AMR Unveils 777-300ER Details

rising · Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:43 pm

http://www.aa.com/i18n/amrcorp/newsr...p?v_locale=en_US&v_mobileUAFlag=AA

"Arranged in a three-class cabin configuration, the new 777-300ER will provide the airline with more passenger and cargo capacity than any other aircraft in its fleet today. Customers will be welcomed into the aircraft by unique mood lighting. American will be the first carrier to use a dramatic archway and ceiling treatment on the 777-300 to create a feeling of spaciousness. A walk-up bar stocked with snacks and refreshments in the premium cabin will be a first for any U.S. airline and adds another unique element of luxury to the 777-300. Entertainment options including up to 120 movies, more than 150 TV programs and more than 350 audio selections will be offered throughout the aircraft. Also, every seat will feature individual 110 volt AC power outlets and USB jacks for charging personal electronic devices."

Looking forward to trying this baby out.

commavia · Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:47 pm

Lie-flat F, lie-flat J (all with aisle access), F/J bar, premium Y, AVOD/AC power/USB throughout.

Good move.

Now it's time to roll all of this (except the bar, probably) back to all the other 777s, 763s and international 757s ...

[Edited 2011-11-30 07:49:43]

1337Delta764 · Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:48 pm

Quoting Rising (Thread starter):
"Arranged in a three-class cabin configuration, the new 777-300ER will provide the airline with more passenger and cargo capacity than any other aircraft in its fleet today. Customers will be welcomed into the aircraft by unique mood lighting. American will be the first carrier to use a dramatic archway and ceiling treatment on the 777-300 to create a feeling of spaciousness. A walk-up bar stocked with snacks and refreshments in the premium cabin will be a first for any U.S. airline and adds another unique element of luxury to the 777-300. Entertainment options including up to 120 movies, more than 150 TV programs and more than 350 audio selections will be offered throughout the aircraft. Also, every seat will feature individual 110 volt AC power outlets and USB jacks for charging personal electronic devices."

Looking forward to trying this baby out.

So, does this mean a 787-style interior for the 777?

Also, it looks like the IFE system is Panasonic, with Eco 9i monitors in Y.

[Edited 2011-11-30 07:50:36]

Lufthansa · Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:50 pm

A good move.

With the Transatlantic joint venture with BA they need fully flat in J. Hopefully a sign of things to come!

jfklganyc · Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:52 pm

I like how business is all normal compared to yesterday's bk filing.

Forget that major event yesterday that will reshape our whole airline...here's a shiny new plane in a nice new configuration for you to smile about

roseflyer · Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:53 pm

Big improvements. Herringbone business class and premium economy are probably the most notable. Great to see a positive press release from AA the day after their bankruptcy announcement.

The press release leaves out what configuration premium and regular economy will be other than getting new seats.

crosswinds21 · Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:53 pm

This is interesting. It also says that there will be a new Flagship Suite in F class and, probably more importantly, lie flat seats in J class with every seat having aisle access. This has been rumoured for a while here on a.net. Also, it states that LHR will be the first market (I don't believe that this has ever been publicly stated...or has it?).

However, one thing that I am really dying to find out (that is not mentioned in the press release) is how many F seats these new planes will have. Many people here, including myself, believe that AA needs to drastically decrease its F cabin because 16 seats is simply too much and most of these seats are either going out empty or filled with nonrevs. It will be interesting to see what AA ultimately decides.

AA787 · Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:57 pm

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 5):
Herringbone business class

I dont think we should assume that they are going with the Herringbone business class. IIRC their partner CX was none too happy with that configuration.

1337Delta764 · Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:02 pm

Quoting aa787 (Reply 7):
I dont think we should assume that they are going with the Herringbone business class. IIRC their partner CX was none too happy with that configuration.

Well, since all Business seats will have direct aisle access, it is safe to assume they will be herringbone considering the cabin width of the 777.

If I could make a wild guess on the model, perhaps I would guess AA might have selected the Weber Cirrus, considering AA has been a longtime Weber customer.

rising · Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:02 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 4):
I like how business is all normal compared to yesterday's bk filing.

