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LAXintl
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Virgin America Plans EWR, Add More DFW/Florida Flt

Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:32 pm

The Star-Telegraph posted an interview with VX CEO David Cush, and Virgin chairman Richard Branson.

While EWR remains the carriers next route objective, if it cannot attain the required slots, the carrier would utilize new delivery aircraft to add 4th or 5th flights from DFW to LAX & SFO along with add capacity to Florida.

Cush also comments Dallas loads have been very healthy 80% range, they expect the station to be profitable 2012.

Also on broader terms Cush states that with even $125/bbl fuel the carrier expects to generate an operating profit in 2012, and has strong liquidity base with the added $150mil in new financing it secured in December.

Full story:
http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/01...virgin-america-could-base-new.html
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IrishAyes
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RE: Virgin America Plans EWR, Add More DFW/Florida Flt

Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:37 pm

Very interesting. Good news for DFW fliers! The options are definitely growing.

Intrigued that they mention the concept of having VS serve DFW. That would be overkill, IMO.
 
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STT757
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RE: Virgin America Plans EWR, Add More DFW/Florida Flt

Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:43 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
While EWR remains the carriers next route objective, if it cannot attain the required slots,

A previous article stated they are looking for enough slots to launch 3x daily LAX and 3x daily SFO from EWR.
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BMIFlyer
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RE: Virgin America Plans EWR, Add More DFW/Florida Flt

Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:45 pm

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 1):
Intrigued that they mention the concept of having VS serve DFW. That would be overkill, IMO.

SRB said he "would have" if AA had been allowed to go bust, but alas they haven't.....
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Independence76
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RE: Virgin America Plans EWR, Add More DFW/Florida Flt

Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:50 pm

Interesting plans. I'm not entirely sure of the availability of slots at EWR, but I can see them expanding at DFW anyway within the next year or two. With AA's bankruptcy, some frequencies may be cut back and VX will probably grab the extra slots as soon as they become available.
 
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RE: Virgin America Plans EWR, Add More DFW/Florida Flt

Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:52 pm

Quoting BMIFlyer (Reply 3):
SRB said he "would have" if AA had been allowed to go bust, but alas they haven't.....

SRB would have done a lot of things if others had allowed it, like fly to DFW, buy Concorde, etc... Pretty cheap when you know before you say it that it won't happen!
 
dbo861
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RE: Virgin America Plans EWR, Add More DFW/Florida Flt

Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:02 pm

Quoting Independence76 (Reply 4):
Interesting plans. I'm not entirely sure of the availability of slots at EWR, but I can see them expanding at DFW anyway within the next year or two. With AA's bankruptcy, some frequencies may be cut back and VX will probably grab the extra slots as soon as they become available.

If you're referring to AA cutting back at DFW, it's not a slot controlled airport so VX can expand as much as they want there. I wonder when VX will get away from only operating flights to LAX/SFO. Now would be the perfect time to expand DFW beyond LAX/SFO..possibly to JFK, MCO, FLL or BOS.

[Edited 2012-01-05 12:03:21]
 
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IrishAyes
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RE: Virgin America Plans EWR, Add More DFW/Florida Flt

Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:46 pm

Quoting dbo861 (Reply 6):
I wonder when VX will get away from only operating flights to LAX/SFO. Now would be the perfect time to expand DFW beyond LAX/SFO..possibly to JFK, MCO, FLL or BOS.

There is definitely prime real estate value in adding more DFW flights for VX. Particularly to South Florida and NYC.
 
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enilria
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RE: Virgin America Plans EWR, Add More DFW/Florida Flt

Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:48 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):

The Star-Telegraph posted an interview with VX CEO David Cush, and Virgin chairman Richard Branson.

While EWR remains the carriers next route objective, if it cannot attain the required slots, the carrier would utilize new delivery aircraft to add 4th or 5th flights from DFW to LAX & SFO along with add capacity to Florida.

Why does he reveal their route plans in advance given how much the other airlines hate them? Is that a good idea?
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Virgin America Plans EWR, Add More DFW/Florida Flt

Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:11 pm

What I find quite interesting here is that AA has for months now has continued to throw $99 fares in the market, and offer double AAdvantage miles against the VX foray, while VX continues to grow its loads and following.

