Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
5MillionMiler
Posts: 88
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:35 am

RE: Why No JFK-SYD Service?

Wed Dec 28, 2011 5:33 am

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 28):

Actually, Virgin was. They were looking at 5 777LRs for SYD-JFK and PER-LHR. Never happened.

I have dealt a lot with Qantas management and am not aware of the 777 ever being close to an order (although almost everyone I have spoken to there except the senior management thinks them NOT ordering 777s was a big mistake; I agree)
 
mandala499
Posts: 6600
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: Why No JFK-SYD Service?

Wed Dec 28, 2011 5:51 am

Quoting nycdave (Reply 48):
Not necessarily so -- there are routes that are flown with full tanks, and a fully fueled 77L with minimum cargo SHOULD be able to do this route. The question is, whether you can get people to pay enough of a premium to cover the fuel.

I just had another look... if on the way back the air distance is 9300nm...
Once you start adding pax (I use 300 seats in 3-class), catering (and I chose dirt cheap catering weights...) MTOW is already exceeded. This hasn't included things like IFE, etc... Add them with some nice catering suitable for such a distance... you'd be limited to 200pax or maybe even less on the 77L... And no cargo!

(and @sunrisevalley: then someone else insisted the 77L for SYD-LHR was a good idea????  &nbsp 

Mandala499
 
ferminbrif
Posts: 116
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2010 7:04 pm

RE: Why No JFK-SYD Service?

Wed Dec 28, 2011 6:23 am

Quoting nycdave (Thread starter):
Why No JFK-SYD Service?


I guess you mean "NON-STOP"???. So, the answer would be pretty obvious as some guys said above: too far away.....
 
koruman
Posts: 2179
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:08 pm

RE: Why No JFK-SYD Service?

Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:31 am

Quoting nycdave (Reply 45):
But what made me think of this more was the sheer number of Aussies I've been running into the past couple years in NYC. Especially with the dollar parity, the US has become a relative bargain both for leisure travelers and entrepreneurs. I wouldn't pin any NYC-SYD route on US leisure travelers in a million years... but on business pax and Aussie leisure travelers and ex-pats, I think the numbers MIGHT be there.

You should see the number of Aussie leisure travellers in Hawaii and Los Angeles then!

I went to Hawaii four times this year, and one of them was just for an Australian's birthday party.

You are right that dollar parity combined with 4-5 weeks' annual leave have made Australians into major players in US tourism.

But the growth is primarily in travel to Hawaii and southern California. New York is far lower on most Australian people's "to do list".
 
emirates202
Posts: 237
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:13 am

RE: Why No JFK-SYD Service?

Wed Dec 28, 2011 9:51 am

What airline do you think, if possible would do it?

DL is the first that pops in to my head
 
nycdave
Topic Author
Posts: 301
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2010 4:22 pm

RE: Why No JFK-SYD Service?

Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:54 pm

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 49):
If it's plenty... then are the SIN-LAX/EWR non-stops always full while the 1 stopper is not? No, both cater to various market segments.

I said pax PREFER n/s... how much they'll pay for it is largely dependent on the market. In general budget travelers will pay a relatively small premium, business and luxury travelers a much larger premium. It all depends on how much the premium is, and how much the pax can afford, SQ's n/s EWR-SIN doesn't hurt business on the 1 and 2-stop routings, but it manages to fly at a profit just fine all the same.

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 49):
(Those who ask why fly over SIN and not fly over HKG, well, airway structures make the SIN overfly shorter than the HKG overfly... to which some refuse to believe like those who believe the earth is flat!!)

No, I'm just wondering why you'd choose the longest possible routing... SIN is a LONG haul west from Oz. In that direction, you'd be much better going further over the pole and coming down via Japan before crossing the equator, no? Going eastbound, I imagine it'd be better to tack on LAX-NYC to the SYD-LAX route, right? While SIN-EWR may be useful for COMPARISON, SIN is way too far out of the way to be useful for ROUTING.
 