Forget that major event yesterday that will reshape our whole airline...here's a shiny new plane in a nice new configuration for you to smile about

Now, more than ever, this is the time to be making improvements. Like all the other airlines that restructured before them, they are not going to stand still or destroy themselves by allowing deteriorating products and services.

The bankruptcy is not American's customer's fault or responsibility. Where companies fail is they begin to make it so. Looking forward to this as well as other exciting improvements down the pike.

commavia · Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:03 pm

Quoting crosswinds21 (Reply 6):
However, one thing that I am really dying to find out (that is not mentioned in the press release) is how many F seats these new planes will have. Many people here, including myself, believe that AA needs to drastically decrease its F cabin because 16 seats is simply too much and most of these seats are either going out empty or filled with nonrevs. It will be interesting to see what AA ultimately decides.

It doesn't say that, although I imagine the configuration is known and will trickle out relatively soon. And I agree that the configuration will almost certainly feature a much smaller F cabin - probably eight, which is a good number for two rows of four F suites across.

FoxBravo · Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:04 pm

Quoting aa787 (Reply 7):

Agreed. I'm hoping for reverse herringbone like CX's new business class and DL's planned new product for their 744s.

AeroWesty · Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:06 pm

This news is a bit frustrating. Lie flat in J, thumbs up. New Flagship Suite, another thumbs up. But while AA has the opportunity to be bold and create a true Premium Economy with an upgraded seat, they go for the extra legroom version instead. And aren't these articulated Y seats the same as the highly despised seats that CX bought and are replacing after only a couple of years? (The last news I could find about that plan was October 2010 on Bloomberg.)

Iloveboeing · Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:18 pm

What I find the most interesting about this news is that they plan to have Wi-Fi throughout the aircraft. That, combined with power ports at every seat, will be a winning combination. A lot of airlines have Wi-Fi now, but not many have power ports at every seat, especially among US carries; this will give AA a competitive advantage. Very wise move.

When is the first 77W scheduled to be delivered to AA? Anyone know the delivery schedule? Thanks!

khpn · Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:26 pm

Quoting iloveboeing (Reply 13):
What I find the most interesting about this news is that they plan to have Wi-Fi throughout the aircraft. That, combined with power ports at every seat, will be a winning combination. A lot of airlines have Wi-Fi now, but not many have power ports at every seat, especially among US carries; this will give AA a competitive advantage. Very wise move.

AGREED!!

On a related note, have there been any mock up pictures published?

1337Delta764 · Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:37 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 12):
This news is a bit frustrating. Lie flat in J, thumbs up. New Flagship Suite, another thumbs up. But while AA has the opportunity to be bold and create a true Premium Economy with an upgraded seat, they go for the extra legroom version instead. And aren't these articulated Y seats the same as the highly despised seats that CX bought and are replacing after only a couple of years? (The last news I could find about that plan was October 2010 on Bloomberg.)

I don't think so; I presume these are the Weber 5751s that AA has been installing on their new config 738s and 752s. The Weber 5751's seat bottom moves forward when it reclines, however, the seat back still moves as well, just not as much as with older seats.

Also, the Y seats will have Eco 9i monitors, and the only seats that the Eco 9i are available with include the Weber 5751 and the B/E Aerospace Pinnacle.

[Edited 2011-11-30 08:38:21]

csturdiv · Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:48 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 4):
I like how business is all normal compared to yesterday's bk filing.

Forget that major event yesterday that will reshape our whole airline...here's a shiny new plane in a nice new configuration for you to smile about

I flew AA yesterday and it was business as usual from what I saw. None of the agents at RSW mentioned it and none of the flight crew mentioned it. However I did get emails from both AA and AA Rewards about it though, basically stating it will be business as usual despite the filing.

mogandoCI · Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:48 pm

It's not the seats or the IFE. It's about the proper ratio of F/J/Y.

DFW/MIA are nice but they're no LHR/NRT. If AA does the same old thing and pull a 18 F / 50 J then they're definitely shooting themselves in the foot.

Otherwise the only thing that would enable is high availability for mileage redemptions and SWU that are worse yielding than a paying Y passenger by the time you factor in the increased per seat floor space and service level of F/J. Either that, or dirt cheap J fares to chase load factor while sacrificing RASM.

