IND Super Bowl Flights

Indy · Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:36 pm

I know it is a bit early but it is interesting watching the schedule changes from week to week as the airlines prepare themselves for the flood of traffic in and out of Indianapolis for the big game. US and DL have been the ones to make the biggest changes so far. US has upgraded most flights to CLT to A321's from RJ service. Delta has eight 757's and an A320 scheduled to ATL and they in recent days changed the A320 to LAX to a high capacity F cabin 757-200. CO has added IND-SFO. The flight info I speak of reflects changes to the Feb 6th schedule. So far it seems AA hasn't made any schedule changes.

What is the biggest driver behind schedule changes? My guess with LAX is the demand for F seats. They have sold 24 of 26 seats to LAX. Could we see that flight eventually changed to an A332? Other than to the cities of the competing teams, are there any other route additions that are coming up (like SFO)? I assume Delta will wait until after the conference finals before adding frequencies to specific hubs like SLC if the game involves the 49ers.

sw733 · Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:49 pm

Quoting Indy (Thread starter):
US has upgraded most flights to CLT to A321's from RJ service

Interesting. They may have egg on their face if the Super Bowl ends up being, say, Green Bay vs. Cincinnati...can't imagine many connections via CLT for that crowd!

Indy · Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:49 pm

Another question on this... Does anyone know if the airlines at IND will be leasing temporary ticket counter space for the day after the game to cope with the large amounts of traffic? Delta doesn't really have the space they need to handle at least double the traffic of their busiest day. The other side of the row of counters they are on is completely empty. I can't imagine the airlines are going to try and use their existing space to deal with the volume of passengers expected on Feb 6th.

Indy · Mon Jan 09, 2012 4:44 am

DL 2175 to LGA on Feb 6th is a 757. That brings the DL schedule for the day to ten 757's which I am sure is a record for IND. I don't know if the airport has ever had ten 757's in a single day. That number will likely grow. At last count that is 8 to ATL, 1 to LAX and 1 to LGA. Are there any that I missed?

COSPN · Mon Jan 09, 2012 7:49 am

6 FEB CO has a few Xtra flights

2 XTRA 738 IND-ORD

2 XTRA 738 IND-EWR

1 XTRA 739 IND-SFO

blueflyer · Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:08 am

Quoting Indy (Reply 2):
I can't imagine the airlines are going to try and use their existing space to deal with the volume of passengers expected on Feb 6th.

It's TSA's ability to cope you need to question, not the airlines. Many visitors on package tours will get their return boarding pass:
a) at the hotel;
b) on the bus to the airport;
c) along with their inbound boarding pass.

Quoting sw733 (Reply 1):
can't imagine many connections via CLT for that crowd!

US Airways will have no problem whatsoever filling out these aircraft, no matter who plays. "That crowd" amounts to a small portion of the total attendance, the rest of the seats are filled by people coming from all over the US, if not the world.

Keep in mind that the two participating teams get about a third of the seats combined, and that usually they sell only half to season ticket holders, with the rest going to sponsors, team officials, players and whatnots, but in fact teams are under no obligations whatsoever to give their fans a single ticket (in 2010, the NO Saints sold less than 5,000 tickets to fans out of 13,000 seats they were given).

The biggest chunk of the remaining 2/3 goes to the NFL for its own sponsors, officials and partners. The balance goes to the host team, all other NFL teams and volunteers (each one usually gets a seat).

Of course, a lot of tickets are resold, but that doesn't change the fact that at this game, like previous games, paying fans from either participating city will be outnumbered by "people who got their ticket for free."

In fact, what with BofA being a sponsor of several teams, I bet half of US Airways' flights will be full of BofA executives and their guests and spouses (BofA headquarters are in CLT).

Indy · Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:14 pm

What can DL do now to add capacity to the NY area? The JFK flight sold out. There are a few seats left on an ERJ 170 but other than that everything else seems to be sold out to LGA on Feb 6th. Looks like they've filled a 757, A320, 2 x A319 and an E170. Would DL swap out the E170 for an A320 or 757 and open up the flight for more sales? Or is that pretty much the end of nonstop service to LGA that day?

