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tsnamm
Posts: 563
Joined: Wed May 04, 2005 3:28 am

RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:13 am

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 78):
From an official point of view, CO is gone, and the remaining distinctions will be progressively reduced. UA's JFK operation is about the same size in terms of daily seats as AA's at EWR, give or take a few. With the new p.s. configuration, UA at JFK will have more daily seats than AA at EWR, so your comparison there is weaker. I don't think CO's former presence (or lack thereof) at JFK is necessarily relevant when comparing current operations

The comparison is not weak at all...inheriting the current UA operation at JFK had nothing to do with CO's historical lack of service at JFK compared to a far larger presence at EWR for DL or AA by comparison. With the current UA operation I grant you it is much better, but that had nothing to do with legacy CO.

[Edited 2011-12-07 17:18:47]

[Edited 2011-12-07 17:29:46]
 
tsnamm
Posts: 563
Joined: Wed May 04, 2005 3:28 am

RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:27 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 66):
What about the UA Cargo building at JFK. CO actually operates a nice sized cargo operation at JFK, mostly trucking cargo to EWR, they even are in a new building. Will the new UA move back to their own Cargo building at JFK?



In a word No...CO's cargo operation in Bldg 71 is a newer facility than UA Bldg 23 which has basically sat vacant since they had outsourced their cargo operation approx 10 years ago. Currently they have co-located UA's cargo operation to CO's facility in Bldg 71. with CO providing the handling. It is possible that UA's building may be used for a mail operation similar to what CO is using the old UA building in EWR for.
 
T5towbar
Posts: 489
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:06 am

RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:30 am

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 67):
Honestly, if the Port Authority stopped being so conservative and lowered their pay roll expenses a bit, then the could just build another runway and it would take care of everything (yes I know it's landlocked, but there are ways.)

Not going to happen. There's this big tall building being built in Lower Manhattan.........
A comment from an Ex CON: Work Hard.....Fly Standby!
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:04 am

Quoting VC10er (Reply 99):
One question is: for someone like me who buys a full fare ticket from JFK to SYD, I assume I will get the new business seat on p.s.? Or do I get bumped down to Y+ ?

You would very obviously get a business seat.

The BF seat is _much_ nicer than the F seat currently on board.

NS
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:04 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 97):
752 conversions commence this weekend mostly @ LAX and MCO during 24-hour layovers.

This is great information. Thank ye.

NS
 
questions
Posts: 2337
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:51 am

RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:10 am

How about...

A319
- 6 Int'l First Suites
- Balance lie flat, United Business
JFK-LAX/SFO

And...
JFK-LHR
 
DogsOfWar
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:50 pm

RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:37 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 24):
that's not true. When I flew in J last year on PS it was easily the most intoxiated I've ever been on a plane. Champaigne before takeoff, wine being topped off every 15 minutes, bailys after dinner around dessert time (Baily's is offered with dessert.) Twas a very festive flight.

you got lucky, i was on a flight from JFK-SFO about 2 months ago and it was laughable! i dont drink the girly drinks so i guess i was out of luck 
 
tommy767
Posts: 4658
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:18 pm

RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:04 pm

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 78):
For DL though, your point is valid, with service to all major hubs except NRT.

To be fair the EWR-CDG flight will stop in March and there are no plans for DL to take it over, yet.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 79):
Also, I'm betting those planes are flying as a result of reduced EWR-Europe traffic around Christmas.

EWR-LAX/SFO has been seeing CO 757s on the route with frequency since around 2009. Before that there was a lot more 737s on the routes. I've also noticed that there are less 739s on the transcons then there used to be.

Also UA tends to fly their domestic 757s on EWR-SFO at least 1x daily. This past summer they flew SFO-EWR 4x daily with 319, 320 and 757 and CO flew less of their own metal on the route.

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 88):

41 TATL 757s is really more than UA/CO needs. The transcons are a lucrative and appropriate way to keep them busy. Those 752s on the EWR transcons aren't going anywhere.

Clearly. Although I'd expect them on routes like BOS-LAX/SFO in the future.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 97):
752 conversions commence this weekend mostly @ LAX and MCO during 24-hour layovers.
753 planned for late winter/spring conversion.

Are UA's domestic 757s getting any interior upgrades? There was some talk about bringing them up to "CO standards" not sure what that entails.

Quoting T5towbar (Reply 102):
Not going to happen. There's this big tall building being built in Lower Manhattan.........

Ugh yeah. Not to mention their payroll is insanity.

Quoting DogsOfWar (Reply 106):
you got lucky, i was on a flight from JFK-SFO about 2 months ago and it was laughable! i dont drink the girly drinks so i guess i was out of luck

Well that was a catch 22. The Bailey's made me pass out and I missed the hot cookie service  
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
Rdh3e
Posts: 3630
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:09 pm

RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:30 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 107):
There was some talk about bringing them up to "CO standards" not sure what that entails.

Harder seats perhaps?   
 
mogandoCI
Posts: 1247
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:39 pm

RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:44 pm

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 88):
41 TATL 757s is really more than UA/CO needs. The transcons are a lucrative and appropriate way to keep them busy. Those 752s on the EWR transcons aren't going anywhere.

I'm not saying throw it away, merely swap with renovated UA birds that aren't designed for TATL.

Also, post merger, there might be more use of those CO 752s at IAD or even attempt something crazy like BOS-FRA.
 
tommy767
Posts: 4658
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:18 pm

RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:57 pm

Quoting rdh3e (Reply 108):
Harder seats perhaps?

NO! They better not touch those seats. They are way more comfortable than anything CO has.

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 109):
Also, post merger, there might be more use of those CO 752s at IAD or even attempt something crazy like BOS-FRA.

