EK Announces New Service To IAD

washingtonian · Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:31 pm

Quoting MAV88 (Reply 38):
Which airline and/or routes do you think will ultimately fail on IAD-Middle East? It seems like a ton of lift to have daily IAD-DXB on EK, daily IAD-DOH on QR, daily IAD-AUH on EY, plus IAD-DXB, IAD-DOH, IAD-BAH and IAD-KWI on UA.

UA operates IAD-DXB-DOH, and IAD-KWI-BAH. I think there is room for everybody.

Quoting something (Reply 40):
Every diplomat or embassy or honorary consulate employee with all of their employees

It might seem like a lot, but it's a small fraction of the overall number of travelers. People love to talk about how international flights from DC are profitable because of government traffic but this is a bit like saying flights to NYC are profitable because of the financial industry there. Flights are profitable for a huge variety of reasons, not one reason. If you believed the A.net hype, you would think that every flight to DCA/IAD is packed with government employees flying on business. It is not the case. The fact of the matter is that the DC region is a very wealthy, highly-educated, fast growing area with an assortment of industries. This is why Emirates flight will be profitable.

swedenflyer · Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:42 pm

I'm looking forward to this route! However, my parents probably can't afford the cheapest economy class seat.

LAXdude1023 · Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:50 pm

Quoting gabrielz (Reply 7):
This is going to be EK's Waterloo

You think this one route is going to make EK go under? You do realize Waterloo wasnt a set back for Napolean, Waterloo was the end of the road for Napolean.

Quoting gabrielz (Reply 7):
DC isn't a big market

Very wrong again. DC-Middle East is the 2nd largest US-Middle East market after NYC.

Quoting gabrielz (Reply 7):
I'd say EK's product advantage has shrunk substantially against an invigorated (and cash-rich) UA.

EK is not worried about UA. Not a chance.

[Edited 2012-03-15 14:55:33]

kq747 · Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:35 pm

I wholly agree with LAXdude1023. I cant think of a day when I would pick UA over EK and I think there are a lot of people out there who would given the choice do the same. The 10 abreast seating while not the best is made up for in pitch which matters more to me.(Please dont start EK bashing but) Plus the food, IFE, friendly service from a multinational crew, the like of which i will ever experience on any american carrier let alone UA. There are days when I forget that UA even flies to the middle east because my mind straight away goes to QR, EK, EY. We all knew it was just a matter of time before EK became really aggressive with their US route expansion and I wouldnt be surprised if they announced ORD or MIA before the year is out.

airbazar · Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:37 pm

Quoting gabrielz (Reply 7):
DC isn't a big market, and without government business (which requires a US codeshare) it's a very very small market. UA's hub at IAD is really hard to crack because of the government business, and EK doesn't have what it takes.

That's pointless to EK. Do you think they got to where they are today by selling discounted tickets to government officials?

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 15):
Why would the WAS market go out if its way to get to Africa when there are already plenty of more competitive options?

Lower fares and better service? Why do thousands of people travel from Europe to East Asia or Africa via DXB? It's not exactly on the way.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 15):
It has an ET nonstop that isn't even full

It's not non-stop, it has a stop in FCO, and it's more expensive than the competition. See my response above.
If you can't offer a better option and you charge more money, you're not going to get a lot of people to fly with you.

yeogeo · Thu Mar 15, 2012 11:49 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 15):
It has an ET nonstop that isn't even full

Quoting airbazar (Reply 54):
It's not non-stop, it has a stop in FCO

You're both half-right:

6251nm IADº-ADDº ‡ Ethiopian ˇ 77Lx4[5]
‡ 6251nm ET operates nonstop eastbound only. Westbound: (ET 500) ADD-FCO-IAD

World's Longest Flights 15 March Update (by yeogeo Feb 26 2012 in Aviation Polls)

yeo

delta2ual · Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:31 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 52):
Very wrong again. DC-Middle East is the 2nd largest US-Middle East market after NYC.

