OOer
Posts: 995
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 2:10 pm

RE: Delta To Give All Ground Employees Raises In '12

Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:39 am

I'll tell you what...

I will give you a paycut of 40%. Then I will give you 5 raises of 3% each. How happy would you be?
 
474218
Posts: 4510
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:27 pm

RE: Delta To Give All Ground Employees Raises In '12

Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:02 am

Quoting ooer (Reply 50):
I'll tell you what...

I will give you a paycut of 40%. Then I will give you 5 raises of 3% each. How happy would you be?

Without the 40% pay cut there was a real possibility there would not have been a job, let alone 5 raises of 3% each?
 
Maverick623
Posts: 4708
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:13 am

RE: Delta To Give All Ground Employees Raises In '12

Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:09 am

Quoting ooer (Reply 50):
I'll tell you what...

No, I'll tell you what:

Full and immediate restoration of the highest/best wage scale Delta ever had, adjusted for inflation. You might see one or two awesome paychecks, and then the ghost of Eastern comes around to put you in your place.

Get over yourself. The industry has changed since the mid-90s.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
cokepopper
Topic Author
Posts: 487
Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 9:44 pm

RE: Delta To Give All Ground Employees Raises In '12

Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:38 am

Quoting ooer (Reply 50):
I'll tell you what...

I will give you a paycut of 40%. Then I will give you 5 raises of 3% each. How happy would you be?

Thats just it, if your so unhappy, LEAVE. Many of us have a grip on reality and realize that
the industry has changed and we don't live in the past and dwell.
We are HAPPY that we will see a pay increase AND a Profit sharing check.
Move on or move out.

The world that you are stuck in is a world of $40 a barrel for fuel. Move on
 
OOer
Posts: 995
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 2:10 pm

RE: Delta To Give All Ground Employees Raises In '12

Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:18 am

Quoting cokepopper (Reply 53):
The world that you are stuck in is a world of $40 a barrel for fuel. Move on

Delta and many other airlines aren't having problems making profits. Even during the worst recession since the great depression...Delta has managed to rake in billions in profits. Including an estimated $800 million this year.

The mentality that everyone should "just be happy to have a job" or "if you don't like it, leave!" is pathetic. Using that same thought process Southwest should have cut their employees pay by 40% over the past decade because everyone else was losing money...regardless of their individual financial shape.

Instead of being outraged over the fact that not just the CEO, but most of the executive team has seen their compensation GROW over the same period of time...you trot the company line and create excuses. You know what...why don't you all work for minimum wage...who cares right? Everyone's just lucky to have a job.
 
Maverick623
Posts: 4708
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:13 am

RE: Delta To Give All Ground Employees Raises In '12

Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:32 am

Quoting ooer (Reply 54):
Delta and many other airlines aren't having problems making profits

A bold faced lie if I ever saw one. Shame on you.

Quoting ooer (Reply 54):
Even during the worst recession since the great depression...Delta has managed to rake in billions in profits. Including an estimated $800 million this year.

And do you honestly believe they'd make 800 million dollars if the pay scale were reset to 1995 levels?

Quoting ooer (Reply 54):

The mentality that everyone should "just be happy to have a job" or "if you don't like it, leave!" is pathetic.

Being unhappy and refusing to do anything about it is pathetic.

Quoting ooer (Reply 54):
Using that same thought process Southwest should have cut their employees pay by 40% over the past decade because everyone else was losing money.

Bull. Your thought process is that since Southwest is making money, every airline should staff and pay like Southwest does because Southwest is making money.

Quoting ooer (Reply 54):


Instead of being outraged over the fact that not just the CEO, but most of the executive team has seen their compensation GROW over the same period of time

This thread ain't about executive pay, it's about your inability to accept that airlines exist to make money for shareholders, not employees.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
OOer
Posts: 995
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 2:10 pm

RE: Delta To Give All Ground Employees Raises In '12

Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:58 am

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 55):
This thread ain't about executive pay, it's about your inability to accept that airlines exist to make money for shareholders, not employees.

So the employees should just sit back, bend over, and smile?

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 55):
Quoting ooer (Reply 54):
Delta and many other airlines aren't having problems making profits

A bold faced lie if I ever saw one. Shame on you.

Over the past 3 years the economy has been in the tank. What have been the financial results of the U.S. airlines over that time?

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 55):
And do you honestly believe they'd make 800 million dollars if the pay scale were reset to 1995 levels?

