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nycdave
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RE: Which Is The Most Efficient Hub?

Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:15 pm

Until someone chimes in with profitability info or flight efficiency stats, I think we're mainly going to be talking in personal opinions! That said, looking at www.airlinequality.com (SkyTrax), both official ratings, and customer reviews, you can see a very good case for ICN, SIN, and HKG being the best of the best from a customer experience standpoint.

Of course, those are all in Asia. In Europe, MUC and ZRH seem to be pretty popular (kind of funny... FRA does great in the "official" rankings, but the customer reviews are largely dismal).

For hubs in the Americas, I think DEN is good, and IAD is getting there with its new tram, terminal improvements, and forthcoming Metro connection. PIT *was* a great, easy, super nice hub, and still could be if anyone wanted to make it one! SFO is 2/3 of a great airport -- the International terminal and the new VX terminal 2 are outstanding... but due to weather, no one is EVER going to call SFO "efficient"  .

Now, to pick apart and gainsay some of the other suggestions...  
Quoting avi8 (Reply 20):
Isn't ATL overly crowded and gets a lot of delays? What about IAH? Barley any delays, lots of destinations, comfortable facilities, decent amount of schedules.

IAH is pretty "efficient" from a flight standpoint, but from a pax standpoint, it kind of sucks. The dining options are limited, and it's a pretty huge spread from the A-B terminals to the C-E terminals. Plus, I have kind of a grudge against an airport that has screwed up every time my parents have gone through needing a wheelchair, or the one time they lost my luggage.

Quoting DocGATTACA (Reply 26):
CLT in the US is actually very nice.

Only been through once, but friends have all said good things about it, and customer reviews are good.

Quoting alitalia744 (Reply 18):

from my perspective, nothing beats....

The Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport

It is pretty amazingly huge and efficient as a connecting hub, but as a place to ARRIVE -- or just connect through customs -- it still has some significant problems to overcome. Definitely up there though, for the US.
 
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N62NA
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RE: Which Is The Most Efficient Hub?

Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:25 pm

Quoting turk223 (Reply 47):
That's a good point; U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) procedures are complicated for non-U.S. passport holders- regardless of the hub at which it is done. Even if a non-U.S. passport holder is connecting "international-to-international", going through ICE is still a process that takes time. I feel it was complicated even pre-9/11...

For "international-to-international" connections, why anyone would go through the USA is a mystery to me. Everytime a non-U.S. citizen attempts to enter the country, they are at risk of being denied entry for basically no reason whatsoever, and of course the Customs agent doesn't answer to anyone - their decision is final (that's how the idiotic law was turned into even more idiotic regulations by the bureaucrats).
 
ytz
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RE: Which Is The Most Efficient Hub?

Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:25 pm

This is an odd question. It really depends on which angle you are looking at it from.

The efficiency of a hub can only be judged in relation to the customers they serve, which are the airlines, not the passengers. For example, DXB might certainly be up there given the complexity of EK's all-international, all-widebody, mostly long-haul operation.

On the other hand, if the discussion is about pax comfort and convenience, then issues like short walks between transfer, ease of terminal changes, pax amenities, quality of shopping, transit procedures, etc. will all come into play.
 
Joost
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RE: Which Is The Most Efficient Hub?

Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:27 pm

Quoting LOWS (Reply 21):
In Europe, MUC is good.

One thing I didn't like about MUC, was that for my LED-MUC-AMS flight (all LH), I had to leave airside area and pass through the landside plaza before I was able to board again for AMS. Other airports allow for transfers between Schengen and non-Schengen while staying airside.

For the rest, the terminal looks very nice, clean and modern, and waiting facilities are good.

Quoting LOWS (Reply 21):
FRA, quite the opposite of good.

I only connected through FRA once on LH (AMS-FRA-LED), but wasn't too disappointed. At least I could stay airside while connecting (of course with passport control). On the other hand, I found some parts of the airports look like they hadn't been touched since their construction in the 1970s and some toilets were simply a disgrace for an airport that should be one of Europe's gateways.

Quoting BasilFawlty (Reply 9):
I also like OSL,

I think OSL is architecturally among the most beautiful airports, but I found it quite under-dimensioned and therefore crowded.

Quoting jeffreyklm (Reply 35):
And I really hated (...) FCO.

What terminal did you use? I think FCO T1 is very nice, but the other terminals (2, 3) are quite outdated.
 
Luftymatt
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RE: Which Is The Most Efficient Hub?

Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:30 pm

I would think MUC or FRA  
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planespotting
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RE: Which Is The Most Efficient Hub?

Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:50 pm

I see no one has mentioned ORD yet (for obvious reasons), and I'm certainly not going to volunteer it as an efficient hub.

