kaitak
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Irish 4/12: Airborne And Climbing ...

Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:07 am

Good morning everyone and welcome to our fourth thread of 2012.

Not an awful lot to report, it being a slow news week in the aviation world, particularly in Ireland; the main story is not a particularly happy one, with most of the Malev and Spanair fleets having been flown here after the demise of these two airlines.

A few new Ryanair 737s have been delivered this month (they're now up to 'EVF) and with the Summer season only a matter of weeks away, by the time this thread is finished, the EI A319s should be ready to enter service.

With that, over to you; here's a link to the old thread:
Irish 3/12: A Farewell To Fallen Friends (by kaitak Feb 4 2012 in Civil Aviation)
 
SURFER
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RE: Irish 4/12: Airborne And Climbing ...

Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:16 am

For anyone in DUB interested at getting a look at the Air China B744 it will arrive their at 1430 later today.

[Edited 2012-02-18 23:13:36]
 
aerecosse
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RE: Irish 4/12: Airborne And Climbing ...

Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:45 am

quick Q - looking at flights to SSH from DUB, charter option coming up for AMC Airlines...... google search throws up an Egyptian Charter Co. with some 738's & an MD-83. Has anyone ever used them or any info re onboard services etc? Thanks in advance.
Flown: BA,BD,BY,AMM,DA,MON,LC,BE,EI,FR,EZY,NW,CO,US,HP,F9,AC,QF,AN,NZ,TN,GZ,MH,EK,EY,PG,IB,JK,FH,BV,LH,SA
 
Cabincrewifly
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RE: Irish 4/12: Airborne And Climbing ...

Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:04 pm

Quoting aerecosse (Reply 2):
looking at flights to SSH from DUB,

Thomson Airways also do DUB SSH. You can book here http://flights.firstchoice.co.uk/fir...hoice/en-GB/booking/standardsearch
EI FR RE EIR IWD MA FUA
 
Rufusisgod
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RE: Irish 4/12: Airborne And Climbing ...

Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:27 pm

AMC do SSH during the winter and thomson do it in the summer.

All i know about them is that one of their MD83's landed with no nose wheel in December.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70LYVJEHxZ0

Bring back the days when monarch did SSH on the 757. Great service, great aircraft.
 
Cipango
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RE: Irish 4/12: Airborne And Climbing ...

Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:40 pm

I watched the Air China arrive today from a distance, don't think the lighting was very good for photographs..

Also quick question, if the BA/BD merger goes ahead, will DUB lose out on some connections through LHR if BA or EI aren't partners with them?
Let's fly! Unless it's on a CRJ 200, then I'll stay down here.
 
eicvd
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RE: Irish 4/12: Airborne And Climbing ...

Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:54 pm

Anyone know what the delay was with the DL flight to ATL this morning? Noticed it while driving past DUB on the M50 at around 1045, was still there at 1230.
COYBIB
 
aerecosse
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RE: Irish 4/12: Airborne And Climbing ...

Sun Feb 19, 2012 7:52 pm

Quoting rufusisgod (Reply 4):
Bring back the days when monarch did SSH on the 757. Great service, great aircraft.

Cheers Cabincreifly & rufusisgod - would love it if it was Monarch - was on an A321 to FAO last year and the legroom was great, as was the service.
Flown: BA,BD,BY,AMM,DA,MON,LC,BE,EI,FR,EZY,NW,CO,US,HP,F9,AC,QF,AN,NZ,TN,GZ,MH,EK,EY,PG,IB,JK,FH,BV,LH,SA
 
iRISH251
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RE: Irish 4/12: Airborne And Climbing ...

Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:13 pm

The Air China 747 arrived at DUB in difficult conditions for photography, the sun having temporarily hidden behind the clouds, but was a nice sight nonetheless.


B-2447 Boeing 747-4J6 by Irish251, on Flickr

B-2447 Boeing 747-4J6 by Irish251, on Flickr

[Edited 2012-02-19 12:20:11]
 
Eagleboy
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RE: Irish 4/12: Airborne And Climbing ...

Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:12 pm

Why the stop in SNN first before coming to DUB?

Surely a political delegation wouldn't have taxed the B744 range?
 
iRISH251
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RE: Irish 4/12: Airborne And Climbing ...

Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:53 pm

Quoting Eagleboy (Reply 9):
Why the stop in SNN first before coming to DUB?

Surely a political delegation wouldn't have taxed the B744 range?

The first stage of the visit involved events in the west of the country, so SNN was a natural first stop.
 
tonymctigue
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RE: Irish 4/12: Airborne And Climbing ...

Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:32 am

Quoting IRISH251 (Reply 10):
The first stage of the visit involved events in the west of the country, so SNN was a natural first stop.

Yes, the Chineese Vice-President visited The Shannon Free Zone, The Cliffs of Moher, Dromoland Castle and Bunratty Castle. I actually saw his entourage as it entered the motorway at the Dromoland interchange then exit again at Bunratty.
Airports: SNN GWY NOC DUB ORK BOS EWR JFK ORD MCI BOI SEA LHR STN CDG LYS FAO GVA HKG MEL ADL HBA
 
BestWestern
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RE: Irish 4/12: Airborne And Climbing ...

Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:04 pm

Enda Kenny interviewed by the US travelweekly...

http://www.travelweekly.com/Europe-T...lls-tourism-a-government-priority/

This is a priority of government,” he said. “And the reason it’s a priority is we recognize we have most of the infrastructure in place for many years now: hotels, roads, golf courses, facilities, spas, all of the things that people look for.”
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
dstc47
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RE: Irish 4/12: Airborne And Climbing ...

Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:43 pm

"....so when they’re stuck in a traffic jam on the Brooklyn Bridge they’ll say ‘I wish to God I was back in Ireland."

Sadly an unlikely prospect for many, except some of those forced to emigrate from Ireland. An odd remark on a day when an Irish Minister has to resort to walking, due to traffic, in Galway. Strangely ambiguous tourist marketing of Ireland, - is anyone likely to fly from the USA to use a spa in Ireland? Yet peculiarly Irish assets such as the Abbey Theatre do not seem to be used much. Rather better than Northern Ireland, I suppose, which seems to rely heavily on a sunken ocean liner as a marketing ploy.

And the mention of reduced VAT rates on some services, omits to mention the more recent increase in the standard VAT rate. The more favourable rate of exchange for American visitors, compared to more recent years, might be worth a mention too.
 
LGWflyer
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RE: Irish 4/12: Airborne And Climbing ...

Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:26 am

I heard that an ex Spanair A321 EC-HQZ was ferried from BCN to DUB today.

[Edited 2012-02-20 16:27:09]
3 words... I Love Aviation!!!
 
kaitak
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RE: Irish 4/12: Airborne And Climbing ...

Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:08 am

Quoting eicvd (Reply 6):
Anyone know what the delay was with the DL flight to ATL this morning? Noticed it while driving past DUB on the M50 at around 1045, was still there at 1230.

This aircraft seemed to have suffered a transponder issue: it had to make the entire t/a journey at FL280 (which must have been quite expensive on fuel!):

http://avherald.com/h?article=44b36f9d&opt=1
 
dstc47
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RE: Irish 4/12: Airborne And Climbing ...

Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:30 am

Forgot to remind you all of the RTE programme on SNN last night. Worth catching up.

Somewhat more interesting but made no mention of the Soviet fuel base period and rather long on the "Shannon has overcome challenges before" rhetoric to address current problems. A good number of errors also, especially in the initial section but some interesting film, but edited rather out of chronology however. Interesting to see a glimpse of our current President at a Shannon protest concerning US troop movements also.

[Edited 2012-02-21 01:31:51]
 
Clydenairways
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RE: Irish 4/12: Airborne And Climbing ...

Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:54 am

Quoting dstc47 (Reply 16):
Somewhat more interesting but made no mention of the Soviet fuel base period and rather long on the "Shannon has overcome challenges before" rhetoric to address current problems. A good number of errors also, especially in the initial section but some interesting film, but edited rather out of chronology however. Interesting to see a glimpse of our current President at a Shannon protest concerning US troop movements also.