Of course not. You argue profits over people, I argue people over profits. Where is the balance?

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 55):
Being unhappy and refusing to do anything about it is pathetic.

Many of them did try to do something...join a union and bargain for their wages.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 55):
Bull. Your thought process is that since Southwest is making money, every airline should staff and pay like Southwest does because Southwest is making money.

That's not my thought process at all. My thought process is that since most U.S. airlines have been making decent profits over the past couple of years...they should pass a good chunk of those profits to the employees that make it possible for those profits to exist.
 
LAXtoATL
Posts: 596
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RE: Delta To Give All Ground Employees Raises In '12

Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:41 am

Quoting ooer (Reply 56):
So the employees should just sit back, bend over, and smile?

No! If you are unhappy in your job and or don't like the company - YOU should do something about it! Stop bitching and moaning and leave the company or the industry if you are unhappy. This is a free society we live in, no one is forcing you to work in any particular job or industry, so if you are so miserable that you complain about a raise YOU should do something about it and get out of the situation or realize that the problem is not with the company or industry you work in but with your own attitude! If you can't leave and find a job or industry where you will be happier that should tell you that you have it pretty damn good where you are at now.

Quoting ooer (Reply 56):
Many of them did try to do something...join a union and bargain for their wages.

Well, Delta employees have said they don't want a union. Either you come to grips with it or you are free to seek employment somewhere else where you can join a union. But I don't get the infatuation with the union, unionized NW employees were earning less wages than their Delta counterparts and when the election was loss those same people screaming at the top of their lungs how great their union contract was were in an instant screaming that they wanted to be immediately brought up to Delta wages (never mind the fact that they lovely union was holding up the integration because of their appeal - so the union negotiated lower wages in the first place and then prolonged their former members from getting increases by filing a meritless appeal [and yes it was a meritless appeal when the board they got to change the voting rules even said it was without merit]). And yet you still pine for the union and its bargaining power, says something about your ability to rationally reason. Hey, I think I have a great idea for you - resign from your current position and apply for a job at union headquarters. Its just one of many options available to you, so you can stop being miserable in the job you currently have!
 
NWAESC
Posts: 999
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RE: Delta To Give All Ground Employees Raises In '12

Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:50 am

Quoting cokepopper (Reply 53):
Many of us have a grip on reality and realize that
the industry has changed and we don't live in the past and dwell.
We are HAPPY that we will see a pay increase AND a Profit sharing check.
Move on or move out.

Likewise, many of us have a "grip on reality," and see these moves for what they are. Again, nothing wrong with getting an increase in base rates. But believing that it is borne out of some sort of corporate benevolence is just naive.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 55):
This thread ain't about executive pay, it's about your inability to accept that airlines exist to make money for shareholders, not employees.

Actually, it's about a proposed pay increase for DL's U.S. based employees in July of '12. Others made it about OOer, and you piled on.

Quoting ooer (Reply 56):
I argue people over profits

And I argue it alongside you. Maybe someday in our lifetimes we'll see that, but since that would require the long term investment in labor- the same way a company might invest in land or equipment- it won't happen anytime soon. We (Americans) are so beat down that we make it too easy *not* to change. Just look at how many times the "you're lucky to have a job," and other stale memes have been tossed around here....
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
cmf
Posts: 3120
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RE: Delta To Give All Ground Employees Raises In '12

Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:21 am

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 55):
This thread ain't about executive pay, it's about your inability to accept that airlines exist to make money for shareholders, not employees.

So what is the issue with employees trying to get as much as possible for themselves?

Quoting LAXtoATL (Reply 57):
This is a free society we live in, no one is forcing you to work in any particular job or industry, so if you are so miserable that you complain about a raise YOU should do something about it and get out of the situation or realize that the problem is not with the company or industry you work in but with your own attitude! If you can't leave and find a job or industry where you will be happier that should tell you that you have it pretty damn good where you are at now.

Sounds a bit unreasonable. What is wrong with trying to fix things inside the company where you have vested much of your effort?
Don’t repeat earlier generations mistakes. Learn history for a better future.
 
OOer
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RE: Delta To Give All Ground Employees Raises In '12

Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:33 am

Quoting nwaesc (Reply 58):
And I argue it alongside you. Maybe someday in our lifetimes we'll see that, but since that would require the long term investment in labor- the same way a company might invest in land or equipment- it won't happen anytime soon. We (Americans) are so beat down that we make it too easy *not* to change. Just look at how many times the "you're lucky to have a job," and other stale memes have been tossed around here....

