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YYZAMS
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 For AMS

Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:57 am

Is Emirates the Wal-Mart of the airlines???

Big superstores come in and squeeze out all the players in town?
 
YYZAMS
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 For AMS

Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:02 am

2 hours ground time? an hour to unload and load? When do they clean?
 
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shamrock604
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 For AMS

Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:17 am

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 43):
In Germany, Holland and France they do.

Where does one draw the line ?

Then they should purely fly domestic routes in Germany, Holland and France, should they not?

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 43):
What if we got to a point where you can't get to HKG from FRA without going through DXB ?

For years, people could not fly from NYC or ORD to India without passing through fortress Heathrow. That's life. That's competition. Adapt or die.

Dont get me wrong. I work for a big, old, stuffy European flag carrier with an elevated sense of it's own worth. While I am very proud to work for it, I am under no illusion that we exist to serve the market. If we cannot, then we have no place in the business. We had it our own way for many, many years, shoving passengers from around the globe through our hubs in London Heathrow, Frankfurt, Amsterdam and De Gaulle.

Now there are a new breed of challengers. So we adapt to survive. We don't go crying because someone learns the rules of the game we have been playing and starts to play it better than us. Sure, our stupid, short sighted governments could stop tying our hands around our backs and allow us to compete on an even basis. So, it is OUR OWN governments that are the enemy - not Emirates.
 
AAIL86
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 For AMS

Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:02 am

Quoting travelavnut (Reply 21):
Luckily we are living in a free market capitalist society and if a carrier like KL gets into trouble because EK is just following a solid business plan than the problem lies with KL and not with EK.

So if my local dictator bribing sweatshop, err - textile mill drives your responsibly run textile mill out of business, is it your fault that you operated ethically? Or that consumers prefer the cheaper sweaters that my slave labor can provide?

I'm not trying to start or continue a flame war or defend sub-par service at your local flag carrier. I do think it's completely fair to ask hard questions about Dubai, Inc and the kind of society they are building. And Emirates is a very big part of that society. Just ask some of the imported Filipino laborers literally slaving away in desert squalor how it's working out for them. Quite frankly, I'd rather give my money to KLM or LH, even if KLM doesn't have a first class cabin fit for a sultan. But that's my choice- yours might be different.

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 49):
May have been true a few years back but recent experience on UA and Delta suggests that there's marginal difference if any between US and European service attitudes now. Actually I was really impressed with Delta and rued our corporate travel agents that booked me on what they thought was a Delta flight (codeshare with KLM).

You must have a very poor travel agent if they can't distinguish between the marketing and operating carrier....

[Edited 2012-02-15 19:04:03]
" Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness ... Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime. ” - Mark Twain, 1869
 
JU068
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 For AMS

Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:55 am

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 37):
Incorrect. Airbus created the A380, not the EU. The EU is not a company. .

Yes but it was the EU who subsidized it  
Quoting magyar (Reply 48):
But they also like to lecture their East/Central European brothers about the benefit of free trade and not to protect their own companies (the name "Malev" rings any bell?).

Well, when these big boys crush and bully smaller Eastern European carriers then it's for our own good and for the good of the citizens, since now they have more choice.
When it's a Western airline being threatened then we should think ahead how bad it is. Double standards.
 
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EPA001
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 For AMS

Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:30 am

Quoting ju068 (Reply 54):
Yes but it was the EU who subsidized it

No subsidies, only RLI. Make no mistake about that and we better do not drag this over- and over debated issue into this thread.  .
 
JU068
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 For AMS

Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:38 am

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 55):

No subsidies, only RLI. Make no mistake about that and we better do not drag this over- and over debated issue into this thread. .

Actually I have to disagree with you, the WTO forced the EU to stop providing subsidies for Airbus which were in clear breach of international trade rules.

