United Announces Doha Qatar Service

LAXintl · Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:43 pm

Effective May 1, 2012

Dubai service extended to Doha

UA976 IAD-DXB 1822-1535
UA976 DXB-DOH 1710-1715

UA977 DOH-DXB 2020-2225
UA977 DXB-IAD 0010-0632

B777s

Becomes 4th city in Gulf region for United.

Press release:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/United...nounces-prnews-1167089870.html?x=0

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G500 · Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:46 pm

UA announces IAD-Doha when Qatar is already on the route????

Newark or Chicago would've made more sense in my opinion.

tommy767 · Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:49 pm

NICE! I'm digging this UA!

Rdh3e · Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:49 pm

Quoting g500 (Reply 1):
UA announces IAD-Doha when Qatar is already on the route????

Newark or Chicago would've made more sense in my opinion.

It's really DXB-DOH so any current or future UA flights to DXB will be able to utilize the connection also.

something · Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:50 pm

Flying military to the new airbase I see..

STT757 · Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:50 pm

Quoting rdh3e (Reply 3):
It's really DXB-DOH so any current or future UA flights to DXB will be able to utilize the connection also.

IAH with a 787.

UAL747 · Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:59 pm

This is very military driven, but I'm diggin' it! Loving United's expansion in the middle east! IAD is the perfect hub to direct this flight from. United is constantly proving (and the merger with CO definitely helps) that US airlines can expand. I wish AA had similar views, they'd be a much better airline IMHO, instead of funneling everyone and their dog through LHR.

UAL

STT757 · Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:03 pm

Quoting g500 (Reply 1):
UA announces IAD-Doha when Qatar is already on the route????

Newark or Chicago would've made more sense in my opinion.

GSA traffic is going on UA, and there is lots of US Government traffic to Qatar.

sulley · Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:04 pm

Now it's time for IAH-SCL, EWR-HEL/PRG/NCE/VIE, SFO-CAN... Okay, hope I'm not being greedy

Great news.

STT757 · Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:06 pm

Quoting Sulley (Reply 8):
Now it's time for IAH-SCL, EWR-HEL/PRG/NCE/VIE, SFO-CAN...

Add to that:

EWR-IST, EWR-ICN, EWR-GIG, IAH-MUC

UAL747 · Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:09 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 9):
EWR-IST, EWR-ICN, EWR-GIG, IAH-MUC

I think EWR-IST, or heck, even ORD-IST would work. Not to mention large Star Partner TK being on the other end of all of that.

UAL

kgaiflyer · Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:13 pm

Quoting g500 (Reply 1):
UA announces IAD-Doha when Qatar is already on the route????

QR planes are flying out full. It's seems to be a convenient routing to DEL , BOM and seven other Indian cities for folks in this area. And some of my Pakistani and Persian students are flying them as well. They have their own following.

I doubt if United's IAD-DXB-DOH routing will have too much effect on QR.

tommy767 · Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:21 pm

Quoting Sulley (Reply 8):

Now it's time for IAH-SCL, EWR-HEL/PRG/NCE/VIE, SFO-CAN... Okay, hope I'm not being greedy

Quoting STT757 (Reply 9):
EWR-IST, EWR-ICN, EWR-GIG, IAH-MUC

I think the most wanted routes in the UA network are:

EWR-GIG
SFO-CAN
IAH-SCL
EWR-IST
IAD-TLV

DogsOfWar · Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:26 pm

I'd love to see a IAD-TLV that would rock!

I wish UA would compete with AA out of ORD to Ireland.

UAL747 · Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:33 pm

Quoting DogsOfWar (Reply 13):
I wish UA would compete with AA out of ORD to Ireland.

I believe they are starting IAD-DUB with their own metal.

UAL

roseflyer · Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:40 pm

United seems to be developing a mini US government - Middle East route network. Qatar, Bahrain & Kuwait are all US allies. Since US government workers and military fly on US airlines whenever possible, the extra stopover doesn't matter. The only drawback to this is that the US government does not pay for first class travel, but economy loads and fares often make up for it. It is far cheaper for the government to shuttle people back and forth on UA scheduled flights than to pay for charters. UA is getting revenue that otherwise would have gone to World Airways.

On top of that UA makes a killing in change fees off of the Middle East market. I'm not sure I understand why, but overbooking by more than 40 passengers is common on such routes since so many people do not end up flying their normal itinerary and don't show up at the airport.

UAL777UK · Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:47 pm

Nice addition to the Middle East UA network that seems to be a gold mine for them. Long may it continue.