Quoting commavia (Reply 1):

Lie-flat F, lie-flat J (all with aisle access), F/J bar, premium Y, AVOD/AC power/USB throughout.

That's really only bringing themselves up to par, not industry leading. The stocked-bar is nothing to brag about considering VS has an actual bar with bar stools, Qatar has a lounge for First class, SQ has a double-wide bed, and EK has showers. The state-of-the-art for first class TV screen is already 23", so 17" is already behind even before they began.

ldvaviation · Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:51 pm

The order is now up to 10 aircraft. I thought it was 8? When did AA add the other two?

If it is the Weber Cirrus seat, it seems AA may be going with an enhanced version. I don't think the current seats have a motor at the headrest.

commavia · Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:55 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 12):
But while AA has the opportunity to be bold and create a true Premium Economy with an upgraded seat, they go for the extra legroom version instead.

They're moving to what United and Delta offer, which I think is perfectly adequate for where the market is today.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 15):
I don't think so; I presume these are the Weber 5751s that AA has been installing on their new config 738s and 752s. The Weber 5751's seat bottom moves forward when it reclines, however, the seat back still moves as well, just not as much as with older seats.

Agreed. I suspect these will be the same Y seats as on the new AA 737s, which everyone else seems to hate, I guess, but which I actually really like.

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 17):
It's not the seats or the IFE. It's about the proper ratio of F/J/Y.

DFW/MIA are nice but they're no LHR/NRT. If AA does the same old thing and pull a 18 F / 50 J then they're definitely shooting themselves in the foot.

Obviously.

I think all agree that AA needs a smaller F cabin, which I suspect is exactly where they are headed on the new 777s, as well as on the old 777s when they get reconfigured, which I suspect they will.

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 17):
That's really only bringing themselves up to par, not industry leading. The stocked-bar is nothing to brag about considering VS has an actual bar with bar stools, Qatar has a lounge for First class, SQ has a double-wide bed, and EK has showers. The state-of-the-art for first class TV screen is already 23", so 17" is already behind even before they began.

The reality is that AA need not be competitive with Singapore, Emirates and Qatar because AA is never going to be able to command the revenue premium those airlines do. No point in wasting their time and money trying. Better to try and focus on getting a product that is sufficiently competitive with their more immediate direct competitors, which I think this cabin sounds like it will do perfectly well.

roseflyer · Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:57 pm

Another question is with a premium economy, will AA go the direction of some airlines like KLM and Air New Zealand and switch regular economy to 10 abreast?

UAL777UK · Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:01 pm

Sounds all very intersting anf I look forward to seeing the layout.

I think thry have to go with a smaller F class, 8 tops. Disappointed they are going with the herringbone in J but with lie flats its going to be a great improvment overall.

After yesterdays news, this is positive stuff.

I wonder if its a hit and with many having gone that route if UA and DL will offer a bar/snack area in F/J in time. I would like to think so.

ldvaviation · Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:09 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 19):
The reality is that AA need not be competitive with Singapore, Emirates and Qatar because AA is never going to be able to command the revenue premium those airlines do. No point in wasting their time and money trying. Better to try and focus on getting a product that is sufficiently competitive with their more immediate direct competitors, which I think this cabin sounds like it will do perfectly well.

I don't know. AA has been doing quite a bit to enhance its profile with its most premium passengers. That stuff just never gets covered here because many here don't have access to those services.

My partner is a CK/EP with American and I can tell you that AA does some really amazing things for him. He raved about the new Flagship Check-in at LAX, comparing it to his experiences with Etihad.

As to the standard, I think it is more BA than UA and Delta. For the TA JV to really work to AA's benefit, the entire TA network has to be metal neutral in the customer's mind. Already, AA has introduced turndown service in F. And, now with the new products, AA business gives you something BA business doesn't, direct aisle access. I expect the changes to the F Suite will also make it more comparable to the BA suite, with a more exclusive privacy shell, better lighting and better finishes.