There are numerous articles about it, here is a recent one:
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/082c1...41-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1mWnId9TV

If they were really RLIs then there would be no need to stop them, right?  
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 For AMS

Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:40 am

Quoting [email protected] (Reply 32):
I wonder when EK will launch its second-daily DXB-AMS-DXB

EK had slots requested for that service (EK149/150) but gave up on those slots and went with the capacity upgauge instead. Still, some time down the road, the second daily will be introduced.
 
mikey72
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 For AMS

Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:03 am

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 49):
Nope. National airlines nurtured and protected by respective governments for decades, slowly being exposed to the realities of global aviation. About time.

Not sure about others in Europe but BA was privatized in 1984 ! The same time incidentally that VS was formed.

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 52):
For years, people could not fly from NYC or ORD to India without passing through fortress Heathrow. That's life. That's competition. Adapt or die.

Maybe because it was technologically impossible to do so ?

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 52):
I work for a big, old, stuffy European flag carrier with an elevated sense of it's own worth

Oh I see. So just because there are now a few new boys in town the European carriers are big, old and stuffy ? The roots of these carriers goes back decades. No respect due ? Just a touch ?



May I remind you that it is the growth of the west that has fuelled the insatiable thirst for oil that has bank rolled the middle eastern carriers in the first place.

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 52):
We had it our own way for many, many years, shoving passengers from around the globe through our hubs in London Heathrow, Frankfurt, Amsterdam and De Gaulle.

We didn't have it 'our' own way. Nobody else was doing it ! They were providing a service and getting payed for it. You make it sound like some sort of cartel ?
Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
 
JU068
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 For AMS

Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:09 am

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 58):
They were providing a service and getting payed for it

And that is what Emirates are doing today, hence why all arguments against them are pointless. People pay to fly them for a reason, just like people avoid some other carriers for some other reasons. Whose fault is it that KLM and some other carriers are losing market to the new players? (not that Emirates are a new player but still).
 
mikey72
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 For AMS

Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:11 am

Quoting ju068 (Reply 59):
And that is what Emirates are doing today, hence why all arguments against them are pointless

Excuse me but I'm not complaining about them as others are complaining about the history of legacy carriers.

[Edited 2012-02-16 00:14:46]
Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
 
JU068
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 For AMS

Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:15 am

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 60):
Excuse me but I'm not comaplaining about them as others are complaining about the history of legacy carriers.

I wasn't referring to your comments but to those who urge us to think ahead, I just used what you wrote because it made sense.
 
mikey72
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 For AMS

Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:19 am

Quoting ju068 (Reply 61):
I wasn't referring to your comments but to those who urge us to think ahead, I just used what you wrote because it made sense.

Oh..ok then.

  

(lol)
Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
 
kl911
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 For AMS

Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:23 am

Quoting ju068 (Reply 59):
And that is what Emirates are doing today, hence why all arguments against them are pointless. People pay to fly them for a reason, just like people avoid some other carriers for some other reasons. Whose fault is it that KLM and some other carriers are losing market to the new players? (not that Emirates are a new player but still).

Exactly, I dont see why my Dutch friends are against EK 380 at AMS. There is even negative talk in the Dutch press this morning about it.

EK is not doing any different things then KL is doing. EK sends an A380 to AMS to pick up many passengers to distribute themn via DXB to other destinations.

KLM is doing just the same by sending many 747's around the globe, pick up pax to distribute them to other destinations via AMS. Only a very few have AMS as their final destination.

If KLM cant compete with EK they have to raise the service levels and cut wages/costs. Business is Business.
 
[email protected]
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 For AMS

Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:51 am

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 57):
Still, some time down the road, the second daily will be introduced.

Yep! And we can surely expect the same level of moaning then as now.  
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
runway23
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 For AMS

Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:57 am

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 57):
Quoting [email protected] (Reply 32):
I wonder when EK will launch its second-daily DXB-AMS-DXB

EK had slots requested for that service (EK149/150) but gave up on those slots and went with the capacity upgauge instead. Still, some time down the road, the second daily will be introduced.

Are there any other EK destinations that are one daily that may get an A380 before a second daily flight ?
 
[email protected]
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 For AMS

Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:00 am

Quoting runway23 (Reply 65):
Are there any other EK destinations that are one daily that may get an A380 before a second daily flight ?