Indy · Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:41 am

On Delta.com you right now cannot book F fare from IND to ATL and MSP. Only limited space appears to DTW on Feb 6th. I looked at some of the ATL seat maps and they appear to have seats. Has F sold out to MSP and ATL and people just haven't selected seats or is this an error? This is for the flights out of IND on Feb 6th.

Indy · Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:50 pm

According to OAG AA has a single ERJ-135 scheduled to LGA on Feb 6th. If you are going to schedule a Super Bowl flight isn't that a bit of an odd selection?

RobertS975 · Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:36 pm

I can tell you what DL is likely to do for special super bowl flights as this is what they have done in the past. When the two teams playing in the game have been determined, there will be many special number flights, not charters but sold on their website, from each of the two cities. Many of these flights will be on international configured 767-300s. The coach class tickets on these flights will generally be sold in only Y class (none of the discounted coach fares) , but a special rule Y class that declares it to be non-refundable.

There are some factors this year which could change the previous pattern. First, IND is so central and close to places like NYC, Green Bay, New Orleans, DEN and BOS that higher frequency smaller aircraft (757s and 737-800s) might be used. The only possible city that is somewhat distant is SFO. And also, IND is not particularly likely to be one of those Super Bowl venues that will attract people for a prolonged stay. So my prediction is that there will be many day of game special flights that will depart IND immediately after the game between midnight and 1AM CST. This will allow fans to avoid "minimum night" rules at the various hotels. This is exactly what happened when Super Bowls were held in places like Jacksonville, Pontiac, MI and Minneapolis.

I could be wrong, but those are my predictions.

Indy · Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:45 pm

Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 9):
could be wrong, but those are my predictions.

I'm not 100% sure about the 1am part but the rest looks pretty accurate in my opinion. I know the IAA predicts Feb 6th to be the big travel day. And so far it seems the airlines are scheduling in that way. There really is no reason to hang out here after the game. It will probably be very active downtown from Friday to Sunday and Monday everyone leaves.

Indy · Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:31 am

AA has added an MD80 to LGA. So that is their second flight they've added to LGA.

GentFromAlaska · Mon Jan 16, 2012 4:36 pm

I would certainly consider flying into SDF or CVG and renting a car as an alternative to avoid the IND crowds.

Tan Flyr · Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:35 am

Quoting Indy (Reply 11):
AA has added an MD80 to LGA. So that is their second flight they've added to LGA.

For years I have tried to figure out why AA does not take advantage of days/ events like this. I used to email / contact them about our conventions (attendance 14-17000) and suggest extra DFW to wherever it was like MSY / MCO either a couple of extra MD80's or 757 or 767's. No luck.

As for IND same thing for the Indy 500..UA has upped a couple of ORD Flights to 757's and I think TWA used to add a widebody to STL the next morning years ago.Nope, not AA..when they could easlily fill several 757's or add'l MD-80's to DFW and ORD the morning after the race.

They have always seemed willing to leave money on the table.

Indy · Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:33 am

Quoting tan flyr (Reply 13):
They have always seemed willing to leave money on the table.

I will give DL and US credit. They stepped up well in advance and started upgrading equipment. These two carriers seem more than willing to go after the Super Bowl traffic. UA/CO have made some changes but I don't really know the workings of the company yet to know whether or not this is CO's doing versus UA or what. Are the shots all called by one management team? I ask because the upgrades seem to be all CO. I haven't noticed any upgrades on UA equipment.

kc135topboom · Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:27 pm

Quoting sw733 (Reply 1):
They may have egg on their face if the Super Bowl ends up being, say, Green Bay vs. Cincinnati...can't imagine many connections via CLT for that crowd!

Not this year as the remaining teams are the NE Patriots, Baltimore Ravens AFC teams), SF 49ers, and NY Giants (NFC teams).