But, this thread got me thinking that it's really a bummer it's not better than it is. It's probably the most centralized hub in the entire U.S. (from a geographical standpoint) with a huge O&D contingent to comingle with the large number of connecting passengers. If the runway layout, airspace considerations and weather didn't make things so complicated (and it had a better terminal design), it could probably be the best hub in the world.

So basically if you could change everything about the airport other than it's surrounding population and location in the middle of the U.S., it'd be awesome  
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DocGATTACA
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RE: Which Is The Most Efficient Hub?

Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:59 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 48):
Surprisingly no one brought up the Japanese airports... NRT might not be the newest but still runs like clockwork

NRT is actually very nice. The only issue I ever have with it is that the security check for international transit passengers in T1 can turn in to a real bottle neck at certain times during the day. Other than that, no complaints (except for the interminable taxi times depending upon the runway usage).
 
masseybrown
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RE: Which Is The Most Efficient Hub?

Thu Dec 22, 2011 4:03 pm

In terms of cost per emplanement, CLT has to be the most efficient at $2.72 cents per passenger.
 
ozark1
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RE: Which Is The Most Efficient Hub?

Thu Dec 22, 2011 4:19 pm

Quoting ATL (Reply 29):
What's wrong with SFO?

Are you kidding me? One of the worst travel experiences of my life. The UA terminal looked like a third world country. The line for security stretched the entire length of the terminal. The agents were expressionless. I went to a kiosk and purchased ($35) what I thought was a "streamlined" security opportunity. I was directed there---another line.
Then on the return, was connecting from UA to AA---no way to interconnect without going out through security and back. Yeah as much as I used to hate DFW, that Sky Train has made all the difference in the world.
 
DLPMMM
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RE: Which Is The Most Efficient Hub?

Thu Dec 22, 2011 4:22 pm

Quoting ju068 (Reply 45):
Exactly, last time in the US I waited 1 hour 30 minutes in the passport line. It was absolutely the worst experience ever!

I've spent over 2 hours waiting at LHR for immigration, while the EU residents whisked right through, so that works both ways. They had lots of queue minders for the line that stretched about a kilometer down the hall of T4 and back...they seemed to be surprised that there were people on the planes, like the same planes didn't arrive every day at about the same times.
 
mogandoCI
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RE: Which Is The Most Efficient Hub?

Thu Dec 22, 2011 4:27 pm

Quoting ozark1 (Reply 58):
Are you kidding me? One of the worst travel experiences of my life. The UA terminal looked like a third world country. The line for security stretched the entire length of the terminal. The agents were expressionless. I went to a kiosk and purchased ($35) what I thought was a "streamlined" security opportunity. I was directed there---another line.
Then on the return, was connecting from UA to AA---no way to interconnect without going out through security and back. Yeah as much as I used to hate DFW, that Sky Train has made all the difference in the world.

Have you ever tried Terminal 2/3 at JFK ? After that experience you'd be *begging* for SFO
 
usflyer msp
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RE: Which Is The Most Efficient Hub?

Thu Dec 22, 2011 4:29 pm

Quoting nycdave (Reply 50):
IAH is pretty "efficient" from a flight standpoint, but from a pax standpoint, it kind of sucks. The dining options are limited, and it's a pretty huge spread from the A-B terminals to the C-E terminals. Plus, I have kind of a grudge against an airport that has screwed up every time my parents have gone through needing a wheelchair, or the one time they lost my luggage.

I hate IAH for one reason and one reason only. Those freakin' CARTS that attempt to run you over every few seconds. Eathier IAH has the laziest customer base of any major airport or the cart situation is just out of control.
 
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SRQKEF
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RE: Which Is The Most Efficient Hub?

Thu Dec 22, 2011 4:37 pm

Quoting ju068 (Reply 45):
One rather efficient airport, at least for me, is KEF.

Agreed

I know it's small, but I definitely think KEF is efficient and has a great number of destinations compared to other airports of this size. There are only 300,000 people in Iceland, so 90%+ of the traffic is connecting. With all departures to Europe 7.30-8.00 and arrivals 15.00-16.00, it fits perfectly to the North American flights that leave 17.00-17.30. Then the N-American flights land 6.00-6.30 and connect to Europe and on and on and on....

Although I haven't transited thru KEF myself because it's always the beginning or end of my trip, I think it must be a breeze. Also, KEF is very profitable for FI.

Quoting jeffreyklm (Reply 35):
FCO.

Flew from T2 or T3 in Rome on Vueling to Barcelona and the terminal was a complete nightmare! The restaurant I ate on was way too crowded as the terminal was overall. It just felt crowded and cramped. Also, there were many delays on flights there. Our flight got a 40 min delay but a CSA flight next to us had some 3-4 hrs (but maybe that's not the airports fault)

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indiansbucs
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RE: Which Is The Most Efficient Hub?