[Edited 2011-11-30 09:12:17]

AeroWesty · Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:24 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 19):
They're moving to what United and Delta offer, which I think is perfectly adequate for where the market is today.

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 22):
As to the standard, I think it is more BA than UA and Delta. For the TA JV to really work to AA's benefit, the entire TA network has to be metal neutral in the customer's mind.

A poster on Flyertalk from Texas who buys a lot of WT+ tickets on BA is already asking if the PE configuration is "Gerard's parting shot." AA should have taken the step to be on par with their peers in oneworld, BA, JAL, and QF. Let's just hope these planes don't get nicknamed the AArpeyShip straight onto the ramp.

pnd100 · Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:27 pm

I think AA has done a fine job with the order & configuration.

On what routes will these new 77Ws be deployed?

Quoting commavia (Reply 1):
Now it's time to roll all of this (except the bar, probably) back to all the other 777s, 763s and international 757s ...

I agree with this. If it is cost feasible (which it may not be) it would prolong the life of the other aircraft

aacun · Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:39 pm

For what I have heard, its 8 seats or around there in FC....... Half of its present size

AA777223 · Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:48 pm

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 18):
The order is now up to 10 aircraft. I thought it was 8? When did AA add the other two?

I caught this too! I think this is a subtle 2 new plane order announcement. Does anyone else catch this as a surprise. Maybe LDV and I were just in the dark.

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 22):
My partner is a CK/EP with American and I can tell you that AA does some really amazing things for him. He raved about the new Flagship Check-in at LAX, comparing it to his experiences with Etihad.

My parent's are both lifetime platinum (2MM milers) on AA, and while my dad loves to bitch and whine about the airline, they have taken very good care of them in their many years of international travel.

aa1818 · Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:58 pm

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 18):
The order is now up to 10 aircraft. I thought it was 8? When did AA add the other two?

AA has really quietly built up it's order! Congrats to AA and Boeing.

AA1818

hiflyer · Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:04 pm

IMHO all part of the prepackaged chap 11 pr that amr hopes calms concerns on the state of the carrier.....it's a good move to drop these bit by bit into the press in order to keep the image of normality for the upcoming xmas season.

crAAzy · Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:32 pm

Great news, although not really much of a secret around here. Can't wait to hear more details and see some pictures.

LHR makes sense as the first route to better bring the joint venture products in line across the Atlantic and since they'll be starting with only one aircraft. I wonder what the first LHR route is going to be - LAX,ORD,MIA,DFW,JFK?

Where they start flying from MAY give us an indication of where we'll see some new international routes. If LAX-LHR, then maybe another China route? If ORD-LHR, then maybe DEL,BOM,HKG in the works? If DFW then maybe SYD,ICN? If MIA-LHR, then maybe MIA-CPT? If JFK-LHR, ???.

Will also be interested to see when the 777-200 refurbs will start. I imagine they might start with one for one substituions new in and old out for refurb at first, then build up the process from there.

I'll also add that I can't see AA reducing the F cabin on the 77Ws down to just 8 seats since it seems this equipment is going to be used for some of it's most premium routes. I can however see the 772 dropping down to 8-12 F seats.

[Edited 2011-11-30 10:44:47]

commavia · Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:40 pm

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 22):
I don't know. AA has been doing quite a bit to enhance its profile with its most premium passengers. That stuff just never gets covered here because many here don't have access to those services.

My partner is a CK/EP with American and I can tell you that AA does some really amazing things for him. He raved about the new Flagship Check-in at LAX, comparing it to his experiences with Etihad.

I agree - absolutely. I, too, find that on balance AA does better at delivering on my value proposition than most other airlines I've flown. Not perfect, but not horrendous either.

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 22):
As to the standard, I think it is more BA than UA and Delta. For the TA JV to really work to AA's benefit, the entire TA network has to be metal neutral in the customer's mind. Already, AA has introduced turndown service in F. And, now with the new products, AA business gives you something BA business doesn't, direct aisle access. I expect the changes to the F Suite will also make it more comparable to the BA suite, with a more exclusive privacy shell, better lighting and better finishes.

