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modesto2
Topic Author
Posts: 2731
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2000 3:44 am

MD-11...what Happened?

Tue Oct 10, 2000 9:31 am

The MD-11 was not a great success. With less than 200 in operation, it's not a popular aircraft. Delta has 15, but will ultimately use 777s. American is selling its fleet to FedEx, in favor of the 777s. And I just read that KLM is looking for an MD-11 replacement. With aircraft being delivered through 1998, it's not an old aircraft by any stretch of the imagination. My question is...what happened? Why did the MD-11 program crash and burn? Did airlines, such as Delta and American, make a mistake in adding this aircraft to their fleets? Thanks for the comments and insight.
 
usair1489
Posts: 379
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2000 5:22 am

RE: MD-11...what Happened?

Tue Oct 10, 2000 9:35 am

The story line I heard is that when Boeing and McDonnell Douglas merged, there was too much competition between the 777, MD-11, and A330/A340, and orders for the MD-11 weren't too hot, either, so the only thing left to do was to scratch any more orders for the MD-11. Too bad they had to do that because it looked as if the plane would have some promise in itself... if only McDonnell Douglas could keep with their promises of range, payload, etc.

Steven Holzinger
 
thomacf
Posts: 532
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 9:11 am

RE: MD-11...what Happened?

Tue Oct 10, 2000 10:27 am

I thought that this was also going to be a big hit and TWA, Delta, Continental, United and American would buy these to replace their L-1011's and DC-10's? It was being sold before Boeing developed the 777.
 
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flashmeister
Posts: 2686
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2000 4:32 am

RE: MD-11...what Happened?

Tue Oct 10, 2000 10:29 am

There has been a lot of discussion on this, but it boils down to these points:

- Trijet v. Twinjet. Twins were "in", tri's weren't
- Performance wasn't what McD promised until well after the a/c was first delivered
- McD was in poor financial health, and continuation of the program couldn't be assured

Do a search on MD-11 and you'll get more background.
 
Guest

RE: MD-11...what Happened?

Tue Oct 10, 2000 10:29 am

I read that American was unhappy because when the plane was fully loaded, it couldn't fly the range it was promised it could. Maybe that's a reason why it was unsuccessful.
 
747-451
Posts: 2327
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2000 5:50 am

RE: MD-11...what Happened?

Tue Oct 10, 2000 1:39 pm

The A330/340 and 777 killed it stone dead. Performance issues....
 
northwest 777
Posts: 216
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2000 2:48 am

RE: MD-11...what Happened?

Tue Oct 10, 2000 1:54 pm

So with all these airlines dropping the MD-11s from their fleets, why don't smaller international carriers come along and pick them up at a low price....or is that not really an option?
 
gerardo
Posts: 3372
Joined: Sun May 21, 2000 6:22 pm

RE: MD-11...what Happened?

Tue Oct 10, 2000 3:54 pm

Weel, even for smaller airlines, there are apparently better alternatives, than the MD-11, for example the B767 or the A332, just to name 2 examples.

To my knowledge, the Md-11 got killed because it failed to match the promised perfromance. Above all SQ's decision to cancel the order and to get the MD-11 is said to be the beginning of the end. And of course, aftet the merger with Boeing, there was just too much inhouse competition with the B777.

At ZRH we will see the MD-11 until 2006, when the last one in Swissair colors will leave. Somehow a sad future, but then again....moeny rules.

Regards
Gerardo

dominguez(dash)online(dot)ch ... Pushing the limits of my equipment
 
gerardo
Posts: 3372
Joined: Sun May 21, 2000 6:22 pm

RE: MD-11...what Happened?

Tue Oct 10, 2000 3:55 pm

Weel, even for smaller airlines, there are apparently better alternatives, than the MD-11, for example the B767 or the A332, just to name 2 examples.

To my knowledge, the Md-11 got killed because it failed to match the promised perfromance. Above all SQ's decision to cancel the order and to get the MD-11 is said to be the beginning of the end. And of course, aftet the merger with Boeing, there was just too much inhouse competition with the B777.

At ZRH we will see the MD-11 until 2006, when the last one in Swissair colors will leave. Somehow a sad future, but then again....money rules.

Regards
Gerardo

dominguez(dash)online(dot)ch ... Pushing the limits of my equipment
 
Guest

RE: MD-11...what Happened?

Tue Oct 10, 2000 5:19 pm

Boeing!
 
draigonair
Posts: 624
Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2000 8:37 pm

RE: MD-11...what Happened?

Tue Oct 10, 2000 8:49 pm

Well persononly, i dont like md-11,

and when i was in shanghai a md-11 korean airlines crashed and i went to the crash site...i actually have the altimeter and it says 00008 feet...

nick
cheers
 
flybulldog
Posts: 351
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2000 10:26 pm

RE: MD-11...what Happened?

Tue Oct 10, 2000 11:00 pm

Why is it such a popular freighter? If the performance doesn't make it a good passenger plane, wouldn't it also make it a poor cargo plane?
 
gerardo
Posts: 3372
Joined: Sun May 21, 2000 6:22 pm

RE: MD-11...what Happened?

Tue Oct 10, 2000 11:20 pm

Not really. Apparently it has a good payload, but the range wasn't as promised. While range might be important for pax destinations, it is apparently less important for freighter operations with less direct flights.

Regards
Gerardo
dominguez(dash)online(dot)ch ... Pushing the limits of my equipment
 
N863DA
Posts: 1140
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:36 am

RE: MD-11...what Happened?

Tue Oct 10, 2000 11:57 pm

The MD-11 was introduced too early. (IE too soon since production began) and it could be said that with the time (and cost) overruns that MDC incurred, it was rushed into service.

As soon as the fifth test flight, it became apparent that the MD-11 was not meeting fuel consumption requirements. As a result, the initial batch were not up to scratch to achieve Dallas & Atlanta to Tokyo - a prime route for the two launch carriers.

The initial aircraft were modified by adding additional fuel tanks, and all latter aircraft did not have the shortcomings, but those first few months did the damage to the MD-11's reputation. The aircraft has never performed 100%, altho very near, and with the introduction of the 777 in 1995 the MD-11 program was doomed, as the 777 has better-than-promised economics.

Delta's aircraft that fly ATL-NRT have to have additional tanks located in the cargo compartment, taking up valuable cargo space, to make the flight. A 777 would need no such addition. But for all that, the MD-11 is loved by passengers and crew alike. (as is the 777)

The MD-11 has more underfloor cargo space than the 747-400, meaning that a Cargo aircraft has space comparable to that of a 747-400 - with slightly less range. The MD-11's non-stop range is 7,300 miles, (when it was projected to be 7,550) and the freighter's range is around 4,200 miles.

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