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umit
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2012

Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:19 am

Quoting tcm (Reply 98):

hedging is usually expensive specially in TL . So many companies do not hedge themselves fully . İf TK had hedged themselves they would have reduced the loss of 2011 but they might have lost the nice FX profits of previous years ...
 
tcm
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2012

Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:23 am

Quoting umit (Reply 100):
hedging is usually expensive specially in TL . So many companies do not hedge themselves fully . İf TK had hedged themselves they would have reduced the loss of 2011 but they might have lost the nice FX profits of previous years ...

Thanks Umit; I guess we will still discuss the 2011 numbers when more information will be available.
 
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OA260
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2012

Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:48 am

Quoting TK787 (Reply 80):
Happy Anniversary TK!
1st international flight on Feb 13th, 1947, ESB-IST-ATH.

Interesting article and photo in Skylife from when it was the 60th Anniversary :

Turkish Airlines, or the State Airlines as it was called in those days, is celebrating the 60th anniversary of its first flight abroad, made in February 1947 from Ankara via Istanbul to Athens under the then-director Osman Nuri Baykal.

http://www.turkishairlines.com/en-in...ersary-of-first-flight-abroad.aspx
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2012

Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:19 pm

Quoting tcm (Reply 97):
I know TK is growing and investing heavily and a loss was to be expected, but these numbers are disturbing.

I wasn't expecting this high!
Let's be realistic. EK, LH are also growing and investing.
Is it as simple as putting the blame on;
-Not expecting the oil prices to go up
-TL loosing value
-Arab spring
-Capacity increase,
What happen to that genius management that was able to "take advantage" of the economic downturn in the recent years, that made TK grow while others were sending planes to the dessert?
 
tcm
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2012

Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:08 pm

Quoting TK787 (Reply 103):
What happen to that genius management that was able to "take advantage" of the economic downturn in the recent years, that made TK grow while others were sending planes to the dessert?

Some went over to QR. The growth achieved over the last years is still very impressive, TK is still achieving double digit traffic growth. A more mature analysis would be asking at what cost this has been achieved. It seems to me that with the full 2011 results that TK has a problem in managing it's expansion, and for that there should be consequences. But I think it is still to early to celebrate a TK failure. That is why I believe that 2012 is going to be a decisive year. If the tide does not turn; we'll banish the management to the desert  
 
tcm
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2012

Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:19 pm

BTW, the consolidated results that will be reported to the Capital Board (SPK) should give us a better picture.
 
TK748
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2012

Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:53 pm

European Union member countries authorized the European Commission to sign a horizontal civil aviation agreement with Turkey.

Source: http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/eu-...pageID=238&nID=13723&NewsCatID=351

Aggreement: http://register.consilium.europa.eu/pdf/en/11/st18/st18268.en11.pdf

I think is deserves discussion,
Pros and Cons?
- EU LCCs will not be refused any more.
- Pegasus, Atlas and Onur may benefit.
- It seems that no need for fear of CY flights,
- Unlike EU - US agreement, there is no article on Ownership and Control of airlines between parties. I was wishing an article to facilitate TK's acquisition of LO. Agreement having regard the "Council Regulation (EEC) No 2407/92 of 23 July 1992 on licensing of air carriers."
- Some people says, Turkey's membership in EASA is now possible .

When reviewing the agreement I noticed that position of XQ and her German subsidiary XG is not clear. They are not owned or controlled by Turkish or German solely.
Refusal, revocation, suspension or limitation on XQ flights between Turkey and EU states is possible (of course not in practice but there is possibility). Similar thing may happen for XG flights between EU states and Horizontal Agreement Signed third countries (Egypt etc.).

[Edited 2012-02-15 10:31:56]
 
umit
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2012

Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:11 pm

Many Arab/Golf countries have fixed exchange rates therefore they would not have exchange losses . Also they have been using (at least partly) cheaper petrol . Europen countries uses euro so if they buy airbus their liabilities always stays the same but if they buy boeing then they have exposure against dollars.Since euro lost some value against dollar in 2011 they must have some exchange losses as well . But again some portion of their profits must have came from the huge depreciation of the dollar against euro in recent years.But again , I am not TK employees or relates to them in any way. Iam just trying to make reasonable comments of FX side of the balance sheet.
 
tcm
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2012

Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:01 pm

Quoting umit (Reply 107):
FX side of the balance sheet.