I'd agree with that, they also failed to mention that the ending of the stopover was a requirement under the open skies policy. But he did get to throw in "Politicians in Dublin".

For an Airport with so much history, the film should have been much better. But some nice clips all the same.
 
EI747SYDNEY
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RE: Irish 4/12: Airborne And Climbing ...

Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:04 am

Hi Guys,

Does anyone know when the Air China 744 is departing DUB??

Maybe it already has  

     
''Live life on the edge, Live each and every day like it's your last, Hell you only live once''
 
dstc47
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RE: Irish 4/12: Airborne And Climbing ...

Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:12 am

 
eirbus06
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RE: Irish 4/12: Airborne And Climbing ...

Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:44 am

Quoting EI747SYDNEY (Reply 18):

Sorry but it left DUB for turkey yesterday.  
 
EI747SYDNEY
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RE: Irish 4/12: Airborne And Climbing ...

Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:57 am

Quoting eirbus06 (Reply 20):
Sorry but it left DUB for turkey yesterday

Damn!!!  

I wonder what the next big attraction for us in Dublin/Ireland will be??

Any ideas? Insights? On future visitors

     
''Live life on the edge, Live each and every day like it's your last, Hell you only live once''
 
Irishbean
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RE: Irish 4/12: Airborne And Climbing ...

Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:28 am

Can anybody help me out with a question, I fly to SFO now on a near monthly basis, currently via LHR on BA, there are options with other airlines, however, what airlines flying into Ireland have 'fully flat beds' in business class? and from where? AA from ORD is lie flat, or it was a few months ago when I took it. Aerlingus is lie flat, but I have been told this may be upgraded sometime in the future to fully flat, anyone more information on this? Delta? US? any others?
 
tonymctigue
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RE: Irish 4/12: Airborne And Climbing ...

Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:44 pm

Quoting clydenairways (Reply 17):
For an Airport with so much history, the film should have been much better. But some nice clips all the same.

I must admit, I was rather disappointed also. No mention either of the massive engineering challenge posed by the construction of the airfield which was at the time a model example of controlling ground settlements to ensure the entire airfield settled uniformly. Incidentially, for anyone who may find themselves in the Civil Engineering building at NUIG, their is a brief but nontheless quite detailed display board erected by Engineers Ireland in one of the corridors that gives details of the engineering problems that arose during the construction of the airfield. I know there was some mention of the "Politicians in Dublin" line but at least those interviewed presented their argument in a clear, calm way that explained why it is such an emotive issue amongst the peolple of the the region rather than some local politician shouting and banging their fist using SNN purely to score votes with the electorate.
Airports: SNN GWY NOC DUB ORK BOS EWR JFK ORD MCI BOI SEA LHR STN CDG LYS FAO GVA HKG MEL ADL HBA
 
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AmricanShamrok
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RE: Irish 4/12: Airborne And Climbing ...

Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:45 pm

Quoting irishbean (Reply 22):
however, what airlines flying into Ireland have 'fully flat beds' in business class? and from where?

All United flights between Shannon and Newark have fully flat beds in BusinessFirst.
 
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OA260
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RE: Irish 4/12: Airborne And Climbing ...

Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:06 pm

Quoting IRISH251 (Reply 8):

Great shots as usual .   Nice to see these rare A/C at DUB .
 
tonymctigue
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RE: Irish 4/12: Airborne And Climbing ...

Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:38 pm

Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 24):
All United flights between Shannon and Newark have fully flat beds in BusinessFirst.

Speaking of UA, it seems as if the additional flights that CO have been operating on the SNN-EWR route for the past two years are no longer bookable which is a pity and more than a bit of a setback. My guess would be that the B757 that was originally set to operate the additional rotations has been switched to DUB-IAD. I wonder however seen as there is obviously enough demand, would CO consider operating SNN-EWR with a B767-300 or even a B767-400 for the summer months?
Airports: SNN GWY NOC DUB ORK BOS EWR JFK ORD MCI BOI SEA LHR STN CDG LYS FAO GVA HKG MEL ADL HBA
 
eicvd
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RE: Irish 4/12: Airborne And Climbing ...

Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:04 pm

Quoting tonymctigue (Reply 26):
My guess would be that the B757 that was originally set to operate the additional rotations has been switched to DUB-IAD.

The a/c that is too fly that route used to fly the 2nd daily EWR-DUB, that flight has also been scrapped!
COYBIB
 
ein105
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RE: Irish 4/12: Airborne And Climbing ...

Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:06 pm

The aircraft operating DUB-IAD was taken from the 2nd daily DUB-EWR service, not the extra SNN-EWR service. I think the reduction in EWR flights from Ireland is a sign of UA looking to maximise yields. Competing with US and DL for connecting traffic, And DL/EI for local traffic can't be easy when the market is so weak
 
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AmricanShamrok
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RE: Irish 4/12: Airborne And Climbing ...

Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:41 pm

Quoting tonymctigue (Reply 26):
Speaking of UA, it seems as if the additional flights that CO have been operating on the SNN-EWR route for the past two years are no longer bookable which is a pity and more than a bit of a setback.

This was reported in the last thread - the UA66/UA67 rotation is not going ahead now as planned. It had been bookable on United.com/Continental.com for a good few weeks. The UA126/UA127 (formerly DUB-EWR flights) will operate DUB-IAD now instead with the same flight numbers.

I wonder will Delta ever bring back SNN-ATL on the 757?
 
ein105
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RE: Irish 4/12: Airborne And Climbing ...

Tue Feb 21, 2012 8:53 pm

Quoting irishbean (Reply 22):
Can anybody help me out with a question, I fly to SFO now on a near monthly basis, currently via LHR on BA, there are options with other airlines, however, what airlines flying into Ireland have 'fully flat beds' in business class? and from where? AA from ORD is lie flat, or it was a few months ago when I took it. Aerlingus is lie flat, but I have been told this may be upgraded sometime in the future to fully flat, anyone more information on this? Delta? US? any others?

CO offers fully flat seats on its Ireland-EWR service; EWR-SFO would be the older cradle First Class seats.
EI is lie flat, although there are rumors of a fully flat seat being fitted, or their current seats being adapted to go fully flat.
DL's JFK and ATL flights will operate with 767 equipment this summer, which have older cradle style seats
US's PHL service has lie-flat seats.

Flying via LHR is the easiest way at the moment to guarantee a fully flat seat, and to ensure a fully flat seat for the majority of your journey.
 
bx737
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RE: Irish 4/12: Airborne And Climbing ...

Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:27 am

I see from Travelmole.com that Ryanair is suing Budget Travel over selling Ryanair tickets to customers of Budget Travel without passing on passenger information to Ryanair. Ryanair are also complaining about the fees Budget Travel are charging to book Ryanair flights. (The Budget Travel name was taken over by Club Travel).

Ryanair is also cutting back at Edinburgh due to the unwillingness of EDI to cut its charges to Ryanair. The airline is pulling one aircraft with the threat of pulling more. This is also from Travelmole. This is being discussed in FR Axing EDI Services (by TCASAlert Feb 21 2012 in Civil Aviation)

[Edited 2012-02-22 00:33:07]
 
grimey
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RE: Irish 4/12: Airborne And Climbing ...

Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:50 am

Well who is going to buy the governments part in EI?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0222/state_assets.html

No sale will happen this year and EI will only be sold when the market is good. Will it really be worth selling?
 
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AmricanShamrok
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RE: Irish 4/12: Airborne And Climbing ...

Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:38 pm

An American Airlines flight (AA109 LHR-BOS, a Boeing 757-200) was diverted to Shannon today and was on-stand between 14:21 and 16:42. Presumably a medical diversion.
 
SURFER
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RE: Irish 4/12: Airborne And Climbing ...

Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:47 pm

Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 33):
An American Airlines flight (AA109 LHR-BOS, a Boeing 757-200) was diverted to Shannon today and was on-stand between 14:21 and 16:42. Presumably a medical diversion.

