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ozglobal
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EK Pay Compensation For Non-A380 Service

Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:18 pm

It is very often written here that 99.9% of passengers don't have any idea what type they are flying. Here's a strong counter example, with EK paying compensation in miles and cash to passengers whose A380 expectation was dissappointed due to equipment changes for current wing matenance issues:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...nes-will-fail-in-fuel-squeeze.html

Looks like type awareness is quite strong with passengers on this front... (unless this story is a propaganda stunt).
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
pnwtraveler
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RE: EK Pay Compensation For Non-A380 Service

Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:22 pm

And you know they will be asking for compensation from Airbus for that amount plus as indicated in other threads. I lvoe compensation and if you know how to work the system it really works in the customers favour. i would specifically try to book flights that had 777 substitution just for that reason  .
 
avi8
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RE: EK Pay Compensation For Non-A380 Service

Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:56 pm

How many A380's are currently opperating? How is it that EK managed to sub the routes with 777W without substantially decreasing services?
avi8
 
ozglobal
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RE: EK Pay Compensation For Non-A380 Service

Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:00 pm

Quoting avi8 (Reply 2):
How many A380's are currently opperating? How is it that EK managed to sub the routes with 777W without substantially decreasing services?

"Emirates operates 21 A380s, with 69 more on order as it seeks to establish Dubai as a global hub ...."
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
iainbhx
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RE: EK Pay Compensation For Non-A380 Service

Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:34 pm

During some A380 problems at the end of 2010, I received compensation from SQ for my A380 being changed to a 744-400. So EK aren't alone in having done that.
iainbhx
 
something
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RE: EK Pay Compensation For Non-A380 Service

Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:44 pm

Quoting ozglobal (Thread starter):
Looks like type awareness is quite strong with passengers on this front..

It's too big to not notice you're on a different kind of plane.
..sick of it. -K. Pilkington.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: EK Pay Compensation For Non-A380 Service

Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:28 am

I think for J and F class passengers it is the onboard lounges. That has been a selling factor.

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RyanairGuru
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RE: EK Pay Compensation For Non-A380 Service

Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:29 am

Quoting avi8 (Reply 2):
How is it that EK managed to sub the routes with 777W without substantially decreasing services?

They subbed for routes with the lightest loads on any given day to try and keep the impact minimal
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
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hhslax2
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RE: EK Pay Compensation For Non-A380 Service

Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:45 am

Quoting iainbhx (Reply 4):
During some A380 problems at the end of 2010, I received compensation from SQ for my A380 being changed to a 744-400. So EK aren't alone in having done that.

Perfectly understandable since SQ charges a surcharge for A380 routes.
 
9vswr
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RE: EK Pay Compensation For Non-A380 Service

Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:02 am

Quoting hhslax2 (Reply 8):
Perfectly understandable since SQ charges a surcharge for A380 routes.

SQ never charged an A380 surcharge per se. There were only surcharges on bookings for the new Business and Suites Class products over the 'regular' Business and First Class products. Surcharges were not applicable for Economy Class bookings.
 
ChazPilot
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RE: EK Pay Compensation For Non-A380 Service

Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:50 am

Quoting hhslax2 (Reply 8):
Perfectly understandable since SQ charges a surcharge for A380 routes.

I was going to say same thing - don't most A380 operators charge a surplus to fly this aircraft, knowing the interest from a sizeable number of passengers? I know that for a while, and maybe still, airlines would restrict the selection of A380 serviced routes for lower fare classes, RTW fares, etc.
 
sankaps
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RE: EK Pay Compensation For Non-A380 Service

Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:19 am

I don't think EK and SQ charge more for flying the A380 per se; it is just that they have installed a better product in the A380 (seats, suites, showers, bars/lounges, IFE, etc) and they charge more for that product. Therefore if that product is not delivered, pax (in F anf J class) deserve the surcharge back.

Same would be true if they installed the better product on a 777 or 747. I don't think the pax are saying "I didn't get the A380, I want some money back", they may instead be feeling "I didn't get the Suite / bar / lounge that was promised, I want some money back".
 
ghifty
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RE: EK Pay Compensation For Non-A380 Service

Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:28 am

Quoting ChazPilot (Reply 10):
knowing the interest from a sizeable number of passengers?

I don't think interest to fly an A380 is that high.. I mean, most people will just think to themselves "bigger tube with wings." Now, customer recognition of the A380 is an entirely different thing. If they come to the gate expecting the largest commercial jet, they'll want the largest jet. Most normal people probably can't discern between a 777 and A330.. let alone a 777 and 767.
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CXB77L
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RE: EK Pay Compensation For Non-A380 Service

Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:34 am

Quoting sankaps (Reply 11):
I don't think the pax are saying "I didn't get the A380, I want some money back", they may instead be feeling "I didn't get the Suite / bar / lounge that was promised, I want some money back".

