Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
Northwest727
Topic Author
Posts: 379
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2005 10:38 am

AA Bankruptcy=New Branding?

Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:35 pm

Note to Moderators, if you feel this belongs in the Polls/Preferences forum, feel free to move it.

With the Chapter 11 filing of AA, and the fact throughout airline history, seems to me that once an airline goes bankrupt, there it almost always an inevitable "brand-revitalization" as if the old brand was tarnished. New logo, new livery, new slogan, etc.

Many people argue on here that AA's current livery and logo, dating from the late 1960s, is a timeless design. Do you think it will change when this is all said and done with, and if so, what do you think we will see out of the "new AA" once it emerges from bankruptcy?
 
EricR
Posts: 1226
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:15 pm

RE: AA Bankruptcy=New Branding?

Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:40 pm

I think AA is long overdue for a refreshed livery. The old 1970's style cheatline needs to go.
 
DLBOIFIN
Posts: 145
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 6:51 am

RE: AA Bankruptcy=New Branding?

Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:44 pm

Quoting EricR (Reply 1):
I think AA is long overdue for a refreshed livery. The old 1970's style cheatline needs to go.

I disagree. In my opinion, the AA livery is the most iconic on in the US market. I'm guessing that there will be lot of pressure to update the image when they are exiting ch.11, but I really hope they would stick with their classy silver look.
 
mikey72
Posts: 1439
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 1:31 pm

RE: AA Bankruptcy=New Branding?

Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:46 pm

Quoting Northwest727 (Thread starter):
Many people argue on here that AA's current livery and logo, dating from the late 1960s, is a timeless design. Do you think it will change when this is all said and done with, and if so, what do you think we will see out of the "new AA" once it emerges from bankruptcy?

I've always wanted to see an an American carrier with the classic red, white and blue.

They are the national colours after all.

You know...a bit sort of BA-landor-esque...maybe with an eagle motif instead of the crest...very AA.....

Maybe if they just changed the sliver for a off-white pearl..kept the rest the same..that could work.

[Edited 2012-01-10 10:55:03]
Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
 
commavia
Posts: 11489
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

RE: AA Bankruptcy=New Branding?

Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:47 pm

I hope not. AA's logo and livery are timeless and classic, and don't look in the least bit dated (at least not to me).

However, what I think AA definitely does need to "rebrand" is its corporate image - in terms of print and media, service and marketing materials, etc. The excessive use of Arial Black for headings is boring and ugly. They need to stay with a modern-looking sans-serif font, but I think something along the lines of Calibri or even Gill Sans would be far better.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: AA Bankruptcy=New Branding?

Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:52 pm

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 3):
I've always wanted to see an an American carrier with the classic red, white and blue.

They are the national colours after all.

They are the national colours of many countries ( just look at the Union Flag, or across the Channel, the tricolor) , there is nothing uniquely American about red, white and blue.
 
kaitak
Posts: 9996
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 5:49 am

RE: AA Bankruptcy=New Branding?

Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:52 pm

I think the livery and overall branding needs to be updated; it is over 40y old now, which is by far the oldest of any I can think of. However, I don't think bankruptcy should be the trigger to do this; the cost of doing it for such a large airline would be massive - and not something to please the airline's creditors, especially those stung as a result of the bankruptcy process.

I think a far better juncture would be a merger, i.e. if the rumoured marriage between US and AA goes ahead. Hopefully they won't do a UA and just put "American Airlines" titles on US Airways' basic colours!
 
ContnlEliteCMH
Posts: 1389
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 8:19 am

RE: AA Bankruptcy=New Branding?

Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:05 pm

I love AA's livery, but only if the base color is silver. If the new composite airliners require a grey base color, I'm much less a fan and wouldn't mind selecting something else on which to put the red, white, and blue cheatline and the AA on the tail. Please keep the AA on the tail.

Quoting kaitak (Reply 6):
I think a far better juncture would be a merger, i.e. if the rumoured marriage between US and AA goes ahead. Hopefully they won't do a UA and just put "American Airlines" titles on US Airways' basic colours!

Your hope shall be unfulfilled, for this is exactly what will be done, and exactly what *should* be done. It takes a long time to paint a large fleet of airliners, and pulling them out of service because the name clashes with the colors is out of the question.
Christianity. Islam. Hinduism. Anthropogenic Global Warming. All are matters of faith!
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14837
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: AA Bankruptcy=New Branding?

Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:12 pm

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 5):
there is nothing uniquely American about red, white and blue.

