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Current Prevalence Of Gay Pilots At Airlines?

Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:02 am

The Human Rights Campaign conducts an annual review of a business's workplace policies toward LGBT employees. The following results are for US-based major airlines:

100 points: AA, UA/CO
90 points: AS, B6, DL, WN, VX
85 points: US

From these scores it appears these companies embrace diversity and that LGBT employees are more comfortable working for higher-scoring companies than those that scored lower.

How about in the cockpit? It seems pilots and their workspace are the bastion of masculinity. I'm sure female pilots have had to work three times as hard to prove themselves. How about gay pilots? How prevalent are they? Are they welcome in the cockpit? How about for pilots of airlines based outside the US?
 
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skygirl1990
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Current Prevalence Of Gay Pilots At Airlines?

Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:09 am

Am actually pleasantly surprised at these results.

I'm not in an airline (yet). Still studying in fact but I still feel I am adequately qualified to put my hand up here   I don't try and hide it or anything, and plan on doing the same in the future. I'm proud of who I am, and I am not going to hide it   As for being welcome in the cockpit... well give me a few years and I'll let you know


P.S. I have been waiting for a thread like this for ages hehe
 
HorizonGirl
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Current Prevalence Of Gay Pilots At Airlines?

Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:24 am

Quoting skygirl1990 (Reply 1):

Well, a fabulous girl like you should never have to hide! 

Yes, these numbers are great to see. Proud to see AS up there.


Devon
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nethkt
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RE: Current Prevalence Of Gay Pilots At Airlines?

Thu Jan 19, 2012 7:08 am

I want to hear it from outside the USA as well.
I believe Scandinavian Airlines is one airlines that get LGBT community involved with everything they do.

Not sure about Asian, Arabian and African carriers though.
Seem to be more of "Don't ask, don't tell, ever asked, never tell" lol

Cheers,
NET-hkt
Let's just blame it on yields.
 
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Acey559
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RE: Current Prevalence Of Gay Pilots At Airlines?

Thu Jan 19, 2012 7:17 am

I haven't come across any gay pilots, that I'm aware of, at Eagle but I'm sure they're out there. Also haven't flown with any females yet but I've had a couple as crew members when I've deadheaded.
In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie.
 
Mir
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RE: Current Prevalence Of Gay Pilots At Airlines?

Thu Jan 19, 2012 7:42 am

Quoting questions (Thread starter):
How about in the cockpit? It seems pilots and their workspace are the bastion of masculinity. I'm sure female pilots have had to work three times as hard to prove themselves. How about gay pilots? How prevalent are they? Are they welcome in the cockpit? How about for pilots of airlines based outside the US?

Depends on the person they're flying with. I'm sure there are some idiots out there who don't like flying with women or with homosexuals (simply because those sort of people are out there in the general population, though I do think that they are somewhat overrepresented in the aviation community), but their numbers are getting smaller all the time. There was a time when women had to work a lot harder to prove themselves (as was the case in any male-dominant field), but that time is pretty much over.

Myself, I don't care what sort of person I fly with, so long as they do their job well. If they're professional about the way they fly and manage the other responsibilities that come with the job, I'm happy.

Pilots have to put up with a lot of crap from a lot of people on a regular basis, and I don't think we need to be adding crap from other pilots to the mix unless there's a safety issue involved. Someone's gender or sexual orientation is not a safety issue.

-Mir
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Qatara340
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RE: Current Prevalence Of Gay Pilots At Airlines?

Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:16 am

I dont think its really an issue. Its not as if the pilot is going to come to cockpit (no pun intended) and wear a scarlet letter on his/her (no pun again ) jacket! This shouldnt be an issue at all! People need to straighten this issue out (again no pun intended)...

Cheers.

:D
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AA737-823
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RE: Current Prevalence Of Gay Pilots At Airlines?

Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:54 am

I think rating systems like this are somewhat pointless, and don't really tell the true story.
Okay, so someone thinks that UACO earns a 100% in this area; does that mean that a gay person will never face any problem while working for them? NO, it doesn't.
The opposite is true.
I really don't see how sexual orientation has anything (at least, SHOULD have anything) to do with cockpit conduct. There are disgusting people on BOTH SIDES of the sexual orientation equation; there are straight pilots that I've been grossed out by, and gay flight attendants that I've been grossed out by.
 