Unfortunately you are correct. Corporate greed has been fueled by the belief of "me" instead of the belief of "we". Add to that the ability by the ultra-rich to successfully convince the working class to all turn against each other and you have the perfect recipe for a society of the very few who have, and the many who have not.

It is no coincidence that the middle class was strongest when unionization rates in this country were at it's peak. The sooner society come out from under this spell the better.

With so many people with trolling this line...

Quoting LAXtoATL (Reply 57):
No! If you are unhappy in your job and or don't like the company - YOU should do something about it! Stop bitching and moaning and leave the company or the industry if you are unhappy. This is a free society we live in, no one is forcing you to work in any particular job or industry, so if you are so miserable that you complain about a raise YOU should do something about it and get out of the situation or realize that the problem is not with the company or industry you work in but with your own attitude! If you can't leave and find a job or industry where you will be happier that should tell you that you have it pretty damn good where you are at now.

...that promising future gets further and further away. Last I checked it was "We the people in order to form a more perfect union..." and not "I the corporation in order to bring shareholders the most profits".

We shall see...
 
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mayor
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RE: Delta To Give All Ground Employees Raises In '12

Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:48 am

Quoting nwaesc (Reply 58):
Likewise, many of us have a "grip on reality," and see these moves for what they are. Again, nothing wrong with getting an increase in base rates. But believing that it is borne out of some sort of corporate benevolence is just naive.

No, you don't. All you see is what you WANT to see and that is the union line. The anti-union employees see it differently than you do, but that's not good enough for you. You imply that they're dumb and your not. What makes YOU so much better and smarter than they are? I wonder what your reaction would be, IF, after the representation issues were decided in DL's favor, the company had just decided to do nothing? Would you be bitching about it just as much as I hear, now? What it all comes down to, in your mind, is this...........everyone should be union...........even if it isn't necessary. That about right?

Quoting nwaesc (Reply 58):
Actually, it's about a proposed pay increase for DL's U.S. based employees in July of '12. Others made it about OOer, and you piled on.

OOer, in making the statement that they did, took the chance of getting piled on.

Some people on here (you know who you are) tried to make it an evil conspiracy on the part of the company.....and we all know where THAT reasoning comes from.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
lax777lr
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RE: Delta To Give All Ground Employees Raises In '12

Sat Dec 17, 2011 7:25 am

The nerve of DL giving more money to employees! Could they get any more greedy?!
 
NWAESC
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Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:02 pm

RE: Delta To Give All Ground Employees Raises In '12

Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:57 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 61):
No, you don't. All you see is what you WANT to see and that is the union line. The anti-union employees see it differently than you do, but that's not good enough for you. You imply that they're dumb and your not. What makes YOU so much better and smarter than they are? I wonder what your reaction would be, IF, after the representation issues were decided in DL's favor, the company had just decided to do nothing? Would you be bitching about it just as much as I hear, now? What it all comes down to, in your mind, is this...........everyone should be union...........even if it isn't necessary. That about right?

Not. Even. Close. On any of the above.

Quoting mayor (Reply 61):
Some people on here (you know who you are) tried to make it an evil conspiracy on the part of the company.....and we all know where THAT reasoning comes from.

I'm not sure where all this tinfoil hat stuff is coming from. It's not a conspiracy at all. It's a shrewd/calculated move on any businesses' part.
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Delta To Give All Ground Employees Raises In '12

Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:00 pm

Quoting nwaesc (Reply 64):

Don't get me wrong nwa, I actually agree with you. Gotta keep the folks happy to keep them quiet but shrewd?
What gets measured gets done.
 
NWAESC
Posts: 999
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RE: Delta To Give All Ground Employees Raises In '12

Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:10 pm

(chuckle) Yes, shrewd.

As in: intelligent, smart, practical...  
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
cmf
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RE: Delta To Give All Ground Employees Raises In '12

Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:34 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 61):
No, you don't. All you see is what you WANT to see and that is the union line. The anti-union employees see it differently than you do, but that's not good enough for you. You imply that they're dumb and your not. What makes YOU so much better and smarter than they are? I wonder what your reaction would be, IF, after the representation issues were decided in DL's favor, the company had just decided to do nothing? Would you be bitching about it just as much as I hear, now? What it all comes down to, in your mind, is this...........everyone should be union...........even if it isn't necessary. That about right?

With all due respect. Have you considered the points you're making are just the opposite extreme of what you portray?

