tcasalert
Topic Author
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FR Axing EDI Services

Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:23 am

"Low-cost airline Ryanair is set to announce cuts in the number of services it operates in and out of Edinburgh Airport.

The carrier has been negotiating with operators BAA for a reduction in the charges it pays for using the airport."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-17101488

Seems like another airport FR are unhappy with. Any idea which routes will go?
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santos
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RE: FR Axing EDI Services

Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:49 am

Quoting TCASAlert (Thread starter):
Any idea which routes will go?

According to their website they will close Berlin, Malmo, Murcia, Ibiza and Tallin.

FR announced that it would cut its base at Edinburgh from 7 to 6 aircraft, with the loss of 5 routes, 300,000 pax p.a., leading to the loss of up to 300 jobs, following the breakdown of negotiations with the high cost BAA Edinburgh about a competitive cost base for further Ryanair growth at Edinburgh. Ryanair also warned that BAA Edinburgh’s high cost base will lead to significant further cuts in Ryanair’s operation, if its 5 year agreement (which expires in Oct 2012) is not extended on more competitive terms.

It always amazes me their calculation of job losses, surely 1 less aircraft and 5 less routes will add to the loss of 300 jobs ate the airport?
http://www.ryanair.com/en/news/ryana...fic-by-15-percent-from-summer-2012
 
jamesontheroad
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RE: FR Axing EDI Services

Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:59 am

Blah blah blah. Usual toys-thrown-out-of-the-pram behaviour. FR are simply making their negotiations with BAA a little more public, trying to stir up the image of FR as the people's airline and BAA as the big bad evil empire screwing over the little guy.

FR have never explained (or even provided statistical evidence) to support their claim of 1 FR plane / 5 FR routes = x jobs; it's just the usual marketing bull that is copy-pasted into every single press release they push out. It gives Ryanair the chance to axe weaker routes while blaming BAA.

MAN famously said "no thanks" to FR's negotiating tactics. They left and were back again within five years.
 
neutral
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RE: FR Axing EDI Services

Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:23 am

Quoting jamesontheroad (Reply 2):
Blah blah blah. Usual toys-thrown-out-of-the-pram behaviour. FR are simply making their negotiations with BAA a little more public, trying to stir up the image of FR as the people's airline and BAA as the big bad evil empire screwing over the little guy.

FR have never explained (or even provided statistical evidence) to support their claim of 1 FR plane / 5 FR routes = x jobs; it's just the usual marketing bull that is copy-pasted into every single press release they push out. It gives Ryanair the chance to axe weaker routes while blaming BAA.

MAN famously said "no thanks" to FR's negotiating tactics. They left and were back again within five years.

Have to agree totally with the above Ryanair have cut back a lot at Dublin the last few years much to Aer Lingus's delight who are the number 1 carrier passenger wise from Dublin again....
 
ScottishDavie
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RE: FR Axing EDI Services

Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:34 am

Quoting jamesontheroad (Reply 2):
It gives Ryanair the chance to axe weaker routes while blaming BAA.

I don't know details of the load factors on the affected routes but EDI-SXF competes with U2's longer-established GLA-SXF route. Speaking purely personally, I'd rather drive the extra 20 miles to GLA and travel with a reasonably civilised airline and I certainly don't see the ending of EDI-SXF as a great loss to aviation in Scotland
 
UAL777UK
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RE: FR Axing EDI Services

Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:38 am

How dare BAA Edinburgh not fall over backwards to FR and there demands....tut tut. FR need to look at their own costs before blaming every single airport that dares to charge them, its becoming a bit boring all this. Where FR withdraws I am sure another will step in or at least offer a viable alternative.

Quoting jamesontheroad (Reply 2):
MAN famously said "no thanks" to FR's negotiating tactics. They left and were back again within five years

I would not be surprised to see similar at EDI
 
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GCT64
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RE: FR Axing EDI Services

Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:19 pm

Quoting ScottishDavie (Reply 4):
I certainly don't see the ending of EDI-SXF as a great loss to aviation in Scotland

My company has our main factory near EDI and an office near SXF (BER to be), so we have been regular users of this route. From our perspective it would be very disappointing to see it go. None of the other destinations under threat would have any impact on our business.
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BestWestern
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RE: FR Axing EDI Services

Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:20 pm

To stand up for Ryanair, this is all to do with revenues. Excluding short turbo prop routes, If FR cannot make a VFR or leisure route work from the UK, nobody can.
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shufflemoomin
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RE: FR Axing EDI Services

Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:24 pm

Quoting santos (Reply 1):
According to their website they will close Berlin, Malmo, Murcia, Ibiza and Tallin.

I didn't even know they were flying into Malmø again. One of my problems with Ryanair is that they start up and drop new routes constantly and it becomes impossible to keep track of what they offer unless you're keeping very close watch. Even when do come across a useful route, you can't rely on it being around for long. Very consumer unfriendly, in my opinion.

As for them through the toys out the pram unless they get lower fees again, well, that's just the status quo, isn't it? I wish more airports would stand up to them and let them walk away. Ryanair forget they need airports just as much as the airports need them.
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: FR Axing EDI Services

Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:26 pm

The course of action that Ryanair take in negotiations must be one of the most confrontational out there.

They must be running out of airports and routes at this rate with all the enemies they make  

[Edited 2012-02-21 04:26:40]
 
BestWestern
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RE: FR Axing EDI Services

Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:43 pm

With the collapse of eastern European carriers like Malev, there are plenty of opportunities for FR to expand at low cost.
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nef
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RE: FR Axing EDI Services

Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:43 pm

If I was being cynical I would say that this is typical FR - pull routes that you don't fancy any more and blame the airport charges! Certainly a shot across the bows of both BAA and the future owners.

Quoting GCT64:
My company has our main factory near EDI and an office near SXF (BER to be), so we have been regular users of this route. From our perspective it would be very disappointing to see it go. None of the other destinations under threat would have any impact on our business.

Whilst I take your point, afaik the EDI-SXF has already been non-op over this winter, so it's not a massive surprise to see it go. At the end of the day EZY op SXF-GLA at a generally higher frequency then FR ever operated the EDI servIce and the Edinburgh area is within an hours drive of GLA, so I don't think accessibility is massively compromised. Similarly IBZ and MJV are already served by LS and Malmo can be easily reached via CPH from both EDI and GLA.
 
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GCT64
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RE: FR Axing EDI Services

Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:06 pm

Quoting nef (Reply 11):
Quoting GCT64:My company has our main factory near EDI and an office near SXF (BER to be), so we have been regular users of this route. From our perspective it would be very disappointing to see it go. None of the other destinations under threat would have any impact on our business.
Whilst I take your point, afaik the EDI-SXF has already been non-op over this winter, so it's not a massive surprise to see it go. At the end of the day EZY op SXF-GLA at a generally higher frequency then FR ever operated the EDI servIce and the Edinburgh area is within an hours drive of GLA, so I don't think accessibility is massively compromised

All valid - and we do use the Easy GLA-SXF service from time to time. With the move to shiny new BER from not-very-shiny not-very-pleasant SXF, I imagine FR will also have cost issues at the Berlin end. The consensus in the office is that we would like AB or Germanwings to replace FR on EDI-BER!
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lukeyboy95
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RE: FR Axing EDI Services

Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:49 pm

Quoting jamesontheroad (Reply 2):
Blah blah blah. Usual toys-thrown-out-of-the-pram behaviour. FR are simply making their negotiations with BAA a little more public, trying to stir up the image of FR as the people's airline and BAA as the big bad evil empire screwing over the little guy.

FR have never explained (or even provided statistical evidence) to support their claim of 1 FR plane / 5 FR routes = x jobs; it's just the usual marketing bull that is copy-pasted into every single press release they push out. It gives Ryanair the chance to axe weaker routes while blaming BAA.

Certainly not a Ryanair basher, but I entirely agree with your comments. It is a rather tedious game they play, and thankfully, is getting less and less sympathy. This strategy might work in obscure airports that have only become active/ prosperous because of FR (e.g.PIK), but at a large, diverse and central airport such as EDI, this is a laughable tactic.

Quoting GCT64 (Reply 12):
we would like AB or Germanwings to replace FR on EDI-BER!

That would be an excellent addition, as economically, it would be good to maintain this capital-capital city link. . .
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ScottishDavie
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RE: FR Axing EDI Services

Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:33 pm

Quoting GCT64 (Reply 6):
My company has our main factory near EDI and an office near SXF (BER to be), so we have been regular users of this route. From our perspective it would be very disappointing to see it go.

I did stress that I was stating my personal opinion and I fully understand that others will feel differently. However the opening of the M74 extension has made it much easier to circumnavigate Glasgow even at peak times and GLA is now a lot more accessible to the good folks in the east.

Quoting GCT64 (Reply 12):
The consensus in the office is that we would like .... Germanwings to replace FR on EDI-BER!

Excellent idea! 4U have flown the EDI-CGN route for years and I've used it many times, most recently last September. They still seem to maintain good load factors despite some competition from U2. It would be great if they could be persuaded to take on EDI-SXF. It might even force them to do something about their ground handling in EDI which is consistently awful and the only downside to travelling with one of the best LCCs in Europe
 
jamesontheroad
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RE: FR Axing EDI Services

Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:00 pm

Quoting lukeyboy95 (Reply 13):
Certainly not a Ryanair basher, but I entirely agree with your comments. It is a rather tedious game they play, and thankfully, is getting less and less sympathy. This strategy might work in obscure airports that have only become active/ prosperous because of FR (e.g.PIK), but at a large, diverse and central airport such as EDI, this is a laughable tactic.

In fact the strategy seems to be working best in central and eastern Europe. I can't back this up with any route statistics (because it's so difficult to keep track of all the routes that have been announced, launched, actually flown and then cancelled) but over my living memory of using Ryanair (10+ years) there seems to me to have been a very clear shift from the west of Europe towards the east.

Here in the UK and RoI, perhaps also in western continental Europe, FR is struggling to maintain its popularity. Who'd have thought that Aer Lingus and even Aer Lingus Regional would now have greater frequency and more passengers between DUB and certain UK cities than FR (eg, EI-R between DUB and GLA, soon five daily against FR's once daily PIK-DUB).

FR's continual growth is sustained by moving into new markets where passengers less familiar with FR's "like it or **** off" terms are prepared to give it a go because the price is right. The old markets of FR, meanwhile are withering away because we're all so fatigued or their business model.
 
Humberside
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RE: FR Axing EDI Services

Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:07 pm

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 7):
If FR cannot make a VFR or leisure route work from the UK, nobody can.

Bit ironic you say that when 2 of the 5 cancelled routes, Ibiza and Murcia, are established Jet 2 routes

Quoting GCT64 (Reply 12):
The consensus in the office is that we would like AB or Germanwings to replace FR on EDI-BER!

I'd be surprised to see Germanwings on EDI-BER; their BER presense is being reduced IIRC in favour of LH 'mainline'
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Eagleboy
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RE: FR Axing EDI Services

Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:52 am

Quoting nef (Reply 11):
If I was being cynical I would say that this is typical FR - pull routes that you don't fancy any more and blame the airport charges!
Quoting shufflemoomin (Reply 8):
I didn't even know they were flying into Malmø again.

FR announced they are axing 5 routes, 3 of these haven't even started yet. They were announced in January and now axed. TLL was a winter seasonal route anyway.

I would hazard a guess that forward bookings have not been positive so FR are going to use that aircraft to operate a more profitable route elsewhere in Europe. But of course they need the PR spin to blame someone else.......
 
ScottishDavie
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RE: FR Axing EDI Services

Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:59 am

Interesting editorial in today's (Glasgow) Herald newspaper, the most authoritative Scottish broadsheet:

http://www.heraldscotland.com/commen...at-has-failed-to-take-off.16821695

The paper confirms what Eagleboy says above -

"Mr O'Leary has a reputation for exaggeration. Of the five routes to be "axed", the three to Malmo in Sweden, and Murcia and Ibiza in Spain have only recently been announced and have not commenced. The Berlin route was due to end in May and the fifth route, to the Estonian capital Tallinn, has not flown since last November. As for the jobs claim, Ryanair does not employ any staff directly at the airport and BAA denied yesterday that there would be any job losses among the 500 Edinburgh staff. At worst there could a limited knock-on impact on tourism-related jobs and baggage handlers".

[Edited 2012-02-22 01:02:16]
 
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metalinyoni
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RE: FR Axing EDI Services

Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:28 am

Personally I think its time for MOL to move on. No one can argue that the man hasn't done a good job but the LCC market is maturing and that the very aggressive attitude that has brought them success may not continue to do so. If EI can make 5 daily DUB-GLA work but FR can only do one DUB-PIK then its not airport charges that's the problem but something else.

I have nothing against Ryanair personally as I fly them regularly BRS-DUB but if EI fares are the same as FR on the route I will always take EI (very seldom are the fares close though) and I suspect that I am not alone in that - if FR and another airline have the same fares I would always take the other airline.

I have been hoping for a big 737 Max order from FR but at this rate I don't think we will see it for a while yet!
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lukeyboy95
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RE: FR Axing EDI Services

Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:21 pm

Quoting jamesontheroad (Reply 15):
Here in the UK and RoI, perhaps also in western continental Europe, FR is struggling to maintain its popularity. Who'd have thought that Aer Lingus and even Aer Lingus Regional would now have greater frequency and more passengers between DUB and certain UK cities than FR (eg, EI-R between DUB and GLA, soon five daily against FR's once daily PIK-DUB).

It is an absolute truth, I think they're glory days on this side of Europe are numbered. People much happier to pay a bit extra to fly with more respected (service-wise) airlines. Ryanair have aligned their fares much more to these carriers of recent times too - with sales normally no less than a tenner, but then add all the other baloney on.

Quoting metalinyoni (Reply 19):
I have been hoping for a big 737 Max order from FR but at this rate I don't think we will see it for a while yet!

Somehow, I can't quite see a super-order coming to FR any time soon. But an aircraft change, could represent a move into a more subtle business model. This current one does not really set the airline up for long-term prosperity. As James mentioned above, there is a geographical movement into new territories, as the old ones get fed up.
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fox1
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RE: FR Axing EDI Services

Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:42 pm

FR have exhausted any sympathy from the wee guys..they are increasingly coming across as a rapacious
multi-national whose least interest is in providing cheap flights for the masses. Far from it, one needs an IT degree
to avoid the pitfalls of pricing traps in their booking process.. FWIW what happens to all those unclaimed taxes for flights not taken? Do they go to the government or into the profit coffers of Ryanair.?

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