Can we speculate, if any other routes will open up that way soon?

STT757 · Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:53 pm

Quoting ual777uk (Reply 16):
Can we speculate, if any other routes will open up that way soon?

In that part of the World I'm wondering if UA will try IAD-RUH-AUH or IAD-JED-AUH.

Jamake1 · Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:17 pm

I'd like to see IAD-JNB...

kgaiflyer · Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:19 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 17):
I'm wondering if UA will try IAD-RUH-AUH or IAD-JED-AUH.

To compete with SV service from Washington-Dulles?

SV has a reputation for awful service -- for both male and female passengers.

If UA can get landing rights in JED and RUH , this might be the perfect opportunity for 787 service into the region

[Edited 2011-12-08 11:22:03]

gigneil · Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:08 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 17):
In that part of the World I'm wondering if UA will try IAD-RUH-AUH or IAD-JED-AUH.

I hope so!

Quoting jamake1 (Reply 18):
I'd like to see IAD-JNB...

I just don't think there's a plane in the system to fly it. The 787-8 won't have enough legs to do it well. The 787-9 does, and the A350 probably will.

NS

mdtrunner · Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:38 pm

Quoting Sulley (Reply 8):
Now it's time for IAH-SCL, EWR-HEL/PRG/NCE/VIE, SFO-CAN... Okay, hope I'm not being greedy

I love these. If there are routes that Delta has that I wish United had it's that. Delta has the ATL-JNB flight, but SA does that from IAD. But NCE, VIE, and PRG are cities I wish United would add. Glad to see DOH though.

klwright69 · Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:56 pm

I started another thread earlier on service to RUH from USA carriers. I would love to see it. AUH is not a very big market however. Maybe they could try Muscat also. I am really dreaming there.

Has anyone considered that maybe DXB needs some help as a standalone route for UA? It must not be easy competing against the behemoth EK.

mogandoCI · Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:08 pm

With these seemingly disconnected flights like IAD-KWI-BAH and IAD-DXB-DOH and potential for Jeddah/Riyadh, how about a Middle East scissor hub that is fed from both IAD and EWR ?

codc10 · Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:10 pm

I think EWR and/or IAH-DXB should be n

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 23):
With these seemingly disconnected flights like IAD-KWI-BAH and IAD-DXB-DOH and potential for Jeddah/Riyadh, how about a Middle East scissor hub that is fed from both IAD and EWR ?

I think we will see IAH, EWR, and perhaps ORD service to DXB in the next several years.

klwright69 · Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:16 pm

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 24):
I think we will see IAH, EWR, and perhaps ORD service to DXB in the next several years.

I don't necessarily think this is a given truth. The emirate of Dubai is suffering from financial difficulties. Maybe it needs some time to recover first. Dubai is not supported by oil.

gigneil · Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:23 pm

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 22):
Has anyone considered that maybe DXB needs some help as a standalone route for UA? It must not be easy competing against the behemoth EK.

Emirates doesn't serve the DC area presently, so I don't think its having a hard time. Plus those planes sit there, and as has been mentioned the US government pays a lot for many of these seats.

NS

davescj · Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:52 pm

I will say I'm impressed by UA making some concrete moves into the Middle East. It looked like DL might be expanding for a while, but that doesn't seem to be happening now. Rather I think DL will rely on Middle East Airlines and SV entering Skyteam for that.

Perhaps UA is focusing on the Middle East as DL builds up in Africa?

Dave

avi8 · Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:14 pm

Is this basically a new frequency to Dubai from IAD?

scorpy · Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:31 pm

Quoting avi8 (Reply 28):
Is this basically a new frequency to Dubai from IAD?

No, its a new tag on the existing IAD-DXB-IAD route. Route is now IAD-DXB-DOH-DXH-IAD.

calpsafltskeds · Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:52 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 9):
Quoting Sulley (Reply 8):
Now it's time for IAH-SCL, EWR-HEL/PRG/NCE/VIE, SFO-CAN...

Add to that:

EWR-IST, EWR-ICN, EWR-GIG, IAH-MUC

EWR-HEL/PRG/NCE/VIE/IST would be possible with 763ER reconfiguration. So would EWR-GIG and IAH-MUC/SCL, but the 763s may sub somewhere to allow 764 or 777 service on these routes.

Quoting DogsOfWar (Reply 13):
I'd love to see a IAD-TLV that would rock!

Another potential for the 763ER or an aircraft released by the 763ER reconfiguration.

