Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
aviopic
Posts: 2423
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 7:52 pm

RE: 787 Achieves 96.3% Dispatch Reliability

Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:19 pm

Quoting delimit (Reply 2):
Exactly how is dispatch reliability calculated? Leaving gate within 15 min of schedule if an mx item is encountered?

It works like this

It is done pretty much the same everywhere and certainly within one brand for the reason of comparing.
Doing things your own way other than as prescribe by the manufacturer just renders all data useless.
 
User avatar
BoeingVista
Topic Author
Posts: 2072
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:54 am

RE: 787 Achieves 96.3% Dispatch Reliability

Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:51 pm

Quoting PM (Reply 37):
Bit sloppy there, Jon. It is actually four flights a day (HND-OKA-HND and HND-HIJ-HND).

ANA also seem to be cutting the 787 some slack on turnaround, turnaround times between these flights seems to be about 90 minutes, 45 would be more typical of "cityflier" type operations at least for QF.

Quoting aviopic (Reply 50):
It works like this ***from the link***
NOTE 1: Cancellation supersedes a delay (i.e., a flight which is cancelled after having been
delayed, is considered to be a cancellation only – not a delay and a cancellation).

NOTE 2: Cancellation of any or all of the flight legs of a multi-leg trip constitutes only one
cancellation.

Which means that flight cancellations would not be included in dispatch reliability figures and we know of at least one cancellation episode due to an unsafe gear indication on approach and subsequent gravity gear drop.

Have there been any other instances of an ANA 787 going tech leading to a flight cancellation?
 
ebj1248650
Posts: 1517
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 6:17 am

RE: 787 Achieves 96.3% Dispatch Reliability

Sun Jan 15, 2012 2:35 pm

Quoting sofianec (Reply 6):
For a completely new type and with 2 frames I would say 96.3% is outstanding. I too wish ANA all the best as I hope to try the 787 on their FRA-TYO run in 2 months. Seating density is outstanding.

I couldn't agree more. For a brand new airplane just introduced into service, that figure is wonderful. As they gain more experience with the airplane, it's surely going to go up.
 
User avatar
notaxonrotax
Posts: 1315
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:29 pm

RE: 787 Achieves 96.3% Dispatch Reliability

Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:26 pm

Very decent figure, I'd say!

If I go to the airport a 100 times only to find that less than 4 flights out of a 100 are delayed--> not bad!
I don't think Notaxonrotax enjoyed this dispatch reliability; through out my life as a traveller!!

No Tax On Rotax
 
tdscanuck
Posts: 8573
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:25 am

RE: 787 Achieves 96.3% Dispatch Reliability

Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:17 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 41):
Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 33):
That's not the same thing, at all, as dispatch reliability.

If it is on-time, I would say that is a great number.

Agreed.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 41):
So I'd be intersted to know which metric we're really comparing.

It's unclear...at least one media outlet has explicitely said "dispatch reliability" and at least one has said "on-time performance."

Quoting AirlineCritic (Reply 44):
I think the report said "dispatch reliability", so it could be that the confusion is only in a.net.

One report said that, another report said "on-time performance."

Quoting zeke (Reply 48):
In the context of the article, they are talking specifically about aircraft reliability

Depends which article you're talking about.

Tom.
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 16358
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

RE: 787 Achieves 96.3% Dispatch Reliability

Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:45 pm

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 54):

Depends which article you're talking about.

The one in the opening post : "787 achieves 96.3% dispatch reliability", however when one also looks at Randys blog, they are referring to aircraft reliability as well. "We’re also proud to report the Dreamliner’s reliability has been impressive, with an on-time departure rate of 96.3 percent. "
 
roseflyer
Posts: 9602
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:34 am

RE: 787 Achieves 96.3% Dispatch Reliability

Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:09 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 55):

The one in the opening post : "787 achieves 96.3% dispatch reliability", however when one also looks at Randys blog, they are referring to aircraft reliability as well. "We’re also proud to report the Dreamliner’s reliability has been impressive, with an on-time departure rate of 96.3 percent. "

I think it is better to trust that the 96.3% dispatch reliability realistically means 96.3% on time departure performance. When it states that the fleet wide rate is 96.5%, I'd further believe that they are talking about on time departure performance and not specific aircraft mechanical reliability. The Japanese Airlines maintain the highest aircraft dispatch reliability in the world and the numbers I have seen are typically above 99%. 96.5% is closer to what the US airlines maintain as actual dispatch reliability, which is always far worse than the numbers seen in Japan.

