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leftyboarder
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TK 3rd Daily JFK

Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:05 pm

Just a couple of years after introducing its second daily flight TK is introducing a 3rd daily flight to JFK on May 28th.

The schedules are such that TK3 departs IST 7:25am early in the morning, with 11:20am arrivals. TK departs JFK at 12:50pm, arriving at 05:40am next day. The flight is to be operated by 333. This in addition to TK1-2 and TK11-12, both daily 77W flights. New flights loaded into TK system.

As a sidenote, TK announced its intention to fly to Kharkiv and Kigali on its website. Source: http://www.turkishairlines.com/tr-TR...vestor_relations/special/2012.aspx
 
MAV88
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RE: TK 3rd Daily JFK

Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:09 pm

Quoting leftyboarder (Thread starter):
Just a couple of years after introducing its second daily flight TK is introducing a 3rd daily flight to JFK on May 28th.

The schedules are such that TK3 departs IST 7:25am early in the morning, with 11:20am arrivals. TK departs JFK at 12:50pm, arriving at 05:40am next day. The flight is to be operated by 333. This in addition to TK1-2 and TK11-12, both daily 77W flights. New flights loaded into TK system.

As a sidenote, TK announced its intention to fly to Kharkiv and Kigali on its website. Source: http://www.turkishairlines.com/tr-TR....aspx

Wasn't TK supposed to add IST-MIA service year round at some point very soon? I remember reading a lot of rumblings on here about that.
 
leftyboarder
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RE: TK 3rd Daily JFK

Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:16 pm

Quoting MAV88 (Reply 1):
Wasn't TK supposed to add IST-MIA service year round at some point very soon? I remember reading a lot of rumblings on here about that.

Although the rumor mill has ground up MIA for a long time, no official announcement on TK website about MIA has been made so far. ATL is a different story. That one never materialized.
 
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TK787
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RE: TK 3rd Daily JFK

Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:19 pm

Quoting leftyboarder (Thread starter):

Wow, this is truly incredible news.
2 x 77W 3-class service and now a daily 2-class 333 service on JFK-IST.
This is a very smart way to utilize IST, (which is getting very crowded) and to offer us NY'ers a great option to avoid traffic both on the roads and in the air flying out of JFK and IST.
I would have never thought TK would have 3 daily nonstops from JFK, one each from ORD, IAD, LAX to IST!
Congragulations to TK.
 
klwright69
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RE: TK 3rd Daily JFK

Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:30 pm

This is really amazing. TK is becoming quite an airline. And IST is becoming a stronger hub every year.

This is a great move and makes sense, Unlike launching service to the most unsafe city in the world, Mogadishu.
 
leftyboarder
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RE: TK 3rd Daily JFK

Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:59 pm

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 4):
Unlike launching service to the most unsafe city in the world, Mogadishu.

Probably not sound safety-wise, but destinations like Baghdad, Kabul or Mogadishu carry the highest premiums due to lack of alternatives  
Quoting TK787 (Reply 3):
Wow, this is truly incredible news.

Indeed! From the days of 1-stop flights to JFK via BRU to triple daily nonstop.. What an amazing change!
 
washingtonian
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RE: TK 3rd Daily JFK

Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:13 pm

Quoting leftyboarder (Thread starter):
The schedules are such that TK3 departs IST 7:25am early in the morning, with 11:20am arrivals. TK departs JFK at 12:50pm, arriving at 05:40am next day. The flight is to be operated by 333. This in addition to TK1-2 and TK11-12, both daily 77W flights. New flights loaded into TK system.

Wow, very impressive growth in a short time! Ditto for other emerging markets...Just look at Brazil-US service now versus a decade ago.

Good timing on the JFK end too--Nice scheduling alternatives between the 3 daily flights.

Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 5):
From the days of 1-stop flights to JFK via BRU to triple daily nonstop.. What an amazing change!

Yup, and it wasn't long ago that TK1/2 were A-340s...2X 77Ws and 1X 330 is impressive!
 