User avatar
sunrisevalley
Posts: 5392
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 3:26 am

RE: Why No JFK-SYD Service?

Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:57 pm

Quoting 5MillionMiler (Reply 50):
Actually, Virgin was. They were looking at 5 777LRs for SYD-JFK and PER-LHR. Never happened.

Not surprising. A westbound flight plan summary posted on this site by SX1899 for PER-LHR showed a 19hr gate to gate time for a 77L. This is an ESAD of about 8700nm.
 
mandala499
Posts: 6600
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: Why No JFK-SYD Service?

Wed Dec 28, 2011 9:08 pm

Quoting nycdave (Reply 55):
No, I'm just wondering why you'd choose the longest possible routing... SIN is a LONG haul west from Oz. In that direction, you'd be much better going further over the pole and coming down via Japan before crossing the equator, no?

I was using the eastbound to respond to flyku, and that should anyone has an idea of going back eastbound... it's not worth it. As challenging as JFK-SYD is westbound is at around or over 9300nm air distance, it's a heck of a lot shorter than going eastbound.

Quoting nycdave (Reply 55):
I said pax PREFER n/s... how much they'll pay for it is largely dependent on the market. In general budget travelers will pay a relatively small premium, business and luxury travelers a much larger premium.

Preference for nonstop, after roughly the 14-15hr mark, stops for a lot of people, the business travellers continue.
This was I think the case for why SQ opted to dump Y class and make the whole plane J class. J pax just couldn't get on the flight and the Y fare was just too expensive except those travelling Y on business. Once you go above the 15hr mark, it gets cheaper for the airline to make it a 1 stop (per trip the fuel burn difference can be around 11%, and goes higher the further you go).

And by the looks of it, the way back, one may need to reduce the number of passengers to below 300... 200 perhaps?
Is a 2/3 premium desirable to the market?
 
LONGisland89
Posts: 568
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2006 3:34 am

RE: Why No JFK-SYD Service?

Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:09 pm

I'm afraid the only way we'll see JFK-SYD nonstop will be with low-earth orbit, scram-jet type aircraft that can make the trip in 1-3 hours. Maybe in our lifetime?
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 23909
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

RE: Why No JFK-SYD Service?

Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:13 am

This route will happen someday. *After* a non-stop SYD-LHR.  
Quoting emirates202 (Reply 54):
DL is the first that pops in to my head

They have the 77Ls... The only plane that might be able to make the route profitable. But DL would need to create a 77L configuration sans Y a la the SQ's A345s.

QF went as far as having Boeing and Airbus submit bids with the A345 and 77L for SYD-LHR and SYD-JFK. The final analysis was costs would exceed the revenue. If QF couldn't pull it off... I doubt anyone else could at this time.

Quoting VC10er (Reply 14):

An 18+ hour flight is hard to do for most humans in Y. I always take p.s to SFO and then onto SYD.

I read about all these 'thresholds' in Y that people won't fly and it would be better with a connection or multiple connections... Yet now there are what would have been considered ULH routes being flown daily:

World's Longest Flights, 2nd Edition (by yeogeo Mar 27 2011 in Aviation Polls)#menu52

I'm not saying 18 hours might not be the threshold. However, I've heard of other lesser thresholds that we now regularly see flights exceed what people would have tolerated before. Heck, if you look at the last post in the link above, some of those ULH flights that were too long for Y are now at reasonable daily frequencies.

If you cannot tell, I'm a huge fan of market fragmentation. With the growth of air travel in Asia, that will only accelerate.

Quoting aviateur (Reply 38):
And even if.... just because a route is possible doesn't mean that it's practicable or profitable. If so, rest assured SOMEBODY would be flying it! There are zillions of routes that SEEM to make sense, but that, for whatever reason, aren't flown.

