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Jonathanxxxx
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RE: KLM Axes Miami

Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:22 pm

Quoting bluebus (Reply 48):
Anyone know how LH"s A380 FRA-MIA route is doing?

Sadly, I heard that they are removing it from the MIA route to put it on the SFO route... I could be wrong though...
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: KLM Axes Miami

Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:25 pm

Quoting jonathanxxxx (Reply 50):
Sadly, I heard that they are removing it from the MIA route to put it on the SFO route... I could be wrong though...

No, they are. Effective March 25.
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N62NA
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RE: KLM Axes Miami

Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:38 pm

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 45):
Show me proof that the maket isn't large. MIAAMS is one of the 75 busiest U.S.-EU city pairs. How, then, is a market approaching 100 PDEW (and that's using 2010 figures, with no non-stop) not popular?

How is 100 passengers each way per day "huge?"
 
bennett123
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RE: KLM Axes Miami

Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:39 pm

IMO, those who think that this route is a gold mine are missing the point.

KLM, who have all the numbers seem to disagree with you.
 
MAH4546
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RE: KLM Axes Miami

Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:40 pm

Quoting jonathanxxxx (Reply 50):
Quoting bluebus (Reply 48):
Anyone know how LH"s A380 FRA-MIA route is doing?

Sadly, I heard that they are removing it from the MIA route to put it on the SFO route... I could be wrong though...

It's not going away permanently. Just a seasonal adjustment. I was hearing that it would stay for the summer but GDS just hasn't been updated yet, but I don't think thats the case anymore. It'll be back in October 2012.
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jasoncrh
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RE: KLM Axes Miami

Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:59 pm

Those in an alliance with antitrust and JV absolutely do plan capacity together. Two things with this though:
1) MIALHR is meant to be an O&D market. They put it in place to capture the O&D, not to capture flows over London, since SkyTeam really has no hub carrier at LHR
2) AMSMIA, as is most traffic to AMS, very dependent on flow traffic over the hub.
3) Thus, MIALHR and AMSMIA go after very different customer segments (the local to /from London versus the flow over Amsterdam to Europe/MiddleEast/ AFrica, etc).
3) Even though decisions are given consideration together, there is no overarching Skyteam (or STar, or oneworld) centralized board that dictates which routes are flown and which are not. This is because even though airlines may be in an alliance, only those with JV and ATI can plan capacity. Not all SkyTeam members have this.
4) Given that these routes were going after different customer segments, I cannot truly see how KLM pulling their flight helps the Delta flight
5) I think at the end of the day AF/KLM realized that the KLM flight was cannibalizing the existing AF flights (which also go after the transit pax to Europe/ Middle East/ Africa) and realized that it was most prudent to can the underperforming AMSMIA sector. I highly doubt that any consideration to helping Delta fly MIALHR was given.
6) At the end of the day in the alliance world, each airline has to decide how to best deploy its metal. KLM and Air France realized that there was a better use for the plane devoted to MIA. I dont think that any consideration was given to the DL LHRMIA flight, as that was not contributing to/ nor hurting the flow traffic beyond to Europe/Africa/Middle East in any substantial way.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 45):
Very true. This isn't as black and white as people make it out to be, and I absolutely believe that MIALHR had something to do with this. People who make arguments that te airlines don't plan capacity together or that MIAAMS isn't a large market don't know what they are talking about. Wish the alliance would have focused on MIAAMS instead of MIALHR, though, because the former is more likely to see long-term success.
 
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IrishAyes
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RE: KLM Axes Miami

Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:42 am

Quoting slvrblt (Reply 42):
AA didn't miss any boats in MIA. AA/AE would be up to DFW's nearly 500 flights a day if it could have done so. The physical plant cannot support such an operation. MDAD has a huge issue on its hands with the baggage system here. The OW carriers are supposed to be coming over to live in the north Terminal with AA too, but that's not going to happen either - with no belts

I was referring to TATL flights from MIA to Europe, before all of the capacity surges MIA has experienced over the past few years. Not domestic US growth. Most, if not all, of the OW TATL growth at MIA seems to be consistently strong whereas others (LH/KL etc) seem to struggle.