Thu Dec 22, 2011 4:50 pm

Quoting turk223 (Reply 47):
My connections at HEL and PTY were seemless for international-to-international connections; never had to clear passport control at either airport. I just don't think any U.S. airport is set up for something similar?

For everyone's info... transiting thru airports like PTY and SJO, in which connecting INTL to INTL was very seemless due to lack of Passport Control and Security wont be the same beginning 2012 thru 2013. ICAO has given time limits to these and similar airports to make corrections to make passengers clear at least security, before mixing inbound and outbound passengers.

For example in SJO...airport administration just began making arrangements at the gate structures to put ellectrical steps that will lead into a passage in which at the end the pax will either go thru immigration and enter the country or go thru security to reenter the airport and connect.
It is never that cold and dark... when it is about to break dawn...
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Which Is The Most Efficient Hub?

Thu Dec 22, 2011 5:15 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 60):
Have you ever tried Terminal 2/3 at JFK ? After that experience you'd be *begging* for SFO

Terminals 2 and 3 are dumps and an eyesore. They are an embarrasement to the entire Delta system and I've said it over and over and over, T3 needs to be bulldozed soonest. I still don't understand how it's not a health and comfort hazard with all the pigeons flying around the rafters.
What gets measured gets done.
 
termbewr
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RE: Which Is The Most Efficient Hub?

Thu Dec 22, 2011 5:21 pm

I just connected in DEN on UA. I really liked it. The facility was bright, spacious and there were a lot of restaurants and shops. Everything was in one concourse and the departure queue moved very quickly.
 
mogandoCI
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RE: Which Is The Most Efficient Hub?

Thu Dec 22, 2011 6:08 pm

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 64):
Terminals 2 and 3 are dumps and an eyesore. They are an embarrasement to the entire Delta system and I've said it over and over and over, T3 needs to be bulldozed soonest. I still don't understand how it's not a health and comfort hazard with all the pigeons flying around the rafters.

And yet I hear nutcase groups trying to preserve it because it's the PanAm Worldport, even though its architectural significance is nothing compared to TWA Saarinen T-5.

Next thing you know they'll be petitioning to preserve Mirabel too.
 
AustrianZRH
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RE: Which Is The Most Efficient Hub?

Thu Dec 22, 2011 6:50 pm

I quite like ZRH in Europe. Short ways, clean, seldom long queues at security and passport control, nice views onto the apron.

In North America I like YYZ, which to my surprise wasn't named up to now. Clean appearance, much light in the building, efficient design for connections.
WARNING! The post above should be taken with a grain of salt! Furthermore, it may be slightly biased towards A.
 
PlunaCRJ
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RE: Which Is The Most Efficient Hub?

Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:04 pm

Quoting indiansbucs (Reply 63):
For everyone's info... transiting thru airports like PTY and SJO, in which connecting INTL to INTL was very seemless due to lack of Passport Control and Security wont be the same beginning 2012 thru 2013. ICAO has given time limits to these and similar airports to make corrections to make passengers clear at least security, before mixing inbound and outbound passengers.

I´ve always wondered..... what is the reasoning of going through security again while connecting at places like SCL or LIM? I am just off an aircraft, I´ve already cleared security... Such an unnecesary nuisance.

If all connecting passengers at PTY are required to go through security for a second time, CM will surely have to adjust some of its schedules, or quite a few number of connections won´t be possible anymore.

Regards,
 
brilondon
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RE: Which Is The Most Efficient Hub?

Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:53 pm

Quoting IPFreely (Reply 11):
SFO, LAX, ORD, IAD and EWR -- all terrible.

I agree and would alos like to include JFK in that list.

Quoting avi8 (Reply 20):
Isn't ATL overly crowded and gets a lot of delays?

I have never found ATL to be any more delayed that any other airport and you cannot control any weather delays or delays due to volcanoes. DTW is a very easy airport to connect in as well as DFW with its sky-train. YVR is also an easy hub to connect through as well as YUL.

[Edited 2011-12-22 12:04:38]
Rush forever Closer To My Heart
 
nycdave
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RE: Which Is The Most Efficient Hub?

Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:33 pm

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 59):
I've spent over 2 hours waiting at LHR for immigration, while the EU residents whisked right through, so that works both ways.

THANK YOU. So often I hear foreigners complain about how awful US Customs and Immigration is compared to *their* home country, and I just want to grab them by the shoulders and shake the heck out of them and scream "THAT'S BECAUSE IT'S YOUR *HOME* COUNTRY!!!"