B777LRF
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RE: Current Prevalence Of Gay Pilots At Airlines?

Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:44 pm

Sexual preferences have no place on the flight deck of a modern airliner, when operating for a modern airline. It's all about your abilities as a pilot and human qualities; which team you happen to bat for in private is about as important as whether you prefer Pepsi or Coke.

Things are obviously very different in most of Africa, all of the Middle East (except Israel) and large parts of South America and SE Asia; backward places where being gay can even be a criminal offence.
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saab2000
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RE: Current Prevalence Of Gay Pilots At Airlines?

Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:07 pm

99% of all pilots only care if the other one is competent and capable of doing their job. The rest doesn't matter. Same with flight attendants. It's no secret that the airlines are pretty open with that stuff but at the end of the day the only thing that matters is if the pilot or F/A is competent and professional.
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GT4EZY
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RE: Current Prevalence Of Gay Pilots At Airlines?

Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:17 pm

These days I don't think many really care and I know a few gay pilots at my base. There are some homophobic pilots out there no doubt but I reckon they will probably have to keep a lid on it as they are outnumbered plus there is usually quite a considerable amount of gay cabin crew. It wouldn't make his life easy and certainly at my airline, many cabin crew certainly wouldn't be afraid to address it if there were any issues with a Captain, F/O or otherwise.

I've also come across one or two new pilots who have been, for want of a better word, sheepish when it came to gay cabin crew but gradually they get to know them and they settle in.

Homophobia is still out there but thankfully the world has come quite a long way and for the vast majority I don't think it really matters.
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26point2
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RE: Current Prevalence Of Gay Pilots At Airlines?

Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:39 pm

Quoting GT4EZY (Reply 10):
Homophobia is still out there

Yes, who can forget the "Gays, Grannies and Grandes" Southwest pilot with the open mike last year?

A good resource is the National Gay Pilots Association. They seem to have a healthy number of members.
 
Fly764
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RE: Current Prevalence Of Gay Pilots At Airlines?

Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:52 pm

I work for a smaller regional with about 700 pilots, and I'm gay and have never had a big issue with it. I try to keep things professional and don't go preaching my sexual preference in the cockpit. If someone were to ask me though I would gladly say. I have flown with a few Captains many times and have become close friends with them outside of work so they know. I think now a days though most people don't care either way. If you work in aviation you are going to experience all types of diversity. There are always a select few though. I have only had one issue once where a captain of mine made some gay joke and used the three letter "f" word. In a nutshell I will just say I educated him, put him in his place, and we are now friends today.
 
BommerJan
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RE: Current Prevalence Of Gay Pilots At Airlines?

Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:07 pm

5 to 10% of people are gay. In any culture, any nation. How likely is it for them to become pilots? More likely than in the "average" population, as it suits their lifestyle/family situation better than the average heterosexual man. So assume 1 out of 10 pilots to be gay.

Most of the gay men I know look/appear more masculine than average. And some of them are pilots for LH/LX/OS, AF/KLM, BA/IB, TK.
 
thrufru
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RE: Current Prevalence Of Gay Pilots At Airlines?

Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:43 pm

Quoting Acey559 (Reply 4):
I haven't come across any gay pilots, that I'm aware of, at Eagle but I'm sure they're out there. Also haven't flown with any females yet but I've had a couple as crew members when I've deadheaded.

Having flown at Eagle, I can assure you, there are more than a few. I don't however, see a higher percentage than in the general populace. At the airline I fly for now the out pilots number about 8% of the workforce.

I've tended to be a bit conservative in my personal behavior and what I reveal to coworkers on the flight deck, too. Well, at least until I've built up a reputation as a competent pilot and generally all around nice guy. In my experiences over the past 10 years of flying, once someone respects your skills and what you bring to the job, they're either much more likely to respect who you are as a person outside of the flight deck, not care at all, or just ignore it. We've also seen a tremendous influx of younger people coming into the profession, and I believe this has helped to change attitudes a bit, too.

It would be wonderful if we truly lived and worked in an environment where nobody cares, but unfortunately we don't. Additionally, for those who claim that one's sexuality doesn't belong in the workplace, I think it's important to point something out. In the normal course of conversation, people often ask if you're married (I am), if you have kids (we don't, though we'd like to), why not (too difficult with me on the road and having to go down to one income), what you're "wife" does (ballet dancer, notice the lack of a pronoun on my part), etc. I'm very lucky to be out and proud and work in a place where most people don't seem to care. I bring my husband to company functions and have introduced him as such to everyone, including the CEO. He was greeted just as any other spouse (actually better).

