HKG212
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:50 pm

RE: New AA Biz Class On The 773

Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:18 pm

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 11):
I am happy that they did not go the cheap route (see Delta) with the detailing on the shell. This shell is more Cathay-like with the wings at the headrest and the metal trim.

The CX shell has one truly terrible feature which unfortunately AA seems to have copied -- the "wing" mean there is a deep "cut" in the seat's shell on the aisle side. This makes for a truly uncomfortable feeling of exposure when the seat is in the lie-flat position, as your head is directly exposed to the aisle. I haven't tried the US Airways seat but it looks like they don't have the same problem; the shell is complete and offers some head privacy in the full-flat position.

Has anyone at AA actually tried sleeping on the CX seat on a long-haul flight, with air blowing on your head with every passing passenger going to the bathroom?

Quoting LONGisland89 (Reply 28):
So, Cathay Pacific rolls out it's new 777 Business product and gets loads of praise from all over.

Not from me. I'd frakly rather fly the existing angled AA seats than these new CX seats, which lack any sense of privacy.
 
44k
Posts: 174
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:07 pm

RE: New AA Biz Class On The 773

Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:19 am

Quoting LONGisland89 (Reply 28):
So, Cathay Pacific rolls out it's new 777 Business product and gets loads of praise from all over. Now, a little over a year later, AA plans to use the same EXACT product and then it's suggested that it's similar to Envoy and Business Elite.

Word. The 773 can't come soon enough, I'm so excited!

Quoting greggariouspdx (Reply 37):
I recently flew in F on the JFK-EZE run with a NY-based crew that was excellent.

I too, have just completed a round trip JFK-EZE-JFK in F, in fact my return flight was just yesterday. On both flights the crews were absolutely exceptional, I couldn't be much more satisfied with the service they provided. The Flagship Suite is still an amazing product on the long haul, especially coupled with the new quilt for sleeping and pyjamas. Some of the best flights I ever had!
 
ldvaviation
Posts: 1249
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:21 pm

RE: New AA Biz Class On The 773

Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:14 am

Quoting hkg212 (Reply 50):
The CX shell has one truly terrible feature which unfortunately AA seems to have copied -- the "wing" mean there is a deep "cut" in the seat's shell on the aisle side. This makes for a truly uncomfortable feeling of exposure when the seat is in the lie-flat position, as your head is directly exposed to the aisle.

Not sure I agree with your observation. The exposure is not much more significant than it would be on the US Airways seat with armrest down.

And, though the Delta seat looks like it will provide a few more inches of coverage with the armrest down, the trade off is an otherwise cheaply-outfitted seat.

I don't know who worked with Delta to customize the design. It looks so much like the basic seat that they might have done all the work in house.

Both Cathay and US worked with JPA Design. Visit JPA's website and you can read in their own words just how much attention to detail there is in the Cathay seat versus the US seat. This attention to detail will also be in evidence in the AA seat, as it seems from reports elsewhere that AA obtained Cathay's permission to use the exact same design.

[Edited 2012-01-28 17:52:53]
 
cx828
Posts: 105
Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 9:21 pm

RE: New AA Biz Class On The 773

Sun Jan 29, 2012 4:19 am

the CX J class design belongs to JPA design or CX??? AA need to get permission to se that design??
 
5MillionMiler
Posts: 88
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:35 am

RE: New AA Biz Class On The 773

Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:03 am

I think this interior looks great. Really looking forward to trying AA's 77W.

It is a shame that AA is a carrier that a lot of a.net people jump on and slag off as not being able to do anything right. I have had many more positive experiences than negative with them (with the exception of arrivals into MIA... their operation there has always been consistently bad from my experiences, which were frequent).

These new birds will be very welcome on GRU, LHR and NRT flights... would be nice to open up DFW-HKG. Someone needs to, either AA or CX. Probably better for CX given finances available to launch new markets.

Wonder if the 77W ever will do the DFW-ORD positioning flight once there is a fleet of them.
 
HKG212
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:50 pm

RE: New AA Biz Class On The 773

Sun Jan 29, 2012 6:05 am

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 52):
Not sure I agree with your observation. The exposure is not much more significant than it would be on the US Airways seat with armrest down.

The armrest is down in the lie-flat position on CX as well. As I have said I can't comment on the US seat, not having experienced it, but having experienced the CX seat numerous times (not sure how many of the praisers here have!) I can tell you confidently that it offers very poor privacy in the sleep position.

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 52):
And, though the Delta seat looks like it will provide a few more inches of coverage with the armrest down, the trade off is an otherwise cheaply-outfitted seat.

That's my whole point -- there should not be a trade-off! CX and AA could have opted to simply keep the shell whole. I have a feeling this has something to do with easier service access in the upright position, or, worse, just a design flourish.

Not too late for AA to change it I hope!
 
greggariouspdx
Posts: 105
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:22 am

RE: New AA Biz Class On The 773

Sun Jan 29, 2012 6:30 am

Quoting flyfree727 (Reply 49):
Per AA f/a in flight manual

Liquor may not be sold OR SERVED in the following stations while on the ground, though liquor may be served in flight to and from these stations:

BDL TUL JAC ICT MCI STL OKC

for TEXAS: Liquor may not be sold or served on the ground prior to noon on Sundays and between Monday through Saturday between midnight and 0700. HOWEVER, if the flight is operating WITHIN the state of Texas, Liquor may be served/sold.

Blue laws, state laws, federal laws, whatever, this is AA policy.

I have refrained from posting on a.netters for quiet some time, however, sometime due to the blatent MISinformation posted on here I feel the need....