The foreign exchange issue is only one part of the story. To make an analogy, TK is a a/c taking off trying to reach cruising altitude. This involves investments (new a/c, crew, training, marketing to establish a brand etc.) and any investment will need a certain timeframe to generate profits. Looking at the increased frequencies and improving loads; I think that TK will be able to turn the tide this year. At the same time, I still believe that TK should have foreseen foreign exchange volatility and should have at least hedge these risks to a certain extent.

Now, the consolidated results that will be published next month will still show a loss of about 600-700 million TL for 2011. Unless we see the signs of a turnaround in the 1st quarter results; there should be consequences.

[Edited 2012-02-15 12:05:49]
 
leftyboarder
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2012

Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:23 pm

I wonder what kind of consequences we might see. If TK decides to do some cost cutting that results in reduced services levels, I bet that will not fare well and EK and EY and QR will see this as an opportunity to take back the business passengers. So, I think they should stick with the current game plan and hope that loads pick up, yields improve and crisis doesn't last long. I too believe that this year - with already 4 pts improvement in LF - we will see better numbers.

However, this might mean putting the LOT plans on hold.
 
tcm
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2012

Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:45 pm

Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 109):

I wonder what kind of consequences we might see. If TK decides to do some cost cutting that results in reduced services levels, I bet that will not fare well and EK and EY and QR will see this as an opportunity to take back the business passengers. So, I think they should stick with the current game plan and hope that loads pick up, yields improve and crisis doesn't last long. I too believe that this year - with already 4 pts improvement in LF - we will see better numbers.

However, this might mean putting the LOT plans on hold.


AFAIK, TK is competitive in regard to its operating costs. I also think cost cutting that results in reduced service levels is not the answer. By consequences, I mean a shake up of top management. BTW, I believe that the diverse network of TK will turn out to be a very good insulator to the crisis in Europe.

[Edited 2012-02-15 13:13:23]
 
umit
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2012

Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:52 pm

Quoting tcm (Reply 108):

I agree .. I am only looking at one side of the picture. Other sides , I am not a sector specialist. But, unless there is a fraud or kind of wrong doing involved, no reasonable board of company in the world would change the managemant over one year's results . So , we should see at least another year results .
 
Turkish350XWB
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2012

Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:50 pm

This losses did not fall from the sky. This is been known by the management for months. But what makes me wonder is the plans of investing into a loss making airline like LOT. Before trying to cure another airline, the main airline has to be healty. Otherwise this will never work.

Quoting TK787 (Reply 103):
What happen to that genius management that was able to "take advantage" of the economic downturn in the recent years, that made TK grow while others were sending planes to the dessert?

This is very true. Bad times are a better indicator of a management's skills. Growth in terms of passengers and fleet is not the only dimension of an airline.
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2012

Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:59 am

Quoting tcm (Reply 104):
But I think it is still to early to celebrate a TK failure. That is why I believe that 2012 is going to be a decisive year.

I agree.
Maybe the numbers are not that bad and hope profits will return;
but let's not forget, the future is not any rosier..
-EU still struggling
-Who knows what is going to happen to TL/$
-Syria, Iran issues are not getting any better, oil is not getting any cheaper.
and as usual; Full Planes, multiple frequencies don't necessarily point to profits.
 
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ankaraflyjet
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2012

Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:21 pm

TK should improve its association with * Alliance carriers in North America. First of all there should be a codeshare of a North American operator on all TK flights in order to attract more US executives.

Secondly, TK should enter into a codeshare deal with AC for Toronot flights as well as YVR, YYC etc. It is impossible to get a competitive price for a ticket from Turkey to any destination in Canada unless you fly to Toronto. The other markets in Canada is dominated by LH and BA in particular. TK should try to find a solution to overcome this as there is a lot of demand for TK in this market.

Third is about TK website, they should be able to offer award tickets by * Alliance partner airlines on line as well. For instance BA offers this as One World partner of course with higher miles being spent for such flights compared to flights with its own metal. However, the way it is currenly, it is very difficult to get an award ticket from Miles and Smiles for other * Alliance airlines.
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2012

Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:59 pm

On a different note, skyliners-aviation.de reports that TC-TUR, the government 332 is flown to SKF, for VIP cabin configuration yesterday.
 