I expect the Super Bowl teams to be the Patriots vs. the 49ers.

Indy · Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:29 am

Some major changes have been loaded in OAG. Delta now has three 763's and one 767 scheduled on IND-LGA for Feb 6th. Will dig for additional changes and post them as I find them.

Edit: Ok here are the major upgrades I could find and so far it all seems to be Delta.

LGA 3 x 763, 1 x 767
BOS 2 x 763
BWI 2 x 753
LAX 1 x 763

So far 7 widebody flights out of IND on Feb 6th which I believe is easily a record for passenger service from here.

[Edited 2012-01-21 18:42:05]

Indy · Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:20 pm

Congratulations to the Patriots for being the first team to make it to the Super Bowl in Indy. Does this mean that Delta will pull those two 753's that were loaded into OAG for IND-BWI on Feb 6th?

FutureUScapt · Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:25 am

As far as the BOS adds go:

US has added 2x BOS-IND service on 3Feb and 4x IND-BOS flights on 6Feb. All flights are operated by 321 aircraft.

Meanwhile, DL has added 2 additional trips from BOS-IND on 3Feb (both operated on M88 equipment) and 2 additional trips from IND-BOS on 6Feb (both operated by 763 equipment).

[Edited 2012-01-22 21:32:18]

Indy · Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:49 am

I think DL may have jumped the gun a bit by scheduling a ton of extra seats to ATL early in the playoffs. They had 2 x 753, 6 x 752 and 1 x A320 and so far there appears to be a significant number of open seats remaining. Meanwhile DTW is almost completely sold out. BTW what is the story of JFK versus LGA? DL is putting a great deal of capacity on IND-LGA but only one CRJ-900 on IND-JFK. Also now that the Ravens are out I suspect DL will pull those two 753's from OAG.

Is CO/UA going to do anything? For about the last 36-48 hours there have been no seats available on IND-ORD and IND-EWR on Feb 6th. Are they planning on sitting this out and leaving the flying to US and DL?

Indy · Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:24 am

Quoting FutureUScapt (Reply 18):

US has added 2x BOS-IND service on 3Feb and 4x IND-BOS flights on 6Feb. All flights are operated by 321 aircraft.

You can add an FL 737 to BOS from IND on Feb 6th.

premobrimo · Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:21 pm

How are the logistics working for this at Delta in IND? They rarely if ever have widebody service into IND and now they have a handfull. Are they renting container loading equipment from FedEx?

RL757PVD · Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:35 pm

It would be nice if PVD gets in on some fo the passenger action since it is the preferred airport for the Patriots.

Indy · Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:09 pm

Quoting premobrimo (Reply 21):
How are the logistics working for this at Delta in IND? They rarely if ever have widebody service into IND and now they have a handfull. Are they renting container loading equipment from FedEx?

If memory serves me correct they used FX equipment when the NW 744 was in town acting as a UCLA flight for the Final Four a number of years ago. There is also equipment that Cargolux uses. Not sure if that can be used as well or not. There must be some kind of equipment around the airport to handle the race teams and the NFL teams that come to town.

atrude777 · Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:13 pm

Southwest/Air Tran Additions

Friday, February 3rd:

Southwest: extra sections Boston-Indianapolis and Islip-Indianapolis

AirTran: extra section Boston-Indianapolis

Monday, February 6th:

Southwest: extra sections Indianapolis-Boston and Indianapolis-Islip

AirTran: extra sections Indianapolis-Boston and Indianapolis-Atlanta

Alex

mmedford · Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:13 pm

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 15):
I expect the Super Bowl teams to be the Patriots vs. the 49ers.

Eat that...

-Big Blue

PSU.DTW.SCE · Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:25 pm

IND-DTW on 2/6/12:

1x E75 1x A319, 3x A320, 2x MD88

compared to the normal schedule of:
2x CRJ, 1x ERJ, 3x E75, 1x A319

boilerla · Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:51 pm

Quoting tan flyr (Reply 13):
They have always seemed willing to leave money on the table.