While I'm not disputing this fact, it seems my hometown of Detroit would have had EK service by now. According to the Arab-American Institute, Michigan is just behind California with the most Arabs; plus they are mostly well-traveled, I know many of them who travel home yearly. (I have three cousins that married men from Abu Dhabi & Lebanon). I wonder if it's because so many are Iraqi (where it's difficult to get to) or Palestinian and Lebanese (which would be back-tracking)?

Top ten states by Arab American Population:
1. California - 272,485

2. Michigan - 191,607

3. New York - 149,627

4. Florida - 100,627

5. Texas - 91,568

6. New Jersey - 85,956

7. Illinois - 85,465

8. Ohio - 65,813

9. Massachusetts - 65,150

10. Pennsylvania - 60,870

http://www.aaiusa.org/pages/demographics/

[Edited 2012-03-15 17:34:13]

wedgetail737 · Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:40 am

Quoting ASA (Reply 30):
Just throwing out a curve ball ... is it possible that it is actually SEA that will be axed? If the poor bookings continue, maybe they'll just stop that station and divert the metal to the IAD service?

EK's timing into SEA is not too terribly impeccable...this time of year is really not the best time of year for Seattle tourism. But EK is not going to drop SEA after just a few weeks. I think they'll wait until after the 1st of next year to see how the loads are.

I think SEA will turn out to be a good station, but with the 77L. I think the 77W is too big right now, even though it's only a few more seats larger.

MaverickM11 · Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:43 am

Quoting airbazar (Reply 54):
Do you think they got to where they are today by selling discounted tickets to government officials?

Discounted tickets to Indians

Quoting airbazar (Reply 54):

Lower fares and better service? Why do thousands of people travel from Europe to East Asia or Africa via DXB? It's not exactly on the way.

It's less circuitous from Europe to East Africa.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 54):
It's not non-stop, it has a stop in FCO, and it's more expensive than the competition.

It's nonstop in one direction, tech stop in the other. It's more expensive because ET can take a premium for the nonstop. That said they probably will try to no't give EK an inch in the flow markets, nor let go of the local too much.

point2point · Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:51 am

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 43):
I don't know why some insist DEN is on any kind of a short list for EK. The simple answer to that one is, "NO."

I didn't know anyone even mentioned DEN on this thread.

But now that it's brought up, it is, after all, the 10th busiest airport in the world.

l101fan · Fri Mar 16, 2012 3:05 am

I flew QR from IAD-DOH-KTM and will return next week. The flight from IAD was almost completely full. It was a very good flight. With QR expanding their route structure and the quality of their service I would fly them again with no hesitation.

ojas · Fri Mar 16, 2012 3:22 am

Quoting behramjee (Reply 4):
I hope people working in Etihad Airways realize that this announcement by Emirates is purposely done due to a major goof up by Etihad as you do not announce a new long haul route such as AUH-IAD one year in advance thus giving your direct competition such as EK/TK/QR to plan what actions are required to counter the EY entry into the market in terms of frequency/capacity increase.

That's not true.

It seems someone at the top management in Etihad Airways got an inkling EK is starting IAD and just to "outsmart" EK EY made a premature announcement of IAD. The result being Etihad made a fool of themselves. Besides, it's not that just because EY announced IAD; EK woke up and did the same before. Planning of a new destination is an extensive process and it takes months before finalising.

Pbb152 · Fri Mar 16, 2012 3:43 am

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 57):
think SEA will turn out to be a good station, but with the 77L. I think the 77W is too big right now, even though it's only a few more seats larger.

They are already using the 77L to SEA. They only used the 77W for the first 3 days of service. The route reverted to a 77L after that.

cmf · Fri Mar 16, 2012 3:47 am

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 36):
DXB is only 72mi away from AUH

Distance in UAE is not measured in miles, nor km. It is measured in timetime. The first time is time of day. It will give you the second time, the time it takes at that time of the day.

catiii · Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:26 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 28):
Quoting globalflyer (Reply 26):
Interesting as EK have been to ATL to recruit for pilots. Could be just a road trip across the USA? ATL would break DL's monopoly and I hear it is one of their most profitable routes.