ASA
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2012

Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:19 pm

My wish has been granted!   

Beginning March 24, TK will have decoupled the Dhaka, Bangladesh flights from a [rather useless] stop in Karachi, Pakistan. So, now instead of the midnight IST-KHI-DAC routing ... the flights leave IST early evening and reach Dhaka early morning. GREATLY reducing time from the connections. So, instead of the 30+ hours JFK-IST-DAC routing I did in October 2011, I could soon do the same trip in 18 hours with less than 2 hours in transit ... and about 20 hours total on the way back. Amazing ... kudos to the planners!

[Note: I was checking flights options for June and ran into this by accident. And then checked each month and found that the new routing starts March 24. If any of you have seen the official release, please share. Thanks!]

Hope this is the sign of loads picking up and future daily flights! 

Here are new flight times ...

TK712 IST1820 - DAC0500 333 1457
TK713 DAC0620 - IST1155 333 1256

[Edited 2012-02-16 09:27:20]
 
Turkish350XWB
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2012

Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:50 pm

Quoting ASA (Reply 116):

Arrival time to IST makes miss all North American destinations (except JFK at 5pm). The same problem will appear with flights to Indian destinations like Kalkutta. How does connection work than?
 
TurkishWings
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2012

Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:34 pm

Quoting Turkish350XWB (Reply 117):

Arrival time to IST makes miss all North American destinations (except JFK at 5pm). The same problem will appear with flights to Indian destinations like Kalkutta. How does connection work than?

As of the new summer schedule, TK 1 departure moves to 13:05. ASA is only interested in JFK and this works perfectly for him...
Coffee - Tea or Me?
 
ASA
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2012

Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:18 pm

Quoting Turkish350XWB (Reply 117):
Arrival time to IST makes miss all North American destinations (except JFK at 5pm). The same problem will appear with flights to Indian destinations like Kalkutta. How does connection work than?

Not sure if I'm looking at it wrong, but IAD works with about 2 hours of transit time too. LAX and ORD flights have less than two though ... not sure if such short transit times will work.
 
Turkish350XWB
Posts: 489
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2012

Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:22 pm

Quoting TurkishWings (Reply 118):

True. AND i just checked the other destinations and ORD, LAX, IAD and YYZ also depart around 13 hours. Just perfect! They prepare the North American departures to fit new destination on the indian subcontinent.
 
stylo777
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2012

Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:21 am

Quoting ankaraflyjet (Reply 114):

Very unlikely to be happen with A++ jointventure in place. Nobody is going to share his piece of the cake with TK, especially on those milk-run routes.
 
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ankaraflyjet
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2012

Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:12 pm

Quoting stylo777 (Reply 121):

So if AC cannot enter into a code-share with TK because of their situation with LH, TK should try to find other ways of increasing its presence in Canada. Options are either to try to cut a deal with WS or another Canadian carrier OR to introduce other destinations in Canada (i.e. Montreal and Vancouver) but that will need the exisitng air service agreement to be ammended. Vancouver has a lot of potential for TK due to its being second largest migrant destination in Canada with many Iranians and Asians. Montreal also will provide good results for TK. The last option would be for TK to try to expand its codeshare with UA to include flights to Vancouver, Montreal, Calgary etc.
 
stylo777
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2012

Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:36 pm

Quoting ankaraflyjet (Reply 122):
So if AC cannot enter into a code-share with TK because of their situation with LH

wrong, they can enter a code-share agreement which is in no way related to their JV with LH and UA, but they wouldn't if they don't see any advantages. you mentioned it yourself, such a code-share would benefit TK much more than AC at the moment.
A codeshare with UA includes a stop-over in the USA. very unpopular for Turkish and other citizen due to visa restrictions and also the hassle of transfering via any port in the US. as you know, there are no intl-to-intl transfer facilities and possibilities. therefore, many passenger would prefer a connection anywhere in Europe or via their only port currently served YYZ.
other option (and currently most popular one) is to bring the passengers to FRA/MUC to connect to LH's Canada longhaul network  

quite difficult for TK to expand their presence within the Canadian market other given circustamces; however, the Canadian bileterals even make it difficult for others such as EK, EY, etc...
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2012

Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:12 pm

According to boeing-test-flights.blogspot.com TC-JYC, TK's 3rd 739ER, had its first flight yesterday, 2/16/2012.
Let's see if this is going to take 5 months to retrofit?
 