Most of us are living in an area in between but far away from the extremes.
Don’t repeat earlier generations mistakes. Learn history for a better future.
 
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DL747400
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RE: Delta To Give All Ground Employees Raises In '12

Sat Dec 17, 2011 7:53 pm

Quoting ih8b6 (Reply 7):
No matter how much it seems to disappoint you, it's a raise. I could go on but I'd probably finally be banned.


OK then please allow me to continue where you left off?

There are tens of thousands of longtime DL/NW employees who are downright ecstatic that after nearly two decades of this...................................

1. billions and billions in losses

2. skyrocketing levels of debt

3. revenue that trails the industry

4. tens of thousands of (voluntary) layoffs

5. pay puts of more than 21% for most remaining employees (more for some)

6. misguided leadership (including a few who were bordering on criminals)

7. multiple rounds of corporate restructuring

8. terrible or no marketing of the airline

9. cancelled or deferred new aircraft orders and grounded airplanes

10. no investment in the product or the brand

11. paying customers asked to fly in aging aircraft that were dirty, worn, stinky, and tired-looking

12. plunging customer service levels

13. highest DOT complaint numbers in the industry

14. highest numbers of delayed/lost baggage complaints to DOT in the industry

15. lowest DOT on-time performance numbers in the industry

16. closing or shrinking hubs

17. bankruptcy and and attempted hostile takeover

18. Employees who are ashamed to tell their friends and family that they work for Delta, and often refuse to do so, hiding their IDs when they are in public.


That we are now seeing this instead.........................


1. a solidly profitable Delta Air Lines that is generating billions in profits

2. paying down debt

3. generating levels of revenue exceeding industry average in many, many areas

4. hiring in many departments throughout the airline

5. pay increases, profit sharing, and other benefits enhancements (including positive space passes good anywhere in the world that DL flys)

6. strong and proven commitment from a leadership team that is committed to preserving our heritage, valuing employees and running the airline as a business which offers customers products and services that they value and are willing to pay for

7. a flexible business plan able to evolve with the changing economic conditions, allowing the airline to incur billions in increased fuel expenses while able to generate significant profits

8. a very aggressive marketing plan which includes a strong focus on continued growth in the corporate sector

9. significant purchases of new (777s) and used (MD-90s) aircraft, plus a large order of next-generation aircraft (737-900ERs) for fleet replacement

10. massive investment in the product and the brand, presenting to the world a consistent picture of Delta as a strong airline that is proud of it's heritage and confident in it's future

11. new interiors offering customers a clean, fresh and updated environment in which they can spend their time with us enjoying WIFI and other onboard video entertainment options

12. very good customer satisfaction scores which continue to improve

13. complaint numbers far lower than many competitors, with more work left to do but clearly moving in the right direction

14. greatly improved baggage delivery scores (at times the best among the largest leading airlines), but again with more work to do

15. greatly-improved on-time performance stats

16. continuing to shrink hubs which are loss-making or under performing (CVG, MEM) while redeploying those assets to markets where they can generate strong, consistent profits and allow for growth and expansion (LGA, ATL, etc.)

17. a strong global airline that has just completed one of the smoothest, most successful airline mergers in history and is an acquirer rather than an acquiree

18. Employees who are proud and can hold their heads high when they say, "I work for D E L T A."


As an employee, which airline would you rather work for?


As a customer, which airline would you rather fly?


As an investor, where would you rather invest your money?


As a corporation, where would you rather spend your business travel dollars?


As a foreign carrier looking for a codeshare or alliance partner, which airline would you rather have as your partner?


As someone else has said earlier in this thread, Haters will Hate. Negativity will continue to exist. Sad but true. The world has changed. Get onboard and be part of the group who are helping to move the airline forward. If you are one who is a Hater and or someone who wants to take-take-take and refuses to help push, get out of the way and find another job.

FLAME AWAY
From First to Worst: The history of Airliners.net.

All posts reflect my opinions, not those of my employer or any other company.
 
SkyPriorityDTW
Posts: 33
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2010 3:48 am

RE: Delta To Give All Ground Employees Raises In '12

Sat Dec 17, 2011 8:00 pm

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 46):
He kindly said, well if you don't want the raise, you can give it to me...

   I couldn't have said it better myself!

Quoting DL747400 (Reply 67):
That we are now seeing this instead.........................