  

Nor is there anything uniquely American about using them in airline branding (see BA, for instance).

And I think US pulls off the red white and blue better than AA does as well.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
AJMIA
Posts: 434
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 11:29 pm

RE: AA Bankruptcy=New Branding?

Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:32 pm

I like the silver birds. I hope they never change the silver color of the plane.

The new ads in Miami that feature AA destinations and appear on taxi cabs, buses, trains and billboards are great. I think they should roll out something nationally.

Big version: Width: 640 Height: 480 File size: 99kb


Now when it comes to on board service and amenities that is where AA could use a re-brand and the new jet order is an excellent opportunity to do so.
Nice new seats with PTVs
Free light snacks and cookies (a la Jetblue)
New modern cabin interiors
New uniforms
I would even change the baggage policy and allow the first bag free in all markets to ease the boarding process.

AJMIA

[Edited 2012-01-10 11:36:10]
Lady it's a jet... not a kite.
 
EricR
Posts: 1226
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:15 pm

RE: AA Bankruptcy=New Branding?

Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:38 pm

Quoting DLBOIFIN (Reply 2):
the AA livery is the most iconic on in the US market

While the old livery is iconic, a change in livery could be used to send a message. A change in livery could communicate to the public that AA is a new, revitalized carrier and signal the start of a vibrant new beginning.

Out with the old (livery, aircraft interiors, upper management, etc.) and in with a fresh new livery, updated aircraft interiors, new upper management team, and brand new slogan....."Up, Up, and AAway!!!!"  
 
Mir
Posts: 19491
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: AA Bankruptcy=New Branding?

Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:38 pm

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 5):
there is nothing uniquely American about red, white and blue.

No, but they are the US colors, and it would be a shame to have no US carrier flying them (US and DL don't have the right shades).

The trouble with the AA livery is that it looks fantastic on airplanes that are polished well, but when a plane's exterior gets scuffed, the look really goes downhill. That said, I wouldn't want them to change it.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
tcasalert
Posts: 448
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:34 am

RE: AA Bankruptcy=New Branding?

Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:40 pm

I doubt there will be any change. After all, they need to do all they can to keep their investors happy. Spending even more money they haven't got on rebranding is a complete waste of money and will surely not go down very well with the investors.

Yes UA changed their livery after Ch.11, as did US (eventually after the merger), but then those airlines were regularly changing liveries anyway even before Ch.11 so they would probably have changed anyway. AA on the other hand has a timeless livery and are definitely not known for changing their livery often, having had this one for almost 50 years.
Next flight: Feb 2012 - BHX-CPH-BHX - SK MD87 / CRJ900
 
User avatar
American 767
Posts: 4549
Joined: Wed May 19, 1999 7:27 am

RE: AA Bankruptcy=New Branding?

Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:10 pm

Quoting AJMIA (Reply 9):
Free light snacks and cookies (a la Jetblue)

Yes, that would be a good thing to do in Y Class on domestic flights longer than 3 hours. Charge only for alcohol beverages. Free cartoon books to children under 12 on flights longer than 5 hours, that would also be nice.

Quoting AJMIA (Reply 9):
New modern cabin interiors

I think their current interiors look good enough. The only thing they have to do is finish replacing the brown leather seats (1990s era) on the 757s with more modern seats.

Quoting AJMIA (Reply 9):
I would even change the baggage policy and allow the first bag free in all markets to ease the boarding process.

Good idea.

I would also remove the new Million Miler AAdvantage program. I would reinstall the old AAdvantage Milion Miler program, where all the miles earned count towards the Million Miles threshold, not just the base miles earned when flying from A to B.

I would also do this:

If a flight is delayed regardless of the reason, compensate each passenger with an extra 1000 miles per hour behind schedule. Say for example, what passengers hate the most, a plane is grounded on the tarmac for three hours, the flight will arrive at destination three hours behind schedule, I would compensate each passenger with 3000 miles more in addition to the base miles earned. And those will count towards the Million Miles threshold. This compensation would apply even to passengers traveling on a free ticket regardless of what class they are traveling in.

Extend validity of miles to 36 months from the last flight where AAdvantage miles were earned or redeemed.

Ben Soriano
Ben Soriano
 
rampart
Posts: 1800
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:58 am

RE: AA Bankruptcy=New Branding?

Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:11 pm

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 5):
They are the national colours of many countries

...like France!  Wow! and RUSSIA!!  Wow!  
Quoting commavia (Reply 4):
The excessive use of Arial Black for headings is boring and ugly.