ASA
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2012

Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:32 am

Quoting Turkish350XWB (Reply 120):
True. AND i just checked the other destinations and ORD, LAX, IAD and YYZ also depart around 13 hours. Just perfect! They prepare the North American departures to fit new destination on the indian subcontinent

That is actually a very good sign. TK is planning head-on competition with EK, EY, QR on these routes. For India, there are quite a few choices, but for Bangladesh, there are only the GCC airlines. So TK, with the fast transit times, could be a very viable (and good service too!) alternative for North America and Europe traffic.
 
flyyul
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2012

Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:36 pm

Quoting ankaraflyjet (Reply 122):
So if AC cannot enter into a code-share with TK because of their situation with LH, TK should try to find other ways of increasing its presence in Canada. Options are either to try to cut a deal with WS or another Canadian carrier OR to introduce other destinations in Canada (i.e. Montreal and Vancouver) but that will need the exisitng air service agreement to be ammended. Vancouver has a lot of potential for TK due to its being second largest migrant destination in Canada with many Iranians and Asians. Montreal also will provide good results for TK. The last option would be for TK to try to expand its codeshare with UA to include flights to Vancouver, Montreal, Calgary etc.

I think TK is more interested in Montreal (YUL) given the large number of Lebanese, Romanian, Iranian, Egyptian, Greek, Syrian, North African communities etc. TK doesn't have landing permission for Montreal yet.
 
tk1244
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2012

Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:47 pm

In an other topic, I came across this reply:

Quoting oldeuropean (Reply 26):
Until the 80th (and perhaps also in the 90th), TK was famous for pax standing and sitting in the aisle, on flights from Germany to Turkey in the summer time. These planes also were overloaded with excess baggage.

I was wondering, how true is this comment?
"The future is in the skies. For any nation that cannot defend its skies will never be confident of its future." Atatürk
 
bahadir
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2012

Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:43 pm

Quoting TK787 (Reply 124):

According to boeing-test-flights.blogspot.com TC-JYC, TK's 3rd 739ER, had its first flight yesterday, 2/16/2012.
Let's see if this is going to take 5 months to retrofit?

i can confirm, I was in the office and watching it.. There is a newly painted Pegasus 737 in Renton too

Quoting TK1244 (Reply 127):

Quoting oldeuropean (Reply 26):
Until the 80th (and perhaps also in the 90th), TK was famous for pax standing and sitting in the aisle, on flights from Germany to Turkey in the summer time. These planes also were overloaded with excess baggage.

I was wondering, how true is this comment?

I don't know about the TK but some charter airlines had a name for this : 'biyikli infant' (= infant with a mustache)  
If you catch my drift  
Earthbound misfit I
 
northstar80
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2012

Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:20 pm

Quoting TK1244 (Reply 127):
Quoting oldeuropean (Reply 26):
Until the 80th (and perhaps also in the 90th), TK was famous for pax standing and sitting in the aisle, on flights from Germany to Turkey in the summer time. These planes also were overloaded with excess baggage.

I was wondering, how true is this comment?

as much as I love TK.. Cant say it is totally wrong. A friend of mine was seated on the jumpseat during the course of a 12 hour flight, back around the 2000s.
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2012

Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:11 pm

 
tk1244
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2012

Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:11 am

Quoting bahadir (Reply 128):
I don't know about the TK but some charter airlines had a name for this : 'biyikli infant' (= infant with a mustache)
If you catch my drift
Quoting Northstar80 (Reply 129):
as much as I love TK.. Cant say it is totally wrong. A friend of mine was seated on the jumpseat during the course of a 12 hour flight, back around the 2000s.

Thank you for your replies guys.
"The future is in the skies. For any nation that cannot defend its skies will never be confident of its future." Atatürk
 
tcm
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2012

Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:16 am

Well, it's finally happening. UA to start daily EWR-IST from July 2nd.