        

Is it really the A380 they're compensating for, or is it really that EK's product aboard the A380 is better than on any other aircraft in their fleet? If I booked a 777 flight with EK and an A380 turned up at the gate, can I ask for compensation?

To the best of my knowledge, no airline would guarantee that aircraft subsitution would not occur. It's a fact of life that some aircraft will, for one reason or another, and at one time or another, need to be substituted by another. To pay compensation every time there's a substitution would open the floodgates.
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hoons90
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RE: EK Pay Compensation For Non-A380 Service

Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:56 am

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 13):
Is it really the A380 they're compensating for, or is it really that EK's product aboard the A380 is better than on any other aircraft in their fleet? If I booked a 777 flight with EK and an A380 turned up at the gate, can I ask for compensation?

In Economy Class, both the EK 777 and A380 are in a 3-4-3 layout, even though the cabin of the 777 is narrower by 0.72m.
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zkokq
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RE: EK Pay Compensation For Non-A380 Service

Fri Mar 23, 2012 5:00 am

I was going to ask a question about this, glad this topic was created. I am flying EK SYD > DXB > FCO and am hoping not to miss out on the A380 considering I paid an extra $400 for the flight over the 77W.
 
CXB77L
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RE: EK Pay Compensation For Non-A380 Service

Fri Mar 23, 2012 5:02 am

Quoting HOONS90 (Reply 14):
In Economy Class, both the EK 777 and A380 are in a 3-4-3 layout, even though the cabin of the 777 is narrower by 0.72m.

That's true, and that's the point I'm trying to make. It's the product that EK are compensating for, not the aircraft type. If it were based on an aircraft type, then every time there is a substitution, I could make the same argument: they sold me a 777 flight, and I ended up with an A380? Where's my free miles?
Boeing 777 fanboy
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: EK Pay Compensation For Non-A380 Service

Fri Mar 23, 2012 5:41 am

The A380 is likely the exception to the rule on the roader customers knowledge of aircraft.

A few of the airlines have stated that they are receiving higher loads and geberal booking interest on their A380 operated services, which points to a greater awareness of the aircraft.
 
Quokkas
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RE: EK Pay Compensation For Non-A380 Service

Fri Mar 23, 2012 5:47 am

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 13):
or is it really that EK's product aboard the A380 is better

While there isn't that much difference for passengers travelling in Y (although the A380 is quieter) when it comes to J and F there is an appreciable difference. In J every seat effectively has aisle access and there is a bar-lounge area. For passengers in F there are the suites and of course the famous showers. If I had paid a fare expecting a suite and a shower and ended up with one of the 77Ws with a 2-2-2 lie-flat seat, I'd be disappointed.

On the general issue of substitution, the EK website does state that they do not guarantee that the aircraft type or product as these may change due to operational circumstances.
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astuteman
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RE: EK Pay Compensation For Non-A380 Service

Fri Mar 23, 2012 5:52 am

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 13):
Is it really the A380 they're compensating for, or is it really that EK's product aboard the A380 is better than on any other aircraft in their fleet?
Quoting CXB77L (Reply 16):
It's the product that EK are compensating for, not the aircraft type

I'm fascinated to know what the difference is.

And why we're so desperate to divorce the A380 itself from any positive perceptions when the quantity of documentation to the contrary is unavoidable.

EK could have put 18"-19" seats in their 77W's. Or any of their other aircraft. But they didn't
They could have put bars in their 77W's. Or any of their other aircraft. But they didn't.
They could have put showers in their 77W's, or any of their other aircraft. But they didn't.

Therefore the product standard and aircraft type are interdependent. You can't separate them.

And attempting to do so is deliberately trying to avoid all of those characteristics that make the 380 the aircraft that it is.

Rgds
 
EY460
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RE: EK Pay Compensation For Non-A380 Service

Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:04 am

When I was trying to book a flight from Sydney to Europe, the flights operating with A380 were always more expensive than those with B777 (but maybe that was caused by loads). I think EK is right to compensate passengers for the swap, not because they are not flying the A380, but because the service levels are different:
- For F passengers: even if the B777 had suites, no showers or lounge;
- For J passengers: older style of seating (no real lie flat on B777) and no lounge;
- For Y passengers: narrower seats.
 
sankaps
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RE: EK Pay Compensation For Non-A380 Service

Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:42 am

Quoting astuteman (Reply 19):
Therefore the product standard and aircraft type are interdependent. You can't separate them.

And attempting to do so is deliberately trying to avoid all of those characteristics that make the 380 the aircraft that it is.

The product is what the airline chooses to put into the tube. The A380's size allows airlines to put in a more spacious product and add'l bells and whistels for F and J, sure, in these early days as airlines are putting in lower density LOPAs. Same was true for 747s in the early days, until demand caught up. Sure, the lower CASK of the A380 allows the airlines to put in lower density seating until demand (or fuel prices) catch up. That is a benefit intrinsic to the A380.