This I'm certain is logic that will be broken by new aircraft and market growth. I never would have thought to see LAX-DXB or SYD-DFW as non-stop flights... but here they are. While I'm a fan of the A380 for trunk routes, the 787 will open some new long haul routes thanks to its lower cost per flight. SYD-JFK will happen after SYD-LHR, but I'd be surprised if they never happened.

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 47):
I can't see this being feasible without mid-air refueling for passenger airplanes which I have advocated for in the past. Even then, I am not sure what the point is if you can't do it a lot faster.

Mid-air refueling, in commercial service, was only implemented by Imperial Airways to my knowledge. The costs are staggering. There is the need to launch a 2nd aircraft and coordinate the 'meet up.' The is the delay due to the drop in altitude for the air to air refueling (sorry, but one isn't going to do high speed air to air refueling with 200+ passengers lives at stake). Dispatch reliability will be what is available for both aircraft.

There is also the *high* cost of making the receiving aircraft compliant with all the regulatory codes for air to air refueling. Think of combi-freighters how regulations have basically killed the economics of building new types. Due to military mishaps, the fire-codes are pretty extreme. There can be ZERO spark sources within X distance of the fuel introduction into the aircraft. That means that every motor in the F and J seats would have to be in an inert environment. (Ghad... the weight of purging systems...). Strict passenger control would also be required to prevent an ignition source from them... I see the costs too high for the few routes that might be enabled by air to air refueling.

Lightsaber
 
User avatar
DIRECTFLT
Posts: 2912
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:00 am

RE: Why No JFK-SYD Service?

Fri Dec 30, 2011 1:18 am

Quoting zrs70 (Reply 18):
Even if an aircraft could do it, would anyone really want to be in the plane that long?

I wouldn't want to be on a Jet Liner for that long. Maybe you get used to it, but the 10 1/2 hours I spent coming from FRA to DFW in Bus. class was a little much. Ideally, splitting up flights, getting time to stretch your legs, is good for all. If I did have to fly NS for 10 or more hours, I would want to be well rested and healthy before the trip, and not tired or run down.

Back in the day, the elite paid much to fly in the luxury of the airships, and, they could walk around, etc.

The super-rich today have their own jets, or lease the travel.

For the others that have the money, the sub-orbital flights will (someday) be available.
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Why No JFK-SYD Service?

Fri Dec 30, 2011 2:25 am

Quoting DIRECTFLT (Reply 60):
I wouldn't want to be on a Jet Liner for that long.

  

I won't do it anymore. About seven hours is it for me.

mariner
 
Gemuser
Posts: 5159
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:07 pm

RE: Why No JFK-SYD Service?

Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:17 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 61):
I won't do it anymore. About seven hours is it for me.

So you only go to the states via HNL and to Europe via the states? How practical/economic does that work out?

Gemuser
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Why No JFK-SYD Service?

Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:45 am

Quoting gemuser (Reply 62):
So you only go to the states via HNL and to Europe via the states? How practical/economic does that work out?

I will always give myself a break on some tropical island on the way to the US from NZ. Not just Hawaii - it could also be Fiji or Samoa or Tahiti.

I will always give myself at least one stopover (probably in Asia) on my way to Europe. Sometimes more than one stopover. Most airlines will give me a special deal (sometimes a freebie) on a good hotel at the stopover point.

After about seven hours on an aircraft I hit screaming-to-be-let-off the-aircraft-boredom and mostly, I don't see the point in paying all that money just to get there.

mariner
 
skyduster
Posts: 66
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:00 am

RE: Why No JFK-SYD Service?

Fri Dec 30, 2011 4:03 am

Quoting nycdave (Thread starter):
I'm going to ask what might WELL BE a really stupid question, but my curiosity got the best of me...

Why is there no direct SYD-JFK service?

I think your question is why no direct SYD-NYC, as people often forget about EWR...NYC's other int'l airport.

Anyways, there already is a direct SYD-JFK flight, but it's not non-stop.