1. a solidly profitable Delta Air Lines that is generating billions in profits

2. paying down debt

3. generating levels of revenue exceeding industry average in many, many areas

4. hiring in many departments throughout the airline

5. pay increases, profit sharing, and other benefits enhancements (including positive space passes good anywhere in the world that DL flys)

6. strong and proven commitment from a leadership team that is committed to preserving our heritage, valuing employees and running the airline as a business which offers customers products and services that they value and are willing to pay for

7. a flexible business plan able to evolve with the changing economic conditions, allowing the airline to incur billions in increased fuel expenses while able to generate significant profits

8. a very aggressive marketing plan which includes a strong focus on continued growth in the corporate sector

9. significant purchases of new (777s) and used (MD-90s) aircraft, plus a large order of next-generation aircraft (737-900ERs) for fleet replacement

10. massive investment in the product and the brand, presenting to the world a consistent picture of Delta as a strong airline that is proud of it's heritage and confident in it's future

11. new interiors offering customers a clean, fresh and updated environment in which they can spend their time with us enjoying WIFI and other onboard video entertainment options

12. very good customer satisfaction scores which continue to improve

13. complaint numbers far lower than many competitors, with more work left to do but clearly moving in the right direction

14. greatly improved baggage delivery scores (at times the best among the largest leading airlines), but again with more work to do

15. greatly-improved on-time performance stats

16. continuing to shrink hubs which are loss-making or under performing (CVG, MEM) while redeploying those assets to markets where they can generate strong, consistent profits and allow for growth and expansion (LGA, ATL, etc.)

17. a strong global airline that has just completed one of the smoothest, most successful airline mergers in history and is an acquirer rather than an acquiree

18. Employees who are proud and can hold their heads high when they say, "I work for D E L T A."

     Again, well put. I have numerous friends who refuse to fly any other airline other than Delta. People are noticing the Delta difference, and whether people choose to believe in the company and its' culture is up to them. Tell the other airlines to start taking notes.
Keep Climbing...
 
nwa744tpa
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RE: Delta To Give All Ground Employees Raises In '12

Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:59 pm

OK, I voted for the union. It didn't pass. I am brought up immediately to their hourly rate. I am getting another raise on top of that in July. Full profit sharing in February of 4.5% my 2011 earnings. I realize that it might take me a few years to make what I once did, but I am thankful. It isn't drinking the koolaid, it is being thankful that after many years of negative wage growth, finally it is going in the other direction. There is also a bit of union fatigue stting in. In this dreadful economy, I feel thankful and lucky. I do like the "piece of mind" of having a contract, but the decision is done. I look forward to doing my part to making this company successful.
 
NWAESC
Posts: 999
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:02 pm

RE: Delta To Give All Ground Employees Raises In '12

Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:11 pm

Speaking of the 4.5% for profit sharing, last year (IIRC) it was 6.5% for PMDL, and 3.2 for PMNW, under each group's respective plans. Why the decrease?
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
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DL747400
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RE: Delta To Give All Ground Employees Raises In '12

Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:17 pm

Quoting nwaesc (Reply 70):
Speaking of the 4.5% for profit sharing, last year (IIRC) it was 6.5% for PMDL, and 3.2 for PMNW, under each group's respective plans. Why the decrease?

Because until the union representation issues were resolved (and the last of those has finally been resolved now, as of last week), DL could not change the PMNW profit sharing plan, as this was in most cases covered under PMNW union contracts and would have been a clear indication of interference that the unions would have fully exploited to their benefit.
From First to Worst: The history of Airliners.net.

All posts reflect my opinions, not those of my employer or any other company.
 
cokepopper
Topic Author
Posts: 487
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RE: Delta To Give All Ground Employees Raises In '12

Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:33 pm

Quoting DL747400 (Reply 67):

Thank you for taking the time to write this.
EXCELLENT!
 
adtall
Posts: 55
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2010 2:53 am

RE: Delta To Give All Ground Employees Raises In '12

Sun Dec 18, 2011 12:02 am

Quoting nwaesc (Reply 70):
Speaking of the 4.5% for profit sharing, last year (IIRC) it was 6.5% for PMDL, and 3.2 for PMNW, under each group's respective plans. Why the decrease?

Less total profit, plus including PMNW in the PMDL plan. With more folks in the plan plus less profit, everybody has a smaller slice. Also, 4.5% is just .35% off the average of the two plan's percentages last year, a difference that's probably accounted for by the smaller profit compared to last year. 4.5% ain't bad for this year with its difficulties.
 