However an airline can just as easily put in a less fancy, high-density product (as indeed EK is rumored to be doing for some A380s, when they were planning to deploy them on India routes before the Govt of Inda interfered). I can guarantee you that EK will not offer compensation if a pax is re-booked from a high-density A380 with "normal" F and J class to a regular 777. Therefore it is the product and the the aircraft per se that is driving this, the aircraft economics being an enabler in the near-term.
 
ozglobal
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RE: EK Pay Compensation For Non-A380 Service

Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:35 am

Quoting ChazPilot (Reply 10):
Quoting hhslax2 (Reply 8):
Perfectly understandable since SQ charges a surcharge for A380 routes.

I was going to say same thing - don't most A380 operators charge a surplus to fly this aircraft, knowing the interest from a sizeable number of passengers? I know that for a while, and maybe still, airlines would restrict the selection of A380 serviced routes for lower fare classes, RTW fares, etc.

Absolutely not. QF, e.g. has the same fare on A388 and 744, even with large differences in both F and J products.

The premium is charged by some airlines for a suite type F over a classical F product.
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
astuteman
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RE: EK Pay Compensation For Non-A380 Service

Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:38 am

Quoting sankaps (Reply 21):
The product is what the airline chooses to put into the tube

I certainly can't (and won't) argue with that. There are of course a lot of factors which influence what product the airline chooses to "put in the tube"

Quoting sankaps (Reply 21):
The A380's size allows airlines to put in a more spacious product and add'l bells and whistels for F and J,

But this is correct. But it's not just size.

Quoting sankaps (Reply 21):
Sure, the lower CASK of the A380 allows the airlines to put in lower density seating

It's this too. And I suspect that whether we like it or not, the airlines wishing to (and being able to) promote a "prestige" feeling around their "flagship" is also a factor

Quoting sankaps (Reply 21):
That is a benefit intrinsic to the A380

These are all benefits intrinsic to the A380. And that's my point.

Quoting sankaps (Reply 21):
However an airline can just as easily put in a less fancy, high-density product

And maybe one day they will.
But at the moment they don't.
No other commercial aircraft currently has the bars seating 30+ that the A380 has
No other commercial aircraft currently has the showers that the A380 has.
Some A380's have first class suites of a standard that no other aircraft has

We could pretend that this is coincidence. but it isn't is it?

So the premiums that are being compensated, and are the subject of this thread, are directly attributable to those benefits that are intrinsic to the A380

Rgds
 
malioil
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RE: EK Pay Compensation For Non-A380 Service

Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:41 am

Quoting sankaps (Reply 11):

I was recently looking at J fares to fly to HKG.

EK non A380 service = $2500
EK A380 service= $3300

So yes, they are charging extra for the J class available on their A380, and as such if paid $800 more for it I'd be ticked off for not getting the product I paid for.

While so many airlines these days get away with aircraft changes, not providing the original seat you paid for (like getting new international J seats with UA is a lottery, although they advertise the new ones, you may get the old ones), it is very good to know that EK are trying to stick to what they offer, and when that fails, are willing to compensate their passengers.
 
something
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RE: EK Pay Compensation For Non-A380 Service

Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:10 am

Quoting sankaps (Reply 11):
I don't think EK and SQ charge more for flying the A380 per se; it is just that they have installed a better product in the A380 (seats, suites, showers, bars/lounges, IFE, etc) and they charge more for that product. Therefore if that product is not delivered, pax (in F anf J class) deserve the surcharge back.

Same would be true if they installed the better product on a 777 or 747. I don't think the pax are saying "I didn't get the A380, I want some money back", they may instead be feeling "I didn't get the Suite / bar / lounge that was promised, I want some money back".

Shortly after SQ commenced A380 operations into ZRH, there was an interview with SQ's regional I don't know what. I can only pull up a German version of it, but I'm pretty sure there's an English one as well.

From the interview:

Quote:
Welche Reaktionen bekommen Sie von Ihren Kunden?
Interessant ist zum Beispiel, dass der Sitzladefaktor bei Flügen, die mit A380 durchgeführt werden, höher ist als bei anderen Typen. Die Passagiere wählen also ganz bewusst dieses Flugzeug, und kein anderes.
What's the customer's reaction to the A380?

It's interesting to note that flights operated by the A380 have a higher load factor than flights operated with other aircraft. Passengers conciously book flights on this aircraft, and not on another one.


http://www.derbund.ch/wirtschaft/unt...-nach-Zuerich/story/23954499?track

So unless they're having difficulties filling these birds up, which I am sure EK - the example at hand - doesn't, it would be bad business to not charge a premium for these flights following the most basic law of supply and demand. I myself have paid a premium to get on the A380 and I would do it again. The big, roomy cabin alone gives the impression of having more space to oneself; so even if the exact same seats were installed on another, smaller aircraft, I'd still prefer the A380.