I doubt both carries could co-exist on that route.

They definitely could. DL isn't carrying much O/D traffic from ATL, however they're maximizing the hub to connect traffic from all over the network through ATL to DXB. For EK, ATL would be a final destination, maximizing traffic through the DXB hub to connect traffic from all over their network to ATL. Different markets entirely.

RyanairGuru · Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:52 am

Quoting ojas (Reply 61):
It seems someone at the top management in Etihad Airways got an inkling EK is starting IAD and just to "outsmart" EK EY made a premature announcement of IAD

I think that is very true. Even Emirates couldn't wake up one day and decide to fly a route. This has probably been in the works for a while and EY decided to steal some thunder.

MAH4546 · Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:53 am

Quoting delta2ual (Reply 56):
While I'm not disputing this fact, it seems my hometown of Detroit would have had EK service by now. According to the Arab-American Institute, Michigan is just behind California with the most Arabs; plus they are mostly well-traveled, I know many of them who travel home yearly. (I have three cousins that married men from Abu Dhabi & Lebanon). I wonder if it's because so many are Iraqi (where it's difficult to get to) or Palestinian and Lebanese (which would be back-tracking)?

Two primary rasons I believe EK is missing from Detroit:

1) it involves backtracking to get to where they want to go, which is largely Amman and Beiruit.
2) The community actually does not have a high propensity to travel, especially not compared to California, where the Arab community is very wealthy and has a high propensity to travel. And for those who do travel, the yield is quite weak.

I think that DTW will see Turkish before Emirates. IST is a better hub to serve the needs of DTW-Middle East travel patterns.

klwright69 · Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:06 am

Quoting point2point (Reply 59):
Quoting klwright69 (Reply 43):
I don't know why some insist DEN is on any kind of a short list for EK. The simple answer to that one is, "NO."

I didn't know anyone even mentioned DEN on this thread.

But now that it's brought up, it is, after all, the 10th busiest airport in the world.

You're right, it was brought up on the other thread about a possibly new EK city. My bad. Yes, but it's a very busy airport that's not even ready for a Tokyo route either.

Anyway, the timing of the IAD flight announcement will not make much difference in the scheme of things. I think QR, EY, and EK will coexist just like they do in NYC.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 66):

Two primary rasons I believe EK is missing from Detroit:

1) it involves backtracking to get to where they want to go, which is largely Amman and Beiruit.

I agree. Plus, there needs to be more than just a local ethnic community to make a route a long-term success. And Detroit is so economically depressed, it's almost its own third world country.

[Edited 2012-03-16 00:20:08]

boeing773W · Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:13 am

Quoting gabrielz (Reply 7):
This is going to be EK's Waterloo. I predict the route never makes money and is abandoned within 24 months.

Surely there would be more traffic for IAD than SEA, so I would say if one of these destinations was EK's Waterloo, it is much more likely for it to be SEA than IAD. If QR can do well at IAD (and EY launching routes too), EK, given its marketing, route network and overall strategy, will surely make it work (perhaps even more so than QR and EY).

A significant part of QR's traffic out of IAD is UAE bound in any event rather than DOH bound. EK will automatically capture that market with a direct flight to DXB.

behramjee · Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:45 am

Quoting ojas (Reply 61):
That's not true.

It seems someone at the top management in Etihad Airways got an inkling EK is starting IAD and just to "outsmart" EK EY made a premature announcement of IAD. The result being Etihad made a fool of themselves. Besides, it's not that just because EY announced IAD; EK woke up and did the same before. Planning of a new destination is an extensive process and it takes months before finalising.

I was refering to the fact that EKs IAD launch date is 6 months before EY which is mainly done to get ahead in the IAD local market before EY even launches its inaugural service.

RyanairGuru · Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:23 am

Quoting behramjee (Reply 69):
I was refering to the fact that EKs IAD launch date is 6 months before EY which is mainly done to get ahead in the IAD local market before EY even launches its inaugural service.

