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n7371f
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Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 1

Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:53 pm

Coming out of the International Society of Transport Aircraft Trading Americas (ISTAT) is word that Delta has a deal in place to take AirTran's 717's. The conference is in Scottsdale...and now seeing a few follow on tweets about this.
 
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litz
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Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 1

Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:58 pm

If that were to become true, that would probably be the easiest aircraft transfer in the history of commercial aviation, since they'd basically just have to taxi from one side of ATL to the other ...

(I'm not sure what DL would do with the smaller 717, other than use it as essentially a large RJ ... but there's no questioning the fact that they have lots of MadDog experience ... If this were to happen, would they then become the first - and the only - operator to concurrently operate the DC9, MD80, MD90, and 717/MD95?)
 
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ssteve
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Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 1

Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:04 pm

Quoting litz (Reply 1):
If this were to happen, would they then become the first - and the only - operator to concurrently operate the DC9, MD80, MD90, and 717/MD95?)

TWA?
 
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1337Delta764
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Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 1

Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:04 pm

If these rumors are true, hopefully DL installs AVOD on them.

Quote:
TWA?

TWA never operated the MD-90 as far as I know.

[Edited 2012-03-19 15:05:39]
 
atrude777
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Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 1

Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:07 pm

Quoting SSTeve (Reply 2):
TWA?

TWA never flew the MD90.

Interesting rumor, I follow Delta Tech on twitter and nothing on their twitter feed as of yet.

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
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seabosdca
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Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 1

Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:08 pm

This will surprise the hell out of me if it's true, but the buzz just won't stop. I'm amazed that they'd take on 176 BR715s and yet another 88-frame floor-to-ceiling interior refurb project.

If it does come true, and I'm a Bombardier executive, I'm going to want many very stiff drinks.   

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 3):
If these rumors are true, hopefully DL installs AVOD on them.

Hard to imagine when they're optimized for 1- to 2-hour missions.
 
PIEAvantiP180
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Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 1

Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:09 pm

Great news if true. Direct one for one replacement for the DC9 and these planes will be great out of the new LGA hub to many destinations. Plus i'm sure they will get these planes on the cheap. Another thing to consider now is that the 717 will have commonality with the Saudi MD90s and it would improve the chances of DL getting those birds too.
 
starrion
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Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 1

Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:41 pm

And cheap at the price I would imagine.

Getting reliable airframes at rock bottom prices. That sounds like Delta from a long time ago.
Knowledge Replaces Fear
 
timf
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Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 1

Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:47 pm

The 717s will be a perfect fit for Delta. All they have to do is slap in some blue leather seat covers and carpet, put on a new coat of paint, and they will fit right in with the rest of the fleet. They even have GoGo installed already. The DC-9-50s can finally be retired and some of the CRJ/EMB routes can be upgauged. The only downside to this is it likely rules out a C-Series or other small narrowbody order. However, it is the most logical move for Delta and continues their (and NW's) opportunistic purchase of used aircraft strategy.
 
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coronado
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Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 1

Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:54 pm

Delta new tag line if this comes true: We have the least domestic dreaded middle seats to most popular business destinations.
The Original Coronado: First CV jet flights RG CV 990 July 1965; DL CV 880 July 1965; Spantax CV990 Feb 1973
 
D L X
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Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 1

Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:00 pm

What happened to Southwest's saying they see "exciting" new opportunities with the 717 in their fleet?
 
dtw9
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Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 1

Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:01 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 10):
What happened to Southwest's saying they see "exciting" new opportunities with the 717 in their fleet?

That ended when the ink dried on the merger papers
 
dbo861
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Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 1

Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:03 pm

According to Airlinepilotcentral.com (granted, not the greatest source), Delta has 29 DC9s in services. There are 88 AirTran 717s. If Delta took all 88, only 29 would be used as 1 to 1 replacements for the remaining DC9s, that leaves a net increase of 59 aircraft. Would the rest back fill the previously retired DC9s? Maybe allow DL to retire some older MD88s? Could these possibly be used for domestic growth as the economy slowly recovers?
 
kcrwflyer
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Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 1

Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:04 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 10):
What happened to Southwest's saying they see "exciting" new opportunities with the 717 in their fleet?

They're excited to get rid of them. All of that talk died off with the talks of them keeping all of the AirTran cities.
 
deltal1011man
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Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 1

Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:07 pm

Quoting dbo861 (Reply 12):

i would say they will be used to replace the DC9 but also some CRJs.

note i wont believe it till i see a 717 in delta colors. They have talking up a 100 seater for many, many years and nothing has happened....

[Edited 2012-03-19 16:09:00]
 
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usxguy
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Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 1

Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:08 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 10):
What happened to Southwest's saying they see "exciting" new opportunities with the 717 in their fleet?