Ran across this recently. Thought the font was proprietary, guess not.



Quoting mikey72 (Reply 3):
Maybe if they just changed the sliver for a off-white pearl..kept the rest the same..that could work.

I'd suggest gold, to go with the recent "gold standard" rhetoric for the economy. Would look stunning with the broad red/white/blue cheatline. Or maybe something like Donald Trump might own.

-Rampart
 
User avatar
DeltaMD90
Posts: 8928
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:25 pm

RE: AA Bankruptcy=New Branding?

Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:27 pm

The only thing I dislike about AA's livery is some parts of the plane can't be polished and are light gray instead... it looks very tacky in some instances IMO. Take this pic for example:

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Ameri...d=b327d3cf66e44e58f610e13cddfd30aa

Idk, I just think it looks tacky to be 98% shiny and 2% light gray. Again, I know they have to in some cases, but I think they should come up with a solution so all their planes are painted in the same areas, and it doesn't look awkward (the nose tip for example)
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 15799
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

RE: AA Bankruptcy=New Branding?

Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:35 pm

Quoting EricR (Reply 1):
I think AA is long overdue for a refreshed livery.

  

Couldn't disagree more. The AA livery is timeless and need not be changed.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
User avatar
LOWS
Posts: 1335
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2011 5:37 am

RE: AA Bankruptcy=New Branding?

Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:37 pm

YES.

The AA livery is old. Do the decent thing: take it out back and shoot it.

Quoting rampart (Reply 14):
Ran across this recently. Thought the font was proprietary, guess not.

No, I think that's just Helvetica. Found on pretty much everything. From my cigarette packet to the sack I got from the stationier today, to things everywhere all across the world.
 
DTWPurserBoy
Posts: 2374
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:33 pm

RE: AA Bankruptcy=New Branding?

Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:47 pm

Quoting AJMIA (Reply 9):
Now when it comes to on board service and amenities that is where AA could use a re-brand and the new jet order is an excellent opportunity to do so.
Nice new seats with PTVs
Free light snacks and cookies (a la Jetblue)
New modern cabin interiors
New uniforms
I would even change the baggage policy and allow the first bag free in all markets to ease the boarding process.

AJMIA

American's employees are about to see 80 years of collective bargaining thrown into the trash by the bankruptcy courts in a matter of seconds. The loss or drastic reductions in their pensions, dramatically increased flight hours for 40-50% salary cuts, and the loss of accrued vacations and sick leave is coming upon them. I know, I have been there myself. What is never discussed is the number of suicides, ruined marriages, lost homes, destroyed savings and ruined lives that this leaves in the wake of a Chapter 11 filing.

If upon emerging from bankruptcy the company turns around and does any of the above things (costing hundreds of millions of dollars) they will earn the permanent and irrepairable enmity of their employees who will view it as though they are paying for the "improvements" which will translate into rage and abysmal customer service at every level. I don't think AA wants to go in that direcetion. Any changes would have to be done gradually over a long period of time and with the approval of their own employees. Any level of trust they ever had in AA management is gone. First order of business should be a total shake up (and out) of senior management.

I think my fellow Anetters should consider the human toll rather than focusing on paint, your precious mileage or the color of the upholstery.

[Edited 2012-01-10 12:54:05]

[Edited 2012-01-10 12:55:14]
Qualified on Concorde/B707/B720/B727/B737/B747/B757/B767/B777/DC-8/DC-9/DC-10/A319/A320/A330/MD-88-90
 
rampart
Posts: 1800
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:58 am

RE: AA Bankruptcy=New Branding?

Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:47 pm

Quoting LOWS (Reply 17):
No, I think that's just Helvetica. Found on pretty much everything. From my cigarette packet to the sack I got from the stationier today, to things everywhere all across the world.

You're right. But I think the American Apparel (AA) is deliberate, in different enough industries to not matter.
 
1stfl94
Posts: 1082
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 12:33 am

RE: AA Bankruptcy=New Branding?

Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:12 pm

I think AA changing their livery would be a big mistake, its too timeless and even adjustments would probably have little effect and cost a lot to implement.

However, rebranding in other areas is desperately needed. New uniforms, cabin design (though the 77W is promising new J and Economy plus cabin) and improvements in service would be better investments.

Other airlines that have rebranded after bankruptcy have generally replaced much more recent liveries. Delta got rid of the unattractive Deltaflot while a lot its aircraft still had the 1997 cheatlines, United's Battleship didn't age well especially on dirty aircraft and Air Canada was able to introduce a much more fresh livery than its prevous eurowhite.