Yeah, I can see that argument. Apparently AA feels they are better off competing directly with Delta and United, and perhaps accepting that some of the higher-yielding traffic may move to higher-end partners like BA.

Quoting crAAzy (Reply 29):
LHR makes sense as the first route to better bring the joint venture products in line across the Atlantic and since they'll be starting with only one aircraft. I wonder what the first LHR route is going to be - LAX,ORD,MIA,DFW,JFK?

Where they start flying from MAY give us an indication of where we'll see some new international routes. If LAX-LHR, then maybe another China route? If ORD-LHR, then maybe DEL,BOM,HKG in the works? If DFW then maybe SYD,ICN? If MIA-LHR, then maybe MIA-CPT? If JFK-LHR, ???.

I could see 10 777-300ERs ultimately moving to new, high-potential longhaul routes as these cabin upgrades eventually/hopefully get flowed down to the other international fleet. I suspect JFK-LHR will get these planes first, although perhaps they'll follow the lead of the 777 introduction in 1999 and put them on 50/51 DFW first.

Longer-term, I think markets like DFW-HKG, DFW-GRU, DFW-NRT, MIA-EZE and MIA-JNB make a lot of sense. And that schedule - those specific five city pairs - could be accomplished, by my math, with 10 aircraft including 1 spare.

Quoting crAAzy (Reply 29):
Will also be interested to see when the 777-200 refurbs will start. I imagine they might start with one for one substituions new in and old out for refurb at first, then build up the process from there.

They need to do it quickly. AA's international product isn't the worst on earth, but it needs updating and work. The template of what they are apparently putting on the new 777s seems to be a massive leap forward, even if it's not quite up to the level of some other foreign carriers. Rolling this back to the 777s and 767s at a minimum needs to happen ASAP - no stretching this out like they did with the ridiculous 737/757 refits, wifi install, etc.

crAAzy · Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:53 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 30):
They need to do it quickly. AA's international product isn't the worst on earth, but it needs updating and work. The template of what they are apparently putting on the new 777s seems to be a massive leap forward, even if it's not quite up to the level of some other foreign carriers. Rolling this back to the 777s and 767s at a minimum needs to happen ASAP - no stretching this out like they did with the ridiculous 737/757 refits, wifi install, etc.

Agreed!

It's also interesting to note that the release says that the new 77Ws are going to start being delivered in 2012. Previously, the first delivery wasn't going to be until 2013 so either this is an error in the press release or something changed with the production slots.

roseflyer · Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:05 pm

Quoting crAAzy (Reply 31):
It's also interesting to note that the release says that the new 77Ws are going to start being delivered in 2012. Previously, the first delivery wasn't going to be until 2013 so either this is an error in the press release or something changed with the production slots.

Yes I've heard 4th quarter 2012.

Quoting commavia (Reply 30):
They need to do it quickly. AA's international product isn't the worst on earth, but it needs updating and work. The template of what they are apparently putting on the new 777s seems to be a massive leap forward, even if it's not quite up to the level of some other foreign carriers. Rolling this back to the 777s and 767s at a minimum needs to happen ASAP - no stretching this out like they did with the ridiculous 737/757 refits, wifi install, etc.

Quick replacements require capital and lots of it. I agree flat business is a necessity as all their competitors are doing it (UA, DL & US), AA in bankruptcy will have restricted cash to do things like modifications. While product upgrades are needed and valuable, cash might be better spent replacing airplanes with higher fuel burn. It's hard to explain to a bankruptcy judge the need to spend millions on a product that isn't that old (the business class was just recently replaced) when they are eliminating contracts and forcing other stakeholders to write off expenses.

pnd100 · Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:08 pm

Quoting crAAzy (Reply 29):
I wonder what the first LHR route is going to be - LAX,ORD,MIA,DFW,JFK

IMHO, I think that ORD-LHR would prove the best for the introduction of the 77W.
Following LHR will inevitably be China but I think sending this flagship to Brazil would yield good dividends.
Again just my opinion based on hunches. I do not have any route stats to back it up

Tdan · Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:11 pm

Quoting aacun (Reply 25):
For what I have heard, its 8 seats or around there in FC....... Half of its present size

Hmmm, if this is true and it's herringbone in Business Class, methinks it's an 8F57C238Y configuration similar to CX only with 2 more F suites. Rearrange the galley and the lavs and voila, a space for a stand-up bar

mogandoCI · Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:25 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 19):
The reality is that AA need not be competitive with Singapore, Emirates and Qatar because AA is never going to be able to command the revenue premium those airlines do. No point in wasting their time and money trying. Better to try and focus on getting a product that is sufficiently competitive with their more immediate direct competitors, which I think this cabin sounds like it will do perfectly well.