See: http://www.airkule.com/default.asp?page=haber&id=11132 (Turkish)
 
tozbek
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2012

Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:45 am

United starting New York Newark-Istanbul Ataturk flights on July 2nd with Boeing 767-300ER's daily.
 
TK748
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2012

Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:20 pm

Good analysis of LOT's candidates by former senior analyst of LOT;

Source: http://biznes.onet.pl/dla-kogo-lot,18494,5033110,1,news-detal (Polish Only)

Candidates; Air China, AF / KLM, BA / IB, Lufthansa and TK

Only the conclusion text (google translation);
"It is concluded that the optimum would be an alliance with Turkish Airlines, with which it will be much easier to get along in daily cooperation with the Chinese than from Beijing. Next, can be equated BA / IB and the Lufthansa Group, and the last position the AF / KLM."
 
stylo777
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2012

Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:39 pm

here are the flighttimes:

UA 904 D EWR A IST 1927 1220+1 0 01JUL12 26OCT12 763 9:53
UA 905 D IST EWR A 1355 1802 0 02JUL12 27OCT12 763 11:07
 
Avianca
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2012

Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:10 am

Quoting tcm (Reply 87):
so you'll see more Turcos oming your way my friend

well they would be very welcomed, also in SouthAmerica we have already a nice Turkish community.
Also I am very familar to them as my roots are german and I have a lot of Turkish friends!
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
TK773ER
Posts: 188
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2012

Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:54 am

I know there was talk of this but it does sound like TK really wanting to expand into Indian market here is the link http://www.topnews.in/turkish-airlines-fly-more-indian-cities-2359742 I just wonder when and do they have enough WB birds to tackle all these cities ?
 
TK773ER
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2012

Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:16 am

Dhaka also going direct great news for Bangladesh http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/news-details.php?nid=223361 And like i said above is there more A330 or 777 frames coming from somewhere that no one knows about ?
 
ASA
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2012

Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:45 pm

Quoting TK773ER (Reply 138):
Dhaka also going direct great news for Bangladesh http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/news-details.php?nid=223361 And like i said above is there more A330 or 777 frames coming from somewhere that no one knows about

Great news, indeed! I flew the route via KHI in Oct 2011 - can't wait to fly it non-stop!

Hopefully, this direct flight will generate a lot of interest in Bangladesh. Right now, EK rules the roost with 17 DAC-DXB weekly flights and QR with 11 DAC-DOH weekly flights. I think TK will eventually be able to get a large share of the North America and Europe bound traffic. For Europe, there is simply no competition with the large number of destinations served by TK. With the recent shift in TK North America flights, they are going to be very competitive as well for both India and Bangladesh.

[Edited 2012-02-22 06:46:53]
 
TK773ER
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2012

Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:52 am

As of next month Stockholm going three times daily http://www.arlanda.se/en/Information...es-between-Stockholm-and-Istanbul/ TK must have good traffic on this route...
 
TK773ER
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2012

Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:20 am

Does anyone here know how and why this Atlasjet ended up in my hometown ? https://www.airliners.net/photo/2055428/M/ I mean i know it was helping out with stranded passengers in Phuket after the collapse of Air Australia anyway nice to see a Airline from Turkey down under cant wait for TK one day fingers cross ?
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2012

Sat Feb 25, 2012 1:55 pm

It has already been 3 years to date since the TK AMS crash.
That was a terrible day to remember, to see the tail of a broken TK bird on CNN, first thing in the morning.
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2012

Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:32 pm

TK 1 took the usual Northerly route today, TK 11 is coming from the South adding another 300sm to the route.
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/THY11
 
Web
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2012

Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:48 pm

TK announced IST-HRK today via their RSS news feed. I cannot get the link to work, though.
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2012

Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:01 pm

Quoting Web (Reply 144):

Planned for some time now, find it here:
http://airlineroute.net/2012/02/26/tk-hrk-s12
 
TK748
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2012

Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:35 pm

Twice a week, weak startup. Does PC force TK to weak start?
Good movement before the UEFA Euro 2012 in June, Kharkiv is one of four Ukrainian host cities.
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Aviation February 2012

Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:13 pm

Please continue here:
Turkish Aviation March 2012 (by TK787 Feb 29 2012 in Civil Aviation)

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