment shouldn't be taken out of context
EOS1D2N, 40D, 400D, 70-200mm2.8L and other stuff...
 
qf002
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RE: Are Qantas B767's That Bad?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 6:53 am

Quoting macairmetro (Reply 17):
To Ben175 & koruman - well put my friends. You express what I feel.

The problem is that QF has tried to migrate traffic to JQ to justify the removal of QF from the route. But their 767s keep going out full regardless of what they do. Even jacking the prices right up and making it a poor experience doesn't seem to push the traffic away.

But they insist on continuing to try, rather than facing the facts that not everyone wants to fly a LCC to a premium tourist destination.
 
macairmetro
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RE: Are Qantas B767's That Bad?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 6:53 am

Quoting Air Taiwan (Reply 14):
They are trialling using iPad2 as AVOD on VH-OGH at the moment for domestic runs. If the trial is successful then the plan is to implement it to all B767 flights. A very cost effective way to upgrade IFE on older aircraft. AFAIK there will be an iPad2 in every seat pocket in both J and Y cabins.

While that's all well and good - and I'm not shooting the messenger (Air Taiwan) - too little, too late! Second rate solution, though I suspect the horse has long bolted and there is few cost effective options now. QF management are not proactive, they are reactive and very slow at that on this area.
EOS1D2N, 40D, 400D, 70-200mm2.8L and other stuff...
 
koruman
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RE: Are Qantas B767's That Bad?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:34 am

Quoting Air Taiwan (Reply 14):
A very cost effective way to upgrade IFE on older aircraft.

Except they haven't done it yet. Every single day long-haul passengers are choosing Qantas, then finding themselves on a 763 with no IFE worthy of the name. If they were trying they could have a job-lot of iPads or DigEplayers on all 763 flights by midweek.

But they're not really trying, are they?

Quoting qf002 (Reply 18):
The problem is that QF has tried to migrate traffic to JQ to justify the removal of QF from the route. But their 767s keep going out full regardless of what they do. Even jacking the prices right up and making it a poor experience doesn't seem to push the traffic away.

Supply of seats from Australia to Hawaii is not keeping up with demand, so they continue to go out full.

But what does it do for sales on other routes? My primary frequent flyer programs are NZ, HA and DJ, in that order. But my recent two long-haul Business Class trips on Qantas just got me up to Silver status without even trying.

But here's the thing. I thought their long-haul product was so poor that it just made me more determined to keep my long-haul loyalty with NZ, DJ and EY.

So that flight went out full. But it made sure that I won't be directing my London and Los Angeles Business Class purchases to Qantas.
 
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RyanairGuru
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RE: Are Qantas B767's That Bad?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:58 am

Quoting koruman (Reply 5):
They are fine for short domestic flights, but absolutely shameful for long international sectors.

I think Koruman has summed the situation up perfectly.

I have flow on 2 QF 767s which just happened to be back-to-back BNE-SYD-HNL.

For the 75 minute flight from BNE to SYD to 767RR was absolutely fine, even if the overhead bins are too small for a prime business route where everybody has a roll-a-board. 10 hours to HNL however was a different matter.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
ben175
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RE: Are Qantas B767's That Bad?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:06 am

The most ridiculous aspect of this whole HNL service is that they wanted to charge me $16,000 return for 2 people SYD-HNL-SYD on two 767 flights (not including my PER connections!). I think that's absolutely criminal.

Oh, and good luck finding FF tickets to Hawaii in July on both QF and JQ. I just pay and deal with StarClass now (I go to HNL every July)
 
koruman
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RE: Are Qantas B767's That Bad?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:51 am

Quoting Ben175 (Reply 22):
Oh, and good luck finding FF tickets to Hawaii in July on both QF and JQ. I just pay and deal with StarClass now (I go to HNL every July)

Air NZ will sell you a lie-flat Business Premier AKL-HNL return on the 77E next June-July for around A$3800. So if you then add a cheap PER-AKL, you have a very comfortable way of flying it compared with Jetstar or Qantas or Hawaiian.