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TK787
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RE: TK 3rd Daily JFK

Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:16 pm

Just like others TK is cutting deeply into the transfer market of LH, BA, AF, KL at their hubs for Turkish pax flying to N.America.
On the other hand I wonder how this will affect my dear DL flights.
DL can't keep this route daily year round, can't even make up its mind to send a 763 or 330.
And according to "LAXintl" UA recently acquired some slots at IST.
DL can not make it work year-around, how can UA be successful there?
 
washingtonian
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RE: TK 3rd Daily JFK

Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:20 pm

Quoting TK787 (Reply 7):
And according to "LAXintl" UA recently acquired some slots at IST.

United has a larger hub at Newark, and can probably tap into some traffic that doesn't go to Kennedy. Doesn't NJ have a larger Turkish population than NYC proper?
 
JU068
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RE: TK 3rd Daily JFK

Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:21 pm

Could this be a move to completely kill Delta in Istanbul and deterr United from launching flights?
 
nethkt
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RE: TK 3rd Daily JFK

Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:27 pm

Great news, however, growing too fast, too soon? Sorry for slightly off topic.

Not to mention this criteria ; IST airport as a HUB for connecting flight?
Misconnect pax due airport capacity and delayed departure/arrival?
Passenger service in IST? Have head so much of negative comments on Trip reports forum. Experienced myself twice.

Airlines can grow large, grow super fast....but to become a legacy, it takes another whole different level.
Way to go TK!
Let's just blame it on yields.
 
mogandoCI
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RE: TK 3rd Daily JFK

Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:17 pm

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 8):
United has a larger hub at Newark, and can probably tap into some traffic that doesn't go to Kennedy. Doesn't NJ have a larger Turkish population than NYC proper?

I'm also surprised why they don't make it 2x JFK plus 1x EWR to tap UA's hub. Unless ground costs of a split operation is not worth the incremental passengers.
 
washingtonian
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RE: TK 3rd Daily JFK

Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:28 pm

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 11):
I'm also surprised why they don't make it 2x JFK plus 1x EWR to tap UA's hub. Unless ground costs of a split operation is not worth the incremental passengers.

I'm sure United will be flying EWR-IST before long.
 
Thenoflyzone
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RE: TK 3rd Daily JFK

Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:35 pm

Quoting nethkt (Reply 10):
Misconnect pax due airport capacity and delayed departure/arrival?

Read my mind. From i've read, IST's current capacity is set at 24 million passengers/year. They handled 37 million last year, 24 million of which were on international flights.

That doesn't sound like an appealing airport to connect in, unfortunately ! No to mention that aircraft movements are increasing, adding runway capacity issues in the mix. TK can only grow so much until it hits a wall. Istanbul needs a third airport now.

Thenoflyzone
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
point2point
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RE: TK 3rd Daily JFK

Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:49 pm

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 13):
Read my mind. From i've read, IST's current capacity is set at 24 million passengers/year. They handled 37 million last year, 24 million of which were on international flights.

Maybe an A380 could be in the cards for TK? This could maybe at least alleviate some of the ground operations at IST, and cut down a few on the number of flights?

 
 
umit
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RE: TK 3rd Daily JFK

Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:51 pm

I tried to make a reservation to NYC with my miles and it seems no single seat is available until august 17 unless buying with guaranteed miles .As a matter of fact I have never been able to buy ticket with regular miles . I will stop collecting thru s&m it really doesnt pay off , seems wings card is better . Anybody has any idea ?
 
umit
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RE: TK 3rd Daily JFK

Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:52 pm

sorry wrong forum  
 
CO787EWR
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RE: TK 3rd Daily JFK

Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:17 pm

Wow 3x JFK now. Anyone know if EWR is in the works anytime soon.
 