But what behramjee is suggesting (and what seems to be a more likely scenario) is that EK were planning to announce IAD, and then EY caught wind of it and thought that they would spoil the party.

After all, it isn't normal to give such a long lead time - especially when EK (possibly more than any other airline) has the resources and operational flexibility to react quickly. EY must have know this. However, even EK probably couldn't have managed to go from a blank piece of paper to launching the route in less than 6 months time in a matter of weeks, that's why I think that this has been in the works for longer.

That EK and EY would have ultimately both flown to IAD eventually is inevitable, but it seems somewhat more realistic that EY are the ones acting retaliatory in this situation, not EK.

boeing773W · Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:03 am

Whether EK decided to spoil EY's party, or the other way around wouldn't make a difference anyway. There are plenty of cities that both EK and EY (and in fact QR) serve and compete on. IAD will just join that list. The carriers would also face the same challenges as regards load factors as the O&D traffic between IAD and DXB, DOH & AUH respectively would be quite low I imagine. All 3 carriers are therefore targeting the connecting traffic to the Middle East, Asia and Africa and would simply need to compete on price & product. They do it with destinations such as LHR, CDG, FRA, HKG, JNB, JFK etc, so IAD won't be any different.

P.S. I would imagine that EK could serve the Moscow - Washington traffic too. People use them for Moscow - Tokyo and Hong Kong flights a lot for example so using EK for IAD should make sense too. I don't know what the demand would be like but it's an option.

UAL777UK · Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:18 am

There is talk on here that SEA is to quite where EK wants it at the moment. Can i ask, has EK actually ever pulled out of a market? I dont mean downguaged the aircraft, I mean actually pulled out. I cannot think of anywhere it has but stand to be corrected.

leftyboarder · Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:55 am

Quoting boeing773W (Reply 71):
P.S. I would imagine that EK could serve the Moscow - Washington traffic too. People use them for Moscow - Tokyo and Hong Kong flights a lot for example so using EK for IAD should make sense too. I don't know what the demand would be like but it's an option.

That doubles the distance from 4900nm direct to 9300nm via Dubai. What next? London via Dubai?

RyanairGuru · Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:01 am

Quoting ual777uk (Reply 72):
has EK actually ever pulled out of a market?

I guess HAJ-JFK doesn't count since they continued to serve both cities.

The only others which come to mind are the likes of Tripoli, but for very obvious reasons.

FAGC · Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:51 pm

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 74):
Quoting ual777uk (Reply 72):has ek actually ever pulled out of a market?
I guess HAJ-JFK doesn't count since they continued to serve both cities.

The only others which come to mind are the likes of Tripoli, but for very obvious reasons.

I know they withdrew from Baku and Comoros many years ago

Gabrielz · Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:51 pm

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 13):

Washingtonian et al:

The issue isn't that DC is purely a government market at all - to your point it is a wealthy (albeit small) MSA with a diverse set of industries that feed the government.

the other airlines you mentioned that have successfully defended their single (seasonally double) flights to Europe all carry US airline codes on their flights. BA, AF, VS, LH, SK are all sold with their corresponding US-based carrier partner's code.

This codeshare makes them eligible for US government, contractor and supporting pax to fly them and still "fly american". Even in cases where employees are not required to fly a US carrier, if they work extensively with the government (which a majority of DC's major firms do) they will frequently comply with the policies, ad hoc.

This includes QR, which codeshares with UA. EK does not have a US codeshare.

Add in UAs frequent flyer program (and huge installed base), its feeder network, its lack of concern with cash (ditto that for QR), and the fact that the hard product is now superior in many ways to EK in C/J, and I just don't think this is going to end well for EK.

But for you guys in DC, I'm betting on excellent deals in C/J to the middle east!

-G

MAV88 · Fri Mar 16, 2012 1:36 pm

I don't buy the argument that some are making that government related traffic to/from D.C. does not make up a large portion of the business travel. Between those directly work for the government, and those that work in industries related to the government, it has to be a massive amount. One of the biggest reasons the D.C. economy has done so well is the government.