Quoting DogsOfWar (Reply 13):
I wish UA would compete with AA out of ORD to Ireland.

752 service from released aircraft with 763ER upgrades at EWR?
If you total up the above, Here's the 763ERs needed to provide or release other widebodies to run these routes.
EWR-HEL 1
EWR-PRG 1
EWR-NCE 1
EWR-VIE 1
EWR-IST 1
EWR-GIG 2
IAH-MUC 1
IAH-SLC 2
IAD-TLV 1
Can we dream these would take 11 of 12 763ER reconfigs? Yields could be an issue with some of these routes as well as seasonality.
SFO-CAN and EWR-ICN would have to be the result of 787 deliveries.

STT757 · Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:00 pm

UA is reconfiguring 14 767-300s from Domestic to two class International configuration, however it's also been announced that the remaining eight 762s will be leaving the fleet. So after the 762 retirements there will be a net of six wide bodies for International routes, this is not including the 787s of which UA is scheduled to take delivery of five in 2012.

My hunch is that the six additional 767s will go towards replacing 757s from EWR on routes such as AMS, CPH, OSL, ARN, MAD, BCN.

washingtonian · Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:19 pm

Excited to see United expanding into the Middle East, and signaling that Dulles will continue to grow/

Quoting STT757 (Reply 31):
eight 762s will be leaving the fleet. So after the 762 retirements there will be a net of six wide bodies for International routes

Isn't it really more than 6 because some of those 762s are used on deep South America flights that require two aircraft? I don't think we'll see United replace those 762 flights with 2-class 763s. I would guess more 764s to South America, but who knows.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 31):
My hunch is that the six additional 767s will go towards replacing 757s from EWR on routes such as AMS, CPH, OSL, ARN, MAD, BCN.

A lot of 757 slack in that case. I still think we will see the 2-class 767s replacing certain 3-class 767 routes and then those 3-class 767s can go to Newark (IAD-DME, ORD-AMS, etc) as needed.

calpsafltskeds · Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:19 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 31):
UA is reconfiguring 14 767-300s from Domestic to two class International configuration, however it's also been announced that the remaining eight 762s will be leaving the fleet. So after the 762 retirements there will be a net of six wide bodies for International routes, this is not including the 787s of which UA is scheduled to take delivery of five in 2012.

My hunch is that the six additional 767s will go towards replacing 757s from EWR on routes such as AMS, CPH, OSL, ARN, MAD, BCN.

Thanks for the update on the 762s and correction on the 763ER total. Your hunch may be correct, which would free up some 752s for ORD-Ireland/MAN or potentially IAD-LIS/MAD/EDI/BHX/SNN/GLA.

Regarding the 763ER domestic aircraft, do you feel the 753 will take over the hub to hub routes? How about Hawaii with the 753?

tommy767 · Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:28 pm

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 33):
Regarding the 763ER domestic aircraft, do you feel the 753 will take over the hub to hub routes? How about Hawaii with the 753?

If you look at ORD-SFO it's something ridiculous right now like 16x a day. I wouldn't be surprised to see hub to hub get replaced by a large frequency of 738, 739, 752 (both CO and UA birds) and 753s. I'm sure the domestic 777s will continue to fly to Hawaii.

Then again, these 763s can be rotated between the hubs especially out of EWR, SFO, LAX, ORD and IAD.

Rdh3e · Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:45 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 34):
If you look at ORD-SFO it's something ridiculous right now like 16x a day. I wouldn't be surprised to see hub to hub get replaced by a large frequency of 738, 739, 752 (both CO and UA birds) and 753s. I'm sure the domestic 777s will continue to fly to Hawaii.

Then again, these 763s can be rotated between the hubs especially out of EWR, SFO, LAX, ORD and IAD.

Using your example. I think this has largely happened already. The Thursday schedule right now is 13x daily ORD->SFO with the following:

319 x1 (120 seats)
320 x2 (138/144 seats)
738 x1 (160 seats)
752 x6 (182 seats)
763 x3 (183x1/244x2 seats)

2523 seats total.

[Edited 2011-12-08 15:46:37]

STT757 · Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:16 am

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 32):
Isn't it really more than 6 because some of those 762s are used on deep South America flights that require two aircraft? I don't think we'll see United replace those 762 flights with 2-class 763s. I would guess more 764s to South America, but who knows.

EWR-GRU and IAH-EZE are both going to the 764, which leaves IAH-GRU as the only remaining UA 762 route to South America. That will probably go to the 763.