NWAESC
Posts: 999
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:02 pm

RE: Delta To Give All Ground Employees Raises In '12

Sun Dec 18, 2011 12:27 am

Ok, thanks.

///////
//////
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Delta To Give All Ground Employees Raises In '12

Sun Dec 18, 2011 12:31 am

Quoting nwaesc (Reply 70):

Its veryy simple math. The % of profits set aside does not change; don't have it in front of me. The profit sharing pie is directly linked the the total number earned for the year. Its simple, they made more money last year. People's wages aren't going down so you can't give 6.5% again..
What gets measured gets done.
 
LAXtoATL
Posts: 596
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RE: Delta To Give All Ground Employees Raises In '12

Sun Dec 18, 2011 2:10 am

Quoting nwa744tpa (Reply 69):
OK, I voted for the union. It didn't pass. I am brought up immediately to their hourly rate. I am getting another raise on top of that in July. Full profit sharing in February of 4.5% my 2011 earnings. I realize that it might take me a few years to make what I once did, but I am thankful. It isn't drinking the koolaid, it is being thankful that after many years of negative wage growth, finally it is going in the other direction. There is also a bit of union fatigue stting in. In this dreadful economy, I feel thankful and lucky. I do like the "piece of mind" of having a contract, but the decision is done. I look forward to doing my part to making this company successful.

I really love your attitude!
 
airtechy
Posts: 706
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 7:35 am

RE: Delta To Give All Ground Employees Raises In '12

Sun Dec 18, 2011 2:49 am

Quoting nwa744tpa (Reply 69):
OK, I voted for the union. It didn't pass. I am brought up immediately to their hourly rate. I am getting another raise on top of that in July. Full profit sharing in February of 4.5% my 2011 earnings. I realize that it might take me a few years to make what I once did, but I am thankful. It isn't drinking the koolaid, it is being thankful that after many years of negative wage growth, finally it is going in the other direction. There is also a bit of union fatigue stting in. In this dreadful economy, I feel thankful and lucky. I do like the "piece of mind" of having a contract, but the decision is done. I look forward to doing my part to making this company successful.

That had to be one of the best and most level headed posts I've seen on A-Net in a long time.   

Jim
 
tpaewr
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RE: Delta To Give All Ground Employees Raises In '12

Sun Dec 18, 2011 12:01 pm

If a union had gotten the pay increase it would be hailed as a triumph even if was only a dime. But since it came from mgmt it was as slap in the face!
 
Ih8b6
Posts: 201
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RE: Delta To Give All Ground Employees Raises In '12

Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:55 am

Quoting DL747400 (Reply 67):
OK then please allow me to continue where you left off?.......

Great post. Well said. Probably one of the best I have ever seen on this website. Nicely done.  
Over-moderation sucks
 
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enilria
Posts: 9493
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RE: Delta To Give All Ground Employees Raises In '12

Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:19 pm

Quoting ih8b6 (Reply 79):
Quoting DL747400 (Reply 67):
OK then please allow me to continue where you left off?.......

Great post. Well said. Probably one of the best I have ever seen on this website. Nicely done.  

My only complaints about Delta are that 1) I think they are a bit too wrapped up in their rivalry with AA and it has caused and may soon cause them to make some bad decisions now that they think AA is down for the count and 2) similarly, they are overly aggressive in the fashion that NW used to be with competitors (e.g. F9 @ MCI after they announced MCI-MSP). I agree that as long as the law allows them to act in a retaliatory fashion and it seems to work (F9 exited MCI-MSP) they are probably bound to behave that way, but I wish the DOT/DOJ would make those tactics illegal.
 
peanuts
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RE: Delta To Give All Ground Employees Raises In '12

Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:29 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 80):
but I wish the DOT/DOJ would make those tactics illegal.

We need LESS government interference though, not more.
These clowns in DC don't know what is good for private enterprise.

Quoting enilria (Reply 80):
too wrapped up in their rivalry with AA and it has caused and may soon cause them to make some bad decisions now that they think AA is down for the count

I don't think AA is dictating DL's thought process. If anything, it's the other way around.
 
bobnwa
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RE: Delta To Give All Ground Employees Raises In '12

Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:46 pm

I find it truly amazing how some members of this forum can make getting a raise from Delta into a bad thing for the employees
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Delta To Give All Ground Employees Raises In '12

Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:19 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 80):

Glad we're not regulated...
What gets measured gets done.
 
cmf
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RE: Delta To Give All Ground Employees Raises In '12

Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:24 pm

Quoting peanuts (Reply 81):
We need LESS government interference though, not more.
These clowns in DC don't know what is good for private enterprise.