I arrived into work at 3 and just met the ambulance pulling away from the direction of the aircaft.Dont know what exactly was the condition of the passenger who was taken off.It was AAL109 from LHR to BOS.

[Edited 2012-02-22 10:12:22]
 
tonymctigue
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RE: Irish 4/12: Airborne And Climbing ...

Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:47 pm

Hey guys, I've got a question I need to ask on behalf of someone who contacted me through YouTube after seeing one of my spotting videos taken at SNN of CO25 departing SNN for EWR made in 2007. I directed him here but he only has a photographers account and therefore cannot post to the discussion boards. He is doing a school project and was asking me if I had any videos of DL122/DL123 at SNN during that same year. He needs to know what aircraft type DL were using at the time. As far as I can recall, DL were using a B767-400ER for both SNN-JFK and SNN-ATL routes during that summer. He thinks it was a B767-300ER. Can anyone here confirm which aircraft type it was?
Airports: SNN GWY NOC DUB ORK BOS EWR JFK ORD MCI BOI SEA LHR STN CDG LYS FAO GVA HKG MEL ADL HBA
 
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AmricanShamrok
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RE: Irish 4/12: Airborne And Climbing ...

Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:05 pm

Quoting tonymctigue (Reply 35):
As far as I can recall, DL were using a B767-400ER for both SNN-JFK and SNN-ATL routes during that summer. He thinks it was a B767-300ER. Can anyone here confirm which aircraft type it was?

I'll be able to confirm for you at the weekend if you don't get an answer by then (I don't have the Summer 2007 timetable to hand at the minute). But I'm fairly certain they operated the 764 on both routes...though they weren't using the DL122/DL123 flight numbers on SNN-JFK at the time. It was something like DL112 and another one as far as I can remember.
 
gosimeon
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RE: Irish 4/12: Airborne And Climbing ...

Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:52 pm

Seeing as the Shannon documentary aired this week, it seems apt discussion about the future of the aiport is in the news again. According to Dómhnal Slattery, CEO of Avalon, it would do great if privatised! I'm guessing that any private buyer would not want to buy the debt with it though? Anyway, he says it's future lies in cargo, and if it doesn't adjust soon things look bleak. An interesting article, what do you all think?

"My feeling is the future for Shannon is not in passenger air travel. There will be passengers going in and out of there — we do need to have a hub airline, whether it is a low-cost carrier like Ryanair — but the future for Shannon lies in being a global cargo hub. Cargo is growing at twice the rate of passenger travel all over the world so cargo is a very sustainable business. It is the place to be and Shannon and its environs is ideally positioned and if you could turn it in to a global cargo hub, the number of people working in the airport would be multiplied dramatically."


http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland...s-future-lies-in-cargo-184461.html
 
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OA260
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RE: Irish 4/12: Airborne And Climbing ...

Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:14 am

Quoting bx737 (Reply 31):

Seems FR dont like Club Travel ! They were also targeted a few years back about screen scraping and setting up a travel agents website "Booking engine" for FR flights.
 
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AmricanShamrok
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RE: Irish 4/12: Airborne And Climbing ...

Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:11 pm

Reported on Kerry Airport's official Facebook page they are working on bringing back Kerry-Weeze with Ryanair. Don't know how reliable this is as there are lots of grammatical errors and very informal dialogue on KIR's part!
 
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OA260
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RE: Irish 4/12: Airborne And Climbing ...

Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:14 pm

About as live as it gets   EI - DEO Just departed for ORK .

http://i955.photobucket.com/albums/ae40/PhilipOA260/66893550.jpg

http://i955.photobucket.com/albums/ae40/PhilipOA260/89311f5b.jpg
 
EI747SYDNEY
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RE: Irish 4/12: Airborne And Climbing ...

Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:18 pm

I had the Aerfort programme on Sky and finally got a chance to watch it last night.

Have to say some really nice shots of the Aer Lingus jets and the unique luxurious experience that went with air travel back in its hey day.


EI should have had an Irish Aviation museum located near to Shannon Airport with some of its old 707s etc on display!

What do you guys think??

     
''Live life on the edge, Live each and every day like it's your last, Hell you only live once''
 
LGWflyer
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RE: Irish 4/12: Airborne And Climbing ...

Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:51 pm

Quoting OA260 (Reply 40):
About as live as it gets EI - DEO Just departed for ORK .

Great pics, the green really stands out! Just had a check on Radar24, the aircraft is currently flying over Lisbon as of now.
3 words... I Love Aviation!!!
 
Cabincrewifly
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RE: Irish 4/12: Airborne And Climbing ...

Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:15 pm

Quoting OA260 (Reply 40):
About as live as it gets EI - DEO Just departed for ORK .

Flew her the other day on ORK LHR ORK  
EI FR RE EIR IWD MA FUA
 
dstc47
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RE: Irish 4/12: Airborne And Climbing ...

Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:17 pm

Quoting EI747SYDNEY (Reply 41):
EI should have had an Irish Aviation museum located near to Shannon Airport with some of its old 707s etc on display!

Indeed.

I am afraid that with a very few exceptions, interest in aircraft preservation, especially civil aircraft, is not a feature of the Irish Republic. Many years ago there was a small aviation display in the terminal at Dublin airport run by Aer Rianta. Later a small private aviation museum at Waterford had some aircraft, since dispersed. The collection at Foynes has no aircraft. The public authorities could not be bothered, even when there was plenty of money, to create an aviation themed museum anywhere to preserve any civil aircraft with Irish connections anywhere in the republic.

(Aer Lingus did restore a DH Dragon and the air corps have preserved some of their aircraft.)

However, aircraft in the Republic - no official civil preservation.
 
tonymctigue
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RE: Irish 4/12: Airborne And Climbing ...

Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:17 pm

Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 36):
I'll be able to confirm for you at the weekend if you don't get an answer by then (I don't have the Summer 2007 timetable to hand at the minute). But I'm fairly certain they operated the 764 on both routes...though they weren't using the DL122/DL123 flight numbers on SNN-JFK at the time. It was something like DL112 and another one as far as I can remember.

That's what I though. I wonder could DL have been using both the B767-300ER and the B767-400ER over that summer as this guy thinks he travelled on a B767-300ER that same summer. If you do find your timetable, the please let me know. Thanks for your help.
Airports: SNN GWY NOC DUB ORK BOS EWR JFK ORD MCI BOI SEA LHR STN CDG LYS FAO GVA HKG MEL ADL HBA
 
tonymctigue
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RE: Irish 4/12: Airborne And Climbing ...

Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:47 pm

Seems like the Galway Airport saga will rumble on into March at least

Do or Die for Galway Airport

http://galwayindependent.com/stories...012-8/Do-or-die-for-Galway-Airport
Airports: SNN GWY NOC DUB ORK BOS EWR JFK ORD MCI BOI SEA LHR STN CDG LYS FAO GVA HKG MEL ADL HBA
 
Cabincrewifly
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RE: Irish 4/12: Airborne And Climbing ...

Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:55 pm

Quoting tonymctigue (Reply 46):
Do or Die for Galway Airport

My gut feeling is that RE won't return to GWY, but could a few EIR services to MAN, BHX, and maybe a London Airport work?
EI FR RE EIR IWD MA FUA
 
dstc47
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RE: Irish 4/12: Airborne And Climbing ...

Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:00 am

GWY story :" We have a licensed aerodrome on the edge of the third largest city in Ireland."

Somebody forgot either Belfast or Cork, or have these places left the island now? Rather characteristic of the self importance that underpins much of the debate about regional air services or facilities.
 
Eagleboy
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RE: Irish 4/12: Airborne And Climbing ...

Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:28 am

Spot on, self importance in that statement. Sounds impressive until you realise there is no business market as the quoted city has cheaper and more efficient road/rail links to the Largest city. Surely using that rationale Weston as "a licensed aerodrome on the edge of THE largest city in Ireland" has a better business case?

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