American, IMO should look to the example of Alitalia, bankrupt but relaunched with a classic livery (revised in 2005 but still roughly the same as when first introduced in the 1960s) and all new services.
 
jetblast
Posts: 950
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 11:19 am

RE: AA Bankruptcy=New Branding?

Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:19 pm

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 18):
I think my fellow Anetters should consider the human toll rather than focusing on paint, your precious mileage or the color of the upholstery.

Keep in mind a large portion of a.netters don't work in the industry, and probably couldn't care less about the employees. That's been a large part of my experience from this site.

The current AA brand is nice, timeless, etc....but it represents an airline that has been running into the ground for years. While the design itself is nice, I don't feel very many happy thoughts whenever I look at an AA airplane.
Speedbird Concorde One
 
freeskies
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 3:14 am

RE: AA Bankruptcy=New Branding?

Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:27 pm

American uses Helvetica for its logotype, but I find they are pretty inconsistent with branding otherwise. Helvetica's ugly step-sister, Arial can also be found within AA, mostly notably for graphics and banners on the website. If you're not sure of the difference, then take a look at this article: http://www.ironicsans.com/2009/09/quiz_so_you_think_you_can_tell.html

Last time I flew with AA, they were also using a serif typeface, Garamond in some literature. I don't know its use continues, or not.

I don't think Helvetica is the problem. There are other plenty of organisations that use Helvetica that might be considered "hip": Apple, American Apparel, to name a few. But AA's use of Helvetica has always struck me as slap-dash, when it comes to things like posters and literature. I think they ought to tighten up corporate branding guidelines and apply branding more consistently. That means things like extending the same typographic usage to its website, laying out literature according to a grid system. Steps that that would go a long way towards freshening up their image.

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 18):
I think my fellow Anetters should consider the human toll rather than focusing on paint, your precious mileage or the color of the upholstery.

You can't ignore the fact that good branding makes up a significant part of the image a company projects. Still, if employee relations are bad then there's no much good branding can do to fix the problem. I'm not an AA-fan especially, but I hope the company pulls through for their employees, and that Chapter 11 doesn't mean employees will see their pensions, wages and benefits completely decimated.

[Edited 2012-01-10 13:31:28]
 
flyorski
Posts: 733
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 8:23 am

RE: AA Bankruptcy=New Branding?

Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:31 pm

AA will need a new livery with the arrival of 787s. Thus, whether the current one is time-less or not, expect something new to emerge. My expectation is that it will look very similar to the current one, perhaps only using a silver paint (similar to NWAs final colors) rather than the current polish.
"None are more hopelessly enslaved, than those who falsly believe they are free" -Goethe
 
olddominion727
Posts: 465
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:16 pm

RE: AA Bankruptcy=New Branding?

Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:35 pm

Keep the AA with Eagle tail, but the body, absolutely, let's make it fresh. Not aganist the gray, drab backdrop. Let's do something fun and uplifting. I have seen many examples and artist's ideas online and some of them are really great
 
Independence76
Posts: 416
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:59 pm

RE: AA Bankruptcy=New Branding?

Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:48 pm

The outside is timeless and classic. The inside is old and outdated.

While I am very interested in and a critic of airline liveries, I also have specific opinions on cabins - the room I'm going to be stuck in for the next 9 hours. AA has a good online service with a satisfactory route and alliance system, but the service and look of it all on the inside needs dramatic changes if they want to get anywhere internationally.

AA has always been nervous about aggressive international strategy and I don't entirely blame them. However, if they want to be fearless in the markets they compete in, they need to raise the bar to much higher standards. This means new F/A uniforms, rearranged long-haul cabins configurations, and better advertising tactics. The current business class seats are embarrassing at best.

The taxi with an AA advertisement on it posted above is an example of a bad idea - while something that noticeable is on a Taxi, I had to squint to see it was an ad for AA. It's a waste of money when people can't see the name of your company.

With newer terminals in DFW and MIA, a newer interior and service would make expansion easy (at least domestically). VX is already proving low-cost luxuries can be successful in the US market and there's no excuse for AA to not try the same.

[Edited 2012-01-10 13:54:20]
 
User avatar
jsnww81
Posts: 2542
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 3:29 am

RE: AA Bankruptcy=New Branding?

Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:01 pm

I agree with many others that the 1968 exterior colors could stay as they are, or maybe get a slight refresh, such as a new font for "American" or maybe a slight revision of the eagle on the tail to make it sleeker and less militaristic.