Exciting NEW marketing opportunities for Boeing Capital ^_^
xx
 
jporterfi
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Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 1

Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:20 pm

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 3):
If these rumors are true, hopefully DL installs AVOD on them.

I doubt that Delta will install AVOD on them because there are no plans for the installation of AVOD on MD-88s, are there? And wouldn't they tend to do it on bigger aircraft first? Sooner or later, the MD-88s and 717s are going to have to be retired in favor of the Boeing 737 MAX or Airbus A320neo; some of them are getting old. This would not make it worth installing AVOD on them, especially as they are narrowbody aircraft often used for relatively short routes (although Delta did install AVOD on some of their 737s).
PPC (ASEL) | Aircraft Flown: PA28, C172, DA20
 
deltal1011man
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Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 1

Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:32 pm

Quoting jporterfi (Reply 16):

M80s can't do AVOD or any IFE.

717/M90s can.
 
gigneil
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Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 1

Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:36 pm

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 17):
M80s can't do AVOD or any IFE.

Sure they can.

They just don't.

NS
 
catiii
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Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 1

Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:38 pm

"717's to DL" threads are becoming the new "What will NW do with the DC-9s?" thread.  
 
jporterfi
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Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 1

Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:40 pm

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 17):

Those aircraft are almost identical, so I would be very surprised if the MD-80s couldn't but the 717s and MD-90s could.

Quoting gigneil (Reply 18):
Sure they can.

They just don't.

  
PPC (ASEL) | Aircraft Flown: PA28, C172, DA20
 
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1337Delta764
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Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 1

Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:41 pm

Quoting gigneil (Reply 18):
Sure they can.

They just don't.

NS

Actually, the relay panels on DL's MD-88s are too small for IFE. To install IFE would require a larger relay panel. Considering that AirTran's 717s were XM-equipped, I don't think it would be impossible to add AVOD on them.
 
deltal1011man
Posts: 5393
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Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 1

Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:41 pm

Quoting gigneil (Reply 18):

eh I don't think they have room on the fuse panel. You would have to ask a 88 Tech for the specs. Not my department.  
 
jmc1975
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Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 1

Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:46 pm

Quoting dbo861 (Reply 12):
According to Airlinepilotcentral.com (granted, not the greatest source), Delta has 29 DC9s in services. There are 88 AirTran 717s. If Delta took all 88, only 29 would be used as 1 to 1 replacements for the remaining DC9s, that leaves a net increase of 59 aircraft. Would the rest back fill the previously retired DC9s? Maybe allow DL to retire some older MD88s? Could these possibly be used for domestic growth as the economy slowly recovers?

Along with retiring DC9s & older MD88s, DL is anxious to get rid of alot of 50-seat RJ flying. The 717 is far more economical than the CRJ in terms of CASM, so you'd see the 717 placed in markets currently served with a mix of CR9s, D95s & M88s. Markets with CRJs could potentially be back-filled with CR7s & CR9s with fewer frequencies as fuel costs rise.
.......
 
deltal1011man
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Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 1

Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:53 pm

Quoting jporterfi (Reply 20):

Those aircraft are almost identical, so I would be very surprised if the MD-80s couldn't but the 717s and MD-90s could.

The Avionics aren't. Heck most of the electrical systems are different. Its not like a M90 is a M80 with new engines.

Also the 717 has a M11 style cockpit vs the half glas of the DL M80/M90

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 21):

both MD-90 types (90/95) are IFE possible.
 
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N62NA
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Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 1

Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:53 pm

Quoting Coronado (Reply 9):
Delta new tag line if this comes true: We have the least domestic dreaded middle seats to most popular business destinations.

Very creative.  

Quoting dbo861 (Reply 12):
Would the rest back fill the previously retired DC9s?

My thoughts exactly, but.... weren't the airlines saying not to long ago that there is "too much capacity" out there? Retiring the DC9-30s reduced capacity, so now they would be adding capacity once again.
 
PHX787
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Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 1

Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:00 am

Quoting litz (Reply 1):
If that were to become true, that would probably be the easiest aircraft transfer in the history of commercial aviation, since they'd basically just have to taxi from one side of ATL to the other ...

I have a chilling feeling that these might be based out of CVG. I've never been one and as a SkyMiles member, might as well try it.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 3):
If these rumors are true, hopefully DL installs AVOD on them.

What's the maximum distance that an FL 717 has flown ?
Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
 
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NC1844V
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Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 1

Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:07 am

That's exciting news if its true. Like other members here, its hard to believe that Delta would be interested in the 717, but we will just have to see what happens. I wont believe it until I see a 717 in Delta colors, but think of what a sharp looking bird that would be!  
Steven
 
max550
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Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 1

Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:08 am

DL and FL both use GoGo wi-fi. Will the 717's be able to just use all the same equipment and basically arrive with wi-fi already installed?
 
goboeing
Posts: 2575
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 5:31 am

Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 1

Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:09 am

Anyone have any take on CASM with the 717 supposedly being a decent amount higher then the CR7, CR9, MD-88/90, and also the 737NG series?
 
flyabr
Posts: 869
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Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 1

Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:23 am

Hope this is true! most of those 717 birds are just too young to become bud light cans!! Give 'em a home DL!
 
dynkrisolo
Posts: 1849
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2001 12:12 am

Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 1

Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:25 am

While the merged DL feels more like the old DL than NW, in terms of fleet planning, the NW spirit seems to have survived!  

If the rumor is true, this pretty much closes the door for CS100 (and CS300) at DL. Then Boeing would be the biggest winner.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 26):
I have a chilling feeling that these might be based out of CVG.

Nay! It would be too big for CVG. It could be interesting for LGA, just a thought.
 
Dldiamondboy
Posts: 78
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Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 1

Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:32 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 3):
TWA never operated the MD-90 as far as I know.

You are correct. DC-9's from Ozark and MD-80's, and for a short period of time pre Totally Wasted by American the 717 or MD-95 which ever you prefer.
 
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Acey559
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Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 1

Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:35 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 26):
What's the maximum distance that an FL 717 has flown ?

Offhand I'm not sure, but FL used to do MLI-LAS with the 717 back in '04 or so which is 1196nm. I remember it being said that that was about the max, and in fact MLI-LAS could be done but they wouldn't do BMI-LAS because of the headwinds westbound. Wikipedia has the range listed as 2060nm but practically I'm not sure what their furthest route is/was.
In Dixie Land I'll take my stand to live and die in Dixie.
 
PC12Fan
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Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 1

Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:37 am

Quoting SSTeve (Reply 2):
If this were to happen, would they then become the first - and the only - operator to concurrently operate the DC9, MD80, MD90, and 717/MD95?)

TWA?
Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 3):
TWA never operated the MD-90 as far as I know.

Wish they had.  
Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
 
Dldiamondboy
Posts: 78
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:21 pm

Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 1

Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:38 am

Quoting jmc1975 (Reply 23):
long with retiring DC9s & older MD88s, DL is anxious to get rid of alot of 50-seat RJ flying. The 717 is far more economical than the CRJ in terms of CASM, so you'd see the 717 placed in markets currently served with a mix of CR9s, D95s & M88s. Markets with CRJs could potentially be back-filled with CR7s & CR9s with fewer frequencies as fuel costs rise.

The faster the CRJ-200's are gone the better. No first class, no WIFI, no AVOD, DL still uses the -200 on routes over 2 hours. I would rather fly on a 40 year old DC-9 or it's modern day brethren the 717. Given DL love affair with the MD-90. if the price was right I can see them taxiing east to the DL TOC.
 
swafa
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Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 1

Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:50 am

80 plus frames are a lot for SWA to replace. More than 10% of the combined fleet. I wonder if it would happen all at once or over a period of time giving SWA time to replace them with more 700/800's
 
nwafflyer
Posts: 888
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Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 1

Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:58 am

I would absolutely love to see the 717 replace the CJ 100/200 - most uncomfortable planes I have ever been on. The ERJ's are better - at least, I don't get physically ill trying to look out the window.
 
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Polot
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Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 1

Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:05 am

Is the rumor that DL would receive them as the leases are up, or are they giving WN cash or some other incentives to take them off their hands early?
 
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United_fan
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Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 1

Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:06 am

This is great news . I hope it comes true. The 717 would look great in DL colors. Those MD88's aren't getting any newer or quieter. We shall see.
"Suspicion is a matter of opinion"
 
CV880
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Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 1

Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:14 am

Quoting dbo861 (Reply 12):
Could these possibly be used for domestic growth as the economy slowly recovers?

Interisland flying known as D'Aloha.  
 
cubastar
Posts: 314
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Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 1

Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:16 am

Quoting starrion (Reply 7):
That sounds like Delta from a long time ago.

Mr Woolman taught us to recycle paperclips a Loooooong time ago.
 
Cubsrule
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Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 1

Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:16 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 26):
I have a chilling feeling that these might be based out of CVG. I've never been one and as a SkyMiles member, might as well try it.

If some are to replace the D95 - a very sensible proposition, by the way - there would almost assuredly be a good number based at ATL, as the D95 seems to have settled in to lots of short-haul ATL flying (MEM, BNA, etc.)
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
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2707200X
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Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 1

Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:26 am

I have to admit, the 717 would look very nice in the 717 livery, I just cannot see Southwest as really interested in the 717. It is a good design compliment for the MD-90, great for the Atlanta base for southern regional operations and Florida.
"And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by." John Masefield Sea-Fever
 
luvtrains
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Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 1

Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:32 am

While such a deal is complex, it is synergistic and desirable to all parties. Southwest(SW) would ultimately trade 88 117seat non-conforming aircraft for ~88 175seat core aircraft. Delta(DL) would acquire ~100 used 117seat mainline aircraft replacing older DC/MD aircraft. Boeing would redeploy ~21 idled 717s sitting @ Victorville and deepen their relationship with two core-Boeing clients.

Hypothetically, the deal would be structured such that SW transfers the BCC leases of 80 md95s and the ownership of the remaining eight md95s to Delta. Delta would trade their 10 737-700s to Southwest. BCC would lease ~12 additional md95s to Delta. (Cobham, Volotea, and Hawaiian are each taking two of the parked Victorville md95s). Volotea and Boeing may, per wikipedia, have an implied understanding for further availability of additional md95s.

SW concentrates on integration without the process/cost of repainting, new interiors, integration of the md95s. SW realigns their lease:ownership ratio back to ~15%. But most desirable to Gary Kelly is the goal of a ubiquitous fleet and culture. Mr. Kelly ~Christmas 2015 fleet should look about like this: ~100 137seat old reliable 733(WL)s, ~500 143seat ubiquitous 737-7s, ~100 175seat 738s, plus the 10 737-700s from DL.
*SW's 25 735s will likely be retired at the next D-check ~2014-2015.
*SW's 63 733s without winglets and electronic flight decks will likely be retired at the upcoming D-checks.
*SW's 2012-2015 orders: 33, 41, 54, 48 = 176 (from 2011 10K). Wow, the summarized hypothetical numbers are precise when calculated with the current fleet.

DL gets ~100 md95s, along with the incoming renovated md90s, to replace their dc9s/md88s & a couple of odd ab319s. Ed Bastian’s conundrum of an aging fleet and debt containment goals are solved by his sweet-heart MDs; despite the Boeing moniker.
Mr Bastian’s preference for tried aircraft and stretched aircraft is reasonably public. Intangible, material, Atlanta, Montreal, CS300…, while it is reasonable to expect conversations to have occurred; a prudent hypothesis would be that Mr. Bastian would prefer to place an order for ~100 CS500s after the series has flown for a few years.
*Bombardier’s stock price, while roughly flat YTD, has slipped ~13% over the last thirty days.

Boeing gets ~21 idled aircraft into revenue service earning a lease return. Likely they will push DL to give up a few ab319s. SW has clearly stated that they do not wish to extend the 717 leases, Boeing gets a leasee that wants the planes, the leases and is willing maximize the assets lifespan.

This mosaic is based on public information; admonishment on detail is welcome and encouraged.
 
deltal1011man
Posts: 5393
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Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 1

Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:35 am

Quoting luvtrains (Reply 44):

All good minus the part about Delta's 73Ws. They aren't leaving, Delta got them for key markets which can't be done by any aircraft in the fleet other than maybe the 57s.
 
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Polot
Posts: 11237
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 1

Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:37 am

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 45):
All good minus the part about Delta's 73Ws. They aren't leaving, Delta got them for key markets which can't be done by any aircraft in the fleet other than maybe the 57s.

How does their performance compare to the A319?
 
luvtrains
Posts: 10
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Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 1

Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:44 am

Regarding the md95s replacing CRJ aircraft, this is difficult to proposition to accept. The delineation between Delta Connect and the mainline fleet makes this a material sticking point. Is there someone, remaining within the context of the 717, that could give credence or detail to this possibility?

The more likely demise/replacement of the Delta Connect fleet (versus the 717) would be newly designed, fuel efficient, turbo props and more next-nextgen crj900s… /clearly the boarder of a new thread possibility v. discussion of dl717s/
 
dtw9
Posts: 997
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2003 10:09 am

Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 1

Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:47 am

Quoting luvtrains (Reply 44):
Boeing would redeploy ~21 idled 717s sitting @ Victorville

There isn't 21 sitting idle. The MX birds are spoken for. However there are 7 ex-turkmenistan 717's recently parked that could also be part of this deal if it is true.

Quoting 2707200X (Reply 43):
I have to admit, the 717 would look very nice in the 717 livery

Sure would


 
Flaps
Posts: 1680
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2000 1:11 pm

Latest 717 Rumor: DL Deal In Place Part 1

Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:52 am

I love the entire MD80/90/717 line and as a DL elite I certainly hope this rumor is true.

As for what WN gets out of the deal perhaps the FL purchase was meant more to eliminate a competitor (aka AA/TW) than a major growth purchase. Maybe WN is only planning to use part of the FL assets and market share in its long term plans. They are getting a substantial number of 737's in the deal and combined with the 737's they already have on order maybe that is all they need?

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