In terms of those already with the 380, ICN is my immediate answer. Did JED also fall into this category?! I cannot recall.

[Edited 2012-02-16 01:01:40]
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
imiakhtar
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 For AMS

Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:36 am

Quoting ju068 (Reply 56):
If they were really RLIs then there would be no need to stop them, right?

*OFF-TOPIC.

They haven't stopped. Airbus is still receiving RLI, at least from the UK (so is Bombardier for the C-Series).

Does EK have any plans for a Y+ cabin on the A380 fleet? It would make sense on the longer sectors.
Whatever happened to Leon Trotsky?
 
LJ
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 For AMS

Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:46 am

[

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 39):

KL's twice-daily service with a choice of both daytime and overnight flights is also an advantage for the local O&D market. Business traffic likes overnight flights to avoid wasting a day travelling in each direction.

KL had already announced they will reduce DXB to daily this Summer. Anyway, for KL this isn't bad news. Better 1 daily A380 than 2 daily 77Ws.
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 For AMS

Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:57 am

Quoting runway23 (Reply 65):
Are there any other EK destinations that are one daily that may get an A380 before a second daily flight ?
Quoting [email protected] (Reply 66):
In terms of those already with the 380, ICN is my immediate answer. Did JED also fall into this category?! I cannot recall.

ICN and NRT have and will have once daily A388 service. JED will have twice daily A388. YYZ has thrice weekly A388.

Quoting LJ (Reply 68):
Better 1 daily A380 than 2 daily 77Ws.

It's only a matter of time. I believe the second daily flight will materialize for S13. All of this may be influenced by the possible start of BRU operations.
 
mikey72
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 For AMS

Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:01 am

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 69):
It's only a matter of time. I believe the second daily flight will materialize for S13. All of this may be influenced by the possible start of BRU operations.

Face it AMS...you're doomed. Doomed I tell you !

(Just kidding)

Look across the water to the UK,. We've survived the invasion.

Just !
Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
 
[email protected]
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 For AMS

Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:10 am

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 69):
JED will have twice daily A388

Yes, but I am sure that EK evolved DXB-JED to once-daily by the 380 replacing other aircraft. And then, as you said, increased it to twice-daily by the 380.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
HeeseokKoo
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 For AMS

Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:21 am

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 69):
Quoting runway23 (Reply 65):
Are there any other EK destinations that are one daily that may get an A380 before a second daily flight ?

ICN and NRT have and will have once daily A388 service. YYZ has thrice weekly A388.

ICN and YYZ are due to bilateral restriction. EK cannot go Canada more than 3/w, and ICN-DXB (specifically, any city pair between UAE and South Korea) is restricted to 7/w. I think EK has similar restriction at NRT.
 
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EK413
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 For AMS

Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:28 am

Quoting CrimsonNL (Reply 2):
Emirates beast that is threatening numerous airlines throughout Europe.

And Asian carriers alike... I would also like to add all 3 middle eastern carriers EK, EY, QR are imposing a threat to national carriers around the globe...

EK413
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
LondonCity
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 For AMS

Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:32 am

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 70):
Look across the water to the UK,. We've survived the invasion.
Just !

But long-haul airlines serving the UK have lost lots of passengers to the Gulf carriers. I don't have stats for EK but its nearby rival EY claims that last year it carried over 222,000 pax on MAN-AUH alone which makes this route the eighth busiest on its network. I wonder how many of these pax would previously have flown with BA or SQ or CX and so on ?

http://www.etihadairways.com/sites/E...11-jan12.aspx?fromNewsListing=true
 
aerokiwi
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 For AMS

Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:39 am

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 58):
Not sure about others in Europe but BA was privatized in 1984 ! The same time incidentally that VS was formed.

A certain notorious bilateral across the Atlantic ensured minimised competition at Fortress Heathrow for... how long now?

Quoting runway23 (Reply 65):
Are there any other EK destinations that are one daily that may get an A380 before a second daily flight ?

Could AKL count? If you go by route, SYD-AKL and soon MEL-AKL are once-dailies with A380s.
 
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notaxonrotax
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 For AMS

Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:50 am

What a negative thread; my word!