Not to say that some places aren't arguably better, but I'm not about to pretend that my foreign friends are going to have as easy a time getting into the US as I do... though I've found many Schnegen-area Europeans seem to seem downright offended that there's no Schnegen lane for them at JFK so they can breeze by the Americans like they do back home  
 
mogandoCI
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RE: Which Is The Most Efficient Hub?

Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:42 pm

Quoting nycdave (Reply 70):
though I've found many Schnegen-area Europeans seem to seem downright offended that there's no Schnegen lane for them at JFK so they can breeze by the Americans like they do back home

They mean the PIIGS IMF-Bailout Lane ?
 
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BasilFawlty
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RE: Which Is The Most Efficient Hub?

Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:23 pm

Quoting ju068 (Reply 34):
I actually really do not like AMS. Of course the only good part about it is the terrace on top where you can watch planes. It always seems too overcrowded and it reminds me of a massive shopping mall. Also, from an architectural point of view it's quite ugly (on the inside).
I found the staff at AMS to be quite unpleasant...

You should see the staff-only areas behind in the scenes and in the basement, very ugly and extremely outdated. Also the non-heated and very outdated airbridges are something that make AMS ugly from an architectural point of view.

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 48):
AMS may be efficient runway-and-slot-wise but I don't like the part they clear x-ray at each gate ...

  

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 48):
wouldn't that require the security personnel to move all over the terminal to whichever flight is departing?

This is exactly how it works at AMS and it's the main reason why I HATE my local airport. It's very frustrating when you have to wait in line for security at the gate for almost an hour while at the next gate security staff is doing nothing.

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 48):
quite some overhead if you ask me.

Yes, but unfortunately nobody seems to care that it's one of the main factors why taxes at AMS are so high.
'Every year donkeys and mules kill more people than plane crashes'
 
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Aquila3
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RE: Which Is The Most Efficient Hub?

Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:14 pm

Quoting gabrielchew (Reply 10):
I like connecting through Clermont Ferrand (CFE) in the middle of France. AF Regional used to have a hub there, with most connections being between 15-30 minutes in 4 waves a day. I flew LRH-CFE-LCY on a couple of Saab 2000s. There's basicall;y nothing left of the hub now, with a few Paris flights left.



Aaahhh, the old CFE with Regional Airlines! (before AF). For connecting flights there was a bus shuttle stopping beside each departing aircraft. You just had to get down at the right stop and walk to your next flight. Amazing, unfortunately now impossible with the new safety rules.
On modern hubs I agree on ICN (you even can find a good espresso at Pascucci's) and MUC (even when snowing!).
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emirates202
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RE: Which Is The Most Efficient Hub?

Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:22 pm

DXB is pretty good

Saketh
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Viscount724
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RE: Which Is The Most Efficient Hub?

Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:24 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 48):
AMS may be efficient runway-and-slot-wise but I don't like the part they clear x-ray at each gate

That's only for non-Schengen flights. For the many hundreds of Schengen flights, there's a central security checkpoint and if you're connecting between Schengen flights there's no security check; you just go from one gate to the other.

Personally, for non-Schengen connections, I like the security check at the gate. That way you don't have to worry about missing your flight which can be a problem if you encounter a very long security line at an airport with a central checkpoint. With security at the gate they're not going to leave anyone behind.
 
LGWflyer
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RE: Which Is The Most Efficient Hub?

Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:39 pm

Quoting EWRkid1990 (Reply 31):
I recently made a connection through CLT on US. Every airline is under one roof, plenty of large security checkpoints, a giant area with plenty of seating and excellent selections of food, plus they have those giant windows and rocking chairs. the ground staff for US there did an incredible job during my 3 hour connection.

I second that!!! CLT is certainly the best.
3 words... I Love Aviation!!!
 
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BasilFawlty
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RE: Which Is The Most Efficient Hub?

Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:58 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 75):
That's only for non-Schengen flights. For the many hundreds of Schengen flights, there's a central security checkpoint and if you're connecting between Schengen flights there's no security check; you just go from one gate to the other.

Yes, Schengen is fine, but the majority of all flights is non-Schengen.  
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 75):
That way you don't have to worry about missing your flight which can be a problem if you encounter a very long security line at an airport with a central checkpoint. With security at the gate they're not going to leave anyone behind.

That way the flight gets delayed and causes problems for other passengers and the airline. That's why I don't like the security at the gate system. With a central security point you can just leave the last passengers behind, which is a much better option then delaying the whole flight.
'Every year donkeys and mules kill more people than plane crashes'
 
globetrekker
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RE: Which Is The Most Efficient Hub?