And the points it earns take you 3/4 of the way to Star Gold status.

Problem is, next June-July is the trial period for lie-flat comfort on that route.........
 
vv701
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RE: Are Qantas B767's That Bad?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 4:07 pm

As an aside I note from various listings that the QF 763s have assigned names. For example VH-ZXC is stated to be named "Stanwell Park". However on examining many photos I have failed to identify where the name is painted if, indeed, it is painted on the fuselage at all:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © David Morrell - Avid Creations


Do the QF 763s actually carry these names either externally or internally? If so, where?

Thanks for any help.
 
qf002
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RE: Are Qantas B767's That Bad?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 4:53 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 24):
Do the QF 763s actually carry these names either externally or internally? If so, where?

Some have it printed on the side:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Sarmad Al-Khozaie - Tranquillity Aviation Photography
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Michael Zhang



The International birds all have their names printed near the nose, all Domestic birds do not. This is consistent across the entire Domestic fleet (737s), with the exception of the A332 fleet, strangely.

[Edited 2011-11-20 08:54:14]
 
Viscount724
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RE: Are Qantas B767's That Bad?

Sun Nov 20, 2011 4:58 pm

Quoting koruman (Reply 5):
Both Hawaiian and Air New Zealand also use 763s, but Air NZ has leather seats

Very few carriers use leather seats on their longhaul fleets. I avoid any that do. They're fine on shorthaul (and hard to avoid nowadays) but I hate leather on longhaul flights and that view seems to be shared by 90% of the better carriers.
 
B4REAL
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RE: Are Qantas B767's That Bad?

Mon Nov 21, 2011 5:06 pm

Quoting Ben175 (Reply 11):
Put it this way - it's the product, not the aircraft that is incredibly bad.

That's right, it is how the airline choses to EQUIP the aircraft that is the talking point here. QF can chose to put premium seats in, IFE for every seat, and better pitch, etc. It's up to the cabin equipment spec issued by the operator.
B4REAL, spelled like it sounds & @RickVanover on Twitter
 
n729pa
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RE: Are Qantas B767's That Bad?

Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:02 pm

I've flown on VH-OGO twice this year, MEL-SYD and BNE-SYD 3 months apart and she was OK I thought

Just flew on G-BHZB a BA 763 from STO-LHR on Saturday and she was showing her age......even had old TV screens in the cabin, from the look of them I expected them to be in Black and White too!

The service on them were poles apart too..........but that's a totally different subject

It'll be SAS the next time I go to Stockholm.
 
MEA
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RE: Are Qantas B767's That Bad?

Tue Nov 22, 2011 7:00 am

I fly regularly on QF B767s domestically and internationally and they are probably the worst aircraft in the fleet. There is no IFE, the seats are old, the interiors are old and clearly demonstrate the lack of investment in a consistent product offering.

Yes, it's great to have new lounges, check in facilities, etc... but you hop into one of these things and it feels like your in a time warp and need of a good scrub when you come out.

The worst experience was on a QF flight from SYD to HNL return where you pay a premium to fly on a full service carrier only to receive a no frills product and service offering.

I'll be happy when these birds leave the fleet or receive upgrades...
 
Flyingsottsman
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RE: Are Qantas B767's That Bad?

Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:13 am

Quoting Ben175 (Reply 11):
I think if QF retrofitted some of the newer birds with winglets, ripped out the seats and put Skybeds and the international economy in, nobody would have a problem with SYD-HNL in 763. But having flown this route many times, lets just say I choose to fly JQ over QF now to Hawaii.

Wow ! That is saying something, I think I would rather take QF over JQ to Honolulu, then if I was heading to Honolulu I think I would love to take HA over the both of them.

I thought the A330s were going to be replacing the 763s on this route.

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