It's interesting that some will make the case that having a large local population in a city/metro area doesn't mean direct service is necessary, yet some do.

washingtonian · Fri Mar 16, 2012 1:48 pm

Quoting MAV88 (Reply 77):

I don't buy the argument that some are making that government related traffic to/from D.C. does not make up a large portion of the business travel.

It depends how you define it. A large portion of the business travel to DC probably is "government related", but it doesn't mean that it's mid-level bureaucrats flying on GSA tickets. Think representatives of private-sector companies flying to DC to meet with regulators, lobbyists, etc. That is why DC is a profitable city for most airlines...

Quoting MAV88 (Reply 77):
Between those directly work for the government, and those that work in industries related to the government, it has to be a massive amount

Again, you have to make a distinction between those who work directly for government and those who work in private sector industries related to government who are not flying on government tickets.

Quoting MAV88 (Reply 77):
One of the biggest reasons the D.C. economy has done so well is the government.

Sure, but that's because most people here have jobs and money as a result of that. So more disposable income, etc. It's definitely because of government, but this doesn't make flights profitable....The people with the money still need to book expensive travel for airlines to make money!

MAV88 · Fri Mar 16, 2012 1:51 pm

Take the capitol out of D.C. and what do you have?

sq_ek_freak · Fri Mar 16, 2012 2:23 pm

Quoting contrails67 (Reply 45):
Taking into account the departure and arrivals to DXB as well as my connecting flights' departure and arrival as well, it will be at least a 12 hour wait in DXB. Does anyone know whether EK provides free hotel accomodations for connecting passengers with a waiting duration of this length?

EK does provide accommodation for a layover that long, plus transfer to the hotel and back to the airport, and meal vouchers for dining at the hotel.

Quoting ual777uk (Reply 72):
There is talk on here that SEA is to quite where EK wants it at the moment. Can i ask, has EK actually ever pulled out of a market? I dont mean downguaged the aircraft, I mean actually pulled out. I cannot think of anywhere it has but stand to be corrected.

On top of what has already been said on this thread (Baku, Comoros, Tripoli), EK has also pulled out of Nagoya and Alexandria (few years ago) and Ho Chi Minh City (many years ago). SGN is coming back this summer, and TIP will probably resume at some point.

GYD has gone to FlyDubai though I always thought it was a high yielding market with all the oil and gas folks going there...HBE has also gone to FlyDubai (better suited for them versus EK).

hohd · Fri Mar 16, 2012 2:28 pm

In addition to EY, UA will also feel the heat. Lots of UA pax connect at DXB ironically with EK. They would come to an end. The Govt traffic alone is not enough, as many govt contracts are priced below the market.

jfidler · Fri Mar 16, 2012 2:53 pm

Quoting MAV88 (Reply 79):
Take the capitol out of D.C. and what do you have?

You have all the other industries. According to the Greater Washington Board of Trade, only 11% of the area workforce is directly employed by the federal government. http://www.greaterwashington.org/regional-data/employment.aspx

There's a huge tech industry in the area, and it's not all tied to the government. Loudoun County in Virginia has the highest concentration of datacenters in the world, for example.

I think it would be a poor decision for an airline to make their decision to open IAD service solely on the prospect of gov't traffic. I just don't think enough is there. I haven't looked, but maybe there is even data to back this up, since those arriving into IAD on official gov't travel will be using their official passport, not their personal passport.

washingtonian · Fri Mar 16, 2012 3:33 pm

Quoting MAV88 (Reply 79):
Take the capitol out of D.C. and what do you have?

This is a ridiculous analogy. It's like saying "Take Wall Street out of NYC, and what do you have?". The fact of the matter is that Washington, DC is the nation's capital and the location of the federal government. It doesn't mean that the federal government is paying for air travel for its employees to everywhere.