Fri Dec 23, 2011 1:57 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 75):
That's only for non-Schengen flights. For the many hundreds of Schengen flights, there's a central security checkpoint and if you're connecting between Schengen flights there's no security check; you just go from one gate to the other.


Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 59):
I've spent over 2 hours waiting at LHR for immigration, while the EU residents whisked right through, so that works both ways.

Wasn't there a short period where both Schengen and non-schengen flights had central security checkpoints at AMS? It didn't last long if I remember correctly.

I think the major difference of transitting in the EU and the USA is that you have to claim your luggage at the first point of entry in the States. In the EU you see your luggage at your final destination. That to me is a hassle on top of an already unpleasant situation. That being said, I am originally from Aruba but live in The Netherlands. When I go visit my family and friends... and I choose to fly via the USA... the flight back to AMS (usually via ATL or PHL with DL or US) is a breeze, because of the US Border Pre-clearance facilities. There is something about doing the clearance upon departure rather than arrival that make the whole thing seems like less of an hassle.

GT
The World Is A Book And Those Who Do Not Travel Read Only A Page
 
infinit
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RE: Which Is The Most Efficient Hub?

Fri Dec 23, 2011 2:07 am

I think SIN is fantastic but I may have an internalised bias since I am Singaporean  

But comparing SIN, HK and Dubai, I find the amenities of SIN unbeatable- countless gardens, gaming stations (Wii, PS3,Xbox, LAN), a pool, movie theathers, massage chairs and what have you, all free. and the train and cab connections are effecient and cheap. And the staff are always friendly and smiling.

Been to HKG twice. Quite effectient too but HKG lacks leisure amenities IMO and no offence to the HongKongers here but I find the staff pretty dry and unfriendly. Not rude, just unfriendly.

Dubai isn't as friendly as a hub. I think they need to increase the staff ratio at the airport.
 
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BasilFawlty
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RE: Which Is The Most Efficient Hub?

Fri Dec 23, 2011 2:12 am

Quoting GlobeTrekker (Reply 78):
Wasn't there a short period where both Schengen and non-schengen flights had central security checkpoints at AMS? It didn't last long if I remember correctly.

Yes, until the rules changed. These days, for a non-Schengen flight, all transfer passengers have to go through security again before they can board their next flight. In AMS this was not possible because arriving and departing passengers use the same floor, while at most other airports arriving and departing passengers are seperated. Therefore they had to close the central security checkpoints and install security checkpoints at all non-Schengen gates. This is MUCH more expensive because now the airport needs a lot more equipment and security staff. It seems that the management doesn't give a sh*t, all extra costs will be payed by the passengers anyway. There aren't even longterm plans to change this, so that's one of the main reasons why I really dislike my local airport.
'Every year donkeys and mules kill more people than plane crashes'
 
globetrekker
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RE: Which Is The Most Efficient Hub?

Fri Dec 23, 2011 4:04 am

Quoting BasilFawlty (Reply 80):
Yes, until the rules changed. These days, for a non-Schengen flight, all transfer passengers have to go through security again before they can board their next flight. In AMS this was not possible because arriving and departing passengers use the same floor, while at most other airports arriving and departing passengers are seperated. Therefore they had to close the central security checkpoints and install security checkpoints at all non-Schengen gates. This is MUCH more expensive because now the airport needs a lot more equipment and security staff. It seems that the management doesn't give a sh*t, all extra costs will be payed by the passengers anyway. There aren't even longterm plans to change this, so that's one of the main reasons why I really dislike my local airport.

Oh, so there is where all the 'toeslagen' (added charges) on my ticket goes.  Wow!
The World Is A Book And Those Who Do Not Travel Read Only A Page
 
mogandoCI
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RE: Which Is The Most Efficient Hub?

Fri Dec 23, 2011 2:39 pm

Quoting infinit (Reply 79):
But comparing SIN, HK and Dubai, I find the amenities of SIN unbeatable- countless gardens, gaming stations (Wii, PS3,Xbox, LAN), a pool, movie theathers, massage chairs and what have you, all free. and the train and cab connections are effecient and cheap. And the staff are always friendly and smiling.

Some of these amenities sound like white elephants la.... a pool ? If I'm transiting or departing my swimming gear is most certainly in my checked baggage not my carry-on

And do those amenities exist outside of "tea tree" ah ? I'm stuck at T-1 at all the time and it's not all that glam.
 
Asiaflyer
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RE: Which Is The Most Efficient Hub?

Fri Dec 23, 2011 2:58 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 82):
Some of these amenities sound like white elephants la.... a pool ? If I'm transiting or departing my swimming gear is most certainly in my checked baggage not my carry-on

Don't worry, plenty of places to buy a pair.