Do I wish that life was all gumdrops and lollipops? Sure, I think we all do. Let's face reality, though. It isn't. I've definitely encountered more than a few old bigots and jerks that still think a woman or a gay man should only be found on the other side of the flight deck door. I guess the good thing about that is that they a becoming a rarer and rarer breed.

Oh, just one last thing. The irony about the whole thing is that at my company those of us that are out, Captains and First Officers alike, are considered to be among the most highly respected, well liked and professional pilots in the company.
 
crjavionics
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RE: Current Prevalence Of Gay Pilots At Airlines?

Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:49 pm

Not to throw the topic off in a completly different direction, but when I was in A & P school there was a openly gay man a few classes ahead of me who was getting his license with the full intention of working as a mechanic for an airline. Now thats a department that it would interesting to see some stats from.
 
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longhauler
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RE: Current Prevalence Of Gay Pilots At Airlines?

Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:03 pm

It has been great to watch the evolution.

I remember being hired about 25 years ago by an airline that stated publicly that "They would fly scheduled flights to hell, before a woman ever sat in the cockpit of one of our aircraft" to today, where even gay or lesbian pilots really are a non-issue. When I mention "my partner" to younger F/Os and R/Ps they don't care any more than I do when they mention their wives. I can't even fathom that 25 years ago.

Quoting GT4EZY (Reply 10):
Homophobia is still out there but thankfully the world has come quite a long way and for the vast majority I don't think it really matters.

Yes, I encounter it from time to time. But then, I can bench press over 250, and when I clearly state I will not stand for it, it usually shuts them up. As I equally state I will not stand for racism, gender bias and lately age bias, as a lot of our new R/Ps are around 25 years old!

Quoting crjavionics (Reply 15):
A & P school there was a openly gay man a few classes ahead of me who was getting his license with the full intention of working as a mechanic for an airline

One of my closest friends is one of our AMEs and he is openly gay.

AC, and one of its predecessors CP were among the first airlines to allow same sex benefits, and too include sexual preference in its code of conduct for employee rights.
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planejamie
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RE: Current Prevalence Of Gay Pilots At Airlines?

Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:19 pm

This whole "Stats" thing annoys me because wherever you go you'll still get homophobic people (in my experience) and, thank god, those odds are decreasing...

As a gay person planning to work as a pilot in the future, I feel like I will have no problems as I don't "preach" my sexuality (I'm sorry, but that makes me cringe, and I don't know of anyone that does that to be honest, so stop using the term). I'm not overly camp and to be honest, some people can't tell I'm gay.

As long as you do the job properly and you're good at it, why should there be a problem. All companies cannot discriminate against gay people, in the same way they can't discriminate against people from another race or religion (in the UK this is). Likewise if someone was openly homophobic and directly targeting abuse towards me I'm sure that they would have a "talking to" by whoever is in charge of them. It's not the 50/60s anymore, most people aren't all that bothered.
 
pilotpip
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RE: Current Prevalence Of Gay Pilots At Airlines?

Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:40 pm

Some of the captains I enjoy flying with most are gay. I don't like flying with them because they're gay, I like flying with them because they are good pilots and have a good personality and leadership style. Just like the straight captains I enjoy flying with. I really don't care what your sexual preference is, and I think most of my coworkers feel the same. The sooner we stop judging based on labels the sooner the bads associated with those labels go away.

I think the airline industry in general is a little more open to different lifestyles than the rest of the world. Perhaps it's because we deal with everyone on a regular basis. If you're from a little midwest town without much diversity like a lot of my coworkers it forces you to open up to different ideas and ways very quickly.
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fsnuffer
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RE: Current Prevalence Of Gay Pilots At Airlines?

Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:26 pm

As a passenger, it is not important to me how many gay pilots are in the cockpit. All I care about is how many pilots are in the cockpit. Same goes for cabin crew, baggage handlers, and gate agents.
 
GT4EZY
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RE: Current Prevalence Of Gay Pilots At Airlines?

Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:30 pm

Quoting planejamie (Reply 17):
As a gay person planning to work as a pilot in the future, I feel like I will have no problems as I don't "preach" my sexuality (I'm sorry, but that makes me cringe, and I don't know of anyone that does that to be honest, so stop using the term). I'm not overly camp and to be honest, some people can't tell I'm gay.

I really don't want to get on my soap box here but that irritates me too. Generally speaking no one 'preaches' their sexuality more than your average "hot blooded" heterosexual male. Bt the same token the "I don't mind just don't shove it in my face" line also irritates me aswell.
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Motorhussy
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RE: Current Prevalence Of Gay Pilots At Airlines?

Thu Jan 19, 2012 7:46 pm

Have a friend who flies in the left hand seat for NZ, who happens to be gay, and has commented in passing that this nation's carrier is very much an equal opportunity employer - which I find reassuring. Slightly off topic, on domestic and trans-Tasman flights (which I take most often), it's often a female voice on the PA from the cockpit (a few could could be gay at that, hadn't given it any thought).

Regards
MH

[Edited 2012-01-19 12:38:15]
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blueflyer
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RE: Current Prevalence Of Gay Pilots At Airlines?

Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:24 pm

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 7):
I think rating systems like this are somewhat pointless, and don't really tell the true story.

Maybe I'm over-optimist, but I long for a world not-too-far-away (ok for civilized countries at least) where such statistics are greeted with the same collective yawn that a ranking of preferred airlines for men with blond hair would.

Male, female, gay, straight, something else... Fly us from A to B safely and I'll be happy.

Quoting longhauler (Reply 16):
They would fly scheduled flights to hell, before a woman ever sat in the cockpit of one of our aircraft

So do they? 'Cause I can think of a few people I'd gladly buy one-way tickets for.
  

Quoting fsnuffer (Reply 19):
All I care about is how many pilots are in the cockpit. Same goes for cabin crew, baggage handlers, and gate agents.

That is one very crowded cockpit.
     
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jayspilot
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RE: Current Prevalence Of Gay Pilots At Airlines?

Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:28 pm

having flown with several gay crew members as captain and f/o over the past dozen years I feel its a non-event in among professional pilots. I hate when someone is not up to par on procedures or is not the best a flying the jet but I could care less what their preference is for who to share a bed with or any activity they do outside the cockpit.

Even when a procedure requires somone to shadow your hands on the thrust levers it never crosses my mind....
 
Viscount724
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RE: Current Prevalence Of Gay Pilots At Airlines?

Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:36 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 16):
I remember being hired about 25 years ago by an airline that stated publicly that "They would fly scheduled flights to hell, before a woman ever sat in the cockpit of one of our aircraft" to today, where even gay or lesbian pilots really are a non-issue.

I recall when Wardair had an issue with their male flight attendants over whether they would be permitted to wear earrings. I think Max Ward was strongly opposed. Forgot what came of that.
 
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longhauler
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RE: Current Prevalence Of Gay Pilots At Airlines?

Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:45 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 24):
I recall when Wardair had an issue with their male flight attendants over whether they would be permitted to wear earrings. I think Max Ward was strongly opposed. Forgot what came of that.

You know, I liked Mr. Ward, he was a cool guy to work for. He ran his airline front row centre. I can't tell you how many times I would arrive at the aircraft to see him checking it had been groomed properly and that the meals were what he ordered!

But ... rest assured, his redneck ways popped up every now and then. It was rumoured that back in the B707 days, he used to say the cockpit door was the divider. Men working in front of the door, and women working behind the door. As we all know that rule was broken on both sides. He did eventually hire a female pilot, and had numerous male F/As.

As far as the earrings go, I honestly don't remember. But I do note in Air Canada's pilot Flight Operations Manual, it does state that (discreet) earrings may be worn .. but only by female pilots!
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fn1001
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RE: Current Prevalence Of Gay Pilots At Airlines?

Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:46 pm

Who really cares about the sexual habbits of a pilot except his/her partner? Does this have an influence on how he/she is doing his/her job?
Mai bine să-ţi fie rău decît să-ţi pară rău.
 
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longhauler
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RE: Current Prevalence Of Gay Pilots At Airlines?

Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:49 pm

Quoting FN1001 (Reply 26):
Does this have an influence on how he/she is doing his/her job?

Of course not. Not today.

But there was a time when it was an issue.