Quoting ZKOKQ (Reply 15):
I was going to ask a question about this, glad this topic was created. I am flying EK SYD > DXB > FCO and am hoping not to miss out on the A380 considering I paid an extra $400 for the flight over the 77W.

Good luck mate.

Quoting astuteman (Reply 19):
And why we're so desperate to divorce the A380 itself from any positive perceptions when the quantity of documentation to the contrary is unavoidable.

It's of crucial importance to some to convince others, that their way of thinking [their perception] is the only right one to have. To quote the Mythbusters: ''I reject your reality, and substitute my own.''

[Edited 2012-03-23 02:12:26]
..sick of it. -K. Pilkington.
 
sankaps
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RE: EK Pay Compensation For Non-A380 Service

Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:32 am

Quoting something (Reply 25):

Shortly after SQ commenced A380 operations into ZRH, there was an interview with SQ's regional I don't know what. I can only pull up a German version of it, but I'm pretty sure there's an English one as well.

In the early days of a major new aircraft type, there is a lot of interest and curiosity (driven by a lot of media attention and marketing) that attracts higher volumes. This effect does not last long. It is a curiosity factor. Thereafter if A380 flights (with same product as other aircraft, like n SQ) have higher load factor, it is much more likely driven by the airline putting the larger aircraft on peak demand flights than by anything else.

Quoting something (Reply 25):
It's of crucial importance to some to convince others, that their way of thinking [their perception] is the only right one to have. To quote the Mythbusters: ''I reject your reality, and substitute my own.''

Once again, no one is out to put down the A380. I fly it often and like the aircraft a lot. If flying EK, I go out of the way to pick the A380 because the J class is so much better than the J class on EK's other aircraft. However if flying SQ I really don't care if it is an A380 or 77W as the J class product is pretty much the same for both. If EK moved me from an A380 to a 77W, I would be irritated and feel I have not gotten what I paid for. If SQ moves me from an A380 to a 77W, I will not care, it is the same product.

So once again the aircraft is an empty canvas, if an airline configures a certain type with a better product and charges a higher fare for it, then they better refund the difference if they change aircrat type! If the aircraft allows a larger canvasfor an airline to be more creative, great! The A380 clearly is allowing EK to do that. But it is an enabler, the customer is finally paying for the product that is put into it, not the aircraft.

I guarantee you if you interview pax coming off of an A380 and ask them why they chose the aircraft,the vast majority will tell you they did not even know what aircract it was when they made the booking; only pax paying for a certain enhanced product offering which is not on other aircraft will have picked the aircraft specifically.
 
CXB77L
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RE: EK Pay Compensation For Non-A380 Service

Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:13 pm

Quoting astuteman (Reply 19):
Therefore the product standard and aircraft type are interdependent.

To an extent, yes. But as you mentioned, EK could well have put bars and showers on other fleet types, but they simply chose not to. They chose to put these products on board their A380. If they had put the same product on other aircraft types, then the only difference would be the aircraft type. Passengers would still enjoy the comfort from the same on board product.

Quoting sankaps (Reply 26):
But it is an enabler, the customer is finally paying for the product that is put into it, not the aircraft.

  

The customers paid for the better product over and above the on board products found on other members of EK's fleet. Which is why EK will need to compensate the passengers in some way: the loss of an opportunity to enjoy better on board products which are exclusively fitted to a particular aircraft type (because the airline chose to market their product in such a manner). The passengers did not pay for the aircraft type.
Boeing 777 fanboy
 
Daysleeper
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RE: EK Pay Compensation For Non-A380 Service

Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:15 pm

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 27):
To an extent, yes. But as you mentioned, EK could well have put bars and showers on other fleet types, but they simply chose not to. They chose to put these products on board their A380. If they had put the same product on other aircraft types, then the only difference would be the aircraft type. Passengers would still enjoy the comfort from the same on board product.

If the product is superior and passengers are willing to pay a premium to experience it then why wouldn’t EK install it on all new aircraft? They are still taking delivery of new 77W’s so it shouldn’t be that complicated for them to install the same interior.
 
sq_ek_freak
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RE: EK Pay Compensation For Non-A380 Service

Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:20 pm

Quoting 9VSWR (Reply 9):
SQ never charged an A380 surcharge per se. There were only surcharges on bookings for the new Business and Suites Class products over the 'regular' Business and First Class products. Surcharges were not applicable for Economy Class bookings.

And this is reflected in their mileage redemptions for different seat types as well right? And if I'm not mistaken I believe you cannot use miles to upgrade or purchase into Suites (R) class right?

Quoting HOONS90 (Reply 14):
In Economy Class, both the EK 777 and A380 are in a