CO EWR-HKG?

COEWRNJ · Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:16 pm

I was just taking a look on continental.com at the EWR-HKG route and it doesn't look like it didn't operate yesterday and doesn't appear to be operating until the 26th. At that point it says that Flight #99 is operated by United.

First of all I thought EWR-HKG was daily. Is it reduced in the winter? Second, I didn't think UA's 777's had the ability to do EWR-HKG.

817Dreamliiner · Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:38 pm

Quoting COEWRNJ (Thread starter):
I didn't think UA's 777's had the ability to do EWR-HKG.

I would think they would be using ex CO 777's, I would also think UA's would be able to do the route, as the do have 777-200ERs like CO just different engines

AA737-823 · Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:46 pm

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 1):
I would think they would be using ex CO 777's, I would also think UA's would be able to do the route, as the do have 777-200ERs like CO just different engines

Just as a Ford Taurus with a four cylinder is NOT the same as a Ford Taurus with a six cylinder, not all 777-2ER's are the same.
UA's have lower MGTOW limits, and lower thrust engines. CO's bigger engines, which have been upgraded with several performance enhancement retrofits since new, allow the aircraft to climb better, which puts the bird at a lower fuel burn rate much sooner.
CO's birds have also received other improvements, like the redesigned vortex generators on the wings, which make the plane a bit more capable.
I don't remember the specific numbers for the MGTOW differences, though.

So no, they're not the same animal at all.

washingtonian · Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:51 pm

I believe the general consensus on A.net is that EWR-HKG is the one pre-merger Continental route that pre-merger United's 777s can't operate (without significant penalties) on...I'm sure they'd love to put a 3-class bird on the route.

United1 · Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:01 pm

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 2):
UA's have lower MGTOW limits, and lower thrust engines. CO's bigger engines, which have been upgraded with several performance enhancement retrofits since new, allow the aircraft to climb better, which puts the bird at a lower fuel burn rate much sooner.
CO's birds have also received other improvements, like the redesigned vortex generators on the wings, which make the plane a bit more capable.
I don't remember the specific numbers for the MGTOW differences, though.

UAs 222ERs all received an increase in MTOW so the difference between the 222ERs and 2224ERs is pretty negligible on that front. They also announced that they are adding some of the aerodynamic improvements that are on the 224s to the 222ERs.

The 224s have a slight edge but its not as much as has been blown out of proportion on a.net.

Quoting COEWRNJ (Thread starter):
I was just taking a look on continental.com at the EWR-HKG route and it doesn't look like it didn't operate yesterday and doesn't appear to be operating until the 26th. At that point it says that Flight #99 is operated by United.

Looks like it's being flown by ship 0016 a 224ER.

817Dreamliiner · Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:07 pm

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 2):

But isnt the thrust and MTOW, software and paperwork? And cant these upgrades be applied to UA 772ERs or is it because they are older ER versions than CO's or am I wrong?

yeogeo · Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:31 pm

Quoting COEWRNJ (Thread starter):
First of all I thought EWR-HKG was daily. Is it reduced in the winter?

No, it is daily in the current schedules.

yeo

tjwgrr · Tue Jan 24, 2012 1:47 pm

Massive solar storm disrupting flights:

http://news.sky.com/home/video/world-news/video/16155261

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2012/...ongest-radiation-storm-in-7-years/

LHUSA · Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:28 pm

There are also several pacific cancelations due to Chinese New Year.

DualQual · Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:23 pm

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 5):
But isnt the thrust and MTOW, software and paperwork? And cant these upgrades be applied to UA 772ERs or is it because they are older ER versions than CO's or am I wrong?

Any potential paper upgrade can be applied.............for a fee.

delta2ual · Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:28 pm

I believe it is daily year-round. From what I hear it is a money maker. Would Chinese New Year have anything to do with it? I don't know if that would mean more people travelling or less.

tsnamm · Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:57 pm

Quoting LHUSA (Reply 8):
There are also several pacific cancelations due to Chinese New Year

PEK and PVG are also not running until the end of the week as well...no change in schedule...

COEWRNJ · Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:17 pm

Chinese New Year would make sense as to why there is not scheduled EWR-HKG. Normally they still list the flight even with the solar flairs and they just show the diversion point.

Tdan · Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:18 pm

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 3):
I believe the general consensus on A.net is that EWR-HKG is the one pre-merger Continental route that pre-merger United's 777s can't operate (without significant penalties) on...I'm sure they'd love to put a 3-class bird on the route.