I'm actually really so over this argument on A.net. People should take a look at the GSA contacts for government employees. Even to cities with nonstop flights from Washington, people are often stuck flying on random airlines. It's really one of the most overblown arguments on A.net. For example, if you search for a government ticket on Washington-London, it is on American (presumably flown by British Airways), not United with its multiple daily non-stop flights from Dulles.

Quoting jfidler (Reply 82):
I think it would be a poor decision for an airline to make their decision to open IAD service solely on the prospect of gov't traffic. I just don't think enough is there. I haven't looked, but maybe there is even data to back this up, since those arriving into IAD on official gov't travel will be using their official passport, not their personal passport.

Excellent points, but it's much easier for people to not think and just conclude that any new service to Dulles is because of Uncle Sam!

MAV88 · Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:11 pm

I never said that this air service from EK to IAD was due to government traffic. Nor did I ever say that an airline makes their choice to fly to D.C. solely because of the potential government traffic. My whole point is that to try and downplay the fact that Washington, D.C. is the capitol, and between actual government workers and those that are an offshoot (lobbyists, lawyers, industries that rely on government contracts and subsidies, non-profits and foundations that rely on government funding for example) don't make up a significant portion of all business travel to the D.C. area is incorrect.

Anyways, does anyone think EK could eventually elevate this route to the 380?

leftyboarder · Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:17 pm

Quoting MAV88 (Reply 84):
Anyways, does anyone think EK could eventually elevate this route to the 380?

With so many on order, will there be many stations they won't?

jfidler · Fri Mar 16, 2012 4:26 pm

Quoting MAV88 (Reply 84):
Anyways, does anyone think EK could eventually elevate this route to the 380?

Personally, I'd love to see another A380 at IAD (it's just AF at the moment). However, if you look at their press release announcing IAD service (first post in this thread), it is worded to really play up how the new service will support US companies and provides jobs to Americans. The B777 is mentioned specifically in this argument. A good move by their PR firm to head off any "invasion of EK" naysayers.

Of course, memories are short and maybe they could up-gauge this to an A380 in a year's time and no one will make a fuss.

c680 · Fri Mar 16, 2012 6:13 pm

Quoting gabrielz (Reply 76):
The issue isn't that DC is purely a government market at all - to your point it is a wealthy (albeit small) MSA

DC is the #7 MSA in the country - what criteria do you use to consider that a "small" MSA?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_o...tes_Metropolitan_Statistical_Areas

FlyPNS1 · Fri Mar 16, 2012 6:29 pm

Quoting C680 (Reply 87):
DC is the #7 MSA in the country - what criteria do you use to consider that a "small" MSA?

And if you throw in Baltimore (which is reasonable when evaluating international air travel), the DC area is the 4th largest combined statistical area in the country with over 8.5 million people.

flytuitravel · Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:02 pm

Quoting sq_ek_freak (Reply 80):
Quoting ual777uk (Reply 72):
There is talk on here that SEA is to quite where EK wants it at the moment. Can i ask, has EK actually ever pulled out of a market? I dont mean downguaged the aircraft, I mean actually pulled out. I cannot think of anywhere it has but stand to be corrected.

On top of what has already been said on this thread (Baku, Comoros, Tripoli), EK has also pulled out of Nagoya and Alexandria (few years ago) and Ho Chi Minh City (many years ago). SGN is coming back this summer, and TIP will probably resume at some point.

GYD has gone to FlyDubai though I always thought it was a high yielding market with all the oil and gas folks going there...HBE has also gone to FlyDubai (better suited for them versus EK).

They also pulled out of AUH according to wikipedia..

Quokkas · Sat Mar 17, 2012 3:03 am

Quoting sq_ek_freak (Reply 80):
Quoting contrails67 (Reply 45):
Taking into account the departure and arrivals to DXB as well as my connecting flights' departure and arrival as well, it will be at least a 12 hour wait in DXB. Does anyone know whether EK provides free hotel accomodations for connecting passengers with a waiting duration of this length?

EK does provide accommodation for a layover that long, plus transfer to the hotel and back to the airport, and meal vouchers for dining at the hotel.