How recent is this manual ? I have flown out of every one of the airports listed above on AA and have been served liquor on the ground with no incident, except for one time in TUL. But this happened several times at ORD. I have had some great service from ORD-based crews, but more often than not they seem surly and uninterested.
 
ldvaviation
Posts: 1249
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:21 pm

RE: New AA Biz Class On The 773

Sun Jan 29, 2012 6:27 pm

Quoting cx828 (Reply 53):
the CX J class design belongs to JPA design or CX??? AA need to get permission to se that design??

It arguably belongs to CX. In discussing the seat, JPA specifically states that certain features were developed specifically for the Cathay seat and in consultation with Cathay's own design team.

Could another airline implement these design features without permission? I don't know the answer to that question. In AA's case, I think it was wise of them ask a oneworld partner before using the same design elements.

Quoting hkg212 (Reply 55):
The armrest is down in the lie-flat position on CX as well. As I have said I can't comment on the US seat, not having experienced it, but having experienced the CX seat numerous times (not sure how many of the praisers here have!) I can tell you confidently that it offers very poor privacy in the sleep position.

I guess that just doesn't bother me as much as it does you. Plus, I prefer to keep the armrest up in the bed position.

Quoting hkg212 (Reply 55):
That's my whole point -- there should not be a trade-off! CX and AA could have opted to simply keep the shell whole. I have a feeling this has something to do with easier service access in the upright position, or, worse, just a design flourish.

Not too late for AA to change it I hope!

Well, I like the design flourish, if that is all it is. JPA claims that Cathay wanted a seat that could pass for a piece of furniture in a high-end residential setting. JPA's own design philosophy has been to make airline seats look more like furniture.
 
HKG212
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:50 pm

RE: New AA Biz Class On The 773

Sun Jan 29, 2012 8:46 pm

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 57):
Well, I like the design flourish, if that is all it is. JPA claims that Cathay wanted a seat that could pass for a piece of furniture in a high-end residential setting. JPA's own design philosophy has been to make airline seats look more like furniture.

The "wing" design must have been inspired by the Egg Chair, an Arne Jacobsen classic which is meant for lounging, not sleeping. As an architect I'm all for good-looking furniture, but to sacrifice comfort and privacy for aesthetic reasons, especially on a long-haul business class seat you are supposed to sleep on, is absurd. Not sure why anyone should be so sanguine about it. Imagine your bed at home having "design flourishes" which would compromise your sleep comfort.

Again, it's hardly that it's either-or. You can have great-looking seats which give great comfort too.

Not to mention, CX has a very poor cabin design track record, what with loads of faux wood trim and that awful aqua color. AA has a much better starting point with a gray-blue-red pallette.
 
ldvaviation
Posts: 1249
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:21 pm

RE: New AA Biz Class On The 773

Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:39 pm

Quoting HKG212 (Reply 58):
The "wing" design must have been inspired by the Egg Chair, an Arne Jacobsen classic which is meant for lounging, not sleeping. As an architect I'm all for good-looking furniture, but to sacrifice comfort and privacy for aesthetic reasons, especially on a long-haul business class seat you are supposed to sleep on, is absurd. Not sure why anyone should be so sanguine about it. Imagine your bed at home having "design flourishes" which would compromise your sleep comfort.

Again, it's hardly that it's either-or. You can have great-looking seats which give great comfort too.

Not to mention, CX has a very poor cabin design track record, what with loads of faux wood trim and that awful aqua color. AA has a much better starting point with a gray-blue-red pallette.

The problem is that there are so few things you can change about the seat to make it distinctive after the concept is established. All the the pod seats start out as a box, not furniture. So, to make it original you will always be cutting something out of a square or adding something to the square, if that makes sense.

Cathay's way has never been to over-embelish (to add something to the square). Yeah, I know they persist on using that aqua color, but it is the color of the brand.

One more thing to add. According to the the designers (JPA), finding a place for the passenger's feet was more of a concern. Their interviews with passengers had led them to believe that one of the significant issues with Cathay's other lie-flat business seat was that passengers did not like to sleep with their feet exposed (to the aisle). They seem to have fully addressed that issue. And, while they seem in your eyes to have created a new one by their design flourish, they may not have thought that was as big of a problem because the seat offers a convenient solution to that, the capability in the bed position to raise the armrest.
 
HKG212
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:50 pm

RE: New AA Biz Class On The 773

Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:15 am

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 59):
Cathay's way has never been to over-embelish (to add something to the square).

This is debatable. There have been all sorts of unnecessary curves and trim in their cabin designs, although I agree not to the degree you see in, say, EK.

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 59):
Their interviews with passengers had led them to believe that one of the significant issues with Cathay's other lie-flat business seat was that passengers did not like to sleep with their feet exposed (to the aisle). They seem to have fully addressed that issue.

There were many, many problems with that seat, mostly that there was no elbow or storage space, which is why they were commonly known as "the coffins". Many other airlines have followed the herringbone pattern more successfully because they were a little wider and the designers paid more attention to ergonomics. I don't disagree with the foot location issue, and I hardly advocate the claustrophobic head position in the herringbone seats (not to mention the lack of window access). But...

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 59):
And, while they seem in your eyes to have created a new one by their design flourish, they may not have thought that was as big of a problem because the seat offers a convenient solution to that, the capability in the bed position to raise the armrest.

The armrest is not meant to be a privacy partition; lowering it is supposed to give you necessary extra shoulder space. Even if you keep it up the top of your head is still widely exposed to light and air movement.

I'll say it again: there is absolutley nothing in that "cut" that serves any purpose in my mind other than a design flourish. AA can just do away with it, or even find a unique solution which even improves on the privacy issue.

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