"Direct" just means the same aircraft will take you to your final destination, even if it makes a stop. It's a single flight, single boarding pass, you and your luggage stay on the same plane, but some people may be picked up/dropped off at the intermediate stop.

All non-stop flights are direct (obviously), but a direct flight isn't necessarily non-stop.

Qantas' SYD-JFK flight makes a stop at LAX. Both legs of the flight are designated QF107.

Qantas' JFK-SYD also makes a stop at LAX. Both legs of this flight are QF108.

Qantas does not have the rights to carry domestic-bound passengers between JFK and LAX. As others already noted, some people may step off at LAX, to catch a flight to MEL.
 
thegeek
Posts: 1334
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 7:20 am

RE: Why No JFK-SYD Service?

Fri Dec 30, 2011 5:21 am

Quoting skyduster (Reply 64):

By your definition there isn't a direct flight SYD-JFK as it is an equipment varies flight.
 
Gemuser
Posts: 5159
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:07 pm

RE: Why No JFK-SYD Service?

Fri Dec 30, 2011 5:52 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 63):
I will always give myself at least one stopover (probably in Asia) on my way to Europe.

How do you manage NZ - Europe with one stopover AND keep within your 7 hour sector limit?

Gemuser
 
zrs70
Posts: 3853
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2000 4:08 am

RE: Why No JFK-SYD Service?

Fri Dec 30, 2011 6:31 am

Quoting skyduster (Reply 64):
"Direct" just means the same aircraft will take you to your final destination, even if it makes a stop. It's a single flight, single boarding pass, you and your luggage stay on the same plane, but some people may be picked up/dropped off at the intermediate stop.

Not exactly correct. In fact, most direct flights do require plane changes these days. More often than not, there is an equipment change as well. And even when the direct flight involves the same plane, when flying internationally, often times passenger and hand luggage are required to deplane at the stop.
 
747400sp
Posts: 3900
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 7:27 pm

RE: Why No JFK-SYD Service?

Fri Dec 30, 2011 6:52 am

There is one answer to this, range.
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Why No JFK-SYD Service?

Fri Dec 30, 2011 6:52 am

Quoting gemuser (Reply 66):
How do you manage NZ - Europe with one stopover AND keep within your 7 hour sector limit?

I think I said "at least" one stopover. But it is easy enough to do the journey and avoid long-range non-stops.

mariner
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 26099
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: Why No JFK-SYD Service?

Fri Dec 30, 2011 8:04 am

Since everyone seems to be focused on aircraft technical issues, lets also look at the potential underlying demand for any such service.


So here are some travel stats.

In 2010, 904,247 Australians visited the US.

The top 10 places visited were:

Los Angeles – 650,880
SF Bay Area – 297,208
Hawaii – 242,221
Las Vegas – 234,480
NYC – 207,680
San Diego – 135,600
DC – 126,560
Orlando – 108,480
Seattle – 81,360
Chicago - 54,240

(keep in mind, people visit multiple destinations on a single trip)

For NYC, however of that 207,680 total only 83,000 (227 day) actually flew O&D to from NYC directly, rest were on part of multistop US itineraries.

Considering the distance between NYC and Australia with a multitude of flight options in between, I doubt a nonstop even under the best circumstances can even capture 50% of that 227 passenger market today. (probably help explain why Qantas downgauged to the A330 on its JFK service)
Sure there will be US origin demand also, however at the moment the market is skewed by a good margin in favor of Australian travelers.


Another nugget of information – for the 2010 Australian visitors, 61% were on vacation, 20% visiting friends or relatives, and mere 15% were on business or convention.
In otherwords 81% of the market is leisure and likely price sensitive, so trying to gain a yield premium on a nonstop is likely not a viable option as the bulk of passengers will chase the best deal in the market.

[Edited 2011-12-30 00:13:11]
 
koruman
Posts: 2179
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:08 pm

RE: Why No JFK-SYD Service?

