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readytotaxi
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British Pm Flying BA To USA?

Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:08 pm

Virgin Atlantic recently bid and won to be the government supplier for air travel, wonder why the PM just flew into the USA on a BA777.  
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plateman
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RE: British Pm Flying BA To USA?

Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:11 pm

Unofficial state visit so requires extra staff?
"Explore. Dream. Discover." -Mark Twain
 
plateman
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RE: British Pm Flying BA To USA?

Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:11 pm

Also, did he land at Dulles or Andrews AFB?
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MCO2BRS
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RE: British Pm Flying BA To USA?

Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:16 pm

I thought this was an official state visit? I don't know why he is on BA and not VS (I must have missed them winning the bid). Apparently Mr. Cameron is the first non-US head of state to travel on Air Froce One as well.

BBC reports that Mr. Cameron arrived at Andrews AFB

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17359948

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plateman
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RE: British Pm Flying BA To USA?

Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:19 pm

It's not an official state visit as the Queen is the actual head of state ... so they cannot call it that. Instead it is an official visit with a state dinner .. the Washington Post had an interesting writeup of this last week
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washingtonian
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RE: British Pm Flying BA To USA?

Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:20 pm

Quoting MCO2BRS (Reply 3):
Apparently Mr. Cameron is the first non-US head of state to travel on Air Froce One as well.

Not true. PM of Japan did so a few years ago.
 
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redzeppelin
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RE: British Pm Flying BA To USA?

Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:27 pm

Quoting MCO2BRS (Reply 3):
Apparently Mr. Cameron is the first non-US head of state to travel on Air Froce One as well.

As I read it, he is the first to travel on Air Force One together with President Obama.
 
andz
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RE: British Pm Flying BA To USA?

Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:29 pm

They showed the welcoming party on the apron on Sky News and the Union flag was upside down... oops....
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
lhr380
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RE: British Pm Flying BA To USA?

Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:29 pm

He flew direct to Andrews on BA???? NICE
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speedbird9
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RE: British Pm Flying BA To USA?

Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:30 pm

Mr. Cameron is not the Head of State the Queen is, the Prime Minister is Head of Government, and I think there is no long term contract only who can fly them there cheaply and on a schedule that suits the PM and besides David Cameron has taken scheduled flights before.
 
plateman
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RE: British Pm Flying BA To USA?

Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:41 pm

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 5):
Apparently Mr. Cameron is the first non-US head of state to travel on Air Froce One as well.

Hes first to fly with the current POTUS
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RWA380
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RE: British Pm Flying BA To USA?

Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:52 pm

When the Queen came over last time, she was flying BA on a 777 into Andrews AFB. I think that flying and arriving on a plane that says British on it, just seems more appropriate than a plane that says Virgin. Keeping up appearances.
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sam1987
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RE: British Pm Flying BA To USA?

Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:05 pm

If David Cameron is flying on BA once again, perhaps that says something about following story:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...feb/18/cameron-guru-gove-virgin-ba

"Don't fly British Airways, they are the fat cats. Fly Branson, he is the upstart. We are on the side of the upstarts"

Clearly the government aren't on the side of the upstarts after all...
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fruitbat
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RE: British Pm Flying BA To USA?

Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:31 pm

Quoting sam1987 (Reply 15):
If David Cameron is flying on BA once again, perhaps that says something about following story:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...feb/18/cameron-guru-gove-virgin-ba

"Don't fly British Airways, they are the fat cats. Fly Branson, he is the upstart. We are on the side of the upstarts"

Clearly the government aren't on the side of the upstarts after all..

Interesting article, thanks for posting. A neat metaphor for our current government really; their instinct in times of crisis is to protect the "establishment". Not that I've got anything against BA, indeed I'm quite looking forward to my flight with them this weekend!
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GDB
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RE: British Pm Flying BA To USA?

Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:49 pm

Quoting sam1987 (Reply 15):
"Don't fly British Airways, they are the fat cats. Fly Branson, he is the upstart. We are on the side of the upstarts"

Well as I mentioned before, that was a non story about the 'blue sky thinking' from the man who gave us 'The Big Society'.
And has now buggered off, to the relief of ministers and civil servants.
Wasn't government policy, not even close to being so.
'Special Advisers'/Guru's or whatever, come up with ideas and thoughts all of the time, it's maybe a sad reflection on people's understanding of how government actually works, that this is mistaken for policy. Though the way the press reports this sort of thing is a big factor in this misunderstanding.
 
1stfl94
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RE: British Pm Flying BA To USA?

Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:15 pm

Of course leaving politics aside would it depend on more on which carrier has the capacity to operate the flight. VS have (or had) a contract for UK govt flights but they may not be exclusive and this visit may have been organized relatively recently.

Personally I'm glad to see them using a commercially operated jet, whichever airline you support better that it's a company supporting UK jobs rather than an expensive tax payer funded exec jet.
 
Gingersnap
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RE: British Pm Flying BA To USA?

Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:42 am

Quoting 1stfl94 (Reply 18):
Personally I'm glad to see them using a commercially operated jet, whichever airline you support better that it's a company supporting UK jobs rather than an expensive tax payer funded exec jet.

Agreed. Although it'd be nice to see one of the RAFs A330MRTTs being put to use as a VIP transport every now and again.
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mpsrent
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RE: British Pm Flying BA To USA?

Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:11 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 12):
When the Queen came over last time, she was flying BA on a 777 into Andrews AFB. I think that flying and arriving on a plane that says British on it, just seems more appropriate than a plane that says Virgin. Keeping up appearances.


Actually when the Queen visited New York in July 2010 to address the UN, she arrived in a Canadian Forces CC-150 (Airbus 310) as Queen of Canada.

[Edited 2012-03-13 18:12:34]
 
vv701
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RE: British Pm Flying BA To USA?

Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:13 am

VS obtained the contract to fly then Prime Minister Gordon Brown to the USA in 2009 to the G20 Summit. This was not the first time that BA had not gained a contract to carry the Prime Minister. On one earlier occasion the Swiss airline, Privatair, obtained a contract. It was to carry then Prime Minister Tony Blair to and from South Africa. Unfortunately for both Privatair and the Blairs and their entourage, the DC-8 used went tech at JNB. So they all flew back to London on a scheduled BA 744 flight:

Tony Blair Plane Failure At JNB, Blair Stuck In SA (by Ibhayi Feb 13 2006 in Civil Aviation)?threadid=2604330&searchid=2607861&s=blair dc-8 jnb#ID2607861

When VS won that G20 contract they issued a carefully worded press release that, without very careful reading, might be seen to suggest that the contract was not for a single-flight but was an on-going contract. I believe this was an incorrect interpretation as I think each British government flight is put out to a separate individual contract.

There was therefore much surprise expressed when PM Cameron flew to India in 2010 in a chartered BA 744 having previously also flown to the USA in a VS aircraft:

British Pm Chartering BA Rather Than VS? (by anshuk Jul 28 2010 in Civil Aviation)?threadid=4880020&searchid=4880112&s=brown VS USA#ID4880112

On this latest flight BA again obtained the contract. The flight was operated by 772 G-VIIW, an aircraft fitted with BA's new 'F' Class cabin. It operated LHR-ADW as BA9100C on 13 March.

It is unlikely that the Queen and Prince Philip will fly long haul on anything other than a BA 772. This is because BA have two of these aircraft configured so that the 'F' Class cabin can be relatively quickly reconfigured with their Royal Suite. This comprises two single-beds, a wooden table, four chairs and a changing area. (Previous to fitting out the two 772s for this conversion BA operated a 763 in a similar configuration.)

