PHX787
Topic Author
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TSA Pats Down Toddler In Wheelchair

Mon Mar 19, 2012 5:58 pm

This video is from 2 years ago, so it's a little dated, but still I saw something similar to this going on at PHX a few months ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNO-AzPxS4U&feature=player_embedded#!

Oh TSA, you always find an excuse. Does anyone know if they've changed their policy on pat-downs to toddlers/elderly recently? (I may have missed it)
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shufflemoomin
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RE: TSA Pats Down Toddler In Wheelchair

Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:14 pm

Why wouldn't they give the same level of scrutiny to the young and elderly? They're not capable of being used to carry weapons, drugs or explosives onto aircraft for some reason that I'm unaware of?
 
Accidentally
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RE: TSA Pats Down Toddler In Wheelchair

Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:21 pm

I'm a quadriplegic in a wheelchair and so is my wife. I don't see at all why we shouldn't be. It's not a big deal at all.
Indianapolis, IN
 
Accidentally
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RE: TSA Pats Down Toddler In Wheelchair

Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:25 pm

Although your post pointed to the young and elderly - and I do apologize for straying from that but folks seem at times appalled they'd be patting us down too and I just dont see the big deal.
Indianapolis, IN
 
ilovepabst
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Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:19 am

RE: TSA Pats Down Toddler In Wheelchair

Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:26 pm

If you don't have the ability to walk through the screening then how else are they going to screen you? I didn't see anything in the video that looked unreasonable.
 
AADC10
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RE: TSA Pats Down Toddler In Wheelchair

Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:41 pm

As much as I think of the TSA as security theater, I can see the need to search a toddler in a wheelchair. While the toddler is unlikely to have packed any contraband, it is easily possible that another person could have planted something on them. Like many things however, it is not handled as professionally as it could have been.
 
ikramerica
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RE: TSA Pats Down Toddler In Wheelchair

Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:32 pm

Quoting shufflemoomin (Reply 1):
Why wouldn't they give the same level of scrutiny to the young and elderly? They're not capable of being used to carry weapons, drugs or explosives onto aircraft for some reason that I'm unaware of?

1. TSA was not chartered to find drugs or large sums of cash. It's just a "happy coincidence" that that seems to be their measure of success these days. Problem is, drugs (enough for felony possession) do not pose a safety risk to the flight, so searching everyone's person for drugs is a violation of the Constitution, as the TSA is a federally empowered and mandated agency conducting a warrantless search under the guise of looking for something else. These are not international flights we are talking about where the search is being done upon entering the country, with cause. These are mandatory searches for travel within the country, something that does not require or demand such contraband searches.
2. Unless and until they find your phantom weapons on babies and the eldery, it's a red herring argument. It's more likely you'd find them up a 25 year old man's bum, but you are not suggesting we do anal exams just to be safe (see South Park's TSA spoof for that). Of course not, but it's okay to harass old people and babies "just in case"? Of course not either.

Maybe we need to go back the questions: "has anyone besides yourself handled or packed your grandmother within the last 24 hours? has your baby been out of your possession at any time?"

That said, a wheel chair must be examined. Examining a physical object like a wheel chair is not an issue. It's not a person, or a purse or a locked computer. And the kid has a broken leg, not a disability. Why are they simply not picking up the damn kid and walking him through x-ray like you would with any other baby or small child? Casts don't set off alarms unless there is metal splint inside (this one looks like a simple, non-splint variety), and even then they would wand the pair afterward should the alarm go off. Why is he strapped in the chair the whole time? This whole video is the fault of the parent, not the TSA here. The TSA dude is being pretty friendly and nice about it, while he's trying to work around the kid to inspect the chair without scaring the crap out of him.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
prebennorholm
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RE: TSA Pats Down Toddler In Wheelchair

Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:28 am

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
This video is from 2 years ago, so it's a little dated, but still I saw something similar to this going on at PHX a few months ago.

I do hope that you can see exactly the same thing every day around the world. TSA did a perfect job. Not just a a tecnically perfect job, but he also did it in a friendly and polite manner.