What I absolutely hate - and many others have said this - are AA's advertisements and general brand image. The huge shadowed block lettering looks cheap and thrown together. The banners hanging from the vaulted ceilings of Concourse H and K at ORD have this lettering and I always think how staid and boring it seems.

Cabin interiors need work too - the winged headrest and blue seat upholstery looked good when it was introduced in 1999, but things have moved on since then. Both cabins are often filthy if you're flying on anything other than the first flight of the day (and even then, it's 50-50 if the plane got a good cleaning overnight). It's customary to pull out a first-class tray table and find it covered in coffee rings or see scuff marks and pen scribbles all over the seatback in front of you. United mounted a very aggressive "clean cabin" effort after they emerged from bankruptcy, and it's very noticeable.

And for the love of God, a new cabin crew uniform. That's one thing that's long overdue and might actually resonate positively with FAs. They added a few scarves last year to liven things up, but the core uniform is basically unchanged since the late 1980s. The horrible sweater jacket should be banned forever.
 
ripcordd
Posts: 1082
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2000 1:12 pm

RE: AA Bankruptcy=New Branding?

Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:03 pm

UA painted their planes in BK and bought lots of stuff in BK because they were given a monthly budget and it was use it or lose so they spent.
 
DTWPurserBoy
Posts: 2374
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:33 pm

RE: AA Bankruptcy=New Branding?

Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:11 pm

Quoting jetblast (Reply 21):
Keep in mind a large portion of a.netters don't work in the industry, and probably couldn't care less about the employees. That's been a large part of my experience from this site.

Good point, jetblast. But the very foundation of every airline all over the world are its people. An airline's heart and soul are the professional, iproud, irreverant and wonderful folks that work there. All of us were chosen over literally hundreds of other applicants for a very few positions and sometimes we need to remember that. Despite arguments within the "family" we generally don't take our dirty laundry out of the house.

Anyway, to get back onto the thread, I think a rebranding will be in order. Phrases like "timeless" have no meaning when so many Anetters and passengers in general have no memory of anything else at AA. Unfortunately American did not enter Chapter 11 with a prepackaged plan. That would have made for a rapid exit and could easily have included a rebranding--out with old and in with the new. Landor Associates in San Francisco has made some awesome logos, exterior colors and memorable images for many airlines around the world. I would like to see them or another company like them come out with a knock-your-sox-off plan that shows freshness, a distinct nationalism (it is always a matter of pride to AA employees that the word "American" is stenciled across the fuselage). Personally I have always liked the mid-sixties "circle" logo and was always pleased to see the retro airplane on the ramp. I have always disliked the fact that Pan Am stopped writing Pan American on the airplanes. It reduced them image wise when all it said was Pan Am on the side of a huge airplane like the 747, almost as an afterthought. But everyone knew the "blue meatball" logo that is still recognized around the world 21 years after that great carrier's demise. I hope AA will come up with something innovative, memorable and proud with a nod to its history.
Qualified on Concorde/B707/B720/B727/B737/B747/B757/B767/B777/DC-8/DC-9/DC-10/A319/A320/A330/MD-88-90
 
dsuairptman
Posts: 707
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 9:45 am

RE: AA Bankruptcy=New Branding?

Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:14 pm

I don't think considering a livery re-brand would hurt them. I would like to see something more like the orange lightning strike with full eagle they had before the current livery.

Regardless of what they do, I would want the bear metal finish to stay.
GEAUX SAINTS!
 
chimborazo
Posts: 335
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:51 pm

RE: AA Bankruptcy=New Branding?

Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:16 pm

The AA livery- although looking vaguely like the planes have barrel-rolled through a pile of Dutch, French and Russian flags- is fabulous (second only to BA!). It's instantly recognisable to most folk, particularly because of the silver- that needs to stay.

As others have said, there are far more important things to sort out than the branding. Changing corporate branding on such a sized company would cost a fortune.


Peter
 
jetblast
Posts: 950
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 11:19 am

RE: AA Bankruptcy=New Branding?

Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:21 pm

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 28):
Good point, jetblast. But the very foundation of every airline all over the world are its people. An airline's heart and soul are the professional, iproud, irreverant and wonderful folks that work there. All of us were chosen over literally hundreds of other applicants for a very few positions and sometimes we need to remember that. Despite arguments within the "family" we generally don't take our dirty laundry out of the house.