It's a new world!
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Viscount724
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RE: Current Prevalence Of Gay Pilots At Airlines?

Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:01 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 25):
But ... rest assured, his redneck ways popped up every now and then. It was rumoured that back in the B707 days, he used to say the cockpit door was the divider. Men working in front of the door, and women working behind the door. As we all know that rule was broken on both sides. He did eventually hire a female pilot, and had numerous male F/As.

That reminds me of this Wardair photo, probably soon after they put their first 747 in service in 1973. If it was taken today, the male/female ratio would probably be slightly different (and they'd probably have fewer than 18 cabin crew on a 747).

 
pliersinsight
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RE: Current Prevalence Of Gay Pilots At Airlines?

Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:15 pm

I'll say this much, and I don't mean it the way it will sound, but the gay male cabin crews provide better service than any straight team. I was on a recent flight where the outbound was 100% staffed by gay males who were getting drinks, checking on folks, handing stuff out nearly the entire flight. They would take a knee next to elderly passengers so they could communicate without shouting, had aprons and uniforms with their names embroidered it them, and were impeccably dressed. They worked the aircraft as a team, with the guy in first checking on the guys in coach regularly to lend a hand.

The return leg was all female, I'm not as good as figuring out the lesbians so who knows, but they did one round of drinks, didn't offer any thing else, and hid in the aft galley talking the other 4 hours. None of them displayed any class or did anything above and beyond. No smiles, no sugar, just the motions.

I'm a straight male, and if I had to choose a cabin crew, I'm taking the gay guys. They wouldn't make you feel silly for asking for the whole can of diet coke, because they just gave it to you in the first place. To the industry folks who face macho bigots, give them this one: If you are a straight guy and aren't cool with the fact other guys are gay, you're a moron. Gay guys have been helping our chances of getting girls for years by cutting down the competition. You can't honesty say, as a straight man, that you would object to every other man in the world turning gay....you'd be so in demand with the girls, you'd need to hire a million secretaries to take all the calls....
 
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longhauler
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RE: Current Prevalence Of Gay Pilots At Airlines?

Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:22 pm

Quoting pliersinsight (Reply 29):
Gay guys have been helping our chances of getting girls for years by cutting down the competition.

Shoot, that made me spit out my coffee I was laughing so hard!

But it reminds me of what an F/O said to me recently. He said "I love going to bars with you on layovers, I KNOW you and I are not looking at the same people!".
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
pliersinsight
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RE: Current Prevalence Of Gay Pilots At Airlines?

Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:27 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 30):
Shoot, that made me spit out my coffee I was laughing so hard!

Sorry. The truth can be funny sometimes.
 
Geezer
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RE: Current Prevalence Of Gay Pilots At Airlines?

Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:24 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 28):

I have just 2 questions.................

!. Is Wardair still in business ?

2. if so, have they changed the F/As caps yet ?


Great thread BTW
Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
 
Maverick623
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RE: Current Prevalence Of Gay Pilots At Airlines?

Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:33 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 16):
"They would fly scheduled flights to hell, before a woman ever sat in the cockpit of one of our aircraft"

They must have started service to PHX  


Really, though, if there's ever a place where being gay is like having blonde hair, it's the airlines. Very few people care, and the vocal homophobes don't last long. It goes like that for every type: men, women, gay, straight, hardcore Christian, etc...
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
bennett123
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RE: Current Prevalence Of Gay Pilots At Airlines?

Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:51 pm

I find this whole thread very puzzling.

Personally, I am straight, no partner or kids.

I have little idea of the orientation of most people that I have worked with.

Some people talk about their families, some give you snippets which lead to some conclusions, some say little about their families.

The second or third group may be straight, gay or whatever. I tend to take the view that if you want to talk, then I am happy to listen. If you prefer to keep your private life private, then I am fine with that as well.
 
gen2stew
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RE: Current Prevalence Of Gay Pilots At Airlines?

Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:59 pm

The Human Rights Campaign conducts an annual review of a business's workplace policies toward LGBT employees. The following results are for US-based major airlines:

100 points: AA, UA/CO
90 points: AS, B6, DL, WN, VX
85 points: US

Funny, recently there was a thread that AA was the most hated... Reminds me of the WHEAL club; no matter how good the crew or service people still LOVED to pick on EAL. Seems that AA has is recieving the "honor".
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pnwtraveler
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RE: Current Prevalence Of Gay Pilots At Airlines?

Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:05 am

I don't care if pilots are gay or straight, woman or man, muslim, catholic, or mormon, or HIV postive or negative, what blood type they are etc. I do know some pilots are racist, bigots, bad financial managers, cruel to their spouces, not great parents and all other negatives that are present in the population as a whole. I too hope they leave it on the ground when they fly and the professional skills take over. A good flight team has to be comfortable with each other, and work well together. I hope all are professional enough to leave their soapboxes behind and bad parts of their personality on the ground and are entirely professional.
 
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IrishAyes
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RE: Current Prevalence Of Gay Pilots At Airlines?

Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:39 am

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 7):
I think rating systems like this are somewhat pointless, and don't really tell the true story.

I tend to agree, but I think for the time being they are constructive barometers that society needs. In time, they'll probably become obsolete once its no longer such a big deal anymore whether someone is gay, straight, bi, transgender, black, orange, purple, etc.

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 8):
Things are obviously very different in most of Africa, all of the Middle East (except Israel) and large parts of South America and SE Asia; backward places where being gay can even be a criminal offence.

Uhhh...I wouldn't be so sure about Latin America. Maybe in the northern countries, but I lived abroad in Chile and have traveled all throughout the Southern Cone. The big cities in Brasil and Argentina, in particular, seem to be way more gay-friendly and progressive than even in the States or Europe, so I'd assume it wouldn't be an issue in the airline industry?

Quoting pliersinsight (Reply 29):
If you are a straight guy and aren't cool with the fact other guys are gay, you're a moron. Gay guys have been helping our chances of getting girls for years by cutting down the competition.

Completely agree. I think there is such a thing as internalized homophobia, meaning some closeted gay men take a homophobic stance as a defense mechanism, which is really just a byproduct of their own struggle with their own perceived 'shame' of being gay and fearful of public criticism. One of my close gay friends admitted that before he came out, he used to be "one of those people" who ostracized gays in public to hide his shame from people.

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 34):
The second or third group may be straight, gay or whatever. I tend to take the view that if you want to talk, then I am happy to listen. If you prefer to keep your private life private, then I am fine with that as well.

Totally. I've worked under very top-ranking managers in consulting who are very personable, outgoing and high-performing leaders for an extended period of time. I can think of a few who never revealed many details about their families, or who they lived with, whether they were married, partnered or had children, but I never ventured or considered to even ask. If he/she went as far as to refer to themselves as, "I/we", I'd respond back referring to them as "You or you all" depending on the case. That's it. I was far more concerned about my personal growth and satisfaction working under them, and having a good working relationship with them, and in every single case I thoroughly enjoyed it and would work again for them any day. That's all that mattered to me.

Indeed, you'd be truly surprised on how well you can get to know someone with out going into details about family, sexual orientation or marital status.
 
ScarletHarlot
Posts: 4251
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 12:15 pm

RE: Current Prevalence Of Gay Pilots At Airlines?

Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:48 am

Quoting longhauler (Reply 30):
But it reminds me of what an F/O said to me recently. He said "I love going to bars with you on layovers, I KNOW you and I are not looking at the same people!".

I find that gay men tend to be able to approach ladies very easily as well, so your F/Os should love you for helping them to meet women!

There will always be jerks out there like the SWA pilot, but thankfully, there are fewer and fewer of them. Nobody should ever tell you you can't or shouldn't do something because you're gay, just like nobody should ever tell me I can't or shouldn't do something because I'm a girl. We should all be judged on our competency.
But that was when I ruled the world
 
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DocLightning
Posts: 21591
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:51 am

RE: Current Prevalence Of Gay Pilots At Airlines?

Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:50 am

Quoting longhauler (Reply 25):
As far as the earrings go, I honestly don't remember. But I do note in Air Canada's pilot Flight Operations Manual, it does state that (discreet) earrings may be worn .. but only by female pilots!

When my medical school class was being prepared to start our third year (which is the first year where we are routinely working with patients), we were given the following advice:

"You should be mindful of how much metal you have in and around various bodily orifices. We aren't going to tell you what to wear and we aren't going to tell you what not to wear, but please remember: it's NOT all about you."