How cool that the world's most conspicious plane finally decided to visit one of the world's best / most classic airports!
No?

Why NOW all of a sudden bury the threat under the whole EK-monopoly theory; when it just happens to be AMS next?
Sure, it's an issue......but let's just celebrate new metal at AMS; instead of over-thinking the whole Emirates dominance thing. They'll probably announce 5 times daily Birmingham soon; or something rather.....I see a trend!
But how chuffed are so many to not have to wait for Malaysian to see "double" at AMS's spotter hang outs?

Anyway; I reckon Emirates and the European carriers can exist side by side........after all; who doesn't want at least 2 flavors to choose from?

A380--> Polderbaan = YES!

No Tax On Rotax
For anybody that happens to be wondering:"yes, owning your own aircraft is a 100% worth it!"
 
royaldutchgirl
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 For AMS

Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:01 am

Great news! The A380 is finally coming to Amsterdam!
 
Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 24):
It is not because of KL. It is because of the way we live and do business in the Western World. If you want better aircraft and better service and A380s flying between LHR and AMS, let's just halve KLs crew salaries so that the crew costs would be on par with those of EK. Of course EK does not pay taxes on employees neither their employees do... it is kind of austerity measures that Greece is doing to its people. With a salary of just 750 euros a month per CC, KL could invest the difference for upgrading the aircraft, the IFE and even offer a 3 course meal on AMS-DUS in Econmy class and that by asking its caterer to halve its costs, its cleaning team, etc... KL would also need to ban Unions and axe all the old agreements....

but I hope that when these measures are taken by KL to make you enjoy your first class service on KL between AMS and LHR, your salary will also be divided by 4 because your manager will think that you would need to be on par with the Chinese salaries to better compete with them and offer a better product....

You are so right!  

[Edited 2012-02-16 03:09:22]

[Edited 2012-02-16 03:11:01]
 
A388
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 For AMS

Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:38 pm

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 41):
I just don't buy that. You mention new long-range aircraft but the European hubs have been able to reach everywhere bar Australia non-stop since the 744 was introduced. What's that ..over 20 years.

Flying through the Middle East to Asia from South America and Africa is less of a detour compared to European hubs, so yes, the EK hub works better.

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 42):
So man up and accept the competition and adapt to it.

Yes, as unfortunate as it may be for the competition, this is the way to go.

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 43):
Where does one draw the line ?

When operating in a free market there is no line. Remember how many airlines in the U.S. went bankrupt or were taken over by the major airlines, that is only starting to happen in the EU now. That's just how an open market works.

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 58):
May I remind you that it is the growth of the west that has fuelled the insatiable thirst for oil that has bank rolled the middle eastern carriers in the first place.

And your point is?

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 58):
We didn't have it 'our' own way. Nobody else was doing it !

So now that there is competition, it should not be allowed? In which era do you live?

A388
 
peanuts
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 For AMS

Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:54 pm

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 46):
Shake 'em up, Emirates.

They surely will. Rough times ahead for euro carriers indeed. This is a very complex challenge for AF, BA, LH to overcome. It's actually almost impossible really. (labor costs alone, how can you have parity with EK? you can't, you never will).

In a nutshell, for Europe, the chickens have come home to roost. They tax their own to the hilt, they build a great airplane for their competition, and they feel entitled to a continual high(er) standard of living. A 3 year old would tell me: OK, at what price?
Well, that will all unfold over the next 10 years or so. It's a bit entertaining to watch actually. Europeans will turn on each other first, you watch.

The only thing that could thwart EK really is politics and Middle East turmoil. Even Europe could have influence over that. Now that's the scary part...

And to top it all off, US carriers are getting way better than their European partners (costs and service wise). Pressure from both sides of Europe even though Trans Atlantic ATI/JV's protect them there a bit more.

In the end, EK should make the industry better as a whole. Will it? Doubtful. One only needs to look at how AF and KL have fared over the past 5 years, together. It's tough to change old habits and egos.
 
mikey72
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 For AMS

Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:09 pm

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 75):
A certain notorious bilateral across the Atlantic ensured minimised competition at Fortress Heathrow for... how long now?

On either side of it. I don't consider 4 operators minimal.

Quoting A388 (Reply 78):
When operating in a free market there is no line

Ideally no but I think you'll find there may well be one in this case.

Quoting A388 (Reply 78):
Remember how many airlines in the U.S. went bankrupt or were taken over by the major airlines, that is only starting to happen in the EU now

They got taken over by other U.S. airlines, went bankrupt because they couldn't compete with their counter-parts. That doesn't ruffle quite so many nationalistic feathers.

Quoting A388 (Reply 78):
So now that there is competition, it should not be allowed? In which era do you live?

Have you read the entire thread ?

I was responding to :

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 52):
We had it our own way for many, many years, shoving passengers from around the globe through our hubs in London Heathrow, Frankfurt, Amsterdam and De Gaulle.

The European operators were merely filling a void/providing a service back then. Shamrock made it sound like some sort of shady operation. At no point did I say further competition shouldn't be allowed ?

Jeesh.

(i'm getting my money's worth again today)
Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
 
mikey72
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 For AMS

Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:20 pm

Quoting peanuts (Reply 79):
They surely will. Rough times ahead for euro carriers indeed

What do you mean - ahead ? We've been battling away in the UK now for quite some time.

Quoting peanuts (Reply 79):
This is a very complex challenge for AF, BA, LH to overcome.

AF and LH may have to shrink. That is all. It's not the end of the world.

Remeber there is only one place that EK can fly to non-stop from LHR, CDG, AMS, FRA etc.....DXB

If AF, LH, BA have to concentrate more on their trunk routes then so be it. People will always prefer the non-stop option in the premium cabins especially.

Let's not forget what options the next generation of smaller aircraft might throw up.
Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
 
mikey72
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 For AMS

Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:36 pm

I am not sure that it is wise to assume that in the future many of the services that EK currently offers from Europe's cities will still only be financially viable as transits through the middle east.

These regions just have too much growth to achieve for that to be the case.

It's no good basing the fate of Europe's legacy carriers on today's environment.
Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
 
flipdewaf
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 For AMS

Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:42 pm

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 81):
People will always prefer the non-stop option in the premium cabins especially.

I live a good 5 hrs (at least) from LHR so my option of flying places nonstop is pretty useless. I can do MAN in 2 hrs and NCL in 1.5hrs so if I need to go to asia or to Aus/NZ or africa then NCL it is, id robably only go to LHR if I was going stateside. I imagine that there are many in my position, this is why EK are good.

Fred
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mikey72
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 For AMS

Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:53 pm

Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 83):
I live a good 5 hrs (at least) from LHR so my option of flying places nonstop is pretty useless. I can do MAN in 2 hrs and NCL in 1.5hrs so if I need to go to asia or to Aus/NZ or africa then NCL it is, id robably only go to LHR if I was going stateside. I imagine that there are many in my position, this is why EK are good.

Totally agree.

That's why I said the legacy carriers may have to retrench (if they havn't already) to their non-stop hub to hub routes until there is sufficient traffic to warrant service to/from regionals.

787's etc may prove invaluable in this area.

It also still remains to be seen what road EY and QR will take regards alliances etc
Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
 
A388
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 For AMS

Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:54 pm

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 80):
Ideally no but I think you'll find there may well be one in this case.

I can see what you mean but what can really be done here? Having a free market with limitations isn't a free market so it is very difficult to do something about it (even if one wanted to).

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 80):
They got taken over by other U.S. airlines, went bankrupt because they couldn't compete with their counter-parts. That doesn't ruffle quite so many nationalistic feathers.

Competition is competition and doesn't look at whether an airline is a national airline or not.

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 80):
Have you read the entire thread ?

Yes, I have read the entire thread. You clearly are being nationalistic which is okay but in today's aviation industry that just doesn't work in Europe or the U.S. or Asia. South America is also going into that same direction. Liberalization of those markets has advantages and disadvantages. We will all have to deal with it, period. With your thinking we need to go back to the '80's and start protecting national airlines against foreign airlines who are able to expand more. I understand your feeling but it is very difficult in this case to stop an airline like EK to prevent them from expanding on your own market.