Plus, if MIA doesn't have the bandwidth to support such growth within the physical plant, then explain how it has managed to add capacity to South America (namely Brasil) from the AA side of things as of recently??

Quoting N62NA (Reply 43):
There are 3 Floridas: South Florida (MIA / FLL / PBI), Orlando, and then everything else. Clearly MIA / FLL / PBI wasn't popular enough with the Dutch.

That's what I suspected  
 
tff
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RE: KLM Axes Miami

Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:01 am

Quoting airbazar (Reply 27):

TP's MIA flight actually has good connection times to/from MIL: MXP-MIA has a 50m/2h10m layover at LIS and MIA-MXP has a 2h10 layover at LIS.
Remove before flight
 
nomorerjs
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RE: KLM Axes Miami

Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:05 am

AMS is low yielding. AA/OneWorld will handle connections, no need for KL in this market. DFW has the same issue with KL.
 
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IrishAyes
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RE: KLM Axes Miami

Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:19 am

Quoting nomorerjs (Reply 58):
DFW has the same issue with KL.

Not necessarily. While I don't disagree that KL struggles at DFW, the DFWAMS flight has actually stuck around since March 2008 whereas the MIAAMS flight hardly lasted a year. Additionally, DFWAMS is slated to recommence in S12.

The DFW-Europe market is also much smaller (and has experienced far less capacity surges YoY) than the MIA-Europe market. Whereas the KL flight to DFW was originally intended to connect DFW to points beyond AMS, the KL flight to MIA was launched to capture O&D traffic between Miami and Holland.
 
YYZAMS
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RE: KLM Axes Miami

Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:39 am

They will just codeshare on DL flight to LON and then on to AMS on KLM
 
miaintl
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RE: KLM Axes Miami

Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:40 am

Lets not forget that BA is adding a 3rd daily flight to MIA and BA tends to capture alot of Netherlands traffic from MIA. When it comes to TP it would not surprise me if that route gets cut sometime soon considering it is much more low-yielding than AMS.
 
Jonathanxxxx
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RE: KLM Axes Miami

Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:44 am

Quoting miaintl (Reply 61):

Not really, the demand from MIA-LIS isn't that much but it is pretty high yeilding. Not to mention the large amount of connections they provide to the already high yeilding destinations like MAD, BCN an MXP. Also the flight goes daily in S12. Why do you still think this route is going to be cut?
 
AF022
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RE: KLM Axes Miami

Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:53 am

MIA airport is very aggressive in marketing to airlines. They probably promised the world to KL and it failed.
 
dellatorre
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RE: KLM Axes Miami

Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:57 am

MIA and KLM are like oil and water. Simply don't go well together.
 
miaintl
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RE: KLM Axes Miami

Wed Dec 21, 2011 2:20 am

Quoting jonathanxxxx (Reply 62):

If KL got cut and its a far larger market then i would expect TP to go shortly after.
 
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airportugal310
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RE: KLM Axes Miami

Wed Dec 21, 2011 2:32 am

Quoting miaintl (Reply 65):
If KL got cut and its a far larger market then i would expect TP to go shortly after.

Thats pretty logical in this industry  
“They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash.”
 
miaintl
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RE: KLM Axes Miami

Wed Dec 21, 2011 2:35 am

Quoting santos (Reply 25):

Where is this news, i've checked the schedule and TP still is at 4x weekly to MIA for next summer.
 
boeing773er
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RE: KLM Axes Miami

Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:46 am

Wow, I am surprised by this.

I thought the fights were preforming pretty well on the passenger and cargo side the last time I heard anything about this.

Flying into a major OW hub didn't help KL out either, and it being a pretty big leisure destination; more so than business.
Work Hard, Fly Right.
 
AAIL86
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RE: KLM Axes Miami

Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:17 am

Quoting nomorerjs (Reply 58):
AMS is low yielding. AA/OneWorld will handle connections, no need for KL in this market. DFW has the same issue with KL.
Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 46):
I personally think MIA just got hit with too much capacity all the way around.

Yes, but a little ironic that DFW will be back(so far) for KLM next summer season.

I wonder if the axe will hit MIA-LHR on DL next. I highly doubt that route is breaking even.
" Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness ... Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime. ” - Mark Twain, 1869
 
boeing773er
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RE: KLM Axes Miami

Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:29 am

Quoting AAIL86 (Reply 69):

I wonder if the axe will hit MIA-LHR on DL next. I highly doubt that route is breaking even.