When in a professional role, the best course is not to dress to impress, but to dress so as to not offend.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
stratosphere
Posts: 1679
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:45 pm

RE: Current Prevalence Of Gay Pilots At Airlines?

Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:00 am

Quoting crjavionics (Reply 15):
Not to throw the topic off in a completly different direction, but when I was in A & P school there was a openly gay man a few classes ahead of me who was getting his license with the full intention of working as a mechanic for an airline. Now thats a department that it would interesting to see some stats from.

Have to laugh when I was working for NWA in MSP I worked with a guy I would have never dreamed he was gay he was going to Florida and being a judge in Bikini contests. I left MSP and went to ATL...Well come to find out he came out and founded ANGLE ..Alliance of Northwest Gay and Lesbian Employees. I was blown away.. But us mechanics went on strike in 2005. Now I had no problem with him being gay but he did SCAB and cross the picket line that I had a problem with.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Current Prevalence Of Gay Pilots At Airlines?

Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:47 am

Quoting geezer (Reply 32):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 28):

I have just 2 questions.................

!. Is Wardair still in business ?

No, they were acquired by Canadian Airlines (CP) in 1989 so they're now part of AC.

Max Ward, the founder, CEO, and major shareholder for their entire history, turned 90 last November. Still lives in Edmonton where he was born.
http://www.flightglobal.com/airspace...2011/02/26/wardair-canada-ltd.aspx
 
ghifty
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Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 9:12 pm

RE: Current Prevalence Of Gay Pilots At Airlines?

Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:53 am

Would your sexuality even matter?

I mean.. it's not like when you apply for a piloting career they ask for it. And it's not like one of the questions your co-pilot (or whoever's flying opposite you) is going to ask "what's your sexuality"?

In regards to women on the flight deck, I'd imagine it's still hard for them. Firstly, people on YouTube always seem to be "shocked" when the pilot (not the co, mind you) is a woman. And after all the flights I've been on, I haven't seen ANY female pilots, or first officers. Secondly, many people still retain the false belief that women are inferior to men in certain regards..

My view? If they can fly well, hire them. Who cares who they sleep with, and who cares what chromosomes they have?

I speak for AMERICAN carriers, I imagine the situation is much different in the Asian nations.
Fly Delta (Wid)Jets

Comments made here reflect only my personal opinions.
 
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adamblang
Posts: 1169
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RE: Current Prevalence Of Gay Pilots At Airlines?

Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:03 am

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 7):
I think rating systems like this are somewhat pointless, and don't really tell the true story.
Quoting planejamie (Reply 17):
This whole "Stats" thing annoys me because wherever you go you'll still get homophobic people (in my experience) and, thank god, those odds are decreasing...

True, you can't sanitize the world, there're bad apples everywhere. But a company can put HR and corporate responsibility programs in place to support their LGBT employees. Things like writing sexual orientation or identity into their nondiscrimination policies, offering benefits to domestic partners, things like that which go a long way to make LGBT employees feel like we're just one of the rank and file rather than being treated differently. And that's what the HRC rating sets out to do: http://www.hrc.org/resources/entry/2...-Corporate-Equality-Index-Criteria

Quoting FN1001 (Reply 26):
Who really cares about the sexual habbits of a pilot except his/her partner? Does this have an influence on how he/she is doing his/her job?

You're right, it's totally irrelevant. But it is nice to know where I should spend my money so I can contribute to companies that believe it's ok to be gay.
146 319 320 321 332 333 343 717 734 735 73G 738 739 744 752 753 763 764 772 773 789 AR1 AT4 CNA CR2 CR7 DC9 ER3 ERD ER4 E70 E75 E90
 
jetBlue
Posts: 349
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RE: Current Prevalence Of Gay Pilots At Airlines?

Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:30 am

I'm a gay pilot and have not had any problems with other crew members when it comes to sexuality. In 4 years, there is only one trip I remember where I got the impression the captain may have been homophobic, but it could've just as easily been he was having a bad day.

The airline industry is extremely diverse by nature and employed are many very open-minded people. In the end, sexuality does not really matter...it's more of having professional skills and a good attitude!

jetBlue
We know for you it's not just a seat on a flight to a place. It's a seat on a flight to your life.
 
crownvic
Posts: 2487
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:16 pm

RE: Current Prevalence Of Gay Pilots At Airlines?

Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:48 am

Does this topic even belong in this forum section? Moderators...I think it should be moved to polls, preferences, etc,
 
jmc1975
Posts: 3015
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2000 10:57 am

RE: Current Prevalence Of Gay Pilots At Airlines?

Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:48 am

Why is this even a topic for a thread? It is no more or less relevant than a thread about straight-male flight attendants. Who cares about his sexual orientation, as long as he does is job with the utmost professionalism? Is it assumed that a straight-male flight attendant might be inferior to his gay counterpart? Why does the subject of sexual orientation seem to be of frequent discussion here? Can people be appreciated for their talent, abilities, and profressionalism alone?
.......
 
crownvic
Posts: 2487
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:16 pm

RE: Current Prevalence Of Gay Pilots At Airlines?

Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:44 am

I agree jmc1975...There are web sites for talking about sexual orientation and you can read about it practically daily in city newspapers along with robberies, murders and Paris Hilton. The reason I come to this site is to read about airline news, routes, aircraft news, etc. etc. Can we not just keep it that way?
 
ghifty
Posts: 906
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 9:12 pm

RE: Current Prevalence Of Gay Pilots At Airlines?

Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:58 am

Quoting jmc1975 (Reply 46):
Can people be appreciated for their talent, abilities, and profressionalism alone?

That's the question this thread adresses, is it not?

Quoting crownvic (Reply 47):
The reason I come to this site is to read about airline news, routes, aircraft news, etc. etc.

There's dozens of threads that I've never opened, and will never open. If you don't like the topic.. don't look inside of it.
Fly Delta (Wid)Jets

Comments made here reflect only my personal opinions.
 
gaystudpilot
Posts: 188
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:55 pm

RE: Current Prevalence Of Gay Pilots At Airlines?

Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:12 am

Quoting questions (Thread starter):
From these scores it appears these companies embrace diversity and that LGBT employees are more comfortable working for higher-scoring companies than those that scored lower.

How about in the cockpit? It seems pilots and their workspace are the bastion of masculinity. I'm sure female pilots have had to work three times as hard to prove themselves. How about gay pilots? How prevalent are they? Are they welcome in the cockpit? How about for pilots of airlines based outside the US?

First, thanks "questions" for asking the question. When I began flying for an airline, I was married to a woman. After I divorced I felt compelled to hide my sexuality. I truly believed that it was not OK to be a gay pilot, that co-workers would judge me with a lens of being gay vs professionalism, and that I would be perceived as inferior. Part of this was due to my own lack of self-confidence and part of it was due to perceived/real societal pressures at the time. I never officially came out at work. I just began to integrate the realities of my life in the things I shared with my co-workers. Only twice have I encountered unprofessional tension. On the first occasion, I let it slide since the guy was an obvious jerk. On the second occasion, I let the guy have it... afterwards, I started to walk away, turned around, and concluded with a Julia Sugarbaker rip... "And that... Marsha... is the night... the lights... went out... in Georgia!" He had no clue what I had just said, but the bystanders certainly got a chuckle out of my uncommonly camp closure.

Quoting pliersinsight (Reply 29):
Gay guys have been helping our chances of getting girls for years by cutting down the competition.

I have been a wingman for both guys and girls seeking the opposite sex and have been very successfully on a number occasion. I'm all about helping everyone!

Quoting jetBlue (Reply 44):
I'm a gay pilot and have not had any problems with other crew members when it comes to sexuality. In 4 years, there is only one trip I remember where I got the impression the captain may have been homophobic, but it could've just as easily been he was having a bad day.

The airline industry is extremely diverse by nature and employed are many very open-minded people. In the end, sexuality does not really matter...it's more of having professional skills and a good attitude!

Always best to chalk it up to a bad day. Otherwise you could drive yourself bonkers.

Quoting crownvic (Reply 45):
Does this topic even belong in this forum section? Moderators...I think it should be moved to polls, preferences, etc,

Yes it does. It's not a poll, it's not about preferences. The OP is asking about what it's like to work for an airline when a pilot is gay. This is no different than when posters ask about cabin crew staffing, seniority, flight privileges, cabin crew roles, etc. The million plus airline employees around the world who keep the public flying safely are just as important as aircraft, routes, alliances, business models, mergers, and industry news, trends, and rumors... and that... Marsha... is the night... the lights... went out... in Georgia!



[Edited 2012-01-20 00:20:16]

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