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 82):
And do those amenities exist outside of "tea tree" ah ? I'm stuck at T-1 at all the time and it's not all that glam

You are not stuck in any terminal , as you are free to walk or take the train between them on airside.
The spa and pool is in T2.
You can see the pool on the roof next time you take off.

http://www.changiairport.com/at-chan.../leisure-indulgences/swimming-pool
 
mogandoCI
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RE: Which Is The Most Efficient Hub?

Fri Dec 23, 2011 3:04 pm

Quoting Asiaflyer (Reply 83):
You are not stuck in any terminal , as you are free to walk or take the train between them on airside.
The spa and pool is in T2.
You can see the pool on the roof next time you take off.

http://www.changiairport.com/at-chan...-pool

Ya, the website says it's not free for all.
 
brilondon
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RE: Which Is The Most Efficient Hub?

Fri Dec 23, 2011 4:39 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 82):
Some of these amenities sound like white elephants la.... a pool ?



Yeah and I find it quite refreshing when traveling through Changi. The above post never said it was free but it is sure worth a few bucks to not be stuck in the airport for hours and gives you a break from traveling. If you want to save the money then don't go for a swim, or use anything no one is forcing you.
Rush forever Closer To My Heart
 
Viscount724
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RE: Which Is The Most Efficient Hub?

Fri Dec 23, 2011 7:26 pm

Quoting BasilFawlty (Reply 77):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 75):
That's only for non-Schengen flights. For the many hundreds of Schengen flights, there's a central security checkpoint and if you're connecting between Schengen flights there's no security check; you just go from one gate to the other.

Yes, Schengen is fine, but the majority of all flights is non-Schengen.

Is there any breakdown of Schengen and non-Schengen frequencies from AMS? I would have guessed it was the other way around considering the high frequency to many Schengen destinations vs. many non-Schengen destinations that don't even have daily service.
 
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casinterest
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RE: Which Is The Most Efficient Hub?

Fri Dec 23, 2011 7:34 pm

Quoting LGWflyer (Reply 76):
I second that!!! CLT is certainly the best.

I'll third it.
I love the Rocking Chairs. Especially since they are all near a power port. And you can turn them around and watch the aircraft between terminals B and C.


However I will make a case for ATL. That is a great place to connect, and just browse around. The Taxi Times can get Ridiculous sometimes though.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
JU068
Posts: 2094
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:23 am

RE: Which Is The Most Efficient Hub?

Fri Dec 23, 2011 8:00 pm

Quoting nycdave (Reply 70):
THANK YOU. So often I hear foreigners complain about how awful US Customs and Immigration is compared to *their* home country, and I just want to grab them by the shoulders and shake the heck out of them and scream "THAT'S BECAUSE IT'S YOUR *HOME* COUNTRY!!!"

Well, I have travelled to the vast majority of airports in Europe and I have entered those places either from Larnaca or Belgrade - both destinations outside the Schengen zone.
I do not have an EU passport which meant that I had to go through the passport control just like any other non-EU citizen had to do (US included).

The only time I waited for more than 30 minutes was in AMS since Aeroflot and Iran Air landed just before our flight from Larnaca.

I think that passport control in Europe is way more advanced and efficient than the one across the Ocean  
 
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huaiwei
Posts: 358
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RE: Which Is The Most Efficient Hub?

Tue Jan 03, 2012 9:50 am

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 82):
Some of these amenities sound like white elephants la.... a pool ? If I'm transiting or departing my swimming gear is most certainly in my checked baggage not my carry-on

And do those amenities exist outside of "tea tree" ah ? I'm stuck at T-1 at all the time and it's not all that glam.

Apparantly the pool is rather popular. For S$13.91 you get access to both the pool and jacuzzi, toiletries and also a drink from the bar. Hotel guests of couse get to go for free. And the pool is actually in Terminal 1, for your information, and not in some swanky Terminal 3.

Btw, the airport hotel (not referring to the full service hotel also in the airport complex) has often been cited as a very cost-effective way to unwind. For a small fee you can shower, get a message, go to the gym and the pool. I was quite amused that the gym even provides gymwear for rental, obviously taking into consideration the fact that most travellers won't have that with them.

Quoting Asiaflyer (Reply 83):
The spa and pool is in T2.

It's actually Terminal 1.

Btw, swankiness is no longer T3's domain. T1's upgrading is almost complete, and now all three terminals are almost on par, except that T3's lovely ceiling will probably give it an edge.

And I do not wish to bash the "competition", but I do agree with Asiaflyer that unless you are some kind of shopaholic, transitting at HKG can be a real bore. I endured 3-4 hours with nothing much to do, and on another transit there it was a mad rush from one end of the terminal to the other across the carvenous single-terminal design.
It's huaiwei...not huawei. I have nothing to do with the PRC! :)
 
byronicle6
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RE: Which Is The Most Efficient Hub?

Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:52 am

I would have to agree with SIN as the best place to connect in my experience, mainly because of the facilities stated above that don't exist at most airports. also because as soon as you walk up the airbridge you are in the transit area because of security screening at the gate, and of course the easy access between terminals on the sky train.
Travel is my thing
 
mikey72
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RE: Which Is The Most Efficient Hub?

Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:28 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 16):
Of European hubs I regularly use I would rank them in this order from best to worst:

1. AMS
2. MUC
3. ZRH
4. BRU
5. FRA
6. CDG
7. LHR

You lot make me laugh.

It's interesting that the busiest airports feature at the bottom of most people's lists.

For instance how many A380's arrive at AMS on a daily basis ? Where would it list if it handled the traffic that say LHR does ?

You have to include this in your assessment. Of the above airports which 3 could we least do without ?

Most non-European airlines would see a significant drop in percentage traffic to/from Europe and even overall if some catastrophe were to befall FRA, CDG or LHR .

[Edited 2012-01-04 00:31:26]

[Edited 2012-01-04 00:37:10]
Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
 
dc9northwest
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RE: Which Is The Most Efficient Hub?

Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:11 am

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 91):
You lot make me laugh.

It's interesting that the busiest airports feature at the bottom of most people's lists.

For instance how many A380's arrive at AMS on a daily basis ? Where would it list if it handled the traffic that say LHR does ?

You have to include this in your assessment. Of the above airports which 3 could we least do without ?

Most non-European airlines would see a significant drop in percentage traffic to/from Europe and even overall if some catastrophe were to befall FRA, CDG or LHR .


So AF's 3-4-3 777's are way better than, say, BA's A318 Biz Class service to JFK because it carries more passengers. And 3-4-3 777s better than 3-3-3 777s in general, cause they are "busier" as they have more pax. Brilliant logic there!

Assessment: CDG and LHR are known to have serious issues. LHR shuts down if one snowflake hits the ground (very efficient when closed!) and CDG when AF used to use the smelly and outdated 2B was a horrific experience, but now it's better. Catastrophe befalls LHR anytime snow falls.

The larger size does not mean a better, or more efficient airport. And just cause it's bigger doesn't mean people will choose inconvenience over a smaller, quicker hub. Cut LHR's number of slots by 30% and I'm sure it would rank higher, you're right! Hell, let only 3-5-3 A380s fly there, all economy.
 
mikey72
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RE: Which Is The Most Efficient Hub?

Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:54 am

Quoting dc9northwest (Reply 92):
So AF's 3-4-3 777's are way better than, say, BA's A318 Biz Class service to JFK because it carries more passengers. And 3-4-3 777s better than 3-3-3 777s in general, cause they are "busier" as they have more pax. Brilliant logic there!

And your transferral of my logic from airports to aircraft is equally as brilliant.

Quoting dc9northwest (Reply 92):
Assessment: CDG and LHR are known to have serious issues. LHR shuts down if one snowflake hits the ground (very efficient when closed!) and CDG when AF used to use the smelly and outdated 2B was a horrific experience, but now it's better. Catastrophe befalls LHR anytime snow falls.
LHR shuts down if one snow flake hits the ground ? That's not exactly true is it.

Quoting dc9northwest (Reply 92):
The larger size does not mean a better, or more efficient airport

Oh dear, I seem to have rattled your cage. I did not say 'larger' or 'more efficient'. I simply said that the more traffic (particularly international traffic) an airport handles the less enjoyable the passenger's experience seems to become.

That fact is there in black and white in this very thread. Are you denying this ?

Quoting dc9northwest (Reply 92):
And just cause it's bigger doesn't mean people will choose inconvenience over a smaller, quicker hub.

How do I do that if I want to fly from London to Los Angeles, Hong Kong or Capetown or any other number of destinations ad infinitum.

I'm certainly not going to 'increase' my journey time by transferring just because the lavatory smells fresher !! That's not exactly logical is it ?

Besides in most cases realistically where FRA, CDG and LHR are concerned there is no other more efficient option. That's the very reason for the vast amounts of traffic they handle and why people put up with smelly terminals or snowed in aircraft. It's just life !!

Besides Terminal 5 at LHR is a joy to use.

An airport is a facility. This isn't Skytrax, there are no official star ratings.

For example I would wager that once EK reaches maturity whatever airport ends up as its hub will be no more enjoyable an experience than FRA, CDG or LHR.

As far as Europe's major airports are concerned particularly LHR over the last 25 years its been like trying to keep a child in trousers and shoes that always fit perfectly.

Common sense..dear Watson.

[Edited 2012-01-04 02:00:14]
Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
 
6thfreedom
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RE: Which Is The Most Efficient Hub?

Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:18 am

I haven't read through the entire thread, so if this has been mentioned my apologies.

In general, i think airports that cater for single cities without the complication of offering domestic connections are the most efficient.

SIN, HKG, DXB, AUH, DOH etc spring time mind.

granted the last two have a lot of development to undertake, but from a passenger processing experience and an airlines use of aircraft and gates etc, I think they are the most efficient.

This is largely because pax often don't need to be screened or customs cleared, and aircraft arriving usually depart after a short stay to an onward port - most often than not within 2-3 hours.
 
JU068
Posts: 2094
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:23 am

RE: Which Is The Most Efficient Hub?

Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:33 am

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 93):

Oh dear, I seem to have rattled your cage. I did not say 'larger' or 'more efficient'. I simply said that the more traffic (particularly international traffic) an airport handles the less enjoyable the passenger's experience seems to become.

Mmmm no, not necessarily. It all boils down to how well an airport expands in order to cater the growing passenger numbers.
Look at Munich, sure the airport handles half of what London Heathrow does but you can see that the way the airport is organized no matter how many passengers it will handle it will always be efficient and pleasant.
Then on the other hand you have Madrid airport which is massive with 50.000.000 passengers in 2010. I have been there numerous times and the airport seemed pleasant enough - especially the new terminal.

Like I said, it all boils down to how competent the management is in securing the additional space and comfort for future expansion.

Airports such as LHR or IST will have a hard time competing in the long run with airports such as MUC or MAD.
 
mikey72
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RE: Which Is The Most Efficient Hub?

Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:48 am

Quoting ju068 (Reply 95):
Airports such as LHR or IST will have a hard time competing in the long run with airports such as MUC or MAD.

A - The primary function of any airport is the safe receiving and dispatching of aircraft and pasengers therein.

B - People fly for one reason only - to get somewhere.

In the case of London there is such a huge amount of O&D that the terminals could be large tents. I doubt it would make much difference.

(slight exageration on my part but you know what I mean)

Airlines like BA and certainly VS are adapting to less and less transfer trafiic. Bring it on, let's free up some capacity at LHR I say !!
Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
 
JU068
Posts: 2094
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:23 am

RE: Which Is The Most Efficient Hub?

Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:56 am

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 96):
A - The primary function of any airport is the safe receiving and dispatching of aircraft and pasengers therein.

B - People fly for one reason only - to get somewhere.

In the case of London there is such a huge amount of O&D that the terminals could be large tents. I doubt it would make much difference.

Of course, I agree with you that London is a unique market that can not be compared to any other city. However for some other airlines such as Air France, Lufthansa or Turkish Airlines which base their business on offering connections via their hubs, they can not afford to have negative feedback from passengers. At least in Europe the airline business is so competitive that if someone doesn't like what LH offers in FRA he will gladly transfer the next time via ZRH or VIE or whatever...

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 96):
Airlines like BA and certainly VS are adapting to less and less transfer trafiic. Bring it on, let's free up some capacity at LHR I say !!

Yes but they are not doing that because they want to but because they are forced to do so simply because some highly retarded people are holding important positions and in such a way handicapping further expansion at London Heathrow.
 
mikey72
Posts: 1439
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 1:31 pm

RE: Which Is The Most Efficient Hub?

Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:28 am

Quoting ju068 (Reply 97):
Yes but they are not doing that because they want to but because they are forced to do so simply because some highly retarded people are holding important positions and in such a way handicapping further expansion at London Heathrow.

Now there is to be no 3rd runway at LHR it is a foregone conclusion, a no brainer that LHR will slip down the tables.

Who cares though? The traffic that really matters will always use the airport.

Now IAG have managed to secure growth for BA at LHR with the acquisition of BD we will be able to see the expansion of new routes going east and elsewhere. IAG have Terminal 5 at LHR, one of the best facilities in the world.

O&D is king there, let the transfer traffic bypass LHR. With only 2 runways it HAS to. It's the best result all around.
Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
 
fraapproach
Posts: 52
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:41 am

RE: Which Is The Most Efficient Hub?

Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:06 pm

I think from an operations standpoint FRA is very efficient, but its infrastructure is partly old and struggles to cope with the traffic.

I am confident that the general situation and the pax experience will improve in the near future with the new runway being open and substantial investment into terminal biuldings (Terminal A+ opening in summer). The congestion has completely eased since the new runway is operational with almost no traffic / weather related delays since then.

Other efficient hubs for me:

LHR
CDG
AMS
MUC
SIN
HKG
JNB (!)
LAX
ATL
DXB

[Edited 2012-01-05 04:14:18]

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