A388
 
mikey72
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 For AMS

Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:12 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 85):
You clearly are being nationalistic which is okay but in today's aviation industry that just doesn't work in Europe or the U.S. or Asia

I'm not. I'm defending the 'past' of the legacy carriers in Europe. That's not being nationalistic because it wasn't at anyone elses expense. What happens in the future is a totally different matter. May the best airline win.

Quoting A388 (Reply 85):
We will all have to deal with it, period. With your thinking we need to go back to the '80's and start protecting national airlines against foreign airlines who are able to expand more. I understand your feeling but it is very difficult in this case to stop an airline like EK to prevent them from expanding on your own market.

Again that is not my thinking. That doesn't mean though I accept comments like .....

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 52):
We had it our own way for many, many years, shoving passengers from around the globe through our hubs in London Heathrow, Frankfurt, Amsterdam and De Gaulle.

I'm from the UK, i'm used to EK and the like. For a long time on here now I have accepted the reality.

Don't confuse my defending the past with my objecting to the future with EK because I don't object.
Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
 
A388
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 For AMS

Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:36 pm

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 86):
Don't confuse my defending the past with my objecting to the future with EK because I don't object.

Okay, that's fine by me   

A388
 
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tjcab
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 For AMS

Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:05 pm

Quoting ju068 (Reply 54):
Yes but it was the EU who subsidized it
Quoting magyar (Reply 48):
But they also like to lecture their East/Central European brothers about the benefit of free trade and not to protect their own companies (the name "Malev" rings any bell?).

yes and i often see European heads-of-state at roll-outs. Do we see many US government reps doing the same these days?

anyway, no matter what, if an airline does not have a good business model, it will fail. Gov-backed or not. Just wait until EK gets around to expanding in Africa. The world business stage is a dynamic environment. If you can't keep up, well...
 
lijnden
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 For AMS

Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:25 pm

You know what is even better... The open skies treaty between NL and USA can be used by Emirates as well if I am correct. Would be great to get more competition to the USA from SkyTeam-fortress Amsterdam. I would not be surprised to see more of Emirates A380's landing here each day (Houston, LA???). Anyway if that happens Emirates will hire AMS based staff for these flights.
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Quokkas
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 For AMS

Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:54 pm

With all this talk of doom and gloom, it may be worth reflecting that the LH Group saw passenger numbers grow from 77,315,000 in 2009 to 91,157,000 in 2010, according to the figure published on their website. This represents a growth of 17.9%.

In contrast EK, according to its Financial Report 2010-2011 saw passenger numbers increase from 27,454,000 in 2009 to 31,422,000 in 2010. A growth of just 14.5%.

At the meeting of the Airports Council International in Montreal last August, the ACI Director General released figures showing that total passenger number reported by 1,318 participating airports in 2010 was 5 037 707 294 - yes, over 5 Billion (or Milliards), can we really believe that EK is going to single-handedly bring down the aviation industry. They have just 0.62% of global passengers compared to the LH Group, who not only have 1.7% but grew at a faster rate as well.
“Not to laugh, not to cry, not to hate, but understand.” Spinoza
 
flipdewaf
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 For AMS

Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:04 pm

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 90):
With all this talk of doom and gloom, it may be worth reflecting that the LH Group saw passenger numbers grow from 77,315,000 in 2009 to 91,157,000 in 2010, according to the figure published on their website. This represents a growth of 17.9%.

In contrast EK, according to its Financial Report 2010-2011 saw passenger numbers increase from 27,454,000 in 2009 to 31,422,000 in 2010. A growth of just 14.5%.

Like for like, Year on year? or were they basing LH numbers on all flights in the growing LH group?

Fred
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Quokkas
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 For AMS

Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:13 pm

Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 91):
Like for like, Year on year?