I certainly agree with you, as I'm an employee myself. The airplanes can be new, the livery can be incredible, the uniforms can be perfect - but if the staff are miserable sods from a passenger perspective, none of that will really mean a whole lot.

Hopefully this bankruptcy will allow the AA staff to rebuild their airline as something they are proud of, as opposed to a relic of past generations that relies on its history to stay afloat.
Speedbird Concorde One
 
bennett123
Posts: 10580
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

RE: AA Bankruptcy=New Branding?

Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:26 pm

IIRC, they can not have the silver with composites, is this correct?.

If so, then the B787 will be a problem.
 
olddominion727
Posts: 465
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:16 pm

RE: AA Bankruptcy=New Branding?

Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:29 pm

Quoting freeskies (Reply 22):

@freeskies, I think you're 100% correct, branding is everything. But I think they could clean up the Eagle and AA. Keep the same (general colors) but update them some. We don't need to the 1980's cheat line. Their image has not been updated for 40 years.
 
elbandgeek
Posts: 460
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2008 8:26 pm

RE: AA Bankruptcy=New Branding?

Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:29 pm


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Alevik


Just change the titles to AMERICAN   

In all seriousness though, while I would file the current scheme under "timeless", AA's reputation has been so tarnished the last few years I think it is better to retire the look in order to send a message that they are a new and better airline once they get through BK. With regard to the US look, I'm actually quite a fan, and it's definitely one of the better things to have come out of the HP merger. I'm sure if they went the hybrid route a la UA they could probably subtley [or not] incorporate the eagle in some fashion like how the wavy lines on the tail are a callback to HP.
 
ckfred
Posts: 5189
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

RE: AA Bankruptcy=New Branding?

Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:33 pm

If the 787s need to be fully painted, then AA should consider for the entire fleet the metallic silver paint that NW was transitioning to, before the DL merger. It would retain the shiny silver look and cover the composite gray areas.

I've always that AA's red was just a bit too orange, and the blue was a bit too violet. Perhaps a true red and a true navy blue would be a subtle change.

And maybe an eagle that is less stylized and a different font for the name and the capital As on the logo would freshen things a bit.

A friend of mine, who flies for AA, said to me that DL needed to freshen the livery that had been around in the 1970s and 1980s, but that the livery that came out before wavy gravy was too bland. The only good thing was that the widget was still on the tail, as opposed to the wavy gravy on the next livery.

Revising logos and liveries can be very tricky. A subtle freshening is probably better than a complete overhaul.
 
tymnbalewne
Posts: 714
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 3:06 am

RE: AA Bankruptcy=New Branding?

Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:05 am

The simplicity of the the current livery is what makes it timeless. I would think that AA would want to show constancy during the BK process in order to keep the business travelers calm. Nowadays people don't think of airline bankruptcy as "the end" or as a massive change from the passenger's point of view, so the livery is less important in that respect.
Dewmanair...begins with Dew
 
Alias1024
Posts: 2747
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:13 am

RE: AA Bankruptcy=New Branding?

Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:25 am

Quoting ckfred (Reply 35):

If the 787s need to be fully painted, then AA should consider for the entire fleet the metallic silver paint that NW was transitioning to, before the DL merger. It would retain the shiny silver look and cover the composite gray areas.

I've always that AA's red was just a bit too orange, and the blue was a bit too violet. Perhaps a true red and a true navy blue would be a subtle change.

And maybe an eagle that is less stylized and a different font for the name and the capital As on the logo would freshen things a bit.

I've thought for a while that this is what will eventually happen with AA. Keep the cheatlines, keep the silver look whether metallic paint or bare metal, and just modernize the titles and tail logo. They'd be stupid to throw away the brand recognition they have built over the decades. The silver fuselage immediately brings American Airlines to mind for the average traveler in this country, just as many Americans know 'Rhapsody in Blue' as "the United Airlines song". There are very few examples of really powerful branding in the airline industry, and they would be absolute fools to ditch the silver look.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
AAIL86
Posts: 466
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 6:00 am

RE: AA Bankruptcy=New Branding?

Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:46 am

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 18):
I think my fellow Anetters should consider the human toll rather than focusing on paint, your precious mileage or the color of the upholstery.

Totally agree with you- and from a passenger perspective it's whats inside that counts anyways. AA's exterior look is quite attractive while fairly simple to maintain.

Quoting jetblast (Reply 31):
I certainly agree with you, as I'm an employee myself. The airplanes can be new, the livery can be incredible, the uniforms can be perfect - but if the staff are miserable sods from a passenger perspective, none of that will really mean a whole lot.

