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1337Delta764
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WN Shrinking In ABQ - LBB, MAF, MCO Gone August 12

Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:26 am

I have never seen WN make this many cuts in ABQ, considering that much of the Albuquerque market is loyal to WN. LBB, MAF, and MCO are gone on August 12.

MCO seems to be a surprise, since MCO is a popular tourist destination, and WN I think has operated that route for many years.

Perhaps this kills the chances of WN starting ATL-ABQ.
 
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YNGguins
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RE: WN Shrinking In ABQ - LBB, MAF, MCO Gone August 12

Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:30 am

WN is leaving MCO? News to me lol.
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foxecho
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RE: WN Shrinking In ABQ - LBB, MAF, MCO Gone August 12

Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:32 am

Sounds like the OP refers to the ABQ MCO route

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dbo861
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RE: WN Shrinking In ABQ - LBB, MAF, MCO Gone August 12

Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:33 am

Quoting YNGguins (Reply 1):
WN is leaving MCO? News to me lol.

Just ABQ-MCO. The entire station isn't closing.
 
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YNGguins
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RE: WN Shrinking In ABQ - LBB, MAF, MCO Gone August 12

Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:35 am

Quoting dbo861 (Reply 3):
Just ABQ-MCO. The entire station isn't closing.

I was going to say, that would be asinine! Wish the topic would have been better labeled. But I should have just used some common sense!
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wedgetail737
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RE: WN Shrinking In ABQ - LBB, MAF, MCO Gone August 12

Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:39 am

Quoting foxecho (Reply 2):
Sounds like the OP refers to the ABQ MCO route

That's too bad. ABQ is very easy connection from some east to some west, avoiding some of the larger "hubs" like MDW and PHX.
 
USAirALB
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RE: WN Shrinking In ABQ - LBB, MAF, MCO Gone August 12

Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:44 am

ABQ-MCO is very surprising. I believe they flew that route since the late 1990s. They also flew ABQ-TPA at one point as well..

Maybe it will become seasonal, but I'm not familiar with the seasonal market in ABQ.
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mke717spotter
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RE: WN Shrinking In ABQ - LBB, MAF, MCO Gone August 12

Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:56 am

Is ABQ-TUS next for the chopping block?
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IADLHR
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RE: WN Shrinking In ABQ - LBB, MAF, MCO Gone August 12

Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:09 am

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 6):
ABQ-MCO is very surprising. I believe they flew that route since the late 1990s. They also flew ABQ-TPA at one point as well..

I have hard that ABQ-MCO will become seasonal instead of year round. We may know , for sure, in a few months when the winter schedule starts to open up for reservations.
 
MSPNWA
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RE: WN Shrinking In ABQ - LBB, MAF, MCO Gone August 12

Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:11 am

The ABQ cuts have surprised me too. MSO is obviously a big one. I know it's a long route, but still, it's MCO-ABQ on WN. That's their territory on both ends.
 
ABQ747
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RE: WN Shrinking In ABQ - LBB, MAF, MCO Gone August 12

Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:27 am

WN used to have about 65 daily departures from ABQ. I wonder how many there are now?
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: WN Shrinking In ABQ - LBB, MAF, MCO Gone August 12

Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:32 am

I think its nothing against ABQ they are just focusing all laser beams on DEN. Trying to get more connections thru there and getting the other cities in the area routes to survive almost exclusively on O&D
 
atrude777
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RE: WN Shrinking In ABQ - LBB, MAF, MCO Gone August 12

Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:36 am

Quoting ABQ747 (Reply 10):
WN used to have about 65 daily departures from ABQ. I wonder how many there are now?

It's at 52 daily not including the recent cuts.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
Albuquerque market is loyal to WN.

Loyal or not...if it's not going to make money for SWA it will be dropped. Not to say WN doesn't appreciate loyalty, but it doesn't pay the bills either.

Alex
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point2point
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RE: WN Shrinking In ABQ - LBB, MAF, MCO Gone August 12

Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:19 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
LBB, MAF,

Looking at the T-100s 2011 Q1, there is about 27 O&D pax here with MAF, and a whole 17 with LBB. I think that that pretty much says it all, and with WN focusing on O&D, well.....