I think DL can take the the hit/only breaking even. It is taking away some part from AA/BA LHR-TATL dominance that they currently have.

But who knows what DL is doing in MIA anymore.
Work Hard, Fly Right.
 
luckyone
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RE: KLM Axes Miami

Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:16 am

Quoting flyyul (Reply 13):
MIA capacity situation is ridiculous. In less than 1 year there's been incremental service to BCN/MXP/LHR/ORY/MUC etc etc. Somebody was going to lose.
Quoting Semaex (Reply 49):
I'm surprised nobody has screamed out !Lufthansa! yet.

Lufthansa has cut capacity at Miami recently, cancelling the MUC service. DUS is seasonal. FRA, obviously, does well.
 
miaintl
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RE: KLM Axes Miami

Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:20 am

Also the kl flight was poorly timed for connections especially connections to southern Europe. In the end I would expect to be axed tp and that ib bcn flight. I expect none of those to be around next summer. Soon European capacity at Mia will be back to pre-2008 levels before this big surge in capacity. Funny thing is I flew on kl past summer and the loads were fantastic and the flight seemed to be performing very well, on the plus side af is sending it's 77W metal to Mia next summer. To the poster above dus was always been seasonal out of Mia and the flight has been around since 2008. That route is one of the few success stories out of the big Europe-Mia boom.

[Edited 2011-12-20 21:23:34]
 
flymia
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RE: KLM Axes Miami

Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:21 am

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 12):
DL has recently downsized MIA-LHR now that they have lie flat seats in the 767s but that might be the next Europe route to watch.


It was always suppose to be a 763, nothing was downsized, they just put a 764 on the route until they had a 763 with Lie-Flat seats.

Quoting AAIL86 (Reply 69):
I wonder if the axe will hit MIA-LHR on DL next. I highly doubt that route is breaking even.


I think DL needs to run the route for a certain amount of time, I think it was 2 years not sure. If they do not run the route for that amount of time they lose the LHR slot. So they will fly the route for 2 years or more to keep that very valuable slot until they can move it else where. But I have read that loads have been good. MIA-LHR is a huge market, will be interesting to see what the 3rd daily BA flight does to the market.

Quoting Boeing773ER (Reply 70):
But who knows what DL is doing in MIA anymore.


This is true, maybe the decided to not try to take on AA. For a few months looked like they were going to.
IMO DL should have ran MIA-AMS from the start with a 763.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
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Semaex
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RE: KLM Axes Miami

Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:30 am

Quoting luckyone (Reply 71):

Lufthansa has cut capacity at Miami recently, cancelling the MUC service. DUS is seasonal. FRA, obviously, does well.

Still comparibly a huge amount of seats (~800) to Florida each day. Cancelling MUC was a logical step as the A380 came into play. DUS is a different matter. It's only a 'focus city', but for that fact it's impressive it can sustain seasonal service to MIA.

I just wonder how LH is able to pull this off while KL can't. It's not like LH has a decent carrier to supply MIA traffic on the other end...
// You know you're an aviation enthusiast if you look at your neighbour's cars and think about fleet commonality.
 
luckyone
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RE: KLM Axes Miami

Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:58 am

Quoting Semaex (Reply 74):
Cancelling MUC was a logical step as the A380 came into play.

The temporary increased capacity offered by the A380 is give or take half of the seats Lufthansa pulled from the market between MUC and DUS.
 
santos
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RE: KLM Axes Miami

Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:10 am

TP Old Schedule:
TP113 LIS1000 %u2013 1430MIA 332
TP112 MIA2305 %u2013 1220 1LIS 332

TP New Schedule:
TP113 LIS1000 - 1430MIA
TP112 MIA1645 - LIS0600
6 Weekly From 16JUL12 %u2013 15SEP12

Taken from GDS Timetable, also showing on TP website

Quoting miaintl (Reply 67):
Where is this news, i've checked the schedule and TP still is at 4x weekly to MIA for next summer
 
miaintl
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RE: KLM Axes Miami

Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:12 am

Mia-dus is much larger market than ams and lh has been serving Mia since 1979 and has a loyal following in the south Florida market.
 
HB-IWC
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RE: KLM Axes Miami

Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:57 am

Quoting AAIL86 (Reply 69):
Yes, but a little ironic that DFW will be back(so far) for KLM next summer season.

I was actually expecting that DFW would not return at all next summer, but for now KLM seems to be willing to hang on to the destinations has has opted to reduce capacity to IAH instead. Still, I believe the DFW station is anything but safe for the airline.

Quoting miaintl (Reply 72):
Also the kl flight was poorly timed for connections especially connections to southern Europe.

You keep on saying that in every single thread, but the MIA flight both arrives and departs from one the airline's longhaul departure and arrival bank and if MIA is not optimally scheduled for connections then neither are a bunch of other KLM longhaul flights. Connections have nothing to do with the cancellation of this route. Load factors on the flight were among the highest in the system, so it was yields which were lacking more than anything else.
 
76er
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RE: KLM Axes Miami

Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:19 am

If only KL would not have killed off MP this year, but integrated its operations and reservations systems, we still would have had frequent MCO and MIA nonstops out of AMS. Sigh...

The thinking at KL was that with their sheer size and network they could profitably operate former MP routes. It seems they were wrong. The ironic fact is that TFL (TUI's ArkeFly) as of next year will have copied MP's complete former longhaul network, using 6 767s (with the 788 on order). And all that on behalf of just one single touroperator. Hello! Anybody home? [think mcFly! Think!!]  

[Edited 2011-12-21 00:30:25]
 
slvrblt
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RE: KLM Axes Miami

Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:35 am

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 56):
Plus, if MIA doesn't have the bandwidth to support such growth within the physical plant, then explain how it has managed to add capacity to South America (namely Brasil) from the AA side of things as of recently??

Not sure what you're talking about with ''bandwidth'' which to me means something totally different than a bagbelt system, which is what I was talking about. Manually moving bags around vs using an automated system tends to limit ones' growth.
But, having said that, the reason AA has added some capacity isn't anything remarkable; it always happens around this time, they are seasonal adjustments. Usually, for example, the GRU and EZE flights are redeyes. Right now, there is also a morning flight for each market, (GRU and EZE,) 4x weekly.
..everything works out in the end.
 
dellatorre
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RE: KLM Axes Miami

Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:52 am

They better use the aircraft to open a new station in Latin America ou increase capacity in GIG and EZE. It is definitely a much better investment than MIA.
 
Ferminios
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RE: KLM Axes Miami

Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:13 pm

Too bad for MIA, but honestly not a complete surprise to me. KL is a full service carrier and that simply doesn't work on a holiday route such as MIA, at least out of AMS. It's unfortunate, and I'm wondering how KL is doing on other former MP routes. I haven't heard much about that lately, I'll see if I get the chance to ask anyone for an indication.

I could see KL moving the MD-11 onto the YYC route like they did last summer, which makes in my mind more sense than the current A332 with 30 J seats planned for S12. The frequency on this route will be 6 times a week, so I see a good chance of that happening.

I haven't counted the A332 frequencies yet, but logically speaking this would leave KL with an A332 to spare. Does anyone know where this one is going?
 
ZRH
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RE: KLM Axes Miami

Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:37 pm

I don't really understand. The SWISS daily ZRH-MIA flight does very well. Why isn't then KLM able to support an AMS-MIA flight?
 
A388
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RE: KLM Axes Miami

Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:44 pm

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 45):
Prove it, then.

No point in discussing this subject with you other than that I stay with my earlier post regarding your supposed importance of the Florida market to Dutch people which isn't that great as you say it is.

A388
 
airbazar
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RE: KLM Axes Miami

Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:39 pm

Quoting N62NA (Reply 34):
Isn't the MD-11 a big, high density aircraft with KL?

But too expensive at today's oil prices. There's a reason why tri-jets have just about disapeared from the skies. By comparison AF is flying a high density 773. I suspect that KL would need at least a high density A333 on this route to make it work.

Quoting Semaex (Reply 49):
What's the big difference in KL running AMS-MIA (which supposingly does not work) and LH running FRA-MIA (A380 since last summer) on top of FRA-MCO (747 in winter)? Both Daily!

Germany is a far bigger market for both leisure and business.