Turkish350XWB
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RE: TK 3rd Daily JFK

Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:16 pm

Would be better if this 3rd flight was timed 1hours later at the same time as the 1st wave towards europe is departing. 7:25am-->8:25am

Arrival back would then be one hour later 5:40am-->6:40am

Maybe they didn't get slots for exactly that reason...
 
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lightsaber
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RE: TK 3rd Daily JFK

Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:43 pm

Quoting TK787 (Reply 7):
DL can not make it work year-around, how can UA be successful there?

*A. TK is in *A and thus should work with UA.

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 11):
I'm also surprised why they don't make it 2x JFK plus 1x EWR to tap UA's hub.

Perhaps UA made it clear they were going to fly from EWR?

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 13):
Istanbul needs a third airport now.

If instead you said Istanbul needs a new HUGE airport to replace the existing airports, I would agree with you. Split hubs... Do not work. TK/IST must expand shortly. But the 'overcrowding' is about the same as DXB prior to T3.

Lightsaber
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leftyboarder
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RE: TK 3rd Daily JFK

Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:11 pm

Somehow I doubt TK will cannibalize its own US expansion and codeshare with UA on IST-EWR. That would mean giving away passengers on domestic US connections. But time will tell I guess..
 
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usdcaguy
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RE: TK 3rd Daily JFK

Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:06 pm

To discourage TK, DL should do everything possible to offer the lowest fare 100% of the time. Trashing TK's yields would be best thing it could do. It would probably lose money doing this, but DL will never get anywhere with its nonstop network out of JFK if it doesn't take a hit once in a while and accept losses in some of these markets. There is no reason for there to be four flights a day between JFK and IST. Way too much capacity, even if most of the traffic is connecting over IST.
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: TK 3rd Daily JFK

Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:21 pm

I think DL will be fine.

This is one of their trunk routes that they have been serving for as long as I can remember. (Pan Am I think)
 
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LAXintl
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RE: TK 3rd Daily JFK

Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:27 pm

Yeah amazing how things have grown for THY, and Turkey in general.

I still well remember the first proving flight back in 1988 at JFK. At that time the service was 2 or 3x weekly on the A310 via Brussels. At the time TK operated out of the old IAB with Aerolineas Argentinas of all people doing the check-in and and Pan Am doing the ramp. Those were the days.

Off course everyone should understand that the ability to offer such a vibrant long-haul schedule by TK is thanks to the ability and ultimately success in leveraging geography in utilizing Istanbul as a convienent hub for many thousand of people daily.

Maşallah   
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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lightsaber
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RE: TK 3rd Daily JFK

Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:58 pm

Question:
Where is TK flying the 744s? I would have thought JFK was an obvious choice... but apparently not. Thanks in advance.

Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 20):
Somehow I doubt TK will cannibalize its own US expansion and codeshare with UA on IST-EWR.

I doubt TK could afford to not have UA code share on IST-JFK.
In a pissing match, no one wins.  

The question is if/when UA launches the EWR-IST service and on what size of aircraft. It it were on the 788, this wouldn't be anything to be spun up about. EWR has some connection that would work better for service to IST than UA at JFK. So I expect it would expand the profit of both TK and UA...

TK either leverages their alliance partners or not... In this case, I see a clear advantage for them working with UA. It just delays their 4th flight to JFK.  

Lightsaber
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TK787
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RE: TK 3rd Daily JFK

Sat Feb 11, 2012 12:05 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 24):

TK doesn't have any 744s.
LAXintl can go in detail about how TK and UA have difficutly deciding on codeshare flights even both in Star.
 
ljupco
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RE: TK 3rd Daily JFK

Sat Feb 11, 2012 12:07 am

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 13):
Istanbul needs a third airport now.

I'm not 100% sure, but I think I'd heard IST soon should get a new airport. If this is true THY has plan how to grow before the new airport become reality.

please correct me if i'm wrong.....
 