Having just left AA in May, I literally know hundreds of people that are worried to death over all of these issues- and since our economy is not creating jobs (only pushing wealth to the very top), their prospects elsewhere after years with AA aren't especially bright. This issue at companies like AA is an issue that our societies are going to ask hard questions about, and given the hardline stances that certain entrenched interests have, we do not appear to have an easy solution ahead.

However- to the topic at hand: Branding the new "AA" is an interesting question, however I would argue that the current AA brand is quite strong. They only lost the largest airline designation due to DL's and UA's mergers, and have millions of loyal customers. Personally, I don't think there's an argument for repainting 600+ aircraft, especially given the venerable nature of the current scheme and the other pressing needs. IMO, they should focus on improving the inside of the aircraft and salvaging what they can with the employees. New liveries might make interesting spotting- but I care more(and I suspect I'm not the only one) about Y+ and other improvements.
" Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness ... Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime. ” - Mark Twain, 1869
 
Beardown91737
Posts: 896
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:56 pm

RE: AA Bankruptcy=New Branding?

Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:58 am

Quoting jetblast (Reply 31):
Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 28):
Good point, jetblast. But the very foundation of every airline all over the world are its people. An airline's heart and soul are the professional, iproud, irreverant and wonderful folks that work there. All of us were chosen over literally hundreds of other applicants for a very few positions and sometimes we need to remember that. Despite arguments within the "family" we generally don't take our dirty laundry out of the house.

I certainly agree with you, as I'm an employee myself. The airplanes can be new, the livery can be incredible, the uniforms can be perfect - but if the staff are miserable sods from a passenger perspective, none of that will really mean a whole lot.

Turn it around. You can be the nicest people in the world but aircraft which are dirty, have torn carpet, or have broken seat components will chase away passengers. An obvious state of disrepair in the cabin will make passengers concerned about disrepair elsewhere.
135 hrs PIC (mostly PA-28) - not current. Landings at MDW, PIA, JAN.
 
olddominion727
Posts: 465
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:16 pm

RE: AA Bankruptcy=New Branding?

Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:03 am

Quoting AAIL86 (Reply 38):

@AAIL86--I couldn't agree more. I have a long-time friend who worked for AA at 3 stations on the west coast. she saw so many QQ and TW folks get the shaft in SJC and PHX. I would love AA to soar higher than the clouds. AA is like Coke to UA's Pepsi... (Sorry DL'ers)... You like one and love to hate the other. All 3 are very powerful carriers. But nothing says AA like the Eagle and two A's on the, like nothing says UA like the Tulip. We need to keep AA workers and passengers happy and have their expectations surpassed. That's not going to happen they're charged for something new or a higher fee for something each time they travel. AA would level the industry if it had the cojones to eliminate change fees and baggage fees coming out of this BK. They'd be life a pheonix rising. So many would fly them for those reasons alone. Splash a few commercials on tv and radio again. Not just in DAL, CHI & MIA but also smaller cities. WN as massive as they are can get away with it and still be the only airline ever to make money since it opened it's doors. I hope AA can find it's path again. Get their cost structure back in place and move on. Cheat lines, eagles and fonts are nice, but quality air travel and happy employees is where it's at. My hat's off to them and I wish them all well. It's not an easy industry!
 
User avatar
totesen
Posts: 82
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 3:50 am

RE: AA Bankruptcy=New Branding?

Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:05 am

Quoting rampart (Reply 14):
Ran across this recently. Thought the font was proprietary, guess not.

American Airlines uses the Helvetica font, it is the most famous font and most used on the planet. Arial ( a microsoft copycat in order not to pay copyrigh) is based on the timeless 1950´s swiss typography helvetica.

Not only American Airlines uses this beautiful Sans-Serif Typography, but also Lufhtansa does it.

This is from Wiki: "Helvetica is a popular choice for commercial wordmarks, including those for 3M, American Airlines, American Apparel, BMW, Jeep, JCPenney, Kawasaki, Lufthansa, Microsoft, Mitsubishi Electric, Motorola, Panasonic, Philippine Airlines, Target, and Verizon Wireless.[16] Apple Inc. has used Helvetica widely in iOS (previously iPhone OS), and the iPod. The iPhone 4 uses Neue Helvetica.[17]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helvetica

Quoting Northwest727 (Thread starter):
Many people argue on here that AA's current livery and logo, dating from the late 1960s, is a timeless design. Do you think it will change when this is all said and done with, and if so, what do you think we will see out of the "new AA" once it emerges from bankruptcy?

Their identity is one of the most beautiful airplane brands ever created, but they doo need to refurbish it, i am not talking about the livery, the same design can be applied in a more elegant and beautifful manner, take for example, monitor display, websites, uniforms, comming from such a versatile typography, and colors (mainly monochromatic) you can do a lot to improve the company overal feeling without messing arround with that beautiful livery and replacing it for some "modern" and tasteless eurowhite.
Follow me on Twitter: www.twitter.com/totesen
 
Sean-SAN-
Posts: 815
Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2002 4:02 pm

RE: AA Bankruptcy=New Branding?

Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:10 am

AA will be getting a full and modern re-branding... I personally know someone who is working on it.
 
etops1
Posts: 854
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2005 12:26 pm

RE: AA Bankruptcy=New Branding?

Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:15 am

AA's brand is iconic and it should not be touched.
 
boeing773er
Posts: 529
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:23 pm

RE: AA Bankruptcy=New Branding?

Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:27 am

Why fix something that isn't broken?

There is nothing wrong with the AA font to me, I feel like it just suits them very well.

I couldn't imagine having American without there shinny bare metal planes........
Work Hard, Fly Right.
 
777ord
Posts: 681
Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 12:04 pm

RE: AA Bankruptcy=New Branding?

Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:15 am

AA should worry about updating their aircraft interiors and some of their terminals, ORD to name one, before spending who knows how much on a very well designed exterior. Look at parts of DFW and JFK. Really nice in comparison.

Additionally, an update to crew uniforms would be nice. That black and white checkered blazer thing the "premium" service employees wear. Yikes.
 
beertrucker
Posts: 217
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2005 12:13 pm

RE: AA Bankruptcy=New Branding?

Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:27 am

I not saying a full change is needed but an update would be refreshing. Also remember you not getting this polish look on the 787. So something has to change a little. If you did the northwest silver you can paint everything. Just a thought.
Fly HI
 
JFKPurser
Posts: 298
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:03 am

RE: AA Bankruptcy=New Branding?

Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:06 am

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 18):
The loss or drastic reductions in their pensions, dramatically increased flight hours for 40-50% salary cuts, and the loss of accrued vacations and sick leave is coming upon them.

While I am almost sure you are correct about the pensions, I do not foresee a 40-50% cut in hourly pay, especially when UAL FAs are about to vote on a TA that puts them on par with their CO peers and will be ahead of Delta and also where AA's FA pay rates are now. There will be a slight increase in monthly bid projections, for sure. But AA's FA costs (pension funding aside) are more or less in line with UA/CO and DL at this point. AA will see the majority of their costs reduced in BK by the rejection of pensions, leases, and certain debts.

Quoting jetblast (Reply 21):
Keep in mind a large portion of a.netters don't work in the industry, and probably couldn't care less about the employees. That's been a large part of my experience from this site.

Yes -- no kidding. It amuses me to read so many observations here that are not based in reality, and it is shameful how little respect so many A.netters show toward the people who have dedicated they lives to a career in commercial aviation.

[Edited 2012-01-10 20:12:04]
 
ghifty
Posts: 906
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 9:12 pm

RE: AA Bankruptcy=New Branding?

Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:15 am

Has the AA livery seriously become an icon? If it indeed has, shouldn't the airline itself be remembered, and not the livery?

Quoting AJMIA (Reply 9):
The new ads in Miami that feature AA destinations and appear on taxi cabs, buses, trains and billboards are great. I think they should roll out something nationally.

The new ads are plain. It's just Helvetica text.. with a reflection which looks lame.. and a picture.
Fly Delta (Wid)Jets

Comments made here reflect only my personal opinions.
 
N243NW
Posts: 1599
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2003 4:29 am

RE: AA Bankruptcy=New Branding?

Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:22 am

I think most of AA's brand and image should remain the same - it would be a sin to get rid of much of what's become an icon. More focus should be put on publications, uniforms and other small details besides the aircraft.

With that said, however, I do think that something definitely needs to be done to the polished metal finish before the 787s (and preferably the A320s) arrive. With more and more composites over the years, it tends to make many of the aircraft look like patchwork quilts, even when they're clean. I hope the ugly composite "forehead" that the A300 had can be prevented on the new Airbus fleet by painting the whole plane silver.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Hector A Rivera-SJU Aviation Photography

B-52s don't take off. They scare the ground away.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos