FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Plane Off Taxiway @ ATL

Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:06 pm

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 46):
Interesting ATC ground would authorize nighttime towing especially in fog and at the U.S. busiest airport.

Does anybody foresee the FAA placing restrictions on nighttime towing when the taxiways are used; limiting/restricting towing to between one hour after sunset and one hour before sunrise?

It was not being towed. The a/c was under power.
What gets measured gets done.
 
GentFromAlaska
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RE: Plane Off Taxiway @ ATL

Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:16 pm

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 50):
It was not being towed. The a/c was under power.

"a maintenance person was moving the plane when it went off the taxiway around 5 a.m. Delta spokesman Eric Torbenson said two maintenance workers were on the plane testing the engines when there was a braking system failure"

My bad!

For my own knowledge; not being overly familiar with airport infrastructure, is there any difference between and Apron and a taxiway or are they one in the same. Also in my mind a maintenance worker would have to a pilot rating to be behind the controls correct?
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readytotaxi
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RE: Plane Off Taxiway @ ATL

Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:21 pm

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 51):
Also in my mind a maintenance worker would have to a pilot rating to be behind the controls correct?

Isnt there a rating of "licenced to Taxi" or something similar without being Pilot rated?
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DiamondFlyer
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RE: Plane Off Taxiway @ ATL

Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:42 pm

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 51):
Also in my mind a maintenance worker would have to a pilot rating to be behind the controls correct?

No. They may or may not even have to have a "license" to taxi the aircraft, depending on the airline.

-DiamondFlyer
From my cold, dead hands
 
dl1011
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RE: Plane Off Taxiway @ ATL

Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:44 pm

Quoting jetskipper (Reply 39):
Yes, they could have. However since there were mechanics at the controls as opposed to pilots, their first instincts may have not been to use reverse thrust, where as a pilot would have more like reacted as such.

It might be a bit early to speculate on causes or reactions. However, a possible reason for the brakes releasing could be a lack of hydraulic pressure. If so, no hydraulics also means no thrust reversers.

Also, if they were performing a high power run in a fairly confined area (like the AB A340 run), and the brakes release, there wont be a lot of time to react.

Must be a crummy day for those involved, hope they are doing OK.
 
PanAm788
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RE: Plane Off Taxiway @ ATL

Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:46 pm

This isn't a write off is it? From the pictures I'd say no but you can never really know for sure.
 
dl757md
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RE: Plane Off Taxiway @ ATL

Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:47 pm

Delta mechanics have to be attend a taxi training class, have familiarization training on the particular aircraft type and complete a check ride in order to be taxi qual on any particular type. In addition in ATL you have to have an AMA license from the airport authority.

DL757Md
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readytotaxi
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RE: Plane Off Taxiway @ ATL

Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:52 pm

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 53):
No. They may or may not even have to have a "license" to taxi the aircraft, depending on the airline

Wow, this is interesting, the airline can okay it and the FAA have no say?
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
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Dalmd88
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RE: Plane Off Taxiway @ ATL

Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:47 pm

Quoting readytotaxi (Reply 57):
Wow, this is interesting, the airline can okay it and the FAA have no say?

It is an approved part of the maintenance program at pretty much every airline in the US. Therefore approved by the FAA.
 
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BobMUC
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RE: Plane Off Taxiway @ ATL

Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:49 pm

Incident even made it into the German Video news at "Stern Online": http://www.stern.de/panorama/atlanta...ueber-rollbahn-hinaus-1799280.html
 
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litz
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RE: Plane Off Taxiway @ ATL

Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:03 pm

That's definitely what one would term an "unusual attitude" ... planes are not 4X4 jeeps.

That's a heckuva kee-runch on that engine, enough so, that I bet they do an in-depth structural examination of that wing.

And far as I know, there haven't been any pictures of the undercarriage yet.

If any of the gear collapsed, or there was belly damage as the nose "fell off the edge" ... who knows.

It's right there in plain sight at the world's busiest airport ... so whenever it gets removed, you can be sure someone will get pictures.
 
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readytotaxi
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RE: Plane Off Taxiway @ ATL

Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:50 pm

Quoting Dalmd88 (Reply 58):

Thank you, very interesting,  
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
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boeingkid
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RE: Plane Off Taxiway @ ATL

Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:58 pm

Why wasn't a Goldhoffer or a supetug used for this? I agree why were they doing that in the fog.
 
Dalmd88
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RE: Plane Off Taxiway @ ATL

Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:59 pm

The WSB site had some good shots of them lifting the plane with the two cranes.
http://www.wsbtv.com/gallery/news/lo...-plane-veers-taxiway/gd6x/#1355589
 
ikramerica
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RE: Plane Off Taxiway @ ATL

Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:12 pm

Quoting Dalmd88 (Reply 63):
The WSB site had some good shots of them lifting the plane with the two cranes.

Looks like it might be a WO if I'm seeing the damage to the structure on the right side correctly. Those last two pics show a massive tear in the fuselage over the wingbox. That wouldn't be a good thing. Hopefully I'm seeing it wrong.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
ULMFlyer
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RE: Plane Off Taxiway @ ATL

Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:26 pm

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 64):
Looks like it might be a WO if I'm seeing the damage to the structure on the right side correctly. Those last two pics show a massive tear in the fuselage over the wingbox. That wouldn't be a good thing. Hopefully I'm seeing it wrong.

Looks like an open emergency exit to me.
Let's go Pens!
 
catiii
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RE: Plane Off Taxiway @ ATL

Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:27 pm

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 64):
Those last two pics show a massive tear in the fuselage over the wingbox. That wouldn't be a good thing. Hopefully I'm seeing it wrong.

The emergency exit door opens outward and upward on the 73NG. That's what you're seeing. Agree it does look like a tear though.
 
ikramerica
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RE: Plane Off Taxiway @ ATL

Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:32 pm

I see it now. I guess it was the only safe way out for the crew on board.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
jreuschl
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RE: Plane Off Taxiway @ ATL

Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:05 pm

Do the black boxes record data at all times, even in a situation like this? Would they record if braking was attempted?
 
richierich
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RE: Plane Off Taxiway @ ATL

Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:12 pm

I see what ikramerica means but it is definitely a popped door - and the 'tear' doesn't appear on other photos. I haven't seen anything to make me think this bird won't be flying again in the near future, once the engine(s) are replaced and the wings and fuselage checked. I know I am overly-simplifying things but I dont see any catastrophic damage, so if there is damage to the structure we cannot see in in the photos. It will still cost quite a bit to repair though.
None shall pass!!!!
 
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litz
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RE: Plane Off Taxiway @ ATL

Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:26 pm

This could so easily have been popped MLG, kinked nose gear, crumpled nose ... torqued/wrinkled fuselage ... crunched belly skin ... and on and on.

The pictures would seem to show this was one lucky 737.

If someone smuggles pictures out of the TOC, then we'll all know more ... presumably that's where it's headed.
 
SEA
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RE: Plane Off Taxiway @ ATL

Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:44 pm

Quoting jreuschl (Reply 68):
Do the black boxes record data at all times, even in a situation like this? Would they record if braking was attempted?

Yes and yes.
 
ikramerica
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RE: Plane Off Taxiway @ ATL

Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:57 pm

Quoting richierich (Reply 69):
I see what ikramerica means but it is definitely a popped door - and the 'tear' doesn't appear on other photos.

It was an illusion from poor quality footage. Seems it's some bumps, bruises and a damaged engine.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
blueman87
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RE: Plane Off Taxiway @ ATL

Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:57 pm

is it going to be repaired or replaced
B6 T5 JFK DL T2/3 JFK
 
spyglass
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RE: Plane Off Taxiway @ ATL

Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:04 pm

I expect when the black boxes are reviewed, there will be at least one "oops!", and maybe a "golldang it!". At least the brake problem occurred in a non-critical circumstance.....if there had been pax onboard.....let's be thankful.
I remember when......a plane trip was a big deal.
 
B757Forever
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RE: Plane Off Taxiway @ ATL

Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:04 am

Both engines ingested mud. Left engine inlet cowl and fan cowls damaged. Unsure if the left engine was damaged from impact. Left NLG door torn off. Nose tires flattened. Both cockpit seat cushions soiled.   Considering the circumstances, the damage was very light.
The Rolls Royce Dart. Noise = Shaft Horsepower.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Plane Off Taxiway @ ATL

Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:11 am

Quoting PanAm788 (Reply 55):
This isn't a write off is it? From the pictures I'd say no but you can never really know for sure.

It's hard to tell from photos. The Aerorepublica ERJ-190 below didn't look that badly damaged after it overran at Santa Marta, Colombia (SMR) in July 2007, but it was written off.

Quoting spyglass (Reply 74):
I expect when the black boxes are reviewed, there will be at least one "oops!", and maybe a "golldang it!".

As there probably were on the following aircraft, both being taxied by mechanics at the time.

NW A319 at LGA January 2003, being positioned to the gate by mechanics. That accident remains the only A319 hull loss in almost 17 years since the A319's first flight and over 1,300 aircraft delivered.




And the SV 747-300, taxied by mechanics into a drainage ditch at KUL in 2001.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Rayyan ALSamadani
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Rayyan ALSamadani

 
suisjes
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RE: Plane Off Taxiway @ ATL

Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:13 am

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 53):
Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 53):
No. They may or may not even have to have a "license" to taxi the aircraft, depending on the airline.

-DiamondFlyer

Ah what airline does'nt?? If you operate any aircraft you will have to have a Run Taxi License given to you by the airline you are working with
 
akelley728
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RE: Plane Off Taxiway @ ATL

Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:20 am

Quoting Blueman87 (Reply 73):
is it going to be repaired or replaced

Way too early to know that, don't you think?

Quoting litz (Reply 70):
This could so easily have been popped MLG, kinked nose gear, crumpled nose ... torqued/wrinkled fuselage ... crunched belly skin ... and on and on.

The pictures would seem to show this was one lucky 737.

There was the UA/CO 738 that fell into a sinkhole in Greenville, SC. There was quite a bit of damage includuding MLG and wing damage. That one flew again, this one will too.
Wounded 737's---status (by n471wn May 24 2011 in Civil Aviation)

[Edited 2012-03-13 17:43:11]
 
Dalmd88
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RE: Plane Off Taxiway @ ATL

Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:29 am

My money is on it being repaired. In the last 20 years I've seen a lot worse damage fixed at DL. We'll only really know when the inspection is done on the plane, but from the pics it looks pretty minor on the airframe side.
 
suisjes
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RE: Plane Off Taxiway @ ATL

Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:34 am

Way too early to know that, don't you think?

Quoting akelley728 (Reply 78):

Totally it is going to take weeks to rip it apart and do an analysis! And a lot of the repairs are look to be pretty in depth. And it there is major structural damage.....they won't scrap it IT IS A BOEING!!  
 
ikramerica
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RE: Plane Off Taxiway @ ATL

Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:35 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 76):
The Aerorepublica ERJ-190 below didn't look that badly damaged after it overran at Santa Marta, Colombia (SMR) in July 2007, but it was written off.

True but the avionics are under salt water, as is some of the hull, and it likely slammed hard into the rocks. The DL bird didn't get wet.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
bennett123
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RE: Plane Off Taxiway @ ATL

Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:38 am

Sometimes, (like the B747-300) scrapping is pretty obvious.

I assume that it was broken up in 2001, (once any investigation was concluded).

This B737, will IMO be repairable. It has the advantages of being new, with no obvious structural problems. Being close to DL maintenance can not hurt either.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Plane Off Taxiway @ ATL

Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:42 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 76):
As there probably were on the following aircraft, both being taxied by mechanics at the time.

Didn't XJ also have a m/x taxi incident with an Avro at MEM a few years back? IIRC, that aircraft also impacted the jet bridge.

My recollection is that the DC-9 versus Airbus taxi incident at MSP involved pilots taxiing.

Perhaps the involved mechanics were ex-NW   
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
DiamondFlyer
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RE: Plane Off Taxiway @ ATL

Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:48 am

Quoting suisjes (Reply 77):
Ah what airline does'nt?? If you operate any aircraft you will have to have a Run Taxi License given to you by the airline you are working with

I know numerous mechanics who taxi airplanes at airports with no license or anything. May not work for an airline, but they do it.

-DiamondFlyer
From my cold, dead hands
 
SXDFC
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RE: Plane Off Taxiway @ ATL

Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:13 am

Pardon my ignorance but one of the things Id like to know is if part of this "ripping apart" process also includes stripping the paint to check for damage as well? I ask because I am pretty sure I heard someone say once its easier to check for damage with the paint removed.. I could be wrong though.
 
GentFromAlaska
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RE: Plane Off Taxiway @ ATL

Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:24 am

NBC aired pictures of airframe tonight on the national news. The engine on the damaged side didn't look pretty. I was wondering if it was even salvageable I believe I read the airframe was a NG (next generation) thus it had to be relatively new.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: Plane Off Taxiway @ ATL

Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:37 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 83):
Didn't XJ also have a m/x taxi incident with an Avro at MEM a few years back? IIRC, that aircraft also impacted the jet bridge.

That was Mesaba mechanics taxiing an ARJ that did not have proper hydraulic power that impacted a jet bridge in MEM.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 83):
My recollection is that the DC-9 versus Airbus taxi incident at MSP involved pilots taxiing.

The DC-9-50 had in-flight hydralic problems, and I think declared an emergency landing. After landing they were taxiing into the gate and lost the hydraulics including nose steering and braking and ran into the parked A319 in MSP.
 
F9Animal
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RE: Plane Off Taxiway @ ATL

Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:15 am

Wow! Thank goodness the mechs are OKAY! They no doubt will have to scrap their underwear!
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
jreuschl
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RE: Plane Off Taxiway @ ATL

Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:20 am

 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Plane Off Taxiway @ ATL

Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:34 am

Quoting boeingkid (Reply 62):
Why wasn't a Goldhoffer or a supetug used for this? I agree why were they doing that in the fog.

Kind of hard to do an engine run-up with a supertug on the nose...

Quoting Dalmd88 (Reply 79):
My money is on it being repaired. In the last 20 years I've seen a lot worse damage fixed at DL. We'll only really know when the inspection is done on the plane, but from the pics it looks pretty minor on the airframe side.

I guess it will all come down to how much it will cost to fix vs what the insurance company will pay for the frame. But i'm with you that it will be back in the air by the fall.

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 86):
NBC aired pictures of airframe tonight on the national news. The engine on the damaged side didn't look pretty. I was wondering if it was even salvageable I believe I read the airframe was a NG (next generation) thus it had to be relatively new.

As stated in several posts above, it was a 737-700. DL only has 10 of them, all delivered between mid 2008 and late 2009.
What gets measured gets done.
 
fshplns
Posts: 73
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RE: Plane Off Taxiway @ ATL

Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:41 am

Were they trying for a new shortcut back to the pad, instead of going down Taxiway E to Twy E10 (E10 being the only current taxiway into and out of those specific Delta mx hangars?   
 
captainstefan
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RE: Plane Off Taxiway @ ATL

Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:05 am

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 51):
is there any difference between and Apron and a taxiway or are they one in the same.

To the FAA, and apron is a non-movement area, which means it is not controlled by the FAA's ground controller. In Atlanta, however, the ramps are controlled by contracted personnel who organize the flow of traffic into and out of the gates. Though, in this instance, the plane was using a taxiway and a run-up pad, both of which are under FAA control.

Quoting boeingkid (Reply 62):
Why wasn't a Goldhoffer or a supetug used for this?

When you want to test the engine systems, you want to use them to see if they're working properly - using a Goldhofer would be like giving crutches to someone who is healing from a broken leg to see if they can properly walk.

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 86):
I believe I read the airframe was a NG (next generation) thus it had to be relatively new.

This one was delivered in '09
Long Live the Tulip!
 
stratosphere
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RE: Plane Off Taxiway @ ATL

Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:34 am

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 87):
My recollection is that the DC-9 versus Airbus taxi incident at MSP involved pilots taxiing.

The DC-9-50 had in-flight hydralic problems, and I think declared an emergency landing. After landing they were taxiing into the gate and lost the hydraulics including nose steering and braking and ran into the parked A319 in MSP.

That was a pilot screw up he had hydraulic failure but shut down the engine that had the remaining hydraulics. Thats why it smashed into the A320.
 
stratosphere
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RE: Plane Off Taxiway @ ATL

Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:43 am

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 84):
I know numerous mechanics who taxi airplanes at airports with no license or anything. May not work for an airline, but they do it.

-DiamondFlyer

You don't need a license per se. But all airlines qualifiy certain mechanics to run/taxi. Dont know what happens in the vendor arena.
 
yeelep
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RE: Plane Off Taxiway @ ATL

Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:53 am

Quoting suisjes (Reply 77):
If you operate any aircraft you will have to have a Run Taxi License given to you by the airline you are working with
My airline does not issue a license, it is just a qualification kept in my training records that allows me to run/taxi our aircraft.
 
AR385
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RE: Plane Off Taxiway @ ATL

Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:03 am

I believe thrust reversers are useless at low speeds. They would not have made much of a difference if the airplane was going at taxi speed. Don´t airlines cancel thrust reversers as SOP below 80 knots?
 
stratosphere
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RE: Plane Off Taxiway @ ATL

Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:55 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 96):
I believe thrust reversers are useless at low speeds. They would not have made much of a difference if the airplane was going at taxi speed. Don´t airlines cancel thrust reversers as SOP below 80 knots?

They are not useless but are not used due to possible FOD ingestion thats why the 80/70 knot restriction. However, there has been more than one accident trying to use reversers when hydraulics were in question and actually increased forward speed trying to stop. After all some airlines NW for sure did power backs from the gate with DC-9's and 727's. Using reverse thrust. So reverse thrust works even below 80 kts

[Edited 2012-03-13 23:03:05]

[Edited 2012-03-13 23:04:06]

[Edited 2012-03-13 23:04:57]
 
Geezer
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RE: Plane Off Taxiway @ ATL

Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:04 am

Here's the thing about "the media", print, TV etc. that I have never been able to figure out; with them, it's all about "beating the other guy"; that's understandable, as far as it goes, but it doesn't "go" very far; I don't give a rat's you know what who got it out "first", but I do want a story that sounds like it was written by someone who is already out of grade school; I've been about truck wrecks, car wrecks, plane wrecks, and here lately, a couple of pretty costly ship wrecks; every one of which had all the "facts" mangled, were obviously written by a person of very limited (read:none) knowledge of the transportation mode they are trying to write about; granted, I realize, very few "reporters" can be expected to know all of this. But do they every attempt to find "someone" with said knowledge and expertise ? Not that I can tell !

Hey, if I was a newbie reporter in Atlanta, and the boss told me to beat it out to Hartsville Airport and "cover" a plane mishap..............the very FIRST thing I'd do, would be to get on my laptop and Google up Airliners.net; 15 minutes after which, I'd be in a position to do a credible story, which most people would believe; at the very least, they wouldn't be reading such obvious mis-statements as "Boeing 737 laying on it's side after going off runway, taxiway, highway, what ever, as was so obviously caught ( and commented quite correctly by a good old fellow A.netter !

Do I think all of this is going to "change" any time soon ? Do I think anyone is apt to win the same lottery 3 times in a row? I suppose it's theoretically "possible", but highly unlikely.

Charley
Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
 
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NWAROOSTER
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RE: Plane Off Taxiway @ ATL

Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:13 pm

Have they retrieved the aircraft from it's resting point?   
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