Considering now VX will likely grow DFW further, and AA is bleeding red ink, it might as well return to more sane pricing and stop handing out free AAdvantage candy. AA should just realize that it wont be sitting on a near monopoly position any more in the DFW-SF/LA nonstop market and come to a more comfortable normal competitive state as it does on many other dozen markets where it faces a respectable second carrier.

Quoting enilria (Reply 8):
Why does he reveal their route plans in advance given how much the other airlines hate them? Is that a good idea?

Their desire for EWR is well know - they have had DOT filings, its made news on many occasions and even gotten politicians involved. So speaking about EWR is not revealing a secret.

Likewise the growing performance at DFW has been known (and discussed here) so adding more flights would hardly be a shocker.
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MaverickM11
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RE: Virgin America Plans EWR, Add More DFW/Florida Flt

Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:43 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 9):
Considering now VX will likely grow DFW further, and AA is bleeding red ink, it might as well return to more sane pricing and stop handing out free AAdvantage candy

Couldn't the same be said about VX as an airline?

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 9):
Likewise the growing performance at DFW has been known (and discussed here) so adding more flights would hardly be a shocker.

Short haul flights to Florida--great place for their F product 
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 9):
AA should just realize that it wont be sitting on a near monopoly position any more in the DFW-SF/LA nonstop market and come to a more comfortable normal competitive state as it does on many other dozen markets where it faces a respectable second carrier

When does the Wright amendment go away?
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RE: Virgin America Plans EWR, Add More DFW/Florida Flt

Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:46 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 9):
and AA is bleeding red ink,

And thats different from VX how?
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LAXintl
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RE: Virgin America Plans EWR, Add More DFW/Florida Flt

Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:07 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 10):
Couldn't the same be said about VX as an airline?

The causes of AA and VX financial pictures are different.

One is a mature airline that had to enter BK to now try to save itself, other is a growing upstart, that just secured another $150mil in financing.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 10):
Short haul flights to Florida--great place for their F product

Its a 5-hr flight from the West Coast.

Anyhow, people do pay for the VX F product which is is what matters. What started as F class seats for $499 are now selling for north of $1900-2200! Unlike AA, VX does not do freebie upgrades to those seats.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 10):
When does the Wright amendment go away?

2014

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 11):
And thats different from VX how?

According to Cush DFW should be profitable in 2012.

AA bleeds a lot more pushing $99 fares with its legacy overhead.
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MaverickM11
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RE: Virgin America Plans EWR, Add More DFW/Florida Flt

Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:17 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 12):
One is a mature airline that had to enter BK to now try to save itself, other is a growing upstart, that just secured another $150mil in financing.

Which brings the total blown, I mean, invested to?

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 12):
Its a 5-hr flight from the West Coast.

DFW-Florida?

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 12):
AA bleeds a lot more pushing $99 fares with its legacy overhead.

True, although thanks to CH11, AA's costs are coming down, while VX's are only going up. Plus that's only the introductory fare, and between the hub and loyalty program, AA still extracts a large premium to VX.
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Flighty
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RE: Virgin America Plans EWR, Add More DFW/Florida Flt

Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:38 am

Given that VX is not congesting EWR, they ought to be given equal access. If there are capacity constraints, they should be applied to the airlines congesting the airport, so they also have zero flights. Then, flights can be allowed equally up to the airport capacity.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Virgin America Plans EWR, Add More DFW/Florida Flt

Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:03 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 13):
Which brings the total blown, I mean, invested to?

No clue. However someone besides the travelling public seems to believe VX is a strong enough cause to continue funding its growth.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 13):
DFW-Florida?

Where do you get VX would launch DFW-Florida?

The article quote is:
"Cush said additional capacity could be added to its Florida destinations." = eg LA/SF-FLL/MCO

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 13):
True, although thanks to CH11, AA's costs are coming down, while VX's are only going up. Plus that's only the introductory fare, and between the hub and loyalty program, AA still extracts a large premium to VX.