It's a question of resources. They can't exaclty buy a couple of new 737s for just this one weekend; It's a zero sum game. If you have high fleet utilization, which most airlines have these days, you don't have planes sitting around, and you have to route it thru IND somehow.

Quoting Indy (Reply 19):
Is CO/UA going to do anything? For about the last 36-48 hours there have been no seats available on IND-ORD and IND-EWR on Feb 6th. Are they planning on sitting this out and leaving the flying to US and DL?

PMUA was very narrowbody constrained, so the merger with CO basically is covering PMUA and PMCO.

All the UA flights to IND for Friday & Monday are oversold/soldout. Seems like it would be a good place to add some flights out of CLE, but they may not have the metal to spare.

RobertS975 · Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:46 pm

DL 8785 special flight IND-BOS, B767-300, departure just after midnight on Monday, Feb 6th, 0045... only bookable in Y class. In the past, even though Y class, the fare was still not refundable.

Tan Flyr · Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:28 am

Quoting boilerla (Reply 27):
It's a question of resources. They can't exaclty buy a couple of new 737s for just this one weekend; It's a zero sum game. If you have high fleet utilization, which most airlines have these days, you don't have planes sitting around, and you have to route it thru IND somehow.

Boil..yes I am aware of that. My comments cover a period of years. Memorial Day weekend comes every year and generally reduced flying in some business markets for weekends, and particularly 3 day weekends, usually would have some equipment avaiable for extra flights or larger planes. But that is their decision..like I said UA and a long time ago TW figured out how to do it. Quick jaunts down from ORD or even up from STL or DFW are not that long of flights.

Anyway..on to the Superbowl..Go Giants!

PSU.DTW.SCE · Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:38 am

IND-MSP on 2/6/12:
1x CRJ, 1x CR9, 1x DC-9-50, 1x A320, 1x 738, 1x MD90

Compared to the normal schedule of:
1x CRJ, 1x CR9, 1x DC-9-50, 1x A319, 1x A320

IND-SLC on 2/6/12:
1x 738

Compared to a normal schedule of:
1x CR9

Indy · Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:51 am

Given the lack of capacity in IND I'd guess there will need to be an additional 125-150 flights added over what has currently been added (at 175-180 seats per flight 757/A320). That is figuring flights for only 30,000 people would be needed. The seating capacity at the stadium for the game will be around 70,000 and a local news report had estimated as many as 150,000 visitors related to the game. An estimate of 125-150 flights could be low. I doubt the actual number falls below 125. I guess for one day IND gets to play big airport. We are going to discover that a poor concept the civic plaza was and we are going to learn that a mess the roads on airport property really are. Fortunately there is plenty of parking and the concourses are nice. If you are coming to Indy good luck getting a cab. Good luck getting a hotel room as well. It is nice the city landed the big game but I just don't think the city is big enough to handle it. Not enough hotel rooms. Not enough cabs. I hope there are at least enough rental cars.

PSU.DTW.SCE · Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:09 am

Quoting Indy (Reply 31):
Given the lack of capacity in IND I'd guess there will need to be an additional 125-150 flights added over what has currently been added (at 175-180 seats per flight 757/A320). That is figuring flights for only 30,000 people would be needed.

That is pretty optimistic. I assume they are banking on significant traffic to utilize ORD, MDW, DAY, CVG, SDF for commerical.

Also there will also be a lot of GA traffic too.

When the Super Bowl was in Detroit, hotel rooms, limos, party buses and taxis were all in short supply. Companies from Ohio came in to bring limos and busses.

I'd say realistically, they are looking at probably getting 20-30 additional flights, not 125.

Okie · Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:27 am

Quoting Indy (Reply 31):
Good luck getting a hotel room as well. It is nice the city landed the big game but I just don't think the city is big enough to handle it. Not enough hotel rooms. Not enough cabs. I hope there are at least enough rental cars.

