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raffik
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BA To Start 747 Service To Moscow

Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:59 pm

I was told by two BA flight crew that the airline was going to switch their evening service from Heathrow to Moscow to a
Boeing 747. Can anyone else validate this?
It seems like quite a large aircraft to send on a 4 hour flight. Is it cargo ? High passenger loads?

I did a search but to no avail

Many thanks
- Alec
 
BlueShamu330s
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RE: BA To Start 747 Service To Moscow

Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:04 pm

Confirmed.

Tapping into the high demand for First Class out of Russia, connecting through LHR to the rest of the world.

A very, very savvy business decision by BA IMO.

Rgds
Flying around India
 
captainmeeerkat
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RE: BA To Start 747 Service To Moscow

Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:07 pm

Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 1):
Tapping into the high demand for First Class out of Russia

I've travelled on BA LHR-DME and vice-vearsa approx. 10 times in the last year and down the back is rarely full, sometimes barely loaded. They must be making it up in front indeed.
my luggage is better travelled than me!
 
B747forever
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RE: BA To Start 747 Service To Moscow

Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:07 pm

Yes they will begin to deploy the 747 to DME and upgrading the 767 to the long haul 767s. They are doing this to offer a better product.
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
antonovman
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RE: BA To Start 747 Service To Moscow

Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:12 pm

Quoting raffik (Thread starter):

I was told by two BA flight crew that the airline was going to switch their evening service from Heathrow to Moscow to a
Boeing 747

I thought it had started months ago !
 
LHRFlyer
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RE: BA To Start 747 Service To Moscow

Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:17 pm

Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 1):
A very, very savvy business decision by BA IMO.

I'm not sure it could be described as savvy. I think some would say it was long overdue as the Club Europe configuration was inferior to competitor products and BA has lost market share on the route as a consequence.
 
[email protected]
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RE: BA To Start 747 Service To Moscow

Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:18 pm

Quoting raffik (Thread starter):
switch their evening service from Heathrow to Moscow

It's loaded already, although it seems to operate #233 and #232 (notice the change in flight numbers for all DME flights from 8XX):

LHR-DME: 0850-1525
DME-LHR: 1715-1805

[Edited 2012-01-24 08:36:44]
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raffik
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RE: BA To Start 747 Service To Moscow

Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:19 pm

Quoting antonovman (Reply 4):
I thought it had started months ago !

Just checked the schedule and it's 767 at the moment so not started yet.

Is this going to be the shortest BA 747 regularly scheduled service? I know they've occasionally gone down to Cairo and Tel Aviv but these are nearer 5 hours
- Alec
 
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eurowings
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RE: BA To Start 747 Service To Moscow

Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:31 pm

It's also worth noting that BD is one of the major competitors on this route and they have been offering a better business class product - BD Mid-Haul instead of BA Club Europe.

Recently it has been quite rare for BA and BD to compete directly with each other, so the upcoming changes with BD may make putting larger aircraft on this route even more viable.
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B747forever
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RE: BA To Start 747 Service To Moscow

Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:59 pm

Quoting [email protected] (Reply 6):
although it seems to operate #233 and #232 (notice the change in flight numbers for all DME flights from 8XX):

Yeah, it has changed to the long haul flight numbers.

One question, will they offer long haul service to DME? Will they serve a "real" meal in Y?
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
lhr380
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RE: BA To Start 747 Service To Moscow

Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:22 pm

Quoting B747forever (Reply 9):

Yes, it's being sold as a long haul service on long haul aircraft so a proper meal will get served.
(The views on this site are my own and no one elses)
 
Trucker
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RE: BA To Start 747 Service To Moscow

Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:13 pm

Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 1):
connecting through LHR to the rest of the world
Quoting [email protected] (Reply 6):
DME-LHR: 1715-1805

Will there really be that many opportunities to connect to the rest of the world with an 1805 arrival at LHR unless one was OK with staying overnight and heading out the next day? I'm thinking this flight will be more for people with things to do in London the next day.
 
vv701
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RE: BA To Start 747 Service To Moscow

Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:23 pm

Quoting raffik (Reply 7):
Is this going to be the shortest BA 747 regularly scheduled service? I know they've occasionally gone down to Cairo and Tel Aviv but these are nearer 5 hours

The daily LHR-CAI-LHR rotation was operated b y a 744 until demand fell away at the start of the Arab Spring early last year. Then a 772 was substituted.