Would be interesting to see UA do a european route again from BOS. It definitely won't be LHR as it's so flooded with competition right now.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
sq_ek_freak
Posts: 1180
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2000 4:48 pm

RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:22 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 90):
When Mr. Baldwin was kicked off the flight yesterday from LAX to JFK, Oscar de la Hoya was sitting in the cabin right near him. That's the norm with this route and specifically AA.
Quoting VC10er (Reply 99):
I am sure UA planners know more than me, but the small F class was "home" to celebs and big execs. I have done the p.s. route JFK / LAX route many times on my way to SYD or Asia. I have seen Phillis Diller AND Paula Abdul and Michael Phelps.

My last flight on P.S. I had Kate Bosworth, Kristen Bell and Hayden Christensen all on the same flight, all in the tiny F class cabin! That said this is all anecdotal evidence, in that we don't know the economics of the route the way the UA route/fleet planners do - though from my lengthy conversations with the UA crew on my flight (and an FA friend of mine at UA) they are all surprised and concerned with the move to 2 class. The common theme was "if it ain't broke, why fix it". They all agreed an upgrade was needed, but taking out F was a risky move. Though since then AA has declared bankruptcy, so maybe that's changed the game.

Quoting VC10er (Reply 99):
the BF seat is FAR more comfortable than the old, old Singapore C seat (although they did look very posh they were not that comfortable)

I agree - its way too hard. I actually much prefer the Business Class recliners. Especially because I don't sleep on these flights.

Quoting VC10er (Reply 99):
I love p.s., it's fabulous. I will never forget the first time boarded her, it was a great innovation for UA. It is time though for the spruce.

Wholeheartedly agree. The service also has great memories and sentimental value in my mind. Service does need a spruce though...I remember when it first started they had 6 crew, 2 for each cabin, and TWO meal services, east bound as well!! That was a bit overkill in fact - the meal, not crew...can't believe they have 1 crew doing F...that would not fly at EK for sure - it's always interesting to have conversations with the crew as we compare working at EK and UA. One of the fellas was looking into applying for EK actually!

Quoting VC10er (Reply 99):

And, what about the United International Lounge at JFK? Will that be kept for p.s. BF pax?

I'd imagine they keep it.

Quoting DogsOfWar (Reply 106):
you got lucky, i was on a flight from JFK-SFO about 2 months ago and it was laughable! i dont drink the girly drinks so i guess i was out of luck

I don't do the girly drinks - I either opt for whiskey rocks or vodka sodas (okay so maybe that's moderately girly) - always served with a smile and topped off before I even asked.
Keep Discovering
 
User avatar
N62NA
Posts: 4476
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2003 1:05 am

RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:39 pm

Quoting gigneil (Reply 91):
I don't get it either. JFK is the least convenient airport in the area - Newark is far superior in that regard.
Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 90):
Why the celebrities don't use EWR, I don't know.

Most of these people flying in First or Business class are arriving in towne cars / limosines, so it's not really an issue for them per se.

However, remember that by car there are really only 2 ways to get out of Manhattan (lower and midtown) to get to EWR (Holland and Lincoln Tunnels), whereas to get to JFK, you have your choice of the Brooklyn, Manhattan, Williamsburg and 59th Street (Queensboro) bridges PLUS 2 tunnels (Brooklyn-Battery and Queens-Midtown).
 
mogandoCI
Posts: 1247
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:39 pm

RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:40 pm

Quoting tsnamm (Reply 100):
The comparison is not weak at all...inheriting the current UA operation at JFK had nothing to do with CO's historical lack of service at JFK compared to a far larger presence at EWR for DL or AA by comparison. With the current UA operation I grant you it is much better, but that had nothing to do with legacy CO.

Let's assume the customer base is split 50/50 between east of Manhattan and west of Manhattan. DL/AA needing to serve EWR because they can't afford neglect the western half of the metropolitan, but legacy CO already serve the eastern half via LGA, so JFK would be duplicating efforts.
 
codc10
Posts: 2897
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2000 7:18 am

RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:06 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 107):

To be fair the EWR-CDG flight will stop in March and there are no plans for DL to take it over, yet.

Ah, yes. I didn't know Delta lists CDG as a hub. So let's call it, "DL service to all domestic hubs, plus AMS."

As far as DL taking over the route, I would have thought we'd have heard already. Very strange that SkyTeam is leaving the market completely.

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 107):
There was some talk about bringing them up to "CO standards" not sure what that entails.

CO's 757s are ETOPS-rated, have EFB, software upgrades, performance improvements, and newer avionics that support ADS-B and GNSS.

CO's birds by most accounts are in excellent condition, given the nature of their operations. United's 757s are older and conduct primarily domestic, non-overwater flights (except for the 16 or so ETOPS 757s), so the economic case may not not there for such advanced equipment as is installed on the CO birds.

Quoting rdh3e (Reply 108):
Harder seats perhaps?

There are a few exCon MCOMX staff on this board that can attest to the fact that many of the 757s were in less-than-stellar condition (but still completely safe). Much of the UA 757 maintenance is now being conducted at MCO in the former CO facility.

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 109):
even attempt something crazy like BOS-FRA.

A second frequency, or a seasonal capacity reduction on the route could work, but I don't expect it.

Quoting sq_ek_freak (Reply 111):
The common theme was "if it ain't broke, why fix it". They all agreed an upgrade was needed, but taking out F was a risky move.

Why is it risky if the new product will outclass the current F in every way? If it is called United First, will this still be an issue?
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 14146
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"

Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:08 pm

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 115):
Very strange that SkyTeam is leaving the market completely.

Open Skies has been very succesful in getting corporate contracts on EWR-ORY.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757

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