But if I had been the poor boy's father, then I would have offered to carry the boy through the scanner. It would have made the job a lot simpler and faster.

If we ever again see an attempt to bring a knife on board a plane to be used 9/11 style, then it's a hell of a lot more likely to be hidden in a kid's wheel chair structure or in a kid's broken leg cast than in the carry-on bag of a 25 years old arab looking man.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
penguins
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RE: TSA Pats Down Toddler In Wheelchair

Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:51 am

I'm sure there are people out there who would use a child like this one to accomplish their distractive goal.
 
PanHAM
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RE: TSA Pats Down Toddler In Wheelchair

Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:41 am

Quoting penguins (Reply 8):
I'm sure there are people out there who would use a child like this one to accomplish their distractive goal.

yes, but they would look different.


This is criminal, it is child abuse, nothing less. The kid did not know what was going on and he was scared.

I have said that before and one can only repeat it, the terrorists on 9/11 have won. They are the clear winners in this and the travelling public in America and to a lesser extend outside the USA are the clear losers.

I am glad that I live and most of my travelling is in Europe where the authorities still use their brains and people still can speak up against such treatment without getting thrown into the slammer, in short, where we still have our civil rights.
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
cruiseshipcrew
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Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2008 10:30 pm

RE: TSA Pats Down Toddler In Wheelchair

Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:55 am

Looks fine to me. The TSA man was kind and made small talk asking about the boys experience to make it as comfortable as possible.
James - Road Warrior
 
dc9northwest
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RE: TSA Pats Down Toddler In Wheelchair

Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:26 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 9):
yes, but they would look different.


This is criminal, it is child abuse, nothing less. The kid did not know what was going on and he was scared.

I have said that before and one can only repeat it, the terrorists on 9/11 have won. They are the clear winners in this and the travelling public in America and to a lesser extend outside the USA are the clear losers.

I am glad that I live and most of my travelling is in Europe where the authorities still use their brains and people still can speak up against such treatment without getting thrown into the slammer, in short, where we still have our civil rights.

For those of us who regularly travel in the US and outside the US... the difference is clear. Ok, there's still that stupid liquid rule which I still think was lobbied for by airport concessions stand owners so they can charge 5$ for a bottle of water (hyperbole), but otherwise security in Europe is much more civilized (aside from CDG, of course, which is anything but civilized).

Hell, even with the same procedures, security can be much more civilized--there's a big difference in the US between security by private contractors (I fly out of MCI often and it's much better there) and the TSA (MDW agents I find are among the rudest and most incompetent).

And guess what, it's not like there are more security incidents elsewhere in the world because others don't X-ray everything that gets on the plane, including people.
 
eaa3
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RE: TSA Pats Down Toddler In Wheelchair

Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:57 am

This seemed fine. I think the dad was making way to big a deal out of this. He was courteous to the kid. The dad could have walked with his son through the metal detector but given that the father chose not to do that I don´t see what else the TSA could have done. You have to search everyone.
 
CZ346
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RE: TSA Pats Down Toddler In Wheelchair

Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:19 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 9):

Man, I'm not sure how you classify this as criminal.

You're right, the kid didn't know what was going on. And I'm sure that the father going off was not doing a very good job to help that one. The agent was being as nice as possible to ensure a safe and thorough examination of the child's wheelchair. End of story. TSA has been given a hand of cards to play with, and in my opinion they've done a great job. Of course there are parts that they could do better. Theres ALWAYS something that can be done better. Thats learning, thats improvement. Luckily you guys don't have the risk that the US does. If they did, they'd do the same thing. For god sake, China hasn't had any terrorist actions and they pat down 80% of people walking through!

I apologize for going off topic and being an idiot by reacting to your whole regurgitated "terrorists won" deal - but you clearly have quite a skewed idea of terrorists winning. Let me give you an example of terrorist winning: Somalia. A security screening done by a government employee is not exactly terrorists winning. You'd say the same thing if (god forbid) a terrorist got past TSA and pulled another 9/11. Grow up dude. Not everything can be as perfect as your precious little Germany because we have things you don't have to deal with - and vice versa.
 