The elapsed time for the LHR-CAI flight is about 4 hrs 40 mins. The LHR-TLV flight that is scheduled as a 763 and 772 operation is virtually the same. The LHR-DME flight will be about 4 hrs, so it will be BA's quickest scheduled 744 flight ever. But I have seen a 744 operating CDG-LHR although the 744 was a substitute aircraft and did not appear in the schedule.
 
B747forever
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RE: BA To Start 747 Service To Moscow

Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:31 pm

Quoting lhr380 (Reply 10):
Yes, it's being sold as a long haul service on long haul aircraft so a proper meal will get served.

When it still was considered short haul, was the service on board like any other intra European route?
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
by738
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RE: BA To Start 747 Service To Moscow

Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:34 pm

Announced months ago . . . .
 
BlueShamu330s
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RE: BA To Start 747 Service To Moscow

Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:47 pm

Quoting Trucker (Reply 11):
Will there really be that many opportunities to connect to the rest of the world with an 1805 arrival at LHR unless one was OK with staying overnight and heading out the next day?

Plenty. On BA metal alone from 1915 - 2300hrs:

BOS
JFK
CPT
SIN
DXB
JNB
HKG
RUH
BKK
SYD
BOM
GRU
SIN
MEL
KWI
EZE
JED

Plus all other codeshares and OneWorld schedules, it makes quite a decent coverage.

Rgds
Flying around India
 
B747forever
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RE: BA To Start 747 Service To Moscow

Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:59 pm

Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 15):
Plenty. On BA metal alone from 1915 - 2300hrs

But flying DME-LHR-Asia involves quite a backtracking.
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
MaverickM11
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RE: BA To Start 747 Service To Moscow

Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:16 pm

Quoting EuroWings (Reply 8):
It's also worth noting that BD is one of the major competitors on this route and they have been offering a better business class product - BD Mid-Haul instead of BA Club Europe.

Seems more of a symptom of a lack of 744 longhaul opportunities than a competitive LON/MOW issue; I can't imagine competing with BD is driving this.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
Viscount724
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RE: BA To Start 747 Service To Moscow

Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:22 pm

Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 15):
Quoting Trucker (Reply 11):
Will there really be that many opportunities to connect to the rest of the world with an 1805 arrival at LHR unless one was OK with staying overnight and heading out the next day?

Plenty. On BA metal alone from 1915 - 2300hrs:

BOS
JFK
CPT
SIN
DXB
JNB
HKG
RUH
BKK
SYD
BOM
GRU
SIN
MEL
KWI
EZE
JED

But many of those routings involve very large backhauls via LHR. For example, DME-LHR-SIN is about 60% further than a nonstop. Can't see BA wanting to sell much of that traffic as they'd have to offer competitive fares to convince anyone to fly so far out of their way.
 
B747forever
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RE: BA To Start 747 Service To Moscow

Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:38 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 17):
Seems more of a symptom of a lack of 744 longhaul opportunities than a competitive LON/MOW issue; I can't imagine competing with BD is driving this.

Especially now when they are buying them!
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
jfk777
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RE: BA To Start 747 Service To Moscow

Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:42 pm

This was announced back in the fall, Just shows how much F & J class connecting traffic there is from Moscow.
 
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eurowings
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RE: BA To Start 747 Service To Moscow

Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:02 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 17):
Seems more of a symptom of a lack of 744 longhaul opportunities than a competitive LON/MOW issue; I can't imagine competing with BD is driving this.

No, I agree that's not the issue here. What I meant was that the BD competition will be 'eliminated' after the takeover, thus allowing BA more room for growth in the premium cabins on this route.
"Freddie Laker may be at peace with his Maker, but he is persona non grata with IATA."- HRH Duke of Edinburgh
 
abrown532
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RE: BA To Start 747 Service To Moscow

Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:04 pm

I disagree with BA when they say that are going to operate a 747 on that route. In my opinion, if they are basically only targeting the First/business class market, should it not make more sense to use a BA A318 and operate from DME to LCY? What does everyone else think?
 