Indy deals with the Indy 500 on Memorial Day weekend, Nascar in August (the speedway seats 257,000 and 400,000 counting the infield) and the US Nationals on Labor Day weekend (roughly 130,000) for all intents and purpose they should be able to handle a small group of 70,000 for the Super Bowl.

Okie

indywa · Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:48 am

Hotels are sold out as far as Muncie, so if it's a last minute thing, yeah...not going to happen. The civic plaza and the roads at the airport? I'm not sure how bad these are from a passenger standpoint...confusing signage? Not sure what's horrible about them...

Indy · Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:53 am

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 32):

I'd say realistically, they are looking at probably getting 20-30 additional flights, not 125.

Everything I've heard locally says they are looking at much higher numbers. The IAA is making preparations for an enormous rush on Feb 6th. If we were talking 20 to 30 additional flights there wouldn't be much of a problem.

Quoting okie (Reply 33):
Indy deals with the Indy 500 on Memorial Day weekend, Nascar in August (the speedway seats 257,000 and 400,000 counting the infield) and the US Nationals on Labor Day weekend (roughly 130,000) for all intents and purpose they should be able to handle a small group of 70,000 for the Super Bowl.

For whatever reason they are apples to oranges. Most of your out of town race traffic comes by road. You do get air traffic but its nothing compared to what is expected for the Super Bowl. I've been to IND a couple of times on the Monday right after the race and while it is busy it isn't a big deal. Even the old terminal could handle that traffic with little problem. The traffic prediction for Monday the 6th will crush IND traffic records.

Here are some photos of the NW ops at IND after the race. The pics are of the old IND A concourse which was the busiest concourse.

http://www.indairport.org/gallery/dfec8fe8618a9ceb86e11f86f8a0b2e7.jpg

http://www.indairport.org/gallery/8125da98ddfc2b245d1a9b394a19b6e3.jpg

Those photos were typical of post race traffic.

[Edited 2012-01-23 20:57:51]

Indy · Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:02 am

Quoting IndyWA (Reply 34):
The civic plaza and the roads at the airport? I'm not sure how bad these are from a passenger standpoint...confusing signage? Not sure what's horrible about them...

Civic Plaza is small and just not designed to handle a lot of traffic. Too much blockage everywhere. And the security checkpoints are basically hidden amongst the shops. Very odd design. The flow around the ticket counters is very poor as well. IND is going to realize that just because something looks good on paper doesn't mean it is going to work well in the real world.

As for the roads the signs are a bit confusing. But that isn't the biggest problem. The biggest problem comes after you've dropped someone off and after you've paid for your parking and you are leaving. The traffic merges into the main road in a very bad way. Very short ramps with blind spots take you into the main flow of traffic. Also you are merging into a lane where traffic coming around may be trying to merge into as people attempt to go around and look look for more parking or whatever. You have to be really careful coming out of parking on a normal day. It wouldn't surprise me if there were more than a couple of accidents on airport roads.

BTW... the lack of hotels could really hurt the city with this event. Up until Sunday there were only 4 hotels that had any rooms left and they were all very low quality places. Where are the fans of the teams going to stay?

[Edited 2012-01-23 21:06:27]

Indy · Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:48 am

According to IND they are expecting approximately 40,000 additional passengers during the game week with most leaving on Monday the 6th. The IND site also says they expect 75 additional commercial flights and 60 charters. So basically 135 additional flights which does not count all the corporate and private jets. The numbers from IND really don't add up. You can't server 40,000 passengers with those flight numbers. If those passenger numbers reflect 20,000 in and 20,000 out then you might be able to pull it off. If those are 40,000 unique passenger and each have a round trip ticket then you'll be hard pressed managing that with the limited number of flight. 40,000 passengers leaving would need about 225 flights on 752's. I don't know. DL and US have upgraded their normal schedule to a heavy dose of A320/321's, 752/753's and DL has added a number of 763/767's. The airlines may be able to pull it off with those upgrades and 75 additional large jet flights in addition to the 60 charters.

Indy · Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:07 pm

Dang I can't edit my last post. I hate having so many in a row.

Anyway.. United/Continental has added at least 3 more EWR flights. There is a 757-200, 737-900 and 737-800.

Edit: United/Continental has added a 757-200 to BOS on Feb 6th.

[Edited 2012-01-24 04:24:16]

GentFromAlaska · Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:29 pm

Quoting rl757pvd (Reply 22):
It would be nice if PVD gets in on some fo the passenger action

You would have to think this would be no-brainer! My wife flew WN BNA-PVD non-stop before WN ka-bashed it shortly after BOS was inaugurated. Fares into PVD were generally better which compensated for the drive to BOS

Okie · Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:02 pm

Quoting Indy (Reply 35):
Those photos were typical of post race traffic

Been there done that for multitudes of years after the US Nationals.
As previously mentioned TW used to up-gauge IND flights on race weekends, AA never did.

I made a comment once to a TW gate agent when the usual MD-80 was up-gauged to a 57 that it was nice to have a larger aircraft. His comment was with the increased race traffic, standby, and bumped passengers from other airlines was that he could fill a 47 if he had one. Not sure if that was an exaggeration but I think we get the point.

Okie

PVD757 · Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:33 pm

Quoting rl757pvd (Reply 22):
It would be nice if PVD gets in on some fo the passenger action since it is the preferred airport for the Patriots.

PVD finally got in on the action.

Available to book on Southwest.com:

2/3 & 2/6:

PVD-IND 5:00pm - 8:00pm flight #744
IND-PVD 8:35pm - 11:00pm flight #746

atrude777 · Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:33 pm

Quoting pvd757 (Reply 41):

2/3 & 2/6:

PVD-IND 5:00pm - 8:00pm flight #744
IND-PVD 8:35pm - 11:00pm flight #746

Thank the Customers who replied to the blog from Southwest!

http://www.blogsouthwest.com/blog/extra-sections-big-game-updated

Alex

boilerla · Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:15 am

Quoting Indy (Reply 38):
Dang I can't edit my last post. I hate having so many in a row.

Anyway.. United/Continental has added at least 3 more EWR flights. There is a 757-200, 737-900 and 737-800.

Edit: United/Continental has added a 757-200 to BOS on Feb 6th.

Interesting, all the new flights are early morning (7am) departures. Wonder where they will be coming from--they'd need to arrive in IND by 6:20am to make a 7:05 turn, but that'd be an early AM flight unless they are overnighting in IND.

Not really sure how this "flip side" of operations work.

Indy · Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:50 am

There will probably be a bunch of jets overnight. There are 20 gates in the A concourse plus plenty of space for DL to push jets back and park them until needed.

BTW DL added a 5:25am departure to DTW on the 6th. 757-200.

burnsie28 · Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:06 pm

The Patriots will be on a 763, also there will be numerous other flights including A330's and M88s.

exFWAOONW · Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:36 pm

When I worked at INDY on 500 weekend, they closed the cross-wind runway and parked a lot of the private and charter a/c wingtip to wingtip and ran shuttle buses to the FBOs. Are they planning to do something similar for the superbowl?

usflyguy · Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:48 pm

Quoting Indy (Reply 44):

I don't think there will be too many planes overnighting simply due to the lack of available hotel rooms for the crews.

Indy · Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:19 pm

Quoting burnsie28 (Reply 45):
The Patriots will be on a 763, also there will be numerous other flights including A330's and M88s.

Has an A330 already been loaded on a route to/from IND? I've seen the 763's but no A330's yet.

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 47):

I don't think there will be too many planes overnighting simply due to the lack of available hotel rooms for the crews.

Unless of course the airlines already had the rooms reserved. But I can see where a lack of rooms is going to create big problems. There are flights leaving here around midnight so it is possible crew may leave on those and new crew may arrive on the very early morning flights.

burnsie28 · Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:09 pm

Quoting Indy (Reply 48):
Has an A330 already been loaded on a route to/from IND? I've seen the 763's but no A330's yet.

They are all charters.

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