The country would be an absolute disaster if private enterprises could do whatever they wanted. So be careful what you ask for.
Don’t repeat earlier generations mistakes. Learn history for a better future.
 
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mayor
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RE: Delta To Give All Ground Employees Raises In '12

Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:27 pm

Quoting cmf (Reply 84):
The country would be an absolute disaster if private enterprises could do whatever they wanted. So be careful what you ask for.

Well, it's a little off topic, but it seems that the country IS a disaster WITH gov't. help.  
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
lucky777
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RE: Delta To Give All Ground Employees Raises In '12

Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:43 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 85):
Well, it's a little off topic, but it seems that the country IS a disaster WITH gov't. help.

I suppose your going to leave out the fact that the country wasn't exactly smelling like roses when President Obama took over the sh!t storm left behind by his predecessor then, right?
 
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mayor
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RE: Delta To Give All Ground Employees Raises In '12

Mon Dec 19, 2011 5:03 pm

Quoting lucky777 (Reply 86):
I suppose your going to leave out the fact that the country wasn't exactly smelling like roses when President Obama took over the sh!t storm left behind by his predecessor then, right?

Well, my original statement said nothing, about one side or the other. You seem to have read something into it that wasn't there.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
cmf
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RE: Delta To Give All Ground Employees Raises In '12

Mon Dec 19, 2011 5:48 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 85):
Well, it's a little off topic, but it seems that the country IS a disaster WITH gov't. help.  

It is pretty bad. It would be much worse if enterprise wasn't countered by government. Suggestions everything would be fine if Washington stayed out are signs of very poor understanding of reality. You do not need to go back far in history to get that confirmed.
Don’t repeat earlier generations mistakes. Learn history for a better future.
 
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mayor
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RE: Delta To Give All Ground Employees Raises In '12

Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:04 pm

Quoting cmf (Reply 88):
It is pretty bad. It would be much worse if enterprise wasn't countered by government. Suggestions everything would be fine if Washington stayed out are signs of very poor understanding of reality. You do not need to go back far in history to get that confirmed.

Does the name "Amtrack" ring a bell?
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
cmf
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RE: Delta To Give All Ground Employees Raises In '12

Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:53 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 89):
Does the name "Amtrack" ring a bell?

As does Enron, Hooker Chemical and a long slew of other companies. What point are you trying to make?
Don’t repeat earlier generations mistakes. Learn history for a better future.
 
T5towbar
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RE: Delta To Give All Ground Employees Raises In '12

Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:57 pm

Quoting cmf (Reply 84):
The country would be an absolute disaster if private enterprises could do whatever they wanted. So be careful what you ask for.

I have heard ssomewhere that in order for capitalism to work to it's best, there has to be some socialism involved.
Ie: privatize the profits and socialize the losses.

Back on topic: At least there is some good news in this crazy business. Good for the DL employees that will receive more money next year. Whether you call it a raise or restoration, it is more than last year, that's for sure.

BTW: Is the target date for the increase coincides with all of the workgroups fully integrated? When's the planned date(s) for total integration where everybody works and bids as one?
A comment from an Ex CON: Work Hard.....Fly Standby!
 
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mayor
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RE: Delta To Give All Ground Employees Raises In '12

Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:06 am

Quoting cmf (Reply 90):

As does Enron, Hooker Chemical and a long slew of other companies. What point are you trying to make?

All I'm saying is that gov't. intervention is NOT the be all and end all. For being a "de-regulated" industry, the airlines seem to be more regulated, now, than ever before, just not in the same ways. Are things better, now, with a slew of new regulations? You decide.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
cmf
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RE: Delta To Give All Ground Employees Raises In '12

Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:15 am

Quoting mayor (Reply 92):
All I'm saying is that gov't. intervention is NOT the be all and end all

I don't think that is what you said is implying. But I do agree government is not the solution to all problems. Though there are many where it is.

Then a lot of people like to show some example of government not being perfect as justification for pushing them out completely. Ignoring what similar standards would mean when applied to all sides.

As with just about everything there needs to be a balance.
Don’t repeat earlier generations mistakes. Learn history for a better future.
 
hatbutton
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RE: Delta To Give All Ground Employees Raises In '12

Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:44 am

Quoting ooer (Reply 54):
Delta has managed to rake in billions in profits. Including an estimated $800 million this year.