VC10er · Fri Dec 09, 2011 3:43 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 31):

Are the 14 767's being fitted with 2 or 3 class? And are the 8 leaving 3 class Pre merger Intl?

laca773 · Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:02 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 31):
UA is reconfiguring 14 767-300s from Domestic to two class International configuration, however it's also been announced that the remaining eight 762s will be leaving the fleet. So after the 762 retirements there will be a net of six wide bodies for International routes, this is not including the 787s of which UA is scheduled to take delivery of five in 2012.

Too bad about the 762ERs. These birds would be good for routes like HEL, CPN, OSL.

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 34):

If you look at ORD-SFO it's something ridiculous right now like 16x a day. I wouldn't be surprised to see hub to hub get replaced by a large frequency of 738, 739, 752 (both CO and UA birds) and 753s. I'm sure the domestic 777s will continue to fly to Hawaii.

Are these flights going out full? That seems like an awful lot of capacity even for a sizable hub like SFO. I don't believe LAX even has this much capacity

Why does DOH need to be flown via DXB? Not enough 77Es in the fleet right now to do it nonstop?

AvSafety46 · Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:50 am

I fly the IAD-DXB flight regularly and almost always full. For the most part it is impossible to get an upgrade. I have not been on a flight yet that that the plane is not full and even a few left behind. If anything they need a second flight. I think a IAH-DXB would work if the T7 can make with a usable load. This would be a great route for the 787. If UA sees a need for it should be IAD-DOH-IAD and leave IAD-DXB-IAD there won’t be a lot of seats for DXB-DOH. This is already cover by QR and EK.

boilerla · Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:54 am

Quoting laca773 (Reply 38):

Are these flights going out full? That seems like an awful lot of capacity even for a sizable hub like SFO. I don't believe LAX even has this much capacity

The 16x daily is usually the summer schedule, but yes they are usually sold. In the height of the summer there's even a domestic 744 on this route that is parked during the winter months. It's one of the hardest upgrades on the network--there are some flights with 4-5 GS members in Y[+]. The departure banks are timed for intl departures at ORD and SFO, so there's more 757s in the mornings and evenings and more A319s/A320s in the middle of the day.

Quoting CALPSAFltSkeds (Reply 33):

Thanks for the update on the 762s and correction on the 763ER total. Your hunch may be correct, which would free up some 752s for ORD-Ireland/MAN or potentially IAD-LIS/MAD/EDI/BHX/SNN/GLA.

I doubt UA will try ORD-Ireland, since they are starting IAD-DUB and there's not much O&D in this market so it's largely connection based as it is. ORD-DUB would just steal traffic from IAD.

I'm hoping the 787s allow for more trips to India. Right now UA is weak in that market, and I'd love a IAH-MAA, IAH-PNQ or IAH-DEL. Ideally these would be operated from SFO with the tech market but that's outside the 788 range, and there may not be enough O&D. *A lacks an India partner so unless you want to fly LH from FRA there's little choice on UA right now.

codc10 · Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:01 am

Quoting VC10er (Reply 37):
Are the 14 767's being fitted with 2 or 3 class? And are the 8 leaving 3 class Pre merger Intl?

8 outgoing are PMCO 2 class birds.

The 763ERs are current domestic 2-class, to be fitted with winglets, AVOD, power, and a J cabin (PMCO BF seat). No international F.

Quoting boilerla (Reply 40):
In the height of the summer there's even a domestic 744 on this route that is parked during the winter months.

N194UA was only reactivated in Summer 2010 for a daily ORD-SFO turn and occasion swap to NRT or ICN as needed. It has left the fleet and is now flying for Atlas Air.

staralliance85 · Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:27 am

The only way I see this happening if UA already know that QR is joining the *A. UA connecting to QR at DOH offers great connections to the Middle East, Africa, India and South East Asia. Vice Versa for QF connecting to UA on flights across America. It makes perfect since for Qatar Airways to join the *A because in the US they fly to JFK, IAH and IAD. Both IAH and IAD are UA hubs and Qr passengers can easily get to EWR UA's hub from JFK. Plus, 5 *A members have frequent flier agreements with QR. Its only a matter of time till they announce their membership.

behramjee · Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:19 am

This is primarily done to poach away the high yielding U.S. Govt traffic that currently flies to DOH from IAD on QR however to operate to Doha via Dubai is nothing short of pure recklessness.

IAD-DXB should always be a standalone terminator nonstop flight operated with a B 777 where as Doha should have been operated in either one of the following manners:

IAD-DOH-RUH-DOH-IAD...cash cow for sure
IAD-DOH-BAH-DOH-IAD...if this got implemented then IAD-KWI should be extended to either RUH or DMM or AUH

BMIFlyer · Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:15 am

Quoting laca773 (Reply 38):
Why does DOH need to be flown via DXB? Not enough 77Es in the fleet right now to do it nonstop?

Looking at the timings, they are taking advantage of ground time in DXB

klwright69 · Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:37 am

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
This is primarily done to poach away the high yielding U.S. Govt traffic that currently flies to DOH from IAD on QR however to operate to Doha via Dubai is nothing short of pure recklessness.

IAD-DXB should always be a standalone terminator nonstop flight operated with a B 777 where as Doha should have been operated in either one of the following manners:

IAD-DOH-RUH-DOH-IAD...cash cow for sure
IAD-DOH-BAH-DOH-IAD...if this got implemented then IAD-KWI should be extended to either RUH or DMM or AUH

I agree with this 100%...

My first impression was that maybe DXB is struggling since they are adding a tag. There is something that doesn't seem right about it this. Again, full flights don't mean high profitability. Why can't UA add another standalone flight to DOH, with a tag on that.

When I saw the thread title I thought this was going to be a new nonstop. But it is a tag to DXB. This is not impressive really.

I wonder if now finally a US carrier will return with a nonstop to the KSA as discussed in the other thread..

Quoting AvSafety46 (Reply 39):
I fly the IAD-DXB flight regularly and almost always full. For the most part it is impossible to get an upgrade. I have not been on a flight yet that that the plane is not full and even a few left behind. If anything they need a second flight. I think a IAH-DXB would work if the T7 can make with a usable load. This would be a great route for the 787. If UA sees a need for it should be IAD-DOH-IAD and leave IAD-DXB-IAD there won’t be a lot of seats for DXB-DOH. This is already cover by QR and EK.

Good point... Something is not right, DXB should be a standalone flight if it is so strong alone.

This is different from KWI and BAH, since those two markets together are probably not as large as to DXB.

Will there be local traffic rights between DXB and DOH?

Anyway it is nice to see a US carrier covering the Persian (or "Arabian" as they say in the Arab world) Gulf.

slcdeltarumd11 · Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:51 am

Quoting g500 (Reply 1):
UA announces IAD-Doha when Qatar is already on the route????

Newark or Chicago would've made more sense in my opinion.

To the middle east?!?! DC is the perfect place for this route military contractors, government, military, oil connections from Houston DC is the best chance for this to work by far

UAL777UK · Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:57 am

Quoting staralliance85 (Reply 42):
Its only a matter of time till they announce their membership.

I hope you are right, it will be great to get QR into Star Alliance and perhaps then create that mini Middle East hub in there back yard for Star Carriers.

chopchop767 · Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:14 pm

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 45):

Why let the plane sit idle when it can be used to ferry more passengers to another destination? I doubt the exclusive rationale behind adding the tag is that the DXB flight isn't doing well.

I'm glad to see UA adding another destination. As the posters have alluded to, there's a market for the Government and Contractors heading in that direction. As opposed to the dartboard used by other carriers, UA has always been pretty conservative with new routes. It's fair to say, they ran the metrics before launching the route. Hopefully, this is a precursor to Qatar joining Star.

STT757 · Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:15 pm

Quoting VC10er (Reply 37):
Are the 14 767's being fitted with 2 or 3 class? And are the 8 leaving 3 class Pre merger Intl?

Two class, they are getting the same treatment as PMCO's 764s (new Lay-flat Businessfirst, new economy seats, AVOD etc..).

Quoting VC10er (Reply 37):
And are the 8 leaving 3 class Pre merger Intl?

The 762s are CO's, with CO's old Businessfirst cabin.

Quoting laca773 (Reply 38):
Too bad about the 762ERs. These birds would be good for routes like HEL, CPN, OSL.

Theoritically they would be, but they are not. The problem is the operating costs for the 762s are identical to the 763, however the 762 holds less passengers and cargo.

Quoting AvSafety46 (Reply 39):
If anything they need a second flight

UA will most likely add IAH-DXB when they have enough 787s, CO (now UA) has the Halliburton contract. Halliburton has it's headquarters split between Houston and Dubai,

Quoting boilerla (Reply 40):
I'm hoping the 787s allow for more trips to India.

CO has mentioned in the past their intentions to launch EWR-Hyderabad, EWR-Chennai and EWR-Bangalore with the 787.

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