I've flown to Dallas about 10-times in the last half year. As close in as 3-7 days the $99 fares are available on AA (matter of fact I was looking for a ticket for next week today and saw lots of $98 fares).
I don't believe I've ever paid more than $129-139 o/w range on AA since VX opened the route which compares to $179-219 of the past each way.
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wedgetail737
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RE: Virgin America Plans EWR, Add More DFW/Florida Flt

Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:36 am

VX could do a better job at coordinating connections. There are some connections that you can make one way, but not on a return.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Virgin America Plans EWR, Add More DFW/Florida Flt

Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:52 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 15):
However someone besides the travelling public seems to believe VX is a strong enough cause to continue funding its growth.

Sure, but "someone besides the traveling public" has also funded the likes of UA and US through how many bankruptcies?
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TWA772LR
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RE: Virgin America Plans EWR, Add More DFW/Florida Flt

Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:29 am

Since Virgin America is looking heavily into a larger DFW operation, and a big operation out of SFO, LAX, and NYC area, how bout a VA/AA merger?   
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dtwpilot225
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RE: Virgin America Plans EWR, Add More DFW/Florida Flt

Fri Jan 06, 2012 4:13 am

Interesting that spirit is run by ex virgin guys I wonder if they would ever partner up in the future?
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Virgin America Plans EWR, Add More DFW/Florida Flt

Fri Jan 06, 2012 4:20 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 15):
Where do you get VX would launch DFW-Florida?

Ah, there was some implication that they'd build up DFW

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
Add More DFW/Florida Flt
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 15):
I've flown to Dallas about 10-times in the last half year. As close in as 3-7 days the $99 fares are available on AA (matter of fact I was looking for a ticket for next week today and saw lots of $98 fares).

I believe it, but AA's average fare is still a good third higher than VX.

Quoting dtwpilot225 (Reply 19):
Interesting that spirit is run by ex virgin guys I wonder if they would ever partner up in the future?

It is? VX is certainly run by a lot of ex AA people. Most of the ex F9/B6 people at VX are long gone.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 17):
Sure, but "someone besides the traveling public" has also funded the likes of UA and US through how many bankruptcies?

True, but you put six decades of pre-deregulation costs and practices onto any carrier and it's going to be a disaster in this era

[Edited 2012-01-05 20:21:49]
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boilerla
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RE: Virgin America Plans EWR, Add More DFW/Florida Flt

Fri Jan 06, 2012 4:41 am

Quoting Flighty (Reply 14):
Given that VX is not congesting EWR, they ought to be given equal access. If there are capacity constraints, they should be applied to the airlines congesting the airport, so they also have zero flights. Then, flights can be allowed equally up to the airport capacity.

That's a pretty simplistic view of things. UA uses a lot of slots at EWR to feed their massive, massive international network out of EWR.

Besides, the same could be said of SFO, which is about to become slot controlled. Should VX be asked to give up its SFO flights so that somebody else can use them?

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 15):
I've flown to Dallas about 10-times in the last half year. As close in as 3-7 days the $99 fares are available on AA (matter of fact I was looking for a ticket for next week today and saw lots of $98 fares).
I don't believe I've ever paid more than $129-139 o/w range on AA since VX opened the route which compares to $179-219 of the past each way.

How much of AA's traffic is O&D compared to feed for DFW's connections? The LAX-DFW O&D market is probably pretty large but AA has a lot of connections at DFW. I honestly dunno, I don't fly AA often and I'm too lazy to look it up right now.

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 16):
VX could do a better job at coordinating connections. There are some connections that you can make one way, but not on a return.

VX seems to only care purely about O&D, and mainly premium leisure O&D. I can't take most of their flights because they are ill timed for business travel. I remember when I had to travel to DFW early in 2011, their only flights arrived past 10am or past 5pm. Not exactly ideal for business travel. I hear they have added frequency now, but it seems like the servie was started purely for leisure O&D travelers.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 12):
Anyhow, people do pay for the VX F product which is is what matters. What started as F class seats for $499 are now selling for north of $1900-2200! Unlike AA, VX does not do freebie upgrades to those seats.