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N62NA
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RE: TK 3rd Daily JFK

Sat Feb 11, 2012 12:27 am

This is disappointing that they're not opening up shop at the Star Alliance super hub over at EWR. Though not totally unexpected - it's always a surprise when any airline that isn't UA (CO) starts or expands service at EWR as it happens so rarely.
 
laca773
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RE: TK 3rd Daily JFK

Sat Feb 11, 2012 3:27 am

Congratulations to TK. They offer a really great product in all classes and it's easy to see why they do so well.
I believe they have increased their service to LAX which will be daily or nearly daily by S12.

I definitely would take TK over UA day. UA's product offering are not near as good as TK's. The same can be said about UA vs NH and etc..

I hope DL will stick this out as well. Don't they send one of the few 763ERs that were already upgraded from nose to tail ahead of the rest of the fleet for the longest 76W flights (i.e., TLV, IST, SVO and etc.. )?
 
vin2basketball
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RE: TK 3rd Daily JFK

Sat Feb 11, 2012 3:46 am

Interesting thought here is could TK try to buy out the other non-Star international carriers to go to Sahiba Gocken? Would it be worth it financially for TK and could they do it at a reasonable price? I'm sure the govt will have no issues in shunting private turkish carriers to Sahiba Gocken, turining IST into a Star only hub
 
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lightsaber
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RE: TK 3rd Daily JFK

Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:06 am

Quoting TK787 (Reply 25):
TK doesn't have any 744s.

My mistake. I would have sworn I read something about them buying them second hand... I must have cross connected with another airline.

I would be interested to hear more of their issues with UA... That seems very counterproductive for an alliance. (Yea.. I know SQ sets its own rules...)

Lightsaber
Winter is coming.
 
leftyboarder
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RE: TK 3rd Daily JFK

Sat Feb 11, 2012 12:18 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 30):
I would be interested to hear more of their issues with UA... That seems very counterproductive for an alliance. (Yea.. I know SQ sets its own rules...)

Someone else more in the know can explain it better, but I think UA and LH being best buddies and wanting to funnel all mideast & Turkey passengers bound for the US via Germany resulted in limited cooperation between UA and TK. TK no longer wants to be a LH feeder, as it has its own expanding US network. But UA isn't keen on providing domestic connectivity to TK within US, they prefer it done via Germany & LH.
 
northstar80
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RE: TK 3rd Daily JFK

Sat Feb 11, 2012 12:31 pm

Quoting usdcaguy (Reply 21):
To discourage TK, DL should do everything possible to offer the lowest fare 100% of the time. Trashing TK's yields would be best thing it could do.

Mate, they are already doing it. DL's prices are always lower than TK's prices on this route and still people prefer TK. If DL lower their prices anymore, the tickets will almost be free   
 
klwright69
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RE: TK 3rd Daily JFK

Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:42 pm

Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 5):
Quoting klwright69 (Reply 4):
Unlike launching service to the most unsafe city in the world, Mogadishu.

Probably not sound safety-wise, but destinations like Baghdad, Kabul or Mogadishu carry the highest premiums due to lack of alternatives
Quoting TK787 (Reply 3):
Wow, this is truly incredible news.

Indeed! From the days of 1-stop flights to JFK via BRU to triple daily nonstop.. What an amazing change!

I totally agree. I remember the one stop via BRU. I also remember changing planes in FRA on PA before the route went to DL. I agree with some other posters. I have had the impression DL is being overshadowed in this market, which I guess is an understatement, more like overwhelmed. I do not agree that DL will be necessarily be"fine" just because they got the route from PA ..Besides what is a "trunk route" anyway? I remember CO flew to all the major cities to Australia and to New Zealand. The fact that CO flew them forever made no difference in the end when they were dropped. I know maybe not a good example, but being there a long time does not guarantee anything.

I totally get this point about Mogadishu. I am sure that's the reason. But it's still hard to digest.