Fri Dec 30, 2011 8:45 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 70):
Another nugget of information – for the 2010 Australian visitors, 61% were on vacation, 20% visiting friends or relatives, and mere 15% were on business or convention.
In otherwords 81% of the market is leisure and likely price sensitive, so trying to gain a yield premium on a nonstop is likely not a viable option as the bulk of passengers will chase the best deal in the market.

I agree with all of LAXintl's points until this last one, which incorrectly ascribes American values upon Australians.

If you consult:
http://www.bestflights.com.au/cheap-...ts-results/North-America/Economy/1
and
http://www.bestflights.com.au/cheap-...s-results/North-America/Business/2

...you can compare the fares available to that 81% of the Australian outbound market which is leisure travellers.

The cheapest airlines are invariably United (because their economy product is by a vast margin the worst on the Australia-USA market) and the Chinese carriers. Yet their market share is miniscule.

It is the outbound Australian market which sustains these flights (apart from the UA one, which is sustained by Mileage Plus loyalty). And Australia has not had a recession - apart from Sydney - and long-haul passengers demonstrably weigh up their perceptions of quality and of convenience of routing against simple fare levels.
 
ozglobal
Posts: 2599
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 7:33 am

RE: Why No JFK-SYD Service?

Fri Dec 30, 2011 10:09 am

Quoting HKG212 (Reply 9):
Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 3):
I think you have to bear in mind that QF can barely make a daily A330 into JFK work

Interesting, I was not aware that QF droppped the 3X weekly 744 in favor of a daily A330 on LAX-JFK. Not sure what the advantage is vs. feeding into AA's frequent 762 LAX-JFK service. Just a matter of prestige?

It's also a question of selling the same quality from Oz to JFK. If you've paid a handsome amount for a J or F seat and just arrived on a QF A388 at LAX, it is quite a shock in terms of product and service to board an AA flight to JFK. QF need to do it to maintain their fare structure and at least offer a real international J product transcon USA.
 
tayser
Posts: 442
Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2008 10:49 pm

RE: Why No JFK-SYD Service?

Fri Dec 30, 2011 12:25 pm

Quoting The Coachman (Reply 39):
While true, you could route the flight as an international flight between the MEL and SYD international terminals and you get over this problem at SYD. The market for MEL and SYD together would be 7-8 million.

Or you could just brave it out in LAX and still do a one-stop from MEL to NYC avoiding SYD altogether. SYD and LAX are probably the two most horrible airports to transfer at - but from an Australian east coast perspective, why fly an hour to SYD to then get on a 15+ hour flight to NYC?

Quoting nycdave (Reply 45):
Although, then, you have to ask why there's a DFW-SYD route -- though that benefits from the Qantas/OneWorld hub at SYD.

hahah - OneWorld hub to North America from SYD.... MEL and BNE have daily (almost daily in BNE's case) flights to LAX on QF. Americans just don't understand that "their" hub model doesn't apply in Australia: look at international passenger growth out of MEL (and BNE!!!) in the past decade - it's been ALL on foreign carriers as QF have given MEL/BNE sweet F.A. in terms of new services.

SYD is only a hub to Australia if you're flying on QF to South America or South Africa - everywhere else, if you're in a city outside of SYD, you'll have far better choices on foreign carriers. And with VA reinventing itself domestically and joining up with various international carriers to give frequent flyers options to earn VA points on high quality carriers (compared to the wart on oneWorld's a*se: SA)">AA) - QF has (finally!) a battle on its hands.

I know the Sydney 2000 Olympics were heavily Americansed and subsequently were squarely aimed at attracting the American market to our shores (and it's been successful - for SYD - at least in terms scorching SYD = Australia in the American psyche JUST LOOK AT THIS FORUM!!) but what you lot on the other side of Pacific don''t realise is that the wealth being generated in Australia this past decade has been a LONG way away from SYD. In Australia they talk about the two-speed (but more accurate three-speed) economy: WA and QLD (the large land-masses with mineral wealth which is being dug up put on a boat to China) in top gear and the rest of the country in the lower gear. The REALITY is that QLD and WA are in top gear, VIC is in middle gear - tracking the national average and NSW/SA/TAS are in the lower gear and this is directly reflected in the amount of new foreign entrants to the MEL, BNE and PER markets. SYD is still #1 in terms of international passengers today. but its relevance is dissipating as every day passes.