EWR-BOM/DEL cannot operate with PMUA 777s either due to the distance and westbound winds.

Quoting LHUSA (Reply 8):
There are also several pacific cancellations due to Chinese New Year.

[Edited 2012-01-24 12:18:55]

DFWHeavy · Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:45 pm

The PMUA 77E should be able to do DEL-EWR ok without much restrictuon, if any... but yes, BOM-EWR is pushing it, even for the PMCO birds.

seabosdca · Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:50 pm

Quoting United1 (Reply 4):
UAs 222ERs all received an increase in MTOW so the difference between the 222ERs and 2224ERs is pretty negligible on that front.

There's still a difference of not quite 4 t (656,000 vs. 648,000 lbs.). That's enough to make a difference of a couple hundred nautical miles given the same payload.

648,000 is the highest Pratt-powered 772ERs can go.

And on top of that, the GEs do a bit better on cruise SFC than the Pratts. So, yes, there is a minor difference... but...

Quoting United1 (Reply 4):
The 224s have a slight edge but its not as much as has been blown out of proportion on a.net.

That said, you won't see PMUA 772ERs doing the routes where even the PMCO 772ERs really struggle -- EWR-HKG and BOM-EWR. And expect those routes to get taken over by 787-9s once they're here. The 787-9 should have an additional few hundred miles of range compared with even the best 772ER.

Tdan · Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:56 pm

Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 14):
The PMUA 77E should be able to do DEL-EWR ok without much restrictuon, if any... but yes, BOM-EWR is pushing it, even for the PMCO birds.

DEL-EWR would probably be ok in the winter, but I bet PMUA 777s would have payload restrictions in the summer. Anecdotal evidence only that I've heard

star_world · Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:27 pm

This is still a daily flight operated by a PMCO 777, but now coded as "Operated by United Airlines". The CO designation has been removed from some flights due to regulatory reasons related to the SOC.

[Edited 2012-01-24 13:27:19]

VC10er · Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:22 am

Why not a 3 class 747? I don't think the CO business class seat is a good enough seat to compete. This would be a route with paid First Class from Wall ST alone.

seabosdca · Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:16 am

Quoting VC10er (Reply 18):
Why not a 3 class 747?

Lack of range. The UA 744 is down about 300-400 nm on the PMCO 772ER. It struggles with ORD-HKG and EWR-HKG is significantly longer.

fshplns · Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:27 am

Just checked flifo for CO99 today.... NO-OP. CO79 is operating as a one stop to HKG (a/c change in NRT to an Air Mike 738).

Chris

tpaewr · Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:07 pm

Due to SOC legal stuff all flts going thru HKG-EWR/NRT/SGN/GUM say ops by UA, but are in fact CO. The same goes for MNL-GUM/ROR.

It is the reverse of IAH-CSS which had to revert to the CO call sign.

Just bumps along the way

tommy767 · Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:15 pm

Quoting DualQual (Reply 9):

Quoting tpaewr (Reply 21):
Due to SOC legal stuff all flts going thru HKG-EWR/NRT/SGN/GUM say ops by UA, but are in fact CO. The same goes for MNL-GUM/ROR.

I heard HKG-EWR on the radio called out at United by the pilots. It was "United 88."

tpaewr · Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:31 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 22):
I heard HKG-EWR on the radio called out at United by the pilots. It was "United 88."

since SOC all flights use the UA call sign (save CCS), however since UA is still hosted in Apollo the CO code remains native to SHARES. All CO op'd flight will carry that code. However flights routing thru HKG or MNL most carry the tag "operated by United" to meet local legal requirements.

That said, they are all still PMCO a/c and crew. The pax chk in with CO staff at CO counters, and all CO rules/policy apply.

edit- CO/UA 88 is PEK, 98 is HKG.

[Edited 2012-01-25 07:33:35]

tommy767 · Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:21 pm

Quoting tpaewr (Reply 23):
edit- CO/UA 88 is PEK, 98 is HKG.

Yeah...all of that will be ending in like 2 months? No more Continental after that.

tpaewr · Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:33 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 24):
eah...all of that will be ending in like 2 months? No more Continental after that.

It will only impact the letter code. CO numbering will remain 001-199, likewise the UA system will remain 800-900.

So EWRHKG will stay 99, and IADNRT will stay 803, but with only the UA code.

tommy767 · Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:42 pm

Quoting tpaewr (Reply 25):

It will only impact the letter code. CO numbering will remain 001-199, likewise the UA system will remain 800-900.

Yes -- I get that. But the Continental name will be gone. It will be United 1-99 and United 800-900

MarkC · Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:56 pm

UA have 90k engines, and thats the limit for that type. CO used to have 90k and had to block 50 seats east. Now CO upgraded to 94k and fly full pax loads both ways.

n92r03 · Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:09 pm

On February 15, EWR-HKG-EWR changes to flight numbers 117/116.

On CO's website they are listed as CO 117/116 "operated by United Airlines". Even UA's 895/896 (ORD-HKG-ORD) are listed as CO 895/896 "operated by United Airlines"on CO's website.

On UA's website they are listed as UA 117/116 "operated by United Airlines".

I suppose it will be that way until all the merger stuff is complete...

flythere · Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:55 am

All the cancellation this week to HKG, PEK and PVG is due to Chinese New Year Holiday, they will all be resumed gradually. Cheers.

qf002 · Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:29 am

Quoting flythere (Reply 29):
All the cancellation this week to HKG, PEK and PVG is due to Chinese New Year Holiday, they will all be resumed gradually. Cheers.

Out of curiosity -- why are these flights all suspended? All the flights here are operating as normal (as they do every year)??

dotolohc · Thu Jan 26, 2012 6:09 pm

Flt reduce due to Chinese new year. No business traffic during this time. CO has been doing this for a while. Flt also reduced during thanksgiving and Christmas .

T5towbar · Thu Jan 26, 2012 6:39 pm

Quoting dotolohc (Reply 31):
Flt reduce due to Chinese new year. No business traffic during this time. CO has been doing this for a while. Flt also reduced during thanksgiving and Christmas .

Don't forget about the unusually high solar flares activity around the North Pole which rerouted some filghts which navigate that area.

gigneil · Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:18 pm

Quoting tpaewr (Reply 21):
Due to SOC legal stuff all flts going thru HKG-EWR/NRT/SGN/GUM say ops by UA, but are in fact CO. The same goes for MNL-GUM/ROR.

There is no such thing as Continental Airlines anymore. So no, they're not in fact CO. They're marketed as Continental but there is no airline by that name, all flights are operated by United Airlines.

Quoting T5towbar (Reply 32):
Don't forget about the unusually high solar flares activity around the North Pole which rerouted some filghts which navigate that area.

I don't believe there have been any outright cancellations but a number have flights have definitely diverted.

NS

Viscount724 · Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:27 pm

Quoting gigneil (Reply 33):
Quoting tpaewr (Reply 21):
Due to SOC legal stuff all flts going thru HKG-EWR/NRT/SGN/GUM say ops by UA, but are in fact CO. The same goes for MNL-GUM/ROR.

There is no such thing as Continental Airlines anymore. So no, they're not in fact CO. They're marketed as Continental but there is no airline by that name, all flights are operated by United Airlines.

It was my understanding that (as mentioned by tpaewr) this was not the case, and that certain routes are in fact still legally CO flights until the operating permit is completely merged in all the technical and maintenance areas etc.

tsnamm · Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:38 pm

Quoting T5towbar (Reply 32):
Don't forget about the unusually high solar flares activity around the North Pole which rerouted some filghts which navigate that area.

The cancellations had nothing to do with the solar flares and were loaded in the schedule since the beginning of the month due to demand based on Chinese New Year

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 22):
I heard HKG-EWR on the radio called out at United by the pilots. It was "United 88."

The CO call sign was retired a while ago...there was a thread concerning the "last CO flight" which was CO 86 from PVG/EWR...all flights except for CCS as has been pointed out all use the UA call sign whether or not they are flown by PMCO crews or marketed as CO via PMCO hubs etc...

gigneil · Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:54 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 34):
It was my understanding that (as mentioned by tpaewr) this was not the case, and that certain routes are in fact still legally CO flights until the operating permit is completely merged in all the technical and maintenance areas etc.

Not correct. There is one operating certificate. Continental no longer exists outside the actual brand.

NS

T5towbar · Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:05 am

Quoting tsnamm (Reply 35):
Quoting T5towbar (Reply 32):
Don't forget about the unusually high solar flares activity around the North Pole which rerouted some filghts which navigate that area.

The cancellations had nothing to do with the solar flares and were loaded in the schedule since the beginning of the month due to demand based on Chinese New Year

That's true, in yesterday's United Daily, Flight Dispatch said that there were route adjustments made in that effect. Flt 86 came in last nite heavy w/ transfer bags.

tsnamm · Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:11 am

Quoting T5towbar (Reply 37):
Flt 86 came in last nite heavy w/ transfer bags.

and plenty of mail....business as usual

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