However, there were 179 with MCO, and this one is a maybe..... but since WN likes to pride itself on being point-to-point when differentiating itself from the other carriers, well, then a bit of a surprise. Maybe it will operate seasonally, and it could be 5X weekly or so.......
 
lhpdx
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RE: WN Shrinking In ABQ - LBB, MAF, MCO Gone August 12

Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:38 am

Does Southwest plan to reinstate the ABQ-PDX route?
 
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SANFan
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RE: WN Shrinking In ABQ - LBB, MAF, MCO Gone August 12

Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:19 am

Quoting point2point (Reply 13):
Looking at the T-100s 2011 Q1, there is about 27 O&D pax here with MAF, and a whole 17 with LBB. I think that that pretty much says it all, and with WN focusing on O&D, well.....

Those numbers beg the question why WN waited until August of 2012 to cut those routes? LBB is 17 TL pax, which translates to about 8 PDEW! There must have been other factors involved such as pax volume on other segments of these flights (before and/or after the ABQ-LBB segement) to keep these routes as long as they did.

As far as ABQ-MCO is concerned, there have apparently been other cuts in Orlando as well and due to the low-yield of most of the markets out of that city, and high fuel costs, WN is probably just trimming longer routes from there; it looks like the hubs of DEN, LAS, and PHX will soon be THE "long-hauls" from the Florida city.

There will still be lots of connecting options between ABQ and MCO (as is the case with most other WN western cities and MCO.) Possibly even including direct, no-change, 1-stop flights.

And maybe ABQ will be lucky and the route will come back "in season" -- whatever that is... Don't give up yet.

bb
 
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RE: WN Shrinking In ABQ - LBB, MAF, MCO Gone August 12

Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:48 pm

Quoting lhpdx (Reply 14):
Does Southwest plan to reinstate the ABQ-PDX route?

I wish the "Intel Rio Rancho shuttle" would come back, made an awfully convenient way for me to commute PDX-ELP and back  
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
WNCrew
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RE: WN Shrinking In ABQ - LBB, MAF, MCO Gone August 12

Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:51 pm

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 11):

I think its nothing against ABQ they are just focusing all laser beams on DEN.

It never IS personal... but it's sort of odd how people react like it is. WN isn't taking candy from anyone's children, they're trying to make MONEY.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
KELPkid
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RE: WN Shrinking In ABQ - LBB, MAF, MCO Gone August 12

Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:54 pm

Quoting WNCrew (Reply 17):
It never IS personal... but it's sort of odd how people react like it is. WN isn't taking candy from anyone's children, they're trying to make MONEY.

It's also not as if the routes are gone, you just have to make CONNECTIONS now, folks   Not such a big deal on WN...and on a longer route like MCO, it isn't going to add much time to the trip (provided the connection is sensibly located geographically...).
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bcoz
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RE: WN Shrinking In ABQ - LBB, MAF, MCO Gone August 12

Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:58 pm

I flew MDW-ABQ-LBB last week. The ABQ-LBB segment had a load factor of maybe 40% (I realize the LF isn't everything). The one thing I do think it does is focus any west coast WN LBB connecting traffic basically on to one flight through LAS. They aren't adding DEN.

bcoz
 
Silver1SWA
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RE: WN Shrinking In ABQ - LBB, MAF, MCO Gone August 12

Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:21 pm

Ouch on the ABQ-MCO, I travel to MCO a few times a year and ABQ was one of the more convenient stops from SAN.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
threeifbyair
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RE: WN Shrinking In ABQ - LBB, MAF, MCO Gone August 12

Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:45 pm

I do feel bad for the people who did fly ABQ-LBB/MAF, since the alternatives are a long drive (5h30m to LBB, 7h15m to MAF) or a rather roundabout connection that is probably more expensive.

Obviously the number of affected people is fairly low, but the difference in travel times is huge.
 
AS739BSI
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RE: WN Shrinking In ABQ - LBB, MAF, MCO Gone August 12

Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:31 pm

They are small destinations and are costing money. ABQ has been steadily shrinking. In 2007, 6,668,706 passengers passed through ABQ. Now that is down to 5,801,641. Aircraft operations are also down by around 50,000 from 2006. The former NW and CO counters are blank and the airport could easily handle more traffic. I am not sure if this is due to yield management or demand just not being there. WN cutting LBB/MAF is probably a smart move. I wonder if in 2014, LBB and MAF will be cut completely. I think once FLs 717s are integrated in, they will probably start flying those routes.
 