Be aware that this service needs to be pre-booked at least 24hrs in advance of departure and is subject to class of travel i.e. booking class U, B, M, E, W, R or Y for Economy, or J, D, C, I, O, F, P, Z or A for First and Business. Visit this page for further information. http://www.emirates.com/au/english/p...al_information/long_stopovers.aspx

lightsaber · Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:07 am

I'm with C680 in that I'm eating crow. The poster who noted the hiring is to be commended. What was I doing ratioalizing against such a fact.

How are Ek's SEA loads? With the competition, I would have picked another city. So ORD OR BOS? I would have picked MIA too... But I'll change my vote to that of those that seem to know better.

I believe, thanks to EK's hubbing advantage that they will come out ahead of QR and EY. I suspect EK swill put an A380 on the route and use break even or even low profit J to push a competitor off the route. or three ...

In this economy companies are trying to cut expenses while trying to make employees feel a little pampered. I hypothesize it is why EK, LHN and other good but a few extra J seats squeezed in our doing so well.

Yes, there is a market for SQ's fat easy seat. I'm just a believer in elastic markets. Even for premium seats.

Lightsaber

IndianicWorld · Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:18 am

Quoting sq_ek_freak (Reply 80):
On top of what has already been said on this thread (Baku, Comoros, Tripoli), EK has also pulled out of Nagoya and Alexandria (few years ago) and Ho Chi Minh City (many years ago). SGN is coming back this summer, and TIP will probably resume at some point.

Nagoya was mainly used as way into the Japanese arket from memory, prior to gaining further rights.
SGN is now part of a growing market, so they were likely in there before it had the right level of viability to suit the EK model. The return seems to point to a more positive outlook that it has the right mix to work.
Tripoli being a hotspot of tension and still in a phase of rebuilding is not unexpected.

Quoting sq_ek_freak (Reply 80):
GYD has gone to FlyDubai though I always thought it was a high yielding market with all the oil and gas folks going there...HBE has also gone to FlyDubai (better suited for them versus EK).

Moving flights over to FlyDubai is not really a pure axing of flights by EK, but a more sensible business decision to send a different product into the market.

Schweigend · Sat Mar 17, 2012 6:15 am

Quoting L101fan (Reply 60):
I flew QR from IAD-DOH-KTM and will return next week. The flight from IAD was almost completely full. It was a very good flight. With QR expanding their route structure and the quality of their service I would fly them again with no hesitation.

Kathmandu? What a thrill (I'm jealous)! I think EK serves KTM too, but not AF.

Quoting catiii (Reply 64):
DL isn't carrying much O/D traffic from ATL, however they're maximizing the hub to connect traffic from all over the network through ATL to DXB. For EK, ATL would be a final destination, maximizing traffic through the DXB hub to connect traffic from all over their network to ATL. Different markets entirely.

This is an important concept to understand: for US carriers DXB is basically a termination point, with transfers being interline. EK moves pax on its own metal over Dubai to diverse places. Different markets indeed!

Quoting hohd (Reply 81):
In addition to EY, UA will also feel the heat. Lots of UA pax connect at DXB ironically with EK. They would come to an end. The Govt traffic alone is not enough, as many govt contracts are priced below the market.

Others who may really feel the heat would be AF with their daily A380 IAD-CDG, LH with FRA, and BA with LHR. I don't know what percentage of their pax connect to onward flights at at their respective hubs, but I'd guess the number is fairly high, like 50 percent. EK will compete in many of the same markets they serve, and it will offer some destinations they can't, such as KTM

and the South Pacific.

Quoting jfidler (Reply 86):
Personally, I'd love to see another A380 at IAD (it's just AF at the moment).

We'll see if IAD can support two A380s. If EK brings one in, AF may downgauge.