PanHAM
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RE: TSA Pats Down Toddler In Wheelchair

Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:40 am

Quoting CZ346 (Reply 13):
The agent was being as nice as possible to ensure a safe and thorough examination of the child's

fom the child's point of view about as nice as the friendly uncle with the candy bar. This kind of pat downs for small children are extremely unnecessary. The boys sister has more understanding than the whole TSA, trying to hug and comfort her brother.

Quoting CZ346 (Reply 13):
Luckily you guys don't have the risk that the US does.

One can make this up-. we have the same risk the USA has. Except that we do not react hysterical. We do not consider ourselves at war either. That makes the difference.
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comair25
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RE: TSA Pats Down Toddler In Wheelchair

Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:58 am

Apparently the US public and many people on this forum think only middle age men (any race), but preferably Arabic can only be terrorist so searching any other is not needed. Putting weapons, such as broken down compact handguns and knifes are impossible to hide on a young toddler such as that in the video. Also Elderly people would NEVER be used am I right? Some people need to open their eyes. This TSA agent did a text book job off handling this. Get off his case as there is nothing here to see.
 
CZ346
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RE: TSA Pats Down Toddler In Wheelchair

Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:10 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 14):
fom the child's point of view about as nice as the friendly uncle with the candy bar. This kind of pat downs for small children are extremely unnecessary. The boys sister has more understanding than the whole TSA, trying to hug and comfort her brother.

And I understand that. I'm not saying that the kid has come up with a plot to take out the pilots and pull an act of terrorism, but as it has been said before, is it possible a defect place something that the child unknowingly carries in? Absolutely. Likely? Absolutely not.

Its a different situation with much more variables and loss of control, but think about this - I'm not sure if you have seen the documentary "marijuana queen"; but its a documentary about a Sydney woman who is traveling to Indonesia. The baggage handlers open her bag and pop in a couple kilos of the green stuff for another handler on the other end to pull out when the plane arrives. They miss the bag and the woman walks through customs with it in her bag. Next thing she knows shes got 10 years in jail. Again, a different situation but someone can always drop undesirables in luggage or effects and you have no idea. Likely? Nope. Possible? Yep. Thats the angle the TSA is taking.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 14):
One can make this up-. we have the same risk the USA has. Except that we do not react hysterical. We do not consider ourselves at war either. That makes the difference.

You're right about that too. Anywhere there is an aircraft the same risk ensues, and being a Prideful American this is hard to say, but lets be honest - those terrorists target the US much more than European Countries.

And you're right about the hysteria. I have absolutely 0 argument on that one. The US is a lot more nervous and sensitive to these situations. When I was in the US I had my flight held for 30 minutes and the gate agents kept telling us to hold on - hold on, the pax are on their way. We almost left and we saw this timid guy walk down the jetway. Sit in his seat and we get the thumbs up. Turns out the guy was questioned about something in his bag. He responded "ITS A BOMB". State Police, FBI, the WHOLE 9 yard were scrambled. The guy received a "full" pat down and examination and 45 minutes later was allowed to go. The flat line about it is different cultures ; different situations ; different actions. I think that here in about 10 years technology will take the place of a lot of these "decision makers" and take the problems that most people are seeing.

Also; I didn't mean to sound as harsh as I did. The "terrorists won" comment just set me off. My bad man...
 
cmf
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RE: TSA Pats Down Toddler In Wheelchair

Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:17 pm

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 6):
Unless and until they find your phantom weapons on babies and the eldery, it's a red herring argument. It's more likely you'd find them up a 25 year old man's bum,

The most likely place is one stated as not being searched. Stating children and elderly are excluded means they become a perfect option.

This is why no-one should be excluded from searches, not even pilots. It is not that they can crash the plane anyway. It is that they can be made to carry things in for someone. Not uncommon to use hostage situations to make someone do "things".

Quoting CZ346 (Reply 16):
is it possible a defect place something that the child unknowingly carries in? Absolutely. Likely? Absolutely not.

Nothing what they search for is likely. Good thing. If it was likely few people would be comfortable flying.
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