B747forever
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RE: BA To Start 747 Service To Moscow

Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:04 pm

Quoting EuroWings (Reply 21):

No, I agree that's not the issue here. What I meant was that the BD competition will be 'eliminated' after the takeover, thus allowing BA more room for growth in the premium cabins on this route.

That makes sense, but when BA announced this upgrade months ago they were probably not talking with LH about buying BD.
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
photoshooter
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RE: BA To Start 747 Service To Moscow

Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:10 pm

Smart idea but I doubt if the 744 can offer a bigger profit then a B767 or B772...
I don't know exactly but I guess the flight is around 4-5 hours? If I remember correctly,
many other airlines do the same with the flight to TLV.

Niek  
'A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.' - Winston Churchill
 
Viscount724
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RE: BA To Start 747 Service To Moscow

Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:16 pm

Quoting abrown532 (Reply 22):
should it not make more sense to use a BA A318 and operate from DME to LCY?

That would mean reducing service on LCY-JFK as both of BA's A318s are fully occupied on that route with 2 flights daily (except weekends). And for the many markets where BA can offer good connections via LHR, they'd lose that potential traffic if they served LCY.

I would also guess that quite a bit of DME-LHR traffic is on weekends, especially the Y class traffic, and LCY is closed Saturday afternoon and Sunday morning.
 
tcasalert
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RE: BA To Start 747 Service To Moscow

Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:21 pm

Quoting abrown532 (Reply 22):
I disagree with BA when they say that are going to operate a 747 on that route. In my opinion, if they are basically only targeting the First/business class market, should it not make more sense to use a BA A318 and operate from DME to LCY? What does everyone else think?

Yes but the A318 couldn't handle the amount of cargo also on the route.

The route is already operated by the 767-300, so to go to the 747 isn't a massive capacity increase (especially when they are changing from the short-haul to lower density, long-haul configured 767/747s).
Next flight: Feb 2012 - BHX-CPH-BHX - SK MD87 / CRJ900
 
nickofatlanta
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RE: BA To Start 747 Service To Moscow

Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:28 pm

Quoting raffik (Reply 7):
Is this going to be the shortest BA 747 regularly scheduled service? I know they've occasionally gone down to Cairo and Tel Aviv but these are nearer 5 hours

I believe it currently is. In the past, they've operated the much shorter BAH-DOH and GRU-EZE tag-ons with 744 equipment.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: BA To Start 747 Service To Moscow

Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:50 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 20):
Just shows how much F & J class connecting traffic there is from Moscow.

I'd say the reverse--it shows the trouble in the longhaul markets the 744 is normally used on.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
B747forever
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RE: BA To Start 747 Service To Moscow

Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:14 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 28):

I'd say the reverse--it shows the trouble in the longhaul markets the 744 is normally used on.

I am sure BA have some slack in their 747 fleet which makes this flight to DME possible.
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
Gemuser
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RE: BA To Start 747 Service To Moscow

Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:07 pm

Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 15):
Plenty. On BA metal alone from 1915 - 2300hrs:

MEL

BA serve MEL on their OWN metal????
When was that reintroduced?

Gemuser
DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
 
Bellerophon
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RE: BA To Start 747 Service To Moscow

Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:59 pm

raffik

Quote:
,,,BA To Start 747 Service To Moscow...

Perhaps that should read BA to restart B747s services to Moscow - after a long absence?  

BA had B747s on scheduled services on London - Moscow - Japan in the 1980s. I'm not sure if they had passenger rights between London and Moscow on those services - I think they did but I'm not certain.

I only did a couple of them - and if I remember correctly, the route didn't stay on the B747 long.

Best Regards

Bellerophon
 
dennys
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RE: BA To Start 747 Service To Moscow

Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:02 am

The 744 BA follows the same way at the end of its carreer as his glorious predecessor , the BA 707 by 1979-1982 : the Middle East and some European flights ( MAD )
 
CX747
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RE: BA To Start 747 Service To Moscow

Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:55 am

The question is, where does BA find the 744 to operate this route? Either BA is pulling a 744 from another route or there are spare 744s at LHR needing work.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
BlueShamu330s
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RE: BA To Start 747 Service To Moscow

Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:09 am

Quoting gemuser (Reply 30):
BA serve MEL on their OWN metal????
When was that reintroduced?

Ooops. I apologise for my misty eyed regression back to the good old days !   

Rgds
Flying around India
 
scrappy27
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RE: BA To Start 747 Service To Moscow

Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:24 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 28):
I believe it currently is. In the past, they've operated the much shorter BAH-DOH and GRU-EZE tag-ons with 744 equipment.

We also did LGW-MAN on the 744 (then onto ISB)
 
YVRLTN
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RE: BA To Start 747 Service To Moscow

Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:34 am

Quoting CX747 (Reply 33):
The question is, where does BA find the 744 to operate this route? Either BA is pulling a 744 from another route or there are spare 744s at LHR needing work.

2 744's are coming back from desert storage, plus the 77W's being delivered frees up 744's.
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CX747
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RE: BA To Start 747 Service To Moscow

Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:31 am

What are the registrations of the 744s coming back from the desert? Any hope to see G-BNLH winging her way back to homebase at LHR?
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
su
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RE: BA To Start 747 Service To Moscow

Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:43 am

As a frequent business traveler out of Moscow i can say this is a smart move from BA. Flights between London and Moscow in premium cabins are always full (so as in economy - at least on SU and BD).

Now let's look at the services that carriers offer on this rout:

MOW-LON market has 4 airlines - SU, BD, BA and UN.

SU - new A321/320 with proper business class seating 2X2, 38' legroom, premium food and drinks, video entertainment and amenity kit

BD - A321 with proper business class seating 2X2, 50' legroom, premium food and drinks, video entertainment and amenity kit

UN - 737 with proper business class seating 2X2 38' legroom, premium food and drinks, video entertainment and amenity kit

BA - 767 or A320 - economy class seating in business class, 31'-34' legroom, food and drinks are ok, no video entertainment and no amenity kit.

Price wise - they are all more or less the same

Last year i have traveled at least 10 times from Moscow to London and only one time I took a BA flight and it wasn't by choice but no availability in business or economy on SU and BD evening flights.

I know many professionals who chose to take SU, BD or UN and not even consider BA due to the luck of premium product on its Moscow flights, even when BA's evening flight leave 9:55PM which sometime is more convenience than BD's flight at 7:10PM

BA should introduce something new to the route in order to attract customers who are very loyal to its competitors. Upgrading BA's premium product is not enough as passengers are very happy with SU/BD and UN's products. Offering a larger aircraft, more space and superior seats will definitly win new customers, including me...
"Life is too short to take it serious..."
 
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LTU330
Posts: 254
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RE: BA To Start 747 Service To Moscow

Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:08 am

I used to do a lot of Courier flights to SVO when I worked for British Airways. The 744 makes sense. There is a massive demand for Cargo on these flights. I would imagine that you could make a profit with no passengers on that route purely from the Cargo revenue. Putting backsides on seats in First and Club World would just be a bonus.
 
mikey72
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RE: BA To Start 747 Service To Moscow

Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:25 am

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 36):
2 744's are coming back from desert storage, plus the 77W's being delivered frees up 744's.

How many more 744's are available for service re-entry ? Are they all back now ?
Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
 
NUAir
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RE: BA To Start 747 Service To Moscow

Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:49 am

"UN - 737 with proper business class seating 2X2 38' legroom, premium food and drinks, video entertainment and amenity kit "

Having flown UN between Moscow and Asia I would say their business class seating isn't proper, the food is far from decent, the business class lounge is awful and the video entertainment makes AA economy class seem luxurious. They did provide an amenity kit.

Maybe I have just been on the wrong aircraft (777's) but as a business travel I wouldn't consider UN again.
"How Many Assholes we got on this ship?" - Lord Helmet
 
su
Posts: 286
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2004 1:13 am

RE: BA To Start 747 Service To Moscow

Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:35 am

Quoting NUAir (Reply 41):
Maybe I have just been on the wrong aircraft (777's) but as a business travel I wouldn't consider UN again



NUAir - not to change the topic of the post - I agree - UN business class on long haul = premium economy or even economy of certain airlines. But their London flights are decent as codesharing with BD on that rout, they are forced to upgrade their services.

From Moscow to London - my choice will always be between SU and BD. But if neither is available I would get UN before BA and mainly due to the larger and wider seats and bigger legroom in business class on UN flights.
"Life is too short to take it serious..."
 
sandyb123
Posts: 961
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:29 pm

RE: BA To Start 747 Service To Moscow

Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:44 am

Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 15):
Plenty. On BA metal alone from 1915 - 2300hrs:

Only if your connecting west. As others have said, no point in going east through LHR.

Quoting abrown532 (Reply 22):
should it not make more sense to use a BA A318 and operate from DME to LCY? What does everyone else think?

That did pop into my head aswell although would have to be through LHR with an all-J configured aircraft like the TATL A318s for the connecting traffic.

Depending on were the majority of the DME connects onto they could compete on travel time with something like a 744 DME-LHR-JFK-LAX.

Sandyb123
Member of the mile high club
 
dennys
Posts: 689
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RE: BA To Start 747 Service To Moscow

Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:06 am

@CX747
well , BA still keeps (hopefully) a huge number of 747 up to now.
In between two long hauls 747 ( ie arriving early in thé morning and starting late at night) , thé aircraft can fly MOW and back .
Regards
 
skipness1E
Posts: 4713
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

RE: BA To Start 747 Service To Moscow

Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:26 pm

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 40):
How many more 744's are available for service re-entry ? Are they all back now ?

G-BNLA / D / H at KVCV. The first two are unlikely to come back, not sure if G-BNLH is an option. Jethro has it returning "Jan 11" but think that's a typo, oddly enough appears on ACARS here on the 6th. Possible reactivation?

http://www.libhomeradar.org/databasequery/results.php
 
BlueShamu330s
Posts: 2584
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RE: BA To Start 747 Service To Moscow

Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:04 pm

Quoting sandyb123 (Reply 43):
Only if your connecting west. As others have said, no point in going east through LHR.

I beg to differ. You would be surprised at the relative number of premium passengers who will back track from Finland, western parts of Russia etc to travel on BA metal to SYD for example.

Your rationale would apply equally to people in another instance routing UK - Scandinavia - USA. It's a lengthy backtrack, but people do it.

The other significant connection possibilities are South America and Africa.

I don't get all the references to an all-J A318 in this thread. The purpose of putting the B744 on the route is to introduce FIRST Class.

Rgds
Flying around India
 
photoshooter
Posts: 410
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:12 pm

RE: BA To Start 747 Service To Moscow

Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:05 pm

Quoting abrown532 (Reply 22):
should it not make more sense to use a BA A318 and operate from DME to LCY? What does everyone else think?

Sounds like a good idea... cheaper then sending a B744...


Niek  
'A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.' - Winston Churchill
 
sandyb123
Posts: 961
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RE: BA To Start 747 Service To Moscow

Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:11 pm

Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 46):
I don't get all the references to an all-J A318 in this thread. The purpose of putting the B744 on the route is to introduce FIRST Class.

If there is a lot of high-yeilding premium passengers traveling from DME but the Y cabin is under utilised then it could be a market for an all premium service, in addition to the current offering? It could include first, I think I was referring to the concept rather than the current product.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 3):
Yes they will begin to deploy the 747 to DME and upgrading the 767 to the long haul 767s. They are doing this to offer a better product.

Are the international 767s upgraded to the new J product. Will the 3-class aircraft get the new First?

Sandyb123
Member of the mile high club
 
nicktt
Posts: 14
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RE: BA To Start 747 Service To Moscow

Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:24 pm

http://www.bsr-russia.com/en/airline...nnounce-first-class-to-moscow.html

I'm booked on at 747 BA service to DME in F at the end of april, it is the early morning 08:50 flight.

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