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SANFan
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RE: WN Shrinking In ABQ - LBB, MAF, MCO Gone August 12

Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:54 am

Quoting AS739BSI (Reply 22):
ABQ has been steadily shrinking. In 2007, 6,668,706 passengers passed through ABQ. Now that is down to 5,801,641. Aircraft operations are also down by around 50,000 from 2006. The former NW and CO counters are blank and the airport could easily handle more traffic. I am not sure if this is due to yield management or demand just not being there

I'm sure a lot of it is due to the economy, not unlike many, many cities around the country. There just aren't as many people flying these days. And fuel prices have also forced the airlines to tighten their belts so many routes that used to be profitable aren't any more.

Hopefully the economic situation will improve this year, and in the future, and more people will fly, and flights and routes will probably return. (Depending on how out of sight fuel gets...)

bb
 
unmlobo
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RE: WN Shrinking In ABQ - LBB, MAF, MCO Gone August 12

Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:23 am

Quoting lhpdx (Reply 14):
Does Southwest plan to reinstate the ABQ-PDX route?

It was a seasonal cut, it is back on the schedule beginning later this month.
Went to school in ABQ, former airline employee. Now living in Dallas
 
Alias1024
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RE: WN Shrinking In ABQ - LBB, MAF, MCO Gone August 12

Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:39 pm

I'm shocked to see ABQ-MCO cut. That was a double daily just a few years ago. Unfortunately I don't think WN is finished cutting at ABQ. As the restrictions from the Wright amendment are lifted I see ABQ losing even more connecting traffic and seeing flights cut as a result.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
Perhaps this kills the chances of WN starting ATL-ABQ.

Or perhaps it signals the opposite. Maybe WN is planning on using the large ATL operation as a major connecting point, much as they use stations like LAS, PHX, MDW, and BWI. If that's the case, I'd think it is likely that ABQ-ATL will be added.

Quoting AS739BSI (Reply 22):
They are small destinations and are costing money. ABQ has been steadily shrinking. In 2007, 6,668,706 passengers passed through ABQ. Now that is down to 5,801,641. Aircraft operations are also down by around 50,000 from 2006. The former NW and CO counters are blank and the airport could easily handle more traffic. I am not sure if this is due to yield management or demand just not being there.

The passenger totals at ABQ were always inflated due to Southwest's use of ABQ as a connecting point from Texas to major west coast destination. IMO, tweaks to WNs business model, the buildup of the DEN operation and traffic being shifted over other connecting points is as much to blame as the economy or yield management for ABQs shrinking passenger totals.

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 12):

Quoting ABQ747 (Reply 10):
WN used to have about 65 daily departures from ABQ. I wonder how many there are now?

It's at 52 daily not including the recent cuts.

Ouch!!! ABQ used to be a pretty impressive operation back in the 90s, sitting near 70 departures a day, and playing a larger role in a much smaller company. Fuel prices and the buildup of other cities by WN has really hurt ABQ despite the strong population growth the city has seen.
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ABQopsHP
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RE: WN Shrinking In ABQ - LBB, MAF, MCO Gone August 12

Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:06 pm

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
Perhaps this kills the chances of WN starting ATL-ABQ.

I would think it to be more likely. Using ATL as a connection point for points all around the SE USA region. It would be a perfect option to run ABQ-ATL, as opposed to ABQ-MCO. You get more coverage of an area, and not depend on O&D or thin connection activity in ABQ. Plus head to head competition with DL, forcing fares lower, in some markets.

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1337Delta764
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RE: WN Shrinking In ABQ - LBB, MAF, MCO Gone August 12

Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:00 pm

Quoting ABQopsHP (Reply 26):
I would think it to be more likely. Using ATL as a connection point for points all around the SE USA region. It would be a perfect option to run ABQ-ATL, as opposed to ABQ-MCO. You get more coverage of an area, and not depend on O&D or thin connection activity in ABQ. Plus head to head competition with DL, forcing fares lower, in some markets.