Quoting tff (Reply 57):
TP's MIA flight actually has good connection times to/from MIL: MXP-MIA has a 50m/2h10m layover at LIS and MIA-MXP has a 2h10 layover at LIS.

Nope. The only morning connection is from LIN, not MXP. And the good evening connection is back to MXP, not LIN. So if you're flying from Milan to MIA via LIS you'd have to buy a ticket for the route: LIN-LIS-MIA-LIS-MXP, or opt for a long layover in LIS, which is likely a deterrent to a lot of people or they may not even be aware that they can do that.
I'm very pleased that starting next year they will change the MIA schedule to a more traditional TATL schedule and that should make the flight a lot more attractive for connections on both sides and drive up yields.
 
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yellowtail
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RE: KLM Axes Miami

Wed Dec 21, 2011 2:24 pm

Quoting Ferminios (Reply 82):
I could see KL moving the MD-11 onto the YYC route like they did last summer, which makes in my mind more sense than the current A332 with 30 J seats planned for S12. The frequency on this route will be 6 times a week, so I see a good chance of that happening.

Well at least one of the MD11 frequencies is going to AMS-PTY, which is going daily.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
MAH4546
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RE: KLM Axes Miami

Wed Dec 21, 2011 2:46 pm

Quoting ZRH" class="quote" target="_blank">ZRH (Reply 83):

I don't really understand. The SWISS daily ZRH-MIA flight does very well. Why isn't then KLM able to support an AMS-MIA flight?


ZRHMIA is a huge local market, larger than AMSMIA, but more importantly, there is good premium traffic between Miami and Switzerland. MIAZRH average fare is well above most Miami-Europe markets.


Quoting Semaex (Reply 74):
It's only a 'focus city', but for that fact it's impressive it can sustain seasonal service to MIA.

MIADUS is a very large local market. Not surprising LH easily does well between these two cities. Miami is the only city that DUS has been able to maintain uninterrupted trans-Atlantic service to for the past two decades.

One French media outlet is reporting that KLM will pull out as a consequence of AF adding the A380 to MIA in June, but I'm very, very skeptical on that.
a.
 
A388
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RE: KLM Axes Miami

Wed Dec 21, 2011 2:59 pm

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 88):
One French media outlet is reporting that KLM will pull out as a consequence of AF adding the A380 to MIA in June, but I'm very, very skeptical on that.

Exactly, the market just isn't there for KL which is why they will pull out of MIA.

A388
 
MAH4546
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RE: KLM Axes Miami

Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:18 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 89):
Exactly, the market just isn't there for KL which is why they will pull out of MIA.

Keep your denial going. If you think a local market of 98 PDEW means the markets "isn't there," then the market "isn't there" for the majority of U.S.-EU markets, of which MIAAMS is among the 75 largest.

And MIAAMS will continue to have non-stop service, despite the market "not being there," on Arkefly.
a.
 
peanuts
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RE: KLM Axes Miami

Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:58 pm

Quoting s4popo (Reply 91):
This has to be the most ignorant comment I've read here in a long time.

I'd say about 75% of the posts on this thread are. But I regress...

Let's just say this: AF/KL/AZ/DL's JV runs very deep. This is not just about AMS-MIA.
 
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N62NA
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RE: KLM Axes Miami

Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:07 pm

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 89):
Keep your denial going. If you think a local market of 98 PDEW means the markets "isn't there," then the market "isn't there" for the majority of U.S.-EU markets, of which MIAAMS is among the 75 largest.

This is what I don't get (and I notice now you revised the number to 98 from 100 earlier). How is 98 passengers per day each way a "large" market or an indication that AMS-MIA is "insanely popular with the Dutch?"
 
miaskies
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RE: KLM Axes Miami

Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:31 pm

It's the Holidays be nice everyone!  

Quite frankly, good riddance KLM! it was nice. We have plenty of service to Europe from MIA.
Crosscheck Complete :)
 
MAH4546
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RE: KLM Axes Miami

Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:37 pm

Quoting N62NA (Reply 91):
Quoting mah4546 (Reply 89):
Keep your denial going. If you think a local market of 98 PDEW means the markets "isn't there," then the market "isn't there" for the majority of U.S.-EU markets, of which MIAAMS is among the 75 largest.

This is what I don't get (and I notice now you revised the number to 98 from 100 earlier). How is 98 passengers per day each way a "large" market or an indication that AMS-MIA is "insanely popular with the Dutch?"

I didn't revise anything. I was giving an approximation, I checked the figures and now I give an accurate number.

98 PDEW is annualized, so it's actually quite a bit larger in the tourist season and quite a bit smaller off season. Furthermore, I said Florida is popular with the Ditch, not just Miami. MCOAMS is also a very large local market, the single largest between Orlando and mainland Europe, and also nears 100 PDEW. 100 PDEW for a U.S.-Europe market is very large. Outside of markets involving London or NYC at either end, the number of U.S-Europe markets that are 100 PDEW is probably around 60 or so, involving your usual suspects and MCOMAN.

Not to mention, the Dutch market leaks a lot of traffic to DUS, and MIADUS annualized is around 130 PDEW, proabbly closer to 200 during peak periods - which are Feb, Mar, Jul and Aug.

[Edited 2011-12-21 08:42:21]
a.
 
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N62NA
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RE: KLM Axes Miami

Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:33 pm

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 93):
I didn't revise anything. I was giving an approximation, I checked the figures and now I give an accurate number.

98 PDEW is annualized, so it's actually quite a bit larger in the tourist season and quite a bit smaller off season.

Well, we won't quibble over 2 people.  

I have to say, though, that this season down here in South Florida is very, very quiet. Miami Beach is like a ghost town and in years past it's been quite the opposite from November up until April or so.
 
globetrekker
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RE: KLM Axes Miami

Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:43 pm

There was even a time that Martinair flew to MIA in combo with AUA with a 763. Flew it a few times.
The World Is A Book And Those Who Do Not Travel Read Only A Page
 
MAH4546
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RE: KLM Axes Miami

Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:47 pm

Quoting N62NA (Reply 94):
I have to say, though, that this season down here in South Florida is very, very quiet. Miami Beach is like a ghost town and in years past it's been quite the opposite from November up until April or so.

International arrivals are at record levels, especially Europeans and Brazilians, but with the Euro problems I do think Europe arrivals will slow this year quite a bit, but South American traffic I expect will continue to climb as their economy remains robust. No idea about domestic traffic. I'm only in Miami once a month, but I haven't noticed it being any less busy, especially around Lincoln Road. MIA is the fastest growing U.S. airport right now, and foreign tourist arrivals are definitely a big contributor to that growth.
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N62NA
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RE: KLM Axes Miami

Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:54 pm

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 96):
International arrivals are at record levels, especially Europeans and Brazilians, but with the Euro problems I do think Europe arrivals will slow this year quite a bit, but South American traffic I expect will continue to climb as their economy remains robust. No idea about domestic traffic. I'm only in Miami once a month, but I haven't noticed it being any less busy, especially around Lincoln Road. MIA is the fastest growing U.S. airport right now, and foreign tourist arrivals are definitely a big contributor to that growth.

Next time you are here take a good look around Collins and Ocean Drive between 5th and 15th. It's a stark difference compared to a few years ago. Perhaps the drop off is in domestic visitors.
 
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RE: KLM Axes Miami

Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:19 pm

Quoting N62NA (Reply 97):
Next time you are here take a good look around Collins and Ocean Drive between 5th and 15th. It's a stark difference compared to a few years ago. Perhaps the drop off is in domestic visitors.

I was just there last night. I really don't notice a difference. I do think the centre of "action" though as shifted from Ocean Drive to Lincoln Road. In the late 1990s it was pretty much just Ocean Drive and shopping on Collins. Now there's South of Fifth, Lincoln Road, the area around Setai (whatever they're calling it these days), etc. 2010 was a record year for domestic overnight arrivals, too. And 2011 numbers have been improving on the record numbers of 2010.

http://www.travelpulse.com/greater-m...orts-tourism-records-for-2010.html
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A388
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RE: KLM Axes Miami

Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:29 pm

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 89):
And MIAAMS will continue to have non-stop service, despite the market "not being there," on Arkefly.

Yes, that market is small. Let's see how long Arkefly will maintain the MIA route. Let's move on now, shall we?

A388

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