AA puts 16F in their 772 while SQ only has 12F in their A380, which is nearly twice the floor place. If anything, AA is over-competing.

ps : DFW-HKG is a sure money loser on the 77W - close to zero brand recognition in HKG (CX can code-share but won't do marketing for you), backtracking if connecting to China, ULH with nearly zero O&D, plus massively overlapping connections against CX's HKG-LAX/ORD/JFK. QF needs SYD-DFW because SYD-LAX only connects to a few cities. CX is an entirely different story. Even MAD-HKG has a better chance of succeeding.

commavia · Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:36 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 36):
AA puts 16F in their 772 while SQ only has 12F in their A380, which is nearly twice the floor place. If anything, AA is over-competing.

Again - you're preaching to the choir here. Nobody is arguing that F16 makes sense, and everyone agrees it's on its way out. F8 makes way more sense, and is likely to be what results.

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 36):
ps : DFW-HKG is a sure money loser on the 77W - close to zero brand recognition in HKG (CX can code-share but won't do marketing for you), backtracking if connecting to China, ULH with nearly zero O&D, plus massively overlapping connections against CX's HKG-LAX/ORD/JFK. QF needs SYD-DFW because SYD-LAX only connects to a few cities. CX is an entirely different story. Even MAD-HKG has a better chance of succeeding.

I disagree - I believe the local market, increasing commercial linkages, and connectivity would be enough to profitably sustain a flight.

United727 · Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:42 pm

Quoting Rising (Thread starter):
A walk-up bar stocked with snacks and refreshments in the premium cabin will be a first for any U.S. airline and adds another unique element of luxury to the 777-300.

Possibly a bit off topic, but first, how is this bar concept different from those found on the original B747's decades ago? Second, seeing that Boeing offered Walk-up bars on the B747 AND US Carriers flew those planes with such a configuration, I ask, How is this a "first" for any US Airline?

gigneil · Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:48 pm

Its a second, but its still a nice one. I like the little snack area United has on like IAD-FCO and the ORD longhaul routes. Its just snacks, but it gives me something to wander around and do.

NS

jfk777 · Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:49 pm

IF AA does have a 777-300ER with Lie Flat Busniess Class seats, its sounds good and its about time, what took AA so Long ? IF AA does seating like the new Cathay Business Class it going to be a winner.

LAXdude1023 · Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:54 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 36):
ps : DFW-HKG is a sure money loser on the 77W - close to zero brand recognition in HKG (CX can code-share but won't do marketing for you), backtracking if connecting to China, ULH with nearly zero O&D, plus massively overlapping connections against CX's HKG-LAX/ORD/JFK. QF needs SYD-DFW because SYD-LAX only connects to a few cities. CX is an entirely different story. Even MAD-HKG has a better chance of succeeding.

You said the same thing about SYD-DFW, yet its still here and its increasing.

DFW-HKG is a much larger market than DFW-BNE or DFW-SYD. With hubs on both ends, it should be a winner. Maybe a 787 would be a better fit.

[Edited 2011-11-30 11:58:55]

SonomaFlyer · Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:04 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 41):
DFW-HKG is a much larger market than DFW-BNE or DFW-SYD. With hubs on both ends, it should be a winner. Maybe a 787 would be a better fit.

If the route is a joint venture with CX, this would be a no-brainer. Even without it being a full joint venture, American has enough of a network to make this a successful route, especially if they have some good cargo contracts with ongoing connections via CX to Asia.

brilondon · Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:33 pm

This is good news for AA. I was looking around the AA site and the site has a 787 pictured on its site as a future aircraft, I guess it might have the new interior as well when ever it arrives.

[Edited 2011-11-30 12:52:36]

MAH4546 · Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:43 pm

As I mentioned yesterday, I am told the seat is the Sicma Cirrus. But given that AA hasn't even said what seat it is, that makes me suspect that a decision is not yet final.

Further, I am also hearing the product will retrofit onto the current 772 fleet. No plans to change the 752 right now, and 763 might need a different new J seat (777 product too wide).

LAXdude1023 · Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:46 pm

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 44):
763 might need a different new J seat (777 product too wide).

More than anything, the 763 would need a new Y seat.

aaexecplat · Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:15 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 36):
ps : DFW-HKG is a sure money loser on the 77W - close to zero brand recognition in HKG (CX can code-share but won't do marketing for you), backtracking if connecting to China, ULH with nearly zero O&D, plus massively overlapping connections against CX's HKG-LAX/ORD/JFK. QF needs SYD-DFW because SYD-LAX only connects to a few cities. CX is an entirely different story. Even MAD-HKG has a better chance of succeeding.

What kind of fantasy world do you live in? They have a fortress hub on one end and a partner OW hub at the other end with massive demand. Right now, all that traffic is going through LAX or ORD and then onwards on CX. Of course that route will be a winner. What you are suggesting is akin to saying UA would lose money flying from SFO to FRA...

BMIFlyer · Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:24 pm

Quoting United727 (Reply 38):
Possibly a bit off topic, but first, how is this bar concept different from those found on the original B747's decades ago? Second, seeing that Boeing offered Walk-up bars on the B747 AND US Carriers flew those planes with such a configuration, I ask, How is this a "first" for any US Airline?

It's called PR - basically AA trying to make themselves look good

1337Delta764 · Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:29 pm

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 44):
As I mentioned yesterday, I am told the seat is the Sicma Cirrus. But given that AA hasn't even said what seat it is, that makes me suspect that a decision is not yet final.

Which is identical to the Weber Cirrus (both Weber and Sicma are owned by Zodiac Aerospace). US Airways has the Sicma-branded version, while DL is getting the Weber-branded version for the 744s and A330s. AA is a major Weber customer, so I wouldn't be surprised if AA goes with the Weber version.

BTW, I wonder what model the F suites are. Could they perhaps be the Weber Catalina?

[Edited 2011-11-30 13:32:17]

dirtyfrankd · Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:37 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 1):
Lie-flat F, lie-flat J (all with aisle access), F/J bar, premium Y, AVOD/AC power/USB throughout.

Good move.

Now it's time to roll all of this (except the bar, probably) back to all the other 777s, 763s and international 757s ...

I respectfully disagree with this statement. I definitely agree that they should roll this out to all of the other 777s, but I wouldn't bother rolling out any more changes or upgrades to the 763s or the 752s.

I would configure the 789s in a similar fashion. In terms of fleet upgrades, here's what i think should be the standard

-77W to be configured to the way that has been announced

-77E to be refurbished/reconfigured to match the 77W (except maybe not include the bar as mentioned by Commavia).

-787 to be configured similar to 77W

-A321/A319 to receive to be configured similarly to the current 738-BSI in terms of seats and lighting. All fleet should be fitted with Wi-fi and have the movie streaming offerings currently offered in the 762

- All old 738s to be reconfigured as planned to the pre-BSI newer 738s and include the movie streaming service on 762.

- Leave 763s alone and start retiring and replacing with 789 ASAP

- Leave 762s alone and start retiring and replacing with A321 ASAO (yes I know some of you hate the thought of going single-aisle on transcon)

- Leave 752s alone and start retiring and replacing with appropriate new narrowbody and widebody fleets ASAP

- And obviously, leave S80 alone and replace with new A319/738s ASAP

For the purposes of this discussion, I'm leaving out the regional fleet.

StuckInCA · Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:42 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 4):
I like how business is all normal compared to yesterday's bk filing.

Forget that major event yesterday that will reshape our whole airline...here's a shiny new plane in a nice new configuration for you to smile about

To the customer it should appear "normal." Maybe even better.

Now is not the time to stop trying.

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