The reporting years are not identical because the end of financial year in the UAE is not the same as it is in Germany but they are in both instances from one year to the next and show that the LH Group is still much bigger than EK and carries a far greater number of passengers. We are talking of a difference of approximately 60 million in LH's favour.
“Not to laugh, not to cry, not to hate, but understand.” Spinoza
 
flipdewaf
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 For AMS

Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:23 pm

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 92):

But are the LH numbers just based on LH the airline or the whole group as the group had expanded significantly during that period through aquisitions.

Fred
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sandyb123
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 For AMS

Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:03 pm

Quoting CrimsonNL (Reply 2):
I personally don't see why anyone employed in the Dutch aviation industry (other then those working with/for EK), should be happy about this news. Sure the 380 will be a nice sight at AMS, but to me it's just another sign of the growing Emirates beast that is threatening numerous airlines throughout Europe.

I really don't think that the arrival of the EK A380 at AMS will have any impact on KL apart from on the AMS-DXB route, which is one of hundreds of routes they fly.

Quoting lijnden (Reply 89):
You know what is even better... The open skies treaty between NL and USA can be used by Emirates as well if I am correct. Would be great to get more competition to the USA from SkyTeam-fortress Amsterdam. I would not be surprised to see more of Emirates A380's landing here each day (Houston, LA???). Anyway if that happens Emirates will hire AMS based staff for these flights.

Now that would be interesting and would be more of a challenge to Skyteam and KL on the North American routes. But how does EK get in the door on the agreement? Is it because it would be a connecting service?

Sandyb123
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A388
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 For AMS

Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:09 pm

Quoting sandyb123 (Reply 94):
But how does EK get in the door on the agreement? Is it because it would be a connecting service?

If EK has fifth freedom rights from AMS to any destination in the U.S., they are cleared to fly to those destinations from the U.S. The Air Service Agreement between the U.A.E. and the Netherlands should clarify this.

A388
 
lijnden
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 For AMS

Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:16 pm

Garuda flies Jakarta > Dubai > Amsterdam > Dubai > Jakarta!

Anyway the A380 cannot fly non-stop Dubai to Houston so the route DXB - AMS - IAH makes sense. Also IAH has prepaired gates for the A380. AF flies only the B777, LH only flies the B744, so for who are the gates?

In the past there were several airliners that used X - Amsterdam - USA routes (EG: Alia, El Al, Tarom, ).
Be kind to animals! Next trip: ORF-ATL-HND-ATL-ORF
 
A388
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 For AMS

Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:06 pm

Quoting lijnden (Reply 96):
Garuda flies Jakarta > Dubai > Amsterdam > Dubai > Jakarta!

What's your point here?

Quoting lijnden (Reply 96):
Anyway the A380 cannot fly non-stop Dubai to Houston so the route DXB - AMS - IAH makes sense. Also IAH has prepaired gates for the A380. AF flies only the B777, LH only flies the B744, so for who are the gates?

It can be any airline who wants to fly the A380 to IAH in the short/medium and long term.

Quoting lijnden (Reply 96):
In the past there were several airliners that used X - Amsterdam - USA routes (EG: Alia, El Al, Tarom, ).

All true. It depends on what the air service agreements between those countries say.

A388
 
flyingfool
Posts: 348
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 11:28 pm

RE: Emirates Announces A380 For AMS

Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:10 pm

Quoting lijnden (Reply 96):
LH only flies the B744, so for who are the gates?

LH will deploy the A380 to IAH from the 1st of August this year.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Emirates Announces A380 For AMS

Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:20 pm

Quoting lijnden (Reply 89):
The open skies treaty between NL and USA can be used by Emirates as well if I am correct.

I would be very surprised if that is the case. The US-EU Open Skies Agreement only covers carriers from the signatory countries to the agreement, meaning the USA and the 27 member states of the EU. Switzerland, Norway and Iceland have similar rights under separate bilateral agreements.

EK certainly have unrestricted 5th freedom rights as part of the US-UAE Open Skies Agreement, but I can't see how they could exercise 5th freedom rights between the Netherlands (or any other country in Europe) and the U.S. unless the bilateral in effect between the UAE and that European country also grants 5th freedom rights.

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