Is their RASM that much more than UA and AA? I imagine it's somewhat diluted because they have so many medium-haul flights, but last time I looked, their RASM was about .08, compared to UA and AA's ~.105 or higher for domestic flights and even more for TPAC and TATL flights.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 9):
Considering now VX will likely grow DFW further, and AA is bleeding red ink, it might as well return to more sane pricing and stop handing out free AAdvantage candy.

VX seems to be guilty of giving away the farm too--in some cases, entire flights! I remember when they started ORD service, they offered to buy some UA elite members' return tickets on VX just to get me to try it (not that I'd give up guaranteed F vs. VX coach for a 4 1/2 hour flight). I've seen 2 for 1 coupon codes on flights to DFW and ORD, and I remember when I shopped at Banana Republic they offered me 20% off my next Virgin America flight out of LAX. UA and AA of course offer double mile promotions when they start service, but I don't recall them offering 20% off coupons at the Gap or 2:1 offers.
 
hiflyeras
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RE: Virgin America Plans EWR, Add More DFW/Florida Flt

Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:14 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 12):
a growing upstart, that just secured another $150mil in financing.

It's amazing that people/hedge funds give them another $150 million to piss away, just like all the other 'cash infusions' they've had over the last few years. They must be in debt up to their eyeballs yet we've never heard just how much. They stated that this latest 'loan' comes due in 4 years. Wonder what kind of interest they're paying?
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Virgin America Plans EWR, Add More DFW/Florida Flt

Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:35 am

Quoting boilerla (Reply 21):
How much of AA's traffic is O&D compared to feed for DFW's connections? The LAX-DFW O&D market is probably pretty large but AA has a lot of connections at DFW. I honestly dunno, I don't fly AA often and I'm too lazy to look it up right now.

Per a 2009 presentation I have, 43.1% of enplanement were local - about low 20mil annual passengers range.

As far as O&D, Dallas-LA basin local demand is about 3500 daily. Bay Area is about 1900/day.


Quoting boilerla (Reply 21):
Is their RASM that much more than UA and AA? I imagine it's somewhat diluted because they have so many medium-haul flights, but last time I looked, their RASM was about .08, compared to UA and AA's ~.105 or higher for domestic flights

Their last reported quarter - yield was 12.30 cents.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Virgin...s-Third-prnews-2925612870.html?x=0

Quoting boilerla (Reply 21):
VX seems to be guilty of giving away the farm too

Its marketing, which we can probably agree is critical to get ones name out.

But VX is many ways is unique - it has not follow traditional airline marketing playbook and has been extremely creative with various tie-ins from stores, to restaurants, to night clubs, to various community and sport events.

Quoting HiflyerAS (Reply 22):
It's amazing that people/hedge funds give them another $150 million to piss away, just like all the other 'cash infusions' they've had over the last few years. They must be in debt up to their eyeballs yet we've never heard just how much. They stated that this latest 'loan' comes due in 4 years. Wonder what kind of interest they're paying?

No more amazing that people investing in Skype, Twitter, soon to be Gogo inflight internet, or hundreds of other ventures that had yet to proved themselves with profits.

Anyhow, probably the investment will be converted to equity when they go for an IPO.
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klwright69
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RE: Virgin America Plans EWR, Add More DFW/Florida Flt

Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:01 am

Well, AF is giving up a slot at EWR.. But that's only one flight for VX.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Virgin America Plans EWR, Add More DFW/Florida Flt

Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:15 am

Florida does not mean just FLL and MCO. VX officials were at MIA a few weeks ago. Hopefully something can be worked out. Now is as good a time as any to enter the market.
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Cubsrule
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RE: Virgin America Plans EWR, Add More DFW/Florida Flt

Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:17 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 20):
True, but you put six decades of pre-deregulation costs and practices onto any carrier and it's going to be a disaster in this era

Agreed. My point was just that, at least in the airline industry, investor willingness to put money in does not indicate that the business is profitable.
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hiflyeras
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RE: Virgin America Plans EWR, Add More DFW/Florida Flt

Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:06 pm

Cush: We're projecting even with [crude oil at $125 a barrel and resulting high fuel prices] that we'll have a healthy operating profit in 2012.

http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/01...virgin-america-could-base-new.html

Note that that Cush says 'operating profit'. You can have an operating profit and yet still lose money after debt servicing and other expenses. Don't look for a 'net profit' from VX.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Virgin America Plans EWR, Add More DFW/Florida Flt

Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:07 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 23):
But VX is many ways is unique - it has not follow traditional airline marketing playbook and has been extremely creative with various tie-ins from stores, to restaurants, to night clubs, to various community and sport events.

...which is why I love visiting their Facebook page, which regardless of what promotion they have on there is followed by brutally scathing comments, mostly about their res system cutover.
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wladi755
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RE: Virgin America Plans EWR, Add More DFW/Florida Flt

Fri Jan 06, 2012 4:42 pm

What VX needs to do is start flying New York JFK-San Juan!
 
luv2cattlecall
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RE: Virgin America Plans EWR, Add More DFW/Florida Flt

Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:23 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 28):
...which is why I love visiting their Facebook page, which regardless of what promotion they have on there is followed by brutally scathing comments, mostly about their res system cutover.

Honest question: Why does one take joy in reading "brutally scathing comments"? It means that pax were greatly inconvenienced, and that the worker bees at VX are having to work their tails off - I fail to see how this is joyful to anyone, but perhaps you could enlighten me?
.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Virgin America Plans EWR, Add More DFW/Florida Flt

Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:35 pm

Quoting luv2cattlecall (Reply 30):
Why does one take joy in reading "brutally scathing comments"

I agree with him, actually. It shows that VX is a bit different. Does AA or UA host an official site where people can post scathing comments?
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MaverickM11
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RE: Virgin America Plans EWR, Add More DFW/Florida Flt

Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:44 pm

Quoting luv2cattlecall (Reply 30):
Why does one take joy in reading "brutally scathing comments"?

VX is a carrier with nothing original in their business plan other than "be hip!" or "social media!" and nothing exhibits that more than their facebook page. They're like Kardashian Airlines.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 23):
No more amazing that people investing in Skype, Twitter, soon to be Gogo inflight internet, or hundreds of other ventures that had yet to proved themselves with profits.

True--they have a lot in common with Groupon
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Polot
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RE: Virgin America Plans EWR, Add More DFW/Florida Flt

Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:46 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 31):

I agree with him, actually. It shows that VX is a bit different. Does AA or UA host an official site where people can post scathing comments?

All major US airlines appear to have an official facebook page, and all of them have comments bashing the airline.
 
milemaster
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RE: Virgin America Plans EWR, Add More DFW/Florida Flt

Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:51 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 32):
VX is a carrier with nothing original in their business plan other than "be hip!" or "social media!" and nothing exhibits that more than their facebook page. They're like Kardashian Airlines.

The inflight experience blows away anything else in the sky. We've moved all of our corporate travel between our DFW and LA offices from AA to VX and haven't looked back. We're not trying to be hip, we just know value when we see it.
 
laca773
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RE: Virgin America Plans EWR, Add More DFW/Florida Flt

Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:11 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 11):
Quoting boilerla (Reply 21):

VX seems to be guilty of giving away the farm too--in some cases, entire flights! I remember when they started ORD service, they offered to buy some UA elite members' return tickets on VX just to get me to try it (not that I'd give up guaranteed F vs. VX coach for a 4 1/2 hour flight). I've seen 2 for 1 coupon codes on flights to DFW and ORD, and I remember when I shopped at Banana Republic they offered me 20% off my next Virgin America flight out of LAX. UA and AA of course offer double mile promotions when they start service, but I don't recall them offering 20% off coupons at the Gap or 2:1 offers.

Nor is VX a "legacy" airline. Good for them for trying new things. The coupons were offered @ Banana Republic, not Gap. It maybe the same company, but not the same store.
 
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IrishAyes
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RE: Virgin America Plans EWR, Add More DFW/Florida Flt

Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:19 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 32):
VX is a carrier with nothing original in their business plan other than "be hip!" or "social media!" and nothing exhibits that more than their facebook page. They're like Kardashian Airlines.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 23):
No more amazing that people investing in Skype, Twitter, soon to be Gogo inflight internet, or hundreds of other ventures that had yet to proved themselves with profits.

True--they have a lot in common with Groupon

Not gonna lie, although both of these comments are borderline crass, I must admit they did make me laugh aloud. Esp Groupon and Kardashian.

Quoting wladi755 (Reply 29):
What VX needs to do is start flying New York JFK-San Juan!

Far too leisure-oriented and over-saturated by DL, UA, AA and B6. Lots of VFR traffic in addition that just want the cheapest fares and B6 has been particularly successful in capturing that segment by flying into secondary PR cities.

Quoting milemaster (Reply 34):
The inflight experience blows away anything else in the sky. We've moved all of our corporate travel between our DFW and LA offices from AA to VX and haven't looked back. We're not trying to be hip, we just know value when we see it.

I hear this more and more, and although it's not commonly admitted on a.net, I do think these sentiments are gaining traction. After awhile, people who have the highest status levels at AA, DL and UA eventually want to try a different product.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Virgin America Plans EWR, Add More DFW/Florida Flt

Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:23 pm

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 36):
I hear this more and more, and although it's not commonly admitted on a.net, I do think these sentiments are gaining traction.

The trouble is that there just aren't that many business passengers who never go anywhere besides the coasts, Chicago and Dallas. It makes a heck of a lot more sense to fly AA on DFW-LAX when you have status from many DFW-ATL/MIA/MSP/DEN/SEA flights on AA than it does to fly AA on DFW-LAX if that's the only route you ever fly.

Quoting polot (Reply 33):
All major US airlines appear to have an official facebook page, and all of them have comments bashing the airline.

Color me cynical, but I think some of them censor. The comments seem to be much less colorful than some on the VX page.
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DFWHeavy
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RE: Virgin America Plans EWR, Add More DFW/Florida Flt

Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:30 pm

I really hope they do expand the Dallas market. I flew them once round trip last year to LAX and their product was fantastic for the price that I paid. I would definitely look into flying them more if they start additional routes from DFW.

Once people try them, they would have a hard time going back to likes of AA on domestic flights when you don't need a true F (lie flat) product. The VX First product is amazing for a domestic flight.

Best of luck to them.
Christopher W Slovacek
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18246
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Virgin America Plans EWR, Add More DFW/Florida Flt

Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:59 pm

Quoting polot (Reply 33):
All major US airlines appear to have an official facebook page, and all of them have comments bashing the airline.

Anyone can compare for themselves. Facebook/VX vs anyone else is night and day.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
jfk777
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Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

RE: Virgin America Plans EWR, Add More DFW/Florida Flt

Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:03 pm

VA seems to be a large pain in AA's DFW hub. But then this is classic SRB in his never ending quest aginst BA, this time its BA's American cousin AA.
 
ScottB
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RE: Virgin America Plans EWR, Add More DFW/Florida Flt

Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:11 pm

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 36):
After awhile, people who have the highest status levels at AA, DL and UA eventually want to try a different product.

I don't buy that, because the people with the highest status levels on those carriers do get put into F -- and VX won't do that for them. You can't even get access to a shorter security line or bag fees waived since they don't offer that to frequent flyers.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 23):
Anyhow, probably the investment will be converted to equity when they go for an IPO.

Sure hope that unsecured debt came from a domestic source, then.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 32):
They're like Kardashian Airlines.

Or Paris Hilton or LiLo Airways. Maybe they can do a sex tape.
 
boilerla
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RE: Virgin America Plans EWR, Add More DFW/Florida Flt

Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:39 pm

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 36):
I hear this more and more, and although it's not commonly admitted on a.net, I do think these sentiments are gaining traction. After awhile, people who have the highest status levels at AA, DL and UA eventually want to try a different product.

As noted above, the sentiment I get is the opposite. I'm elite with UA because I fly so much to places that UA is strong at. Most of those flights are to places that VX doesn't even serve. Whether it's LAX-CTU, LAX-EUG, or LAX-ORD, I can use a SWU or rely on UDU to get upgraded, and choose from a lot of daily flights. Sure, when I fly a route that both UA and VX does have like LAX-ORD I could choose VX, but why? I can get an upgrade on UA and choose from 12 different daily flights.

The business traveler that is elite is elite for a reason--schedule choice and breadth of route network. VX has neither. (And yes, I've tried them, but I won't do it again for reasons above.)
 
travelin man
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Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 10:04 am

RE: Virgin America Plans EWR, Add More DFW/Florida Flt

Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:06 pm

Quoting BMIFlyer (Reply 3):
SRB said he "would have" if AA had been allowed to go bust, but alas they haven't.....

"Allowed to go bust"? What does that mean? They did enter bankruptcy, and now are working with their creditors.
 
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STT757
Posts: 14150
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: Virgin America Plans EWR, Add More DFW/Florida Flt

Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:46 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 40):
VA seems to be a large pain in AA's DFW hub. But then this is classic SRB in his never ending quest aginst BA, this time its BA's American cousin AA.

Due to foreign ownership restrictions in place there's no way SRB would ever be able to influence such type of business philosophy at VX, he's a minority stake holder at best. He doesn't even have that much influence (control) at VS anymore.

[Edited 2012-01-06 12:47:07]
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
BMIFlyer
Posts: 8064
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 7:11 am

RE: Virgin America Plans EWR, Add More DFW/Florida Flt

Sat Jan 07, 2012 12:51 am

Quoting travelin man (Reply 43):
"Allowed to go bust"? What does that mean? They did enter bankruptcy, and now are working with their creditors.

Just quoting what was written in the article  
Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
 
hiflyeras
Posts: 2283
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:48 pm

RE: Virgin America Plans EWR, Add More DFW/Florida Flt

Sat Jan 07, 2012 2:22 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 32):
They're like Kardashian Airlines.

   So true....I don't know who the hell they are but I can't stand them. All bling and no brain.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 41):
Sure hope that unsecured debt came from a domestic source, then.

Very true...or the DOT will be back sniffing around.
 
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LAXintl
Topic Author
Posts: 24802
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: Virgin America Plans EWR, Add More DFW/Florida Flt

Sat Jan 07, 2012 3:01 am

Quoting boilerla (Reply 42):
The business traveler that is elite is elite for a reason--schedule choice and breadth of route network. VX has neither. (And yes, I've tried them, but I won't do it again for reasons above.)

Might not work for you, but it might be a great options for others.

Anyhow VX in several markets has quite respectable frequencies. eg LA-SF, LA-JFK.
Even in ones where its limited, such as DFW they still garner good deal of suit & tie biz folks. I know even a large hotel chain with their HQ in Dallas that now gives VX their LA and SF traffic regardless of the larger travel relationships they have with AA.

Personally I'm a 10+ year AA EXP and UA 1K, and I'll requalify based on international partner travel most likely anyhow, however if I have a choice I do try to fly carriers like VX, B6 and WN domestically when I get a chance. Its not all about miles, or upgrades. Its about being treated civilly, and having a good travel experience, something which I feel is lacking when one compares the legacy dinosaurs next to these more nimble personable carriers.

At the end of the day, for every person that might decide to stick with AA, DL, UA etc, there are others that make the switch and don't look back. The great thing about the market is there is choice, from the Spirits, to the Delta's to the Virgin America's.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14622
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: Virgin America Plans EWR, Add More DFW/Florida Flt

Sat Jan 07, 2012 3:12 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 47):
however if I have a choice I do try to fly carriers like VX, B6 and WN domestically when I get a chance.

  

The key words, though, are "when I get a chance." And with a network that looks like VX's does, those chances don't come all that often for most of us.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
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STT757
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RE: Virgin America Plans EWR, Add More DFW/Florida Flt

Sat Jan 07, 2012 1:12 pm

I think VX entering the EWR-LAX/SFO market would prod UA into upping the ante on their trans-con service from EWR. Maybe not PS but how about hot meals again.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757

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