Quokkas · Sat Mar 17, 2012 7:37 am

Quoting Schweigend (Reply 93):
I think EK serves KTM too,

No, think again. The sector between DXB and KTM is with FZ which, despite being a Dubai owned company is not actually part of the Emirates Group.

airbazar · Sat Mar 17, 2012 12:53 pm

Quoting delta2ual (Reply 56):

While I'm not disputing this fact, it seems my hometown of Detroit would have had EK service by now. According to the Arab-American Institute, Michigan is just behind California with the most Arabs;

Not all Middle Easterns are Arabs. Just saying

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 58):
Discounted tickets to Indians

Well there are a lot more Indians than DC government officials

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 58):
It's less circuitous from Europe to East Africa.

Circuitous compared to what? Most of the traffic between N.America and Africa goes via Europe. It's not that huge of a detour to connect to Africa via DXB as opposed to FRA/CDG/AMS. But regarding Europe-Africa, tt's not East Africa where the market from Europe is. It's West Africa and South Africa: JNB, LAD, LOS. Why do you think IB is pulling out of JNB? Because EK is eating their lunch. What do you think is the market they're after in LIS? LIS-LAD, and LIS-JNB.

[Edited 2012-03-17 05:54:35]

malioil · Sat Mar 17, 2012 1:19 pm

On my frequent UA BAH-KWI-IAD runs, the flights were full in First Class and Y (about 60% in J), but the thing about that is they were government contracts that keep these flights full. In fact, we get NA and OY flights to supplement them, but to be honest, I can't see how EK can truly fill their flights to IAD, although the premium market on that route should be very significant. Nonetheless, out of BAH, if I wanted to go one stop to IAD, I now have BA, UA, KL, QR, TK, LH and soon EK as well as EY. This will apply to the rest of the region. Overcapacity?

N93109 · Sat Mar 17, 2012 3:00 pm

I want to add that the Washington/Baltimore region is also the wealthiest of the metro areas on the country with nearly 9M people according to the 2010 Census and growing. The Baltimore-Washington Metropolitan Area is a combined statistical area consisting of the overlapping labor market region of the cities of Baltimore, Maryland and Washington, D.C.. The region includes Central Maryland, Northern Virginia, and Jefferson County in the Eastern Panhandle of West Virginia. It is the most educated, highest-income, and fourth largest Combined Statistical Area in the United States.[1][2] Officially, the area is designated by the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) as the Washington-Baltimore-Northern Virginia, DC-MD-VA-WV CSA.

Frankly, IAD pulls in Southern PA, the state of MD, and most of WV and VA for the international catchment area which takes the total population over 15 Million.

There is undoubtedly share shift from AF, LH, KL, UA and BA planned for EY and EK to justify these new services.

MaverickM11 · Sat Mar 17, 2012 3:33 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 95):

Circuitous compared to what? Most of the traffic between N.America and Africa goes via Europe

EK carries fairly little traffic from North America to Africa. In fact it carries more traffic to HYD than all of Africa combined.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 95):
Why do you think IB is pulling out of JNB? Because EK is eating their lunch. What do you think is the market they're after in LIS? LIS-LAD, and LIS-JNB.

I highly doubt IB's decision had anything to do with EK. South Africa is simply not a large market from Spain, especially when IB is partnered with one of the largest carriers to South Africa. LAD for TP is mostly ethnic, and not very high fare. If EK is going after that and wanting to fly that traffic thousands of miles further for the same or lower fare, they're not that bright.

[Edited 2012-03-17 08:39:49]

MAH4546 · Sat Mar 17, 2012 3:36 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 95):
Why do you think IB is pulling out of JNB? Because EK is eating their lunch. What do you think is the market they're after in LIS? LIS-LAD, and LIS-JNB.

EK's share of MADJNB is tiny. It averages less than 60 passengers a month between Madrid and Jo'Burg. EK is a great airline, but it's not so amazing that people add 50% distance to get between Europe and South Africa. The reason Iberia is ending JNB is blatantly obvious: it is now part of BA, and there is no need to serve the very small MADJNB market when the money is in LHRJNB.

And to imply that EK will get a share of LISIAD is ridiculous when there are multiple daily LISLAD non-stops, not to mention OPOLIS non-stops. LISJNB is a small market, and TP pulled out.

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