I'd assume that the actual aircraft dispatch reliability is higher than 96.3% when scrubbed for the delay codes that relate to Weather, Airport Operations, Airplane Servicing, etc.

I think that the only comparison valid is that the 787 is 0.2% off the fleetwide average. It's performing average. That shows that the airplane is having some entry into service problems since having fleetwide average on time performance while flying far fewer hours per frame indicates that the airplanes aren't as reliable as the fleet. When comparing airlines, industry convention is to plot daily block time and dispatch reliability because the more flight hours a plane flies, the higher percentage of flights that get delayed since there is less maintenance time on the fleet.

[Edited 2012-01-15 11:12:44]
 
aviopic
Posts: 2423
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 7:52 pm

RE: 787 Achieves 96.3% Dispatch Reliability

Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:27 pm

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 51):
Which means that flight cancellations would not be included in dispatch reliability figures and we know of at least one cancellation episode due to an unsafe gear indication on approach and subsequent gravity gear drop.

No that's a misinterpretation.
As shown in the TDR calculation a cancellation is included.
 
User avatar
autothrust
Posts: 1468
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 8:54 pm

RE: 787 Achieves 96.3% Dispatch Reliability

Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:46 am

Quoting cloudyapple (Reply 42):
The A346 achieved 98.5% and it was described at the time as "a dog" on this forum. Are you sure 96.3% is really good?

That't the point, didn't you know that all Airbusses are dog's? It doesn't matter what they achieve.

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 47):
I would say that given the amount of new technologies 787 has, the published dispatch reliability is excellent. Please keep in mind that any new type in the fleet will hit its share of snags and teething problems.

Please there is no need to defend the 787. The dispatch reliability is good however the 787 was/is not the only plane with a huge amount of new technologies. So that's not a excuse for the not stellar dispatch reliability.

The A380 is much much more complex then the 787, and still the dispatch reliability has to be improved but is on an amazing level already.

however they are both new planes with a incredible amount of new technology and i'm sure they will achieve after some time the same reliability performance as other planes.
 
A388
Posts: 8088
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

RE: 787 Achieves 96.3% Dispatch Reliability

Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:40 pm

Quoting sofianec (Reply 1):
Not bad at all. In time and with more frames entering the fleet dispatch reliability numbers will go up. Sample of 2 frames is very low therefore 96.3% is quite good.
Quoting sofianec (Reply 6):
For a completely new type and with 2 frames I would say 96.3% is outstanding.

The number isn't bad indeed but let's not forget that we are talking about a few frames here flying just a few months. That is not representative of dispatch reliability. Let's give it more time and let the aircraft fly with more airlines and when it flies on routes it is supposed to be flying on, long haul. Only then we will see how the reliability truly is. The only thing I know is that I definately want to fly on the 787 one day (and I still haven't flown the A380 either!!!).

A388
 
Tristarsteve
Posts: 3700
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:04 pm

RE: 787 Achieves 96.3% Dispatch Reliability

Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:38 pm

Quoting aviopic (Reply 50):
It is done pretty much the same everywhere

But can be interpreted many ways.

The aircraft is struck by lightning, and the ensuing inspection delays the flight. Technical? Not in my airline, it was DF damaged in Flight.
The tyre is damaged driving over FOD on the taxy in. The wheel replacement delays the flight. Tech? No its DG, damage on the ground.
The loaders drive into the engine nosecowl and the flight is Cancelled awaiting a spare. Tech? No its DG and the loaders get the blame.
The aircraft has the APU inop. The doors are closed on time, but using an airstart to start the engines delays the departure. Technical? YES. We code these delays as TD-Apu. The reason was to get maintenance to fix APUs to lose the delays. About 30pc of Tech delays are now APU caused!
The pilots call for maintenance, He arrives at the aircraft and finds no fault and the aircraft is delayed. Tech? No its FR, flight crew.

But we do count delays from the first minute.
 
Carpethead
Posts: 2620
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:15 pm

RE: 787 Achieves 96.3% Dispatch Reliability

Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:26 am

Quoting A388 (Reply 59):
Let's give it more time and let the aircraft fly with more airlines and when it flies on routes it is supposed to be flying on, long haul.

That maybe the case for most other airlines, but for NH, it has been its intention from day 1 to run the 787 on everything from domestic short-haul to long-haul. It better dispatch reliably regardless of its use or NH will find an alternative aircraft for its missions. Somehow I don't think Boeing will let down, albeit a little late in delivery.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos