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leonardoq
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747-8: A Good Bet?

Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:46 am

Sorry if this thread has been already posted, but just a little question from a humble a.netter.

As a 747 lifetime lover, it is sad to see that no airline has been showing interest in that great aircraft.

With so much money in development and after so many delays we still can see little orders for these frames. Will we see more of these queens of the skies being ordered in the future or was it a program that was born to have a short life?

In your opinion, was the 747-8F and 747-8i a good bet from boeing?
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splitterz
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RE: 747-8: A Good Bet?

Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:59 am

In my humble opinion, no. There just isn't any interest in the aging design. I love the bird and hope she proves me wrong.
 
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Stitch
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RE: 747-8: A Good Bet?

Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:02 am

Quoting leonardoq (Thread starter):
In your opinion, was the 747-8F and 747-8i a good bet from boeing?

In my opinion. no.

I believe the 747-8 offers nothing against the A380-800 and that the A380-800F was never a threat against the 747-400ERF.

As a Boeing stockholder, I believe the 747-8 program was a waste of money and resources.
 
AA737-823
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RE: 747-8: A Good Bet?

Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:39 am

Quoting Splitterz (Reply 1):

In my humble opinion, no. There just isn't any interest in the aging design. I love the bird and hope she proves me wrong.
Quoting Stitch (Reply 2):
In my opinion. no.

I believe the 747-8 offers nothing against the A380-800 and that the A380-800F was never a threat against the 747-400ERF.

As a Boeing stockholder, I believe the 747-8 program was a waste of money and resources.

NO INTEREST? They've sold OVER A HUNDRED. 106, in fact.
That's nearly SEVEN PERCENT of all 747s sold! And the thing's only been flying for a little while!

Quoting leonardoq (Thread starter):
no airline has been showing interest

Is Lufthansa not an airline?
Is Korean Air not an airline?

I realize the orders to date have been slim, particularly for the -8i, but with about 70 orders for freighters, there's no reason to poo-poo the plane.



And what's this about an aging design?

Quoting Splitterz (Reply 1):
There just isn't any interest in the aging design.

The 737 is an "aging" design, yet is still the best selling airliner of all time.
And, when you get down to it, a metal tube, swept wing, semi-monocoque design is what it is- in that sense, the A380 is hardly any more modern than a 747. Granted, the 380 uses some new alloys, but it isn't a composite CFRP design.
Hydraulics are hydraulics.
Pneumatics are pneumatics.
Ailerons are ailerons.

I don't expect the -8 to go down in history as a game-changing aircraft, but to say that it was a bad investment, a poor choice, etc is really playing armchair CEO.
 
ebj1248650
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RE: 747-8: A Good Bet?

Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:42 am

While I'm not sure about further sales of the 747-8i, I have a feeling we haven't come close to seeing the last of the 747-8F sales. Air freight doesn't appear to be diminishing. More 748F sales are probably very likely.
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hannahpa
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RE: 747-8: A Good Bet?

Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:20 am

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 3):
The 737 is an "aging" design, yet is still the best selling airliner of all time.
And, when you get down to it, a metal tube, swept wing, semi-monocoque design is what it is- in that sense, the A380 is hardly any more modern than a 747. Granted, the 380 uses some new alloys, but it isn't a composite CFRP design.
Hydraulics are hydraulics.
Pneumatics are pneumatics.
Ailerons are ailerons.

I don't expect the -8 to go down in history as a game-changing aircraft, but to say that it was a bad investment, a poor choice, etc is really playing armchair CEO.

   Well said! (Yeah, Put that in your pipe and smoke it) LOL

I, too, hope that the -8I becomes more popular. IMHO, I think that some airlines are just waiting to see if the performance numbers are going to pan out as Boeing claims. If the stats are true, then they will come.....
 
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kanban
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RE: 747-8: A Good Bet?

Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:37 am

The 747-8 is a niche holder... the nose loading freighter has a place and will replace older 747 freighters.. those waiting for an A380 freighter will have a long wait.

The 747-8I may never be a big seller but it extends the line into the future in a niche market.

Too often we look at success or was it a good bet in the short term.. if sales ended today.. it would be considered a wasted effort... if sales continue even at a low rate for 10-15 years.. it would be seen as a good bet. For comparisons look at sales of a top of the line Rolls Royce vs a Cadillac... would you say in comparison the producing the Rolls was a bad bet?
 
davescj
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RE: 747-8: A Good Bet?

Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:58 am

I think it is a bummer only LH has the 748i. I was hoping UA or DL would order some (but I don't think they will). I doubt AF will order any, but I'm hoping KLM might use the 748i to replace the 744 and that AY will use them to replace the MD11s.

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RE: 747-8: A Good Bet?

Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:19 am

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 3):
but to say that it was a bad investment, a poor choice, etc is really playing armchair CEO.

Isn't that what the OP was inviting us to do?  
Quoting davescj (Reply 7):
but I'm hoping KLM might use the 748i to replace the 744 and that AY will use them to replace the MD11s.

Then you will be disappointed on the first count and you're already a bit behind the times on the second.
 
UAL747
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RE: 747-8: A Good Bet?

Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:25 am

Quoting Splitterz (Reply 1):
There just isn't any interest in the aging design.

Ugh, I hate this mentality...

The airplane is still a flying metal tube, and it's been selling for over 70 years.

UAL

BTW: The Airbus A330-200/300, A340-300/400/500/600 are just stretched, re-engined, re-winged A300's you know.

[Edited 2011-12-12 19:26:38]
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RE: 747-8: A Good Bet?

Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:05 am

Quoting UAL747 (Reply 9):
and it's been selling for over 70 years

Just remind us how many were sold in 1941...  
Quoting UAL747 (Reply 9):
BTW: The Airbus A330-200/300, A340-300/400/500/600 are just stretched, re-engined, re-winged A300's you know.

Quite what this has to do with the 747...  
 
AngMoh
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RE: 747-8: A Good Bet?

Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:42 am

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 3):
I don't expect the -8 to go down in history as a game-changing aircraft, but to say that it was a bad investment, a poor choice, etc is really playing armchair CEO.

Boeing has declared to the stockmarket that it is in a forward loss position on the 747-8/8i. Nothing to do with being an armchair CEO - just reading what Boeing themselves has published to the financial markets. That is not a good investment, no matter how you turn it. Whether it was just a decision which could have been made better or a downright distaster is to be determined by an A.net flame-war.
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bringiton
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RE: 747-8: A Good Bet?

Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:35 am

If they sell a 100 odd more , and another 50 PAX varients , then i'd say as a stockholder i am satisfied...If they manage to keep the line producing 747's till when the Y3 EIS's , i'd also be happy. Anything short would be disappointing and worth nothing more than to keep airbus honest..
 
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RE: 747-8: A Good Bet?

Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:19 am

While the 748F&i may nut be Boeings cas cow for the years to come, I still believe that there will be sales on a slow rate which will bring the program out of the forward loss position. How much planes we need for that? probably double of todays orders, but over the years they will come according to my crystal ball.

Can't wait by the way to go on LHs 748i.

regards

Flyglobal
 
jayeshrulz
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RE: 747-8: A Good Bet?

Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:52 am

One sentence.

Forty Year old design.Nothing New.
There have been alot of threads in the past for the same. You can read out there.Some fantastic things are pointed out by fellow a.netters!
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RE: 747-8: A Good Bet?

Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:20 am

While the -8I has completely failed to sell in respectable numbers, there are now also evidence to suggest the -8F may be facing a difficult future, owing to the outstanding performance of the 777F and the disappointing ditto of the -8F. It's not a 777F can load more than a -8F, or that it has a nose-door. It's just that many airlines have crunched the numbers, and found there's more money to be made flying a 777F than -8F. A lot more, in fact.

Obviously there'll still be a select few cargo carriers for which a nose-door is vital, but for almost everybody else I suspect the future reads "777F" and not "747-8F"; Emirates Cargo have already cancelled -8F orders in favour of 777F.

The poor engine performance, overweight and avionics issues have of course not helped the -8F.

For passenger operations it's even easier; either you're unable to do simple calculations if the 8I looks more attractive to you than an A380, or you've got be seriously into exploiting a very specific nieche if you're buying both VLA offerings.
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Flyingsottsman
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RE: 747-8: A Good Bet?

Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:59 am

I think just like in the 70s and 80 many of the worlds airlines had a 747/DC-10 combination maybe in the 2000s airlines might have a A380/748i combination. I hope so I love the 747 and I hope it stays around for years to come.
 
Burkhard
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RE: 747-8: A Good Bet?

Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:58 am

Many airlines currently wait for hard numbers to decide what to do at the upper end, and it looks like they do not trust Boeings promises that the 748I is almost as efficent as the A388 - since if that were true every purchase of the 77W would be a failure.

Why don't we agree to discuss this again in 3 years and not before?
 
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RE: 747-8: A Good Bet?

Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:19 pm

Well, the 747-8i/f might be an old design , neverless its a remake of something good:

And which is of Topsellers is a new plane itself?

330/340/310 are basicly A-300's which is a 35+ year old design
32S /320NEO's are basicy an A-320 which is a 24+ year design
737NG/MAX ... are an 737 with an 45+ year design
777's are an 20+ year design


Only the 380's and 787´s are basicly a new design and none of the old airline had troubles like them before delivering!

May the 747 live on forever !  
I still miss Trans World Airlines and the L-1011
 
by738
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RE: 747-8: A Good Bet?

Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:32 pm

The amount of investment required (compared with a new design) is actually realtively small and so they dont need nearly as many sold to "break even", infact it cant be much more than 150. I cant see Boeing being particularly worried, its 100 odd frames that theyve won that could have gone elsewhere. I suspect orders will continue to trickle in.
 
liftsifter
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RE: 747-8: A Good Bet?

Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:24 pm

Quoting Jim Albaugh here, "We've got the planes of tomorrow, today."

I don't quite think the 747-8 is the "plane of tomorrow" when everyone is looking at saving the all mighty dollar.
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Worldliner
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RE: 747-8: A Good Bet?

Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:01 pm

I can see more airlines ordering the 747-8i, particularly after it starts commercial service.

Some airlines still have a few 747-400's and havent ordered the A380, or have ordered them in small amounts. Perhaps these airlines can take 8's as they will be delivered quickly, and the fleet commonality is a big plus.
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RE: 747-8: A Good Bet?

Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:50 pm

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 3):
And, when you get down to it, a metal tube, swept wing, semi-monocoque design is what it is- in that sense, the A380 is hardly any more modern than a 747. Granted, the 380 uses some new alloys, but it isn't a composite CFRP design.
Hydraulics are hydraulics.
Pneumatics are pneumatics.
Ailerons are ailerons.

I think the first time we saw a metal tube, swept wing with jets on pods hanging off struts, semi-monocoque design would be the B-47.


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UAL747
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RE: 747-8: A Good Bet?

Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:16 pm

Quoting PM (Reply 10):
Quite what this has to do with the 747...

The 748 is not an old design. It may have a similar fuselage and look, but everything, the wings, engines, components, electronics, high lift devices, aerodynamics, avionics, interior, etc., is new on that plane. Saying the 748 design is old and outdated is like saying the A340/330 is outdated because it looks like a stretched A300. There's nothing old about the 748 other than it still has a hump on top just as there is nothing old about the A340-600.

UAL
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WarpSpeed
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RE: 747-8: A Good Bet?

Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:47 pm

Quoting bringiton (Reply 12):
If they sell a 100 odd more , and another 50 PAX varients , then i'd say as a stockholder i am satisfied...If they manage to keep the line producing 747's till when the Y3 EIS's , i'd also be happy. Anything short would be disappointing and worth nothing more than to keep airbus honest..

However, stepping back and looking across all BCA programs, I wonder if Boeing could have dealt with the 787 problems/issues - design, production, reproduction - on a more timely basis but for the 747-8 program. If so, it may also have been able to launch the NSA rather than go with the 737MAX. IMHO, even if the 747-8 turns a profit, the program prevented Boeing Sr. Management from maximizing shareholder value at an enterprise level.
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canoecarrier
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RE: 747-8: A Good Bet?

Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:51 pm

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 3):

NO INTEREST? They've sold OVER A HUNDRED. 106, in fact.
That's nearly SEVEN PERCENT of all 747s sold! And the thing's only been flying for a little while!

I believe Boeing said the break even point for the program is around 370 aircraft. So, they have a way to go to make the program profitable.

Not saying I don't hope the program is a success, but to say there's a lot of interest doesn't necessarily mean the project will be profitable. The same could be said about the A380 program.
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SEA
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RE: 747-8: A Good Bet?

Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:42 pm

I don't think Boeing expected the 747-8i to be a massive sales hit. If they did, I think they'd have expended more money and created a new VLA from scratch. 100+ 747-8 sales may not be as impressive as the A380, but it's nothing to scoff at either. I doubt that we'll ever see any EK-style huge orders for the -8i like we have for the A388, but I would be surprised if there aren't several other smaller orders over the next couple years. I could see a few airlines ordering some, such as BA, VS, CX, SA and more orders from LH.
 
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RE: 747-8: A Good Bet?

Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:51 pm

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 3):
Is Lufthansa not an airline?
Is Korean Air not an airline?



Do not forget Arik Air and maybe Air China.
 
coffeebar
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RE: 747-8: A Good Bet?

Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:31 pm

also LY will have to upgrade their 6 744's, and we all know there isn't any A380's in their future...
 
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RE: 747-8: A Good Bet?

Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:25 pm

Quoting coffeebar (Reply 29):
also LY will have to upgrade their 6 744's

...with 777s.
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: 747-8: A Good Bet?

Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:50 pm

Quoting kanban (Reply 6):
those waiting for an A380 freighter will have a long wait.

A long, long wait.

For the B-747-8I, don't forget the USAF will be looking to replace the current 2 VC-25s (AF-1) with 3 aircraft before the end of this decade, and the 4 E-4Bs need replacing. My guess is the USAF will need 6-8 aircraft to replace the E-4B fleet. So, just to the US Government there is another 10, or so. If the YAL-1A program should get funding returned (doubtful at this point) that will be an order for 12 B-747-8Fs.

The B-747-8 has a future, but we may have to wait to see it.
 
Acheron
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RE: 747-8: A Good Bet?

Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:04 am

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 3):
The 737 is an "aging" design, yet is still the best selling airliner of all time.

Hard not be when it has been in production for over 40 years, far longer than the competition, and currently the only alternative in that segment of the market.

And the fuselage has remained pretty much unchanged since the days of the 727, so yeah, its an aging design, fuselage wise.
 
SKY1
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RE: 747-8: A Good Bet?

Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:12 am

Boeing has not much to lose with the lastest 747, I think Airbus did a bet with a lot more risk when they decided to develop the design in those days called A3XX project. The 747-8 is not made from zero, the 380 does!

Dunno what number of frames Boeing must to sell in order to make money but for sure less than Airbus its A-380

Quoting coffeebar (Reply 29):
also LY will have to upgrade their 6 744's, and we all know there isn't any A380's in their future...
Quoting PM (Reply 30):

...with 777s.

....replacing 744's by 777's have more to do with "downgrading" than "upgrading"  
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flightsimer
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RE: 747-8: A Good Bet?

Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:16 am

747-8I Orders so far...

20x Lufthansa (20 options)
9x BBJ
5x Korean Airlines (5 options?, i cant remember or not)
5x Air China (pending approval)
15x Hainan Airlines (pending approval)
2x Arik Air
4x Transaero (to be firmed)

Total: 60 firm(ish) plus 20 or 25 options
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cosmofly
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RE: 747-8: A Good Bet?

Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:19 am

Quoting leonardoq (Thread starter):
was the 747-8F and 747-8i a good bet from boeing?

It is a necessary bet.

No one can argue that it has no potential.
It helps to check Airbus' dominance and profit in the 4 holer VLA space.
It is the cheapest way to maintain an up to date 4 holer in its product portfolio for unforeseen opportunities and necessities.

The final analysis will come after customers get a real world sense of its performance, Boeing finishes weight reduction, GE finishes engine updates, and Boeing and customers fully exploit the OSU space.
 
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RE: 747-8: A Good Bet?

Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:44 am

Quoting SKY1 (Reply 33):
....replacing 744's by 777's have more to do with "downgrading" than "upgrading"

"Up" or "down", it has been the preferred replacement choice for many of the world's operators of 747-400s and it would make a lot more sense for El Al than would 747-8s.
 
liftsifter
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RE: 747-8: A Good Bet?

Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:59 am

I've also heard that Boeing is creating the next Air Force One? Seems plausible, although a few years ago, I heard the A380 was being considered. Not quite sure.
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SKY1
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RE: 747-8: A Good Bet?

Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:00 am

Quoting PM (Reply 36):

"Up" or "down", it has been the preferred replacement choice for many of the world's operators of 747-400s

I'm not saying the opposite and it's true that is not easy to imagine that LY will go for the 747-8I ...but like cofeebar says the chance of seeing El Al purchasing the A380 is zero or nearly zero.
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kanban
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RE: 747-8: A Good Bet?

Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:00 am

Quoting Acheron (Reply 32):
And the fuselage has remained pretty much unchanged since the days of the 727, so yeah, its an aging design, fuselage wise.


The 737 fuselage goes back to the 707... different parts but essentially the same... Question though.. all those who want something other than tube and wings.. where are you ideas.. do we go to a square tube? They can not redesign aircraft like cars like adding fins, or chrome for people who think change is important. Do we stop using something just because it's design is old... even if it works?

The same is true of the 747.. the design works, can not be beat, is compatible with airlines, terminals and the public... and nobody is ready for a blended wing. Consider the 8F and 8I as extensions of an already successful product line.
 
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RE: 747-8: A Good Bet?

Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:27 am

Quoting SKY1 (Reply 38):
the chance of seeing El Al purchasing the A380 is zero or nearly zero

Or even less than zero but what's that got to do with this thread?  
 
AngMoh
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RE: 747-8: A Good Bet?

Wed Dec 14, 2011 2:05 am

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 31):
For the B-747-8I, don't forget the USAF will be looking to replace the current 2 VC-25s (AF-1) with 3 aircraft before the end of this decade, and the 4 E-4Bs need replacing. My guess is the USAF will need 6-8 aircraft to replace the E-4B fleet. So, just to the US Government there is another 10, or so. If the YAL-1A program should get funding returned (doubtful at this point) that will be an order for 12 B-747-8Fs.

Don't count military sales as commercial sales - doesn't matter if it is 737/767/A330 based and especially VC-25 replacements. These are completely different contracts which huge changes. Yes, they use the same basic airframe, but the considerations are different and the additional money pumped into them is so enormous that it makes no sense to put them into the same bucket. Look what happened with the presidential helicopter....
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gunsontheroof
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RE: 747-8: A Good Bet?

Wed Dec 14, 2011 2:55 am

Quoting flightsimer (Reply 34):
747-8I Orders so far...

20x Lufthansa (20 options)
9x BBJ
5x Korean Airlines (5 options?, i cant remember or not)
5x Air China (pending approval)
15x Hainan Airlines (pending approval)
2x Arik Air
4x Transaero (to be firmed)

Total: 60 firm(ish) plus 20 or 25 options

I really fail to see how these numbers are indicative of a "failure." I suppose in an age of 100+ frame orders for narrowbodies and blockbuster next-gen widebody program launches, it looks like small beans, but given the market for VLAs, these aren't exactly numbers to pull your hair out over. The A380 wasn't exactly flying off the shelf at this stage in its development either and it seems to be doing just fine having satisfied its customers and garnered some new sales since it entered service. Will the 747-8I be as successful as the rest of the family? Certainly not, but I think it's got some good years ahead of it and I'd be surprised if the freighter didn't make the program profitable over time. People should keep in mind that fewer and fewer airlines are operating aircraft of this size these days--the big jets aren't going to be pulling in 40+ frame orders (outside of the UAE, anyways...) and thus aren't going to reach the spectacular numbers you see with the more popular smaller jets.
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rwessel
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RE: 747-8: A Good Bet?

Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:47 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 23):
I think the first time we saw a metal tube, swept wing with jets on pods hanging off struts, semi-monocoque design would be the B-47.

Me-262?

Well, OK, monocoque fuselage rather than semi-monocoque, and not all metal.


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hal9213
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RE: 747-8: A Good Bet?

Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:51 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 23):
I think the first time we saw a metal tube, swept wing with jets on pods hanging off struts, semi-monocoque design would be the B-47.

And it shares 75%! I mean.... they only added a "7", right?   

Seriously, my short opinion: Freighter: Success. 8i: Fail.
 
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Revelation
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RE: 747-8: A Good Bet?

Wed Dec 14, 2011 2:27 pm

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 42):

I really fail to see how these numbers are indicative of a "failure." I suppose in an age of 100+ frame orders for narrowbodies and blockbuster next-gen widebody program launches, it looks like small beans, but given the market for VLAs, these aren't exactly numbers to pull your hair out over.

Statements like the following are, though:

Quote:

Boeing’s CEO, Jim McNerney, on previous earnings calls, said the program would be profitable if some 350 747s are sold (this after a previous write off of more than $1bn, it will be recalled). We think this is wishful thinking. Wall Street seems to as well, expecting another write-off.

Ref: http://leehamnews.wordpress.com/tag/748-8/

And with the Cargolux negotiations fiasco and Atlas refusing to accept three early-build (heavy) frames happening after this was wriiten, I doubt things are looking any better.

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 42):
The A380 wasn't exactly flying off the shelf at this stage in its development either and it seems to be doing just fine having satisfied its customers and garnered some new sales since it entered service.

Many of those sales (namely BA) being ones that Boeing dearly wished would have gone to the 747-8.

Quoting rwessel (Reply 43):
Me-262?

I thought about that one too, but it was much slower so it didn't get the degree of wing sweep that the B-47 and modern airliners have. Aerodynamically it's a totally different beast.

http://www.amazon.com/Legend-Legacy-...oks&ie=UTF8&qid=1323872520&sr=1-14 really drives home how groundbreaking the B-47 was. Good read, and damn cheap as a used book.
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JAAlbert
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RE: 747-8: A Good Bet?

Wed Dec 14, 2011 3:23 pm

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 16):
The poor engine performance, overweight and avionics issues have of course not helped the -8F
Quoting cosmofly (Reply 35):
The final analysis will come after customers get a real world sense of its performance, Boeing finishes weight reduction, GE finishes engine updates, and Boeing and customers fully exploit the OSU space.

I believe one of our esteemed Anetters (lightsaber?) referred to his sources as stating that with the PIP in the works, several airlines are looking again at the 747-8 as an option. How interesting is that!

I'm glad Boeing made the plane. You win some, you lose some - sometimes markets change or are different than anticipated - it's just part of being in business. The smaller 737s and 318s didn't do so well, the 340 had a short life - but both companies survived.
 
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kanban
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RE: 747-8: A Good Bet?

Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:16 pm

Quoting AngMoh (Reply 41):
Don't count military sales as commercial sales

Military derivatives do count as commercial product sales for the basic aircraft which, generally,is transferred to a non commercial outfitting division, example C-40 and P-8. The procurement comes in two parts.. the airframe from commercial, the outfitted plane from military.
 
flightsimer
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RE: 747-8: A Good Bet?

Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:15 am

She was certified about an hour ago.

Boeing 747-8I Certified (by flightsimer Dec 14 2011 in Civil Aviation)
Commercial / Airline Pilot
 
VC10er
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RE: 747-8: A Good Bet?

Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:29 am

It could be a sleeper. I think a disappointing start does not preclude a financial disaster. Should Koren and Lufthansa report great things, and fleet planners start flying them and see something they like from financials and have a need for something between a 777-300 and an A380?

I think the jury is still out.

And I am the CEO of a major airline!



(no I'm not)
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
trigged
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RE: 747-8: A Good Bet?

Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:26 pm

I keep hearing all of this talk about it being an old design. The difference between the original design and the latest design is really marginal in all aspects. The wing has differences to it, some structural changes, etc., and the fuselage has some changes but why is there this huge push to label it as "outdated?" If something works, and works well, why change it?

Look at the automotive industry. Sure, there are crumple zones, use of aluminum/composites, airbags, etc. but are they truly that different than a car from the late 1930's? 4 wheels, a motor, doors, roof, etc. You can tweak the design and improve, but why push to have a total redesign every 10-20 years?

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