Well, it has been stated that WN intends on "unwinding" ATL to focus more on O&D traffic. As far as I know, there is very little O&D between Albuquerque and Atlanta; most people who fly on DL's ABQ-ATL route are connecting passengers.
 
KELPkid
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RE: WN Shrinking In ABQ - LBB, MAF, MCO Gone August 12

Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:05 pm

Guys,

I think there's a good explination for stations like ABQ being somewhat wound down: the drawdown the Wright Ammendment. IIRC, we're coming up on when more segments to DAL can be directly ticketed....    No more need for "Texas Two-step" stops 
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SANFan
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RE: WN Shrinking In ABQ - LBB, MAF, MCO Gone August 12

Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:06 am

Quoting point2point (Reply 13):
Looking at the T-100s 2011 Q1... there were 179 with MCO, and this one is a maybe..... but since WN likes to pride itself on being point-to-point when differentiating itself from the other carriers, well, then a bit of a surprise. Maybe it will operate seasonally, and it could be 5X weekly or so.......

I did a little more checking on this route (ABQ-MCO) and the cancellation doesn't really seem too surprising to me either.

The DOT traffic figures for the last year of available reports show:
Q410: TL pax: 205 = 103 ave PDEW O&D traffic;
Q111: TL pax: 179 = 90 ave PDEW O&D traffic:
Q211: TL pax: 220 = 110 ave PDEW O&D traffic;
Q311: TL pax: 180 = 90 ave PDEW O&D traffic.

That makes the average PDEW for the year in this consistent market about 98. That, IMO, is pretty iffy as to the viability of 1 n/s a day on 135-pax aircraft.

As I mentioned earlier, in an era of high fuel prices, in a low yield market such as MCO, on a pretty long stage length flight, WN apparently doesn't think it worth the resources for nonstop service any more; as with most all of their western cities, connections will have to suffice. (Personally, unless these numbers increase significantly, I would be surprised if it returned even seasonally.)

bb
 
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SANFan
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RE: WN Shrinking In ABQ - LBB, MAF, MCO Gone August 12

Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:36 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 27):
Well, it has been stated that WN intends on "unwinding" ATL to focus more on O&D traffic. As far as I know, there is very little O&D between Albuquerque and Atlanta; most people who fly on DL's ABQ-ATL route are connecting passengers

While I was looking up stat's, here are the ones for ABQ-ATL for the 4 most recent quarters reported:
Q410: TL pax 164 = 82 ave PDEW O&D traffic;
Q111: TL pax 111 = 55 ave PDEW O&D traffic;
Q211: TL pax 174 = 87 ave PDEW O&D traffic;
Q311: TL pax 176 = 88 ave PDEW O&D traffic.

This average PDEW for the year is about 78. Plus, DL appears to operate 2 n/s per day in the market already (understandibly, as mentioned by 'Delta 764, carrying a lot of connecting traffic.) IF WN started a flight, they might also carry some connecting pax, but, well, make up your own mind on how likely it is that WN would start this nonstop...

bb

[Edited 2012-02-06 18:26:23]
 
bjorn14
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RE: WN Shrinking In ABQ - LBB, MAF, MCO Gone August 12

Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:17 am

Quoting SANFan (Reply 29):
That makes the average PDEW for the year in this consistent market about 98. That, IMO, is pretty iffy as to the viability of 1 n/s a day on 135-pax aircraft.

Maybe use FL's 717
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1337Delta764
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RE: WN Shrinking In ABQ - LBB, MAF, MCO Gone August 12

Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:28 am

Quoting SANFan (Reply 30):

This average PDEW for the year is about 78. Plus, DL appears to operate 2 n/s per day in the market already (understandibly, as mentioned by 'Delta 764, carrying a lot of connecting traffic.) IF WN started a flight, they might also carry some connecting pax, but, well, make up your own mind on how likely it is that WN would this nonstop...


That's less than the O&D numbers on ABQ-MCO. Plus, DL usually adds capacity in the spring and summer months with 757s on the route.

[Edited 2012-02-06 18:29:35]
 
kcrwflyer
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RE: WN Shrinking In ABQ - LBB, MAF, MCO Gone August 12

Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:31 am

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 31):
Maybe use FL's 717

Can't fly a 717 ABQ-MCO.

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