On one occasion the Blairs travelled in one of these aircraft (G-YMMO) fitted with the Royal Suite. It carried them to the closing ceremony of the Commonwealth Games in Melbourne, Australia in 2006. It had previously carried Queen Elizabeth and Prince Philip to Australia for the games' opening ceremony.
 
Viscount724
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RE: British Pm Flying BA To USA?

Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:09 am

Quoting VV701 (Reply 22):
On one earlier occasion the Swiss airline, Privatair, obtained a contract. It was to carry then Prime Minister Tony Blair to and from South Africa. Unfortunately for both Privatair and the Blairs and their entourage, the DC-8 used went tech at JNB. So they all flew back to London on a scheduled BA 744 flight:

It wasn't Privatair. They've never operated any DC-8s as far as I know. I think the aircraft involved was the DC-8-72 below, then operated by ZRH-based Jet Aviation (since 2008 a subsidiary of U.S.-based General Dynamics). It was then registered HB-IGH. It was sold some time ago and is now registered in Bermuda (VP-BHS), owned by a company called Brisair. That aircraft was originally delivered to UA as a DC-8-62 in 1969.


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cic777
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RE: British Pm Flying BA To USA?

Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:32 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 12):
When the Queen came over last time, she was flying BA on a 777 into Andrews AFB. I think that flying and arriving on a plane that says British on it, just seems more appropriate than a plane that says Virgin. Keeping up appearances.

I wonder if Hyacinth Bucket gave her any tips on hats...lol Sorry, couldn't resist. Anyway back on topic...
 
Ychocky
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RE: British Pm Flying BA To USA?

Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:49 am

It operated to KADW as BAW9100. Does anyone know the callsign? Does the PM get anything special?

[Edited 2012-03-13 21:50:46]
 
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nighthawk
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RE: British Pm Flying BA To USA?

Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:38 am

Quoting Ychocky (Reply 25):
It operated to KADW as BAW9100. Does anyone know the callsign? Does the PM get anything special?

Kittyhawk is the callsign used by the RAF for VIP transport, with "Hawk" being the VIP, and the aircraft operating as "Kitty" when he is not on-board.

As this was a BA operated flight, I am not sure if it would use the Kitty/Kittyhawk callsign.
 
bastew
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RE: British Pm Flying BA To USA?

Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:42 pm

BA was unusually singing its own praises on the staff intranet today:

Prime minister David Cameron travelled to Washington to meet President Barack Obama yesterday in a chartered British Airways Boeing 777.

Asked why BA was chosen for the flight, a Downing Street aide said: “We’re arriving at Andrews Air Force base. Think of the words the world will see. We want this to be about Britain.”
 
bthebest
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RE: British Pm Flying BA To USA?

Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:54 pm

Using BA always looks better, especially in the situations like they were yesterday. However, I can understand that the govt is looking for the best value. Plus it may be the case of an airline, say VS in this case, not having an aircraft available due to scheduled maintainence etc.

Quoting Gingersnap (Reply 16):
Although it'd be nice to see one of the RAFs A330MRTTs being put to use as a VIP transport every now and again.

I agree. I think it would be worthwhile if they invested in another A330, say an ex-airline one, and configured it for changeable VIP/Utility transport.
 
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nighthawk
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RE: British Pm Flying BA To USA?

Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:59 pm

Quoting bthebest (Reply 24):
I agree. I think it would be worthwhile if they invested in another A330, say an ex-airline one, and configured it for changeable VIP/Utility transport.

The A330MRT fleet will be changeable - they will operate as troop carriers and will also be leased out to airlines when not needed, so they could easily be used as a VIP transport too.
 
B777LRF
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RE: British Pm Flying BA To USA?

Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:26 pm

Actually what the UK need is a fleet of VIP aircraft, something fitting for a G8 and UN security council member. I'm thinking an A340-500 would do as the airborne royal carriage, a couple of A319/320 ACJs for senior government ministers and a handful of GLEX 5000s for the hoi-polloi.
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bthebest
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RE: British Pm Flying BA To USA?

Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:55 pm

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 26):
Actually what the UK need is a fleet of VIP aircraft, something fitting for a G8 and UN security council member. I'm thinking an A340-500 would do as the airborne royal carriage, a couple of A319/320 ACJs for senior government ministers and a handful of GLEX 5000s for the hoi-polloi.

I would love to see that too - but just ain't gonna happen.
 
GDB
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RE: British Pm Flying BA To USA?

Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:13 pm

Quoting bastew (Reply 23):
Asked why BA was chosen for the flight, a Downing Street aide said: “We’re arriving at Andrews Air Force base. Think of the words the world will see. We want this to be about Britain.”

A nice retort to a certain beardy CEO with his wittering on that he did about this subject recently. Not from BA either, but Downing Street. Steve Hilton HAS left that building.
 
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RWA380
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RE: British Pm Flying BA To USA?

Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:33 pm

Quoting cic777 (Reply 20):
I wonder if Hyacinth Bucket gave her any tips on hats...lol Sorry, couldn't resist. Anyway back on topic...

It's Bouquet, Thanks for getting my reference. Glad to see you in a few threads.
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71Zulu
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RE: British Pm Flying BA To USA?

Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:50 pm

 
sandyb123
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RE: British Pm Flying BA To USA?

Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:55 pm

Quoting andz (Reply 7):
They showed the welcoming party on the apron on Sky News and the Union flag was upside down... oops....

Sorry to be picky, but how can you tell it's upside down?

Sandyb123
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WAC
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RE: British Pm Flying BA To USA?

Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:31 pm

I think by government contracts mean normal long-haul travel for civil servants and not VIP-charters. VIP charters tend to be specially arranged and vary by route, fleet availability and expense.

I think the UK government and HRM VIP charters should be like the pope's a special configured short haul aircraft- a321 and B777 operated by BA.

Air Force One UK would never work as it would be deemed as corrupt by the public, and seeing how the expenses scandal is going, nations with a special air force of the government and head state, don't really care about expenses of their politicians, it is just as part of the political industry and an added expense of democracy.
 
boysteve
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RE: British Pm Flying BA To USA?

Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:02 am

Quoting sandyb123 (Reply 31):
Sorry to be picky, but how can you tell it's upside down?

Tutt tutt tutt.
If you look at the Union Flag (it's only called the Union Jack when on a boat btw) you need to focus on the diagnol stripes. The diagnol red stripe is off set in the wider diagnol white stripe, it is not central. On these diagnols the 'amount' of white stripe visible above the red stripe should be larger on the side of the flag closest to the flag pole! It's a bit technical but something that relevant foreign dignatories should be aware of!

[Edited 2012-03-14 17:03:17]

see this;
http://www.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/geography/unionjack7.html


[Edited 2012-03-14 17:04:48]
 
bavair
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RE: British Pm Flying BA To USA?

Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:39 am

Quoting WAC (Reply 32):
Air Force One UK would never work as it would be deemed as corrupt by the public, and seeing how the expenses scandal is going, nations with a special air force of the government and head state, don't really care about expenses of their politicians, it is just as part of the political industry and an added expense of democracy.

I have to disagree. In Germany everyone is very skeptical of the expenses of the government and yet they purchased 2 A343 (used), several ACJ and smaller jets for VIP transport and are building a government 'terminal' at BER. I think the reason why this is accepted by the public is because of how the image that it yields of the country which offsets the cost.
 
cayman
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RE: British Pm Flying BA To USA?

Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:19 am

I believe PM of Canada almost alwats flies Air Canada or Westjet regular commercial flights (and wesjet does not even have J class seating). Though these are shorter flight legs.

Perhaps on longer flights the Canadian PM reserves a handful of j class seats for aides etc.

There are a very few VIP a/c in cdn fleet but I think not enough to be used by PM that is why you so often se him on regular AC flights.

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