[Edited 2012-02-11 05:46:21]

[Edited 2012-02-11 05:51:09]

[Edited 2012-02-11 05:53:04]

[Edited 2012-02-11 05:54:02]
 
Turkish350XWB
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RE: TK 3rd Daily JFK

Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:03 pm

Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 31):
Someone else more in the know can explain it better, but I think UA and LH being best buddies and wanting to funnel all mideast & Turkey passengers bound for the US via Germany resulted in limited cooperation between UA and TK. TK no longer wants to be a LH feeder, as it has its own expanding US network. But UA isn't keen on providing domestic connectivity to TK within US, they prefer it done via Germany & LH.

That sucks. Is there any formal possibilities within Star Alliance to force for cooperation?
TK short time ago started codesharing with LH from MUC and FRA to the US. They could easily stop this if they wanted and make it more difficult for LH/UA.
On the other hand i remember that we had the discussion here that LH and other Star Alliance members were thinking that TK got much more from the Alliance than it gave to it (in terms of passengers related to other member airlines).
 
kiwiandrew

RE: TK 3rd Daily JFK

Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:55 pm

Quoting Turkish350XWB (Reply 34):
On the other hand i remember that we had the discussion here that LH and other Star Alliance members were thinking that TK got much more from the Alliance than it gave to it

I thought LH sponsored TK into Star, seems an odd thing to do if LH thought they wouldn't be a good addition to the alliance.
 
stylo777
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RE: TK 3rd Daily JFK

Sat Feb 11, 2012 7:18 pm

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 35):
I thought LH sponsored TK into Star, seems an odd thing to do if LH thought they wouldn't be a good addition to the alliance.

they rather have them as a "partner" within the same alliance as an "opponent" in another. thats the reason why they were so keen to have them in the same boat.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: TK 3rd Daily JFK

Sat Feb 11, 2012 8:06 pm

Not too get to deeply in the alliance discussion, but in simplistic terms there is no requirement members code-share or joint market services. There are tons of examples within Star - for example look at SQ which does not hold relations with the majority of members including United.

Another things to remember which effects TK is the Atlantic++ JV between Air Canada, Lufthansa and United. Its essentially a JV within a JV, for which there is a big incentive to keep passengers and their revenue within A++ partners and not utilize third parties such as TK.

In regards to TK and UA specifically, the relationship has never been warm. In simplistic terms, UA in the past did not see a value of TK or atleast TK did not offer much that UA could not get via its LH relationship for example. Domestically in the US, TK has long wanted to expand its mediocre number of UA code-shares, however UA has been reluctant to provide seats and cheaper prorate capacity as it believes rightfully it can sell the seats at higher revenue itself directly. In otherwords why give TK a ORD-SFO seat for $100 prorate revenue that UA can itself directly sell for $150. The TK-Air Canada relationship has similarly been frosty.

Thankfully things are changing a bit with United. As TK gets a more prominent role in global aviation, and as United has gotten new folks in many positions each party has started to look at each other in a bit differently. CO for a few years now has contemplated a Istanbul flight, and now post merger the impetus and prospects for such has become much more compelling with UA formally seeking slots at IST for a EWR flight the summer of 2012. Off course to help make such a flight a success, beyond TK codeshares would be helpful, and in return UA would be more willing to cooperate with TK across the Atlantic and in domestic US markets.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
leftyboarder
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RE: TK 3rd Daily JFK

Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:52 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 37):
Thankfully things are changing a bit with United. As TK gets a more prominent role in global aviation, and as United has gotten new folks in many positions each party has started to look at each other in a bit differently. CO for a few years now has contemplated a Istanbul flight, and now post merger the impetus and prospects for such has become much more compelling with UA formally seeking slots at IST for a EWR flight the summer of 2012. Off course to help make such a flight a success, beyond TK codeshares would be helpful, and in return UA would be more willing to cooperate with TK across the Atlantic and in domestic US markets.

Great summary, thanks! And fingers crossed for further cooperation. I know it's far fetched but maybe UA can be persuaded by TK to ditch LH as a partner to some transfer markets in MidEast  

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