The city itself has stagnated in population since the Olympics and MEL and BNE have been growing faster (population-wise and economically) and their international services at a higher % growth rate... within 10-20 years SYD will be a shadow of its former self in terms of being "the" gateway to Australia.

If there were any braincells in the HQs of Montréal Atlanta or Chicago, the carriers from the aforementioned cities would start exploiting the non-SYD markets before someone else does.

edit:
Quoting LONGisland89 (Reply 58):
I'm afraid the only way we'll see JFK-SYD nonstop will be with low-earth orbit, scram-jet type aircraft that can make the trip in 1-3 hours. Maybe in our lifetime?

B.I.N.G.O.

[Edited 2011-12-30 04:31:23]
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 26099
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: Why No JFK-SYD Service?

Fri Dec 30, 2011 6:09 pm

Quoting koruman (Reply 71):
I agree with all of LAXintl's points until this last one, which incorrectly ascribes American values upon Australians.

Its a pretty universal trait. People go after price.

Australia does not have a burgeoning LCC sector because people want service, they want a low price.

If service, quality, room and other high end needs were the driving force of Australian demand, you'd have airlines with much larger premium sections.

New entrants on OZ-USA such as VA and DL produced a 30% drop in average fare and stimulated the market greatly (up 25% between 2009 - 2010).

So there is definite price sensitivity and motivation behind the Australian consumer behaviour.
 
tayser
Posts: 442
Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2008 10:49 pm

RE: Why No JFK-SYD Service?

Fri Dec 30, 2011 11:11 pm

USA was a closed shop with only QF and UA "competing". QF only ordered the 744ER to start MEL-LAX as UA was going to get in before them (And they did AFAIK but then retreated as the planes they flew (And currently fly) struggle to MEL). Enter DL and VA and hello we have true competition and more seats and lower prices which naturally attracts many more people. Throw in a tanking USD which has hovered at parity for a year now (even at AUD/USD 0.8500 the USA is still very good value) and you can see why growth has been so good across the big pond.

Fast forward to today, actually - EUR/AUD just closed at its lowest price point ever: 1.2687 (or $1AUD = €0.79) - the USA is going to get a lot more competition from Europe for the Australian travelling dollar next year and with the enormous amount of choices Australians have flying westward as opposed to flying eastward, growth may become mute to the USA next year.

(Air) Canada needs to pull its finger out and start exploiting the Australian market - another 2 77W from AC could see YVR-SYD go 77W, a new daily YVR-MEL on 77L (the planes that fly YVR-SYD now) and a few weekly YVR-BNE and YVR-CNS on 788. I wouldn't put it past VA that they'll start whoring themselves to AC like they have to SQ, NZ, DL and EY.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Why No JFK-SYD Service?

Sat Dec 31, 2011 5:15 pm

Quoting tayser (Reply 75):
(Air) Canada needs to pull its finger out and start exploiting the Australian market - another 2 77W from AC could see YVR-SYD go 77W, a new daily YVR-MEL on 77L (the planes that fly YVR-SYD now) and a few weekly YVR-BNE and YVR-CNS on 788.

Personally I think the single daily AC YVR-SYD nonstop is enough for what is a rather small market. There are plenty of other connecting opportunities via the U.S. Adding more direct capacity would depress yields. Traffic is also quite seasonal. And what routes would you suggest AC drop in order to make the aircraft available for new Australia services?
 
nycdave
Topic Author
Posts: 301
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2010 4:22 pm

RE: Why No JFK-SYD Service?

Sun Jan 01, 2012 2:34 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 70):
So here are some travel stats.

Thanks! I'm kind of shocked that the numbers are so small! Does that include ex-pats at all (which I'm well aware would be an even smaller number) or those on work visas? Not disputing the figures at all... just kind of an eye opener! What's the source?

Quoting tayser (Reply 73):
(and it's been successful - for SYD - at least in terms scorching SYD = Australia in the American psyche JUST LOOK AT THIS FORUM!!)

Oh, rest assured, after my 2-month visit last year, I will *NEVER* make that mistake again... Actually the time I liked *least* in Oz was in Sydney, and I now loudly advise any of my friends contemplating a trip there to get the heck out of Sydney and see the rest of the country!

I have to admit I chose the thread title a bit poorly (I was up late and loopy), but was thinking of SYD and JFK as the main international portals...
 
HSVflier
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:20 am

RE: Why No JFK-SYD Service?

Sun Jan 01, 2012 2:27 pm

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 47):
3) I am not sure USAF runs their C-17's on 20 hr flights even with in flight re-fueling. I do know some planes will occasionally take off with cargo and 50% gas and then immediately refuel mid-air for a long journey.

i know several folks who have done longer than 20 hours on one flight for a C-17
 
rjm777ual
Posts: 237
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:32 pm

RE: Why No JFK-SYD Service?

Sun Jan 01, 2012 6:36 pm

Well, the 772LR has the range, it's just their isn't enough demand for this route.
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 26099
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: Why No JFK-SYD Service?

Sun Jan 01, 2012 6:47 pm

Quoting nycdave (Reply 77):
Thanks! I'm kind of shocked that the numbers are so small! Does that include ex-pats at all (which I'm well aware would be an even smaller number) or those on work visas?

The numbers are for anyone travelling on Australian passport making entry into the US.

I'm not sure why you say the numbers are small. Excluding Canada/Mexico, Australia was the 7th biggest group of visitors to the US in 2010, and most likely move up a notch in 2011. Quite an achievement for a nation of 22mil.

Maybe a better way of putting it, is 1 in almost 23 Australians visited the US in 2010 - compared to only 1 in 633 US citizens having gone the other way.

Quoting nycdave (Reply 77):
What's the source?

Ultimate source is US CBP immigration arrival data that have been combined with US Dept of Commerce and various tourism sources to come up with more specific visitor profiles.
 
nycdave
Topic Author
Posts: 301
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2010 4:22 pm

RE: Why No JFK-SYD Service?

Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:07 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 80):
I'm not sure why you say the numbers are small.

Haha, I guess because of the number of Aussies I've met in my home city of 8.5 mill  

The numbers make sense, it just feels weird to see those numbers, until really thinking them through  
 
HKG212
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:50 pm

RE: Why No JFK-SYD Service?

Mon Jan 02, 2012 5:42 am

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 24):
The advantage is providing a halfway decent product to their customers ( I say 'halfway decent' because the A330 operating the sector still has the obsolete Mark I sloping Skybed and also lacks premium economy)
Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 72):
It's also a question of selling the same quality from Oz to JFK. If you've paid a handsome amount for a J or F seat and just arrived on a QF A388 at LAX, it is quite a shock in terms of product and service to board an AA flight to JFK. QF need to do it to maintain their fare structure and at least offer a real international J product transcon USA.

The F and J products on AA transcon flights are quite good in fact. An Australian friend recently flew SFO-JFK in J and thought the inflight service and F&B was better than QF. Flat beds are not so important on these daytime flights. But I accept that QF may want to control their customers' experience all the way to JFK.
 
tayser
Posts: 442
Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2008 10:49 pm

RE: Why No JFK-SYD Service?

Mon Jan 02, 2012 10:24 am

Quoting HKG212 (Reply 82):
Flat beds are not so important on these daytime flights.

Flat beds aren't important on flights under 8 hours, full stop!

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos