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g38
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V-tail 737

Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:51 am

I know there have been a couple of topics similar to this, but the two I looked at were both locked, so I'm starting a new one to post my question.

In the movie Iron Man, there is a strangely modified 737 with a V-tail and what appears to be a third engine. I googled it and came across a picture of it. Apparently the studio really did modify a 737 for the film. What I want to know is is there any chance it was flyable? The design looks plausible, but if it had actually flown I think I would have heard about it.

Link to photo:

http://attachments.conceptart.org/fo...chmentid=374266&stc=1&d=1211426256
 
rfields5421
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RE: V-tail 737

Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:57 am

I don't think it was a real modified aircraft, rather a CGI mockup. What they can do with CGI and PhotoShop is simply amazing.

Even if they did go with the much more expensive option to modify a real aircraft, it would not have had any working engines, and certainly not one placed in the tail. Would not be flyable because of the lack of connections for a working engine. Why bother? Too expensive.

[Edited 2012-03-08 17:58:58]
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burnsie28
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RE: V-tail 737

Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:59 am

I assume that they just removed the tail of the 737 and then put this fake cap over the top and added some fake engine covers and wing tips. I don't think based off the looks of the stabilizers they put on the back of the plane it would be stable enough, but I am not an aerospace engineer so I don't know for sure.
 
gothamspotter
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RE: V-tail 737

Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:07 am

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 1):
I don't think it was a real modified aircraft, rather a CGI mockup. What they can do with CGI and PhotoShop is simply amazing.

Look at the photo...it's real.
 
Viscount724
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RE: V-tail 737

Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:23 am

Quoting gothamspotter (Reply 3):
Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 1):
I don't think it was a real modified aircraft, rather a CGI mockup. What they can do with CGI and PhotoShop is simply amazing.

Look at the photo...it's real.

No, it's CGI. You'll find numerous references. Here's an earlier A.net thread.
Iron Man/ Stark Enterprise 737 BBJ (by Albird87 May 5 2008 in Civil Aviation)

Many other references in other sources.
 
g38
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RE: V-tail 737

Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:02 am

I don't believe it! I thought the photo was real. Infact I'm still not entirely convinced its not, but here's an article written by that guy who apparently did the CG. There really was a 737 on set, but it didn't look like this. Too bad.


article:

http://philsaunders.blogspot.com/200...and-on-that-subject-stark-jet.html
 
avroarrow
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RE: V-tail 737

Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:19 am

Real or not it looks pretty darned cool. I like how the inlet sides of the engines are all distorted too, or maybe its just my eyes playing tricks on me?
Give me a mile of road and I can take you a mile. Give me a mile of runway and I can show you the world.
 
737tdi
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RE: V-tail 737

Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:36 am

It has one too many flap fairings outbd. of the engine. There are 3 and should only be two, #7 and #8 flap transmissions/mechanism. Very strange looking when you are used to seeing the real thing.
 
fly4film
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RE: V-tail 737

Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:14 am

Hey guys,

You are abviously correct that this aircraft had some CGI work done to it. I had given the production company a long list of available aircraft types for the shoot. They ended up choosing this 737. (registration number N801TJ I believe). Just a good old 737-400 with a normal tail   We had it flown down to Edwards Airforce base for the ground work and we did a good amount of aerial photograghy with it over Southern California, of which about 3 seconds made it to the big screen. The company we rented it from at the time was called Swift Aviation. I do agree the tail they put on that thing sure did look cool especially during the aerial sequence.
 
scouseflyer
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RE: V-tail 737

Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:11 am

Quoting AvroArrow (Reply 6):
Real or not it looks pretty darned cool.

This movie plane was actually modified to look like this but obviously couldn't fly!

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Boein...d=3e1fea6646e9567a703370917c8e1fa2

I think that there was some CGI work done on it though in the film as I think that it looked less 747ish than this.
 
BMI727
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RE: V-tail 737

Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:22 am

Quoting scouseflyer (Reply 9):
This movie plane was actually modified to look like this but obviously couldn't fly!

That plane is actually sitting at the Dunsfold Aerodrome and can often be seen in the background of Top Gear episodes. I believe it was also featured in a Volkswagen Toureg commercial.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
ghifty
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RE: V-tail 737

Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:25 am

"This is just a digital paint-over of a location photo from the shoot. Production Designer Michael Riva kept me honest on proportions, and it turned out much better for it. This and a really crude set of elevations are all ILM went by to create the rather convincing plane shots in the movie."

--Phil Saunder's blog
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AF1624
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RE: V-tail 737

Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:09 am

Quoting scouseflyer (Reply 9):
This movie plane was actually modified to look like this but obviously couldn't fly!

Actually this aircraft doesn't appear in Iron Man.

It does appear, however, in the first Daniel Craig James Bond film, "Casino Royale".
Cheers
 
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atcsundevil
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RE: V-tail 737

Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:09 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 10):

I noticed in an episode a few weeks ago (from the new series) during a power lap that R1 was open with air stairs pulled up -- I guess it does more than just sit there and look pretty (well...different, at least).
 
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DL_Mech
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RE: V-tail 737

Fri Mar 09, 2012 11:04 am

deleted

[Edited 2012-03-09 03:15:41]
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
 
jrowson
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RE: V-tail 737

Fri Mar 09, 2012 11:21 am

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 13):
I noticed in an episode a few weeks ago (from the new series) during a power lap that R1 was open with air stairs pulled up -- I guess it does more than just sit there and look pretty (well...different, at least).

I think the cabin interior was used to shoot scenes for "Come fly with me" (the David Walliams/Matt Lucas comedy reality show) as I watched the "making of" and it appears that they were at Dunsfold.
James Rowson
 
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zkojq
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RE: V-tail 737

Fri Mar 09, 2012 11:37 am

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 10):
That plane is actually sitting at the Dunsfold Aerodrome and can often be seen in the background of Top Gear episodes. I believe it was also featured in a Volkswagen Toureg commercial.

Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOG90IQEbhI
Ironically the production crew and presenter of Fifth Gear were involved in the making of that commercial. Here is their version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i30vZOBcsTg.
Jeremy Clarkson later towed the same aircraft with a farming tractor for an episode of Top Gear.

Sorry that this is a bit off topic.
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Semaex
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RE: V-tail 737

Fri Mar 09, 2012 11:53 am

Does anyone have a picture of this same 737 in the same spot un-CGI'd ?
// You know you're an aviation enthusiast if you look at your neighbour's cars and think about fleet commonality.
 
ghifty
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RE: V-tail 737

Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:19 pm

Quoting Semaex (Reply 17):
Does anyone have a picture of this same 737 in the same spot un-CGI'd ?

Doubtful. The plane is completely de-regged so it'd be hard to figure out exactly which one/where it is. It's actually really good CGI... but at the same time it has to be fake, because I imagine putting something that big on a 737NG's tail would cause it to to go nose-up.
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scouseflyer
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RE: V-tail 737

Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:22 pm

Quoting JRowson (Reply 15):
I think the cabin interior was used to shoot scenes for "Come fly with me" (the David Walliams/Matt Lucas comedy reality show) as I watched the "making of" and it appears that they were at Dunsfold.

I beleive that it was also in that episode of "Spooks" where they took off in a DC9, swapped repeatedly between a 737 and A320 in mid air and then walked down the steps of a 747 !
 
bthebest
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RE: V-tail 737

Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:44 pm

Quoting ghifty (Reply 18):
Doubtful. The plane is completely de-regged so it'd be hard to figure out exactly which one/where it is.
Quoting fly4film (Reply 8):
They ended up choosing this 737. (registration number N801TJ I believe)

He got it right: https://www.airliners.net/photo/Boein...d=5c847a69b348943b8e4c0d151ada81d4

same livery an' all.
 
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DL_Mech
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RE: V-tail 737

Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:52 pm

Quoting Bthebest (Reply 20):
He got it right: https://www.airliners.net/photo/Boein...d=5c847a69b348943b8e4c0d151ada81d4

same livery an' all.

Or N737DX


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This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
 
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Francoflier
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RE: V-tail 737

Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:53 pm

Looks ugly if you ask me.

More like a starship from a cheap science fiction series... and tacky.
A good one for the MAP website at least, if it ever makes it back online.
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fly4film
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RE: V-tail 737

Fri Mar 09, 2012 4:09 pm

It was not N737DX. I was the Aerial Ground Coodinator for the movie. The aircraft I acquired for Iron Man was N 801TJ. At that time Swift had three identical 734s. Including N802TJ.
 
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macsog6
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RE: V-tail 737

Fri Mar 09, 2012 4:55 pm

Besides, as someone who regularly flies a Beech V-35, a v-tail 737 would be more than a handful.
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rikkus67
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RE: V-tail 737

Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:29 pm

It took a while, but I finally found a hint at it being a CGI generated picture. Take a look at the bottom of both engine intakes. You can clearly see the bottom of the port side intake, and it is much rounder than the starboard side. Regardless, the CGI is virtually flawless!
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Beardown91737
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RE: V-tail 737

Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:45 pm

The rear engine would put the Center of Gravity way aft, but the V-tail is much less material than the Horizontal and Vertical Stabilizers on the normal 734. I think with the V tail Bonanza V33 wound up being almost the same weight as the A36, so if that is the same here, it would be too much of an aft CG to be flyable.
135 hrs PIC (mostly PA-28) - not current. Landings at MDW, PIA, JAN.
 
BMI727
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RE: V-tail 737

Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:52 pm

Quoting beardown91737 (Reply 26):
but the V-tail is much less material than the Horizontal and Vertical Stabilizers on the normal 734

Not really. Usually the total area ends up being about the same as with a standard tail. You can cut interference drag a bit though.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
rampart
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RE: V-tail 737

Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:12 pm

Note to future livery designers: v-tails don't offer much space for logos or other corporate identification, unless looking up obliquely (on the ground or in flight). Was it the Eco-jet or something easyJet was proposing a while back, did it have a V-tail?

-Rampart
 
HAL
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RE: V-tail 737

Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:24 pm

To answer the OP's question on whether it would be flyable, the answer is an emphatic 'no'. There isn't nearly enough vertical stabilizer surface. If one of the engines quit, especially on takeoff, there's not enough surface area to overcome the off-center thrust of the other engine, and the aircraft would screw itself into the ground in just a few seconds.

The current crop of modern jetliners have big vertical stabs for a reason - kill one of the big fans out on the wings, and the other one is trying to twist the aircraft sideways. The plane needs the big vertical stab to keep it pointing in the right direction. There's not a lot of leeway to go for a small one either. For instance, the A330-200's tail is a bit taller than the -300's, because it is closer to the center of gravity (shorter arm to work on), therefore needs to be taller to get the same amount of force to counteract a single-engine operation.

The vertical surfaces on the plane in the movie wouldn't be nearly big enough to do the job. When I saw Iron Man the first time, I cringed at the though of something like that flying, after spending so many hours training in the sim with just one engine working.

HAL
One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
 
LimaNiner
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RE: V-tail 737

Fri Mar 09, 2012 11:41 pm

Quoting rampart (Reply 28):
Note to future livery designers: v-tails don't offer much space for logos or other corporate identification, unless looking up obliquely (on the ground or in flight).

I hate to break it to 'ya, but anyone with Tony Stark's chops wouldn't bother with a painted logo -- he'd use a holographic projection.  

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