So what is your solution? Delta has roughly 80,000 employees. If you gave everyone a $10,000 raise per year the company would have broken even. So then there would be no money to invest in new planes, or new technology, or upgrade passenger amenities, or new equipment for employees or anything that would allow them to grow and be a solid and sustainable place to work.

Just throwing up $800 million, to make it sound like the company is raking in the dough, in order to support your argument that you should be paid more is short sighted because it ignores every factor involved in running a sustainable business.

If you're so for getting a raise when the profits are coming in, then should the company be allowed to always give you a pay cut when they lose $800 million? A swinging scale if that is what is deemed fair by you?

For the 9 months ended the third quarter of 2011 DL's net income was $429m on revenues of $26.7B. That is only a 1.6% margin. For a company like an airline that requires a significant amount of capital expenditures in order to stay a viable business, 1.6% just doesn't cut it in the long run.
 
NWAESC
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RE: Delta To Give All Ground Employees Raises In '12

Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:24 pm

Quoting T5towbar (Reply 91):
BTW: Is the target date for the increase coincides with all of the workgroups fully integrated? When's the planned date(s) for total integration where everybody works and bids as one?

Most places have been working together for awhile. Bidding/schedules will be fully integrated by station at their next rebid.

For the rest of it (syncing of vacations, benefits, and so on), it'll be about 5-6 months before all is said and done.
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
flyibaby
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RE: Delta To Give All Ground Employees Raises In '12

Wed Dec 21, 2011 2:12 am

Quoting ooer (Reply 54):
Delta and many other airlines aren't having problems making profits. Even during the worst recession since the great depression...Delta has managed to rake in billions in profits. Including an estimated $800 million this year.
Quoting ooer (Reply 56):
Over the past 3 years the economy has been in the tank. What have been the financial results of the U.S. airlines over that time?
Quoting nwaesc (Reply 58):
And I argue it alongside you. Maybe someday in our lifetimes we'll see that, but since that would require the long term investment in labor- the same way a company might invest in land or equipment- it won't happen anytime soon. We (Americans) are so beat down that we make it too easy *not* to change. Just look at how many times the "you're lucky to have a job," and other stale memes have been tossed around here....

I agree with both of you that it should be people over profits - however it has to be said that although Delta and United are making good profits now - before employees start wanting a bigger share of that through pay resotoration, etc. that both Delta and United have to pay down alot of debt so as not to be facing the same problems they were before. Anderson and Co. at Delta have made it very clear that is a #1 priority. They are being very prudent so far in that effort, and this ultimately benefits the employees having a much more stable employer that can later on possibly provide better wages and better quality of life to their workforce.

Quoting nwa744tpa (Reply 69):
OK, I voted for the union. It didn't pass. I am brought up immediately to their hourly rate. I am getting another raise on top of that in July. Full profit sharing in February of 4.5% my 2011 earnings. I realize that it might take me a few years to make what I once did, but I am thankful. It isn't drinking the koolaid, it is being thankful that after many years of negative wage growth, finally it is going in the other direction. There is also a bit of union fatigue stting in. In this dreadful economy, I feel thankful and lucky. I do like the "piece of mind" of having a contract, but the decision is done. I look forward to doing my part to making this company successful.

I love your outlook...I am thankful for my position as well, and hope as the airline continues to do better, that my employment outlook reaps the benefits of a heathly employer.
 
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mayor
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RE: Delta To Give All Ground Employees Raises In '12

Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:51 am

Quoting flyibaby (Reply 96):
I agree with both of you that it should be people over profits

Who's to say that this approach, isn't just that.......people over profits? Sorry, but if you don't have profits, it's damn unlikely that the people are going to benefit, in any way.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
flyibaby
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Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:23 am

RE: Delta To Give All Ground Employees Raises In '12

Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:35 am

Quoting mayor (Reply 97):
Who's to say that this approach, isn't just that.......people over profits? Sorry, but if you don't have profits, it's damn unlikely that the people are going to benefit, in any way.

If you read my full post, I'm saying that I believe that they are right in the sense that business should always be people over profits, but that they are also sticking to their guns (in a good way) to pay down debt to ensure that it can continue to be people vs. profits. I think a great example is using such a good percentage of their annual profits in profit sharing back to the employees, while still focusing on debt, and spending money to improve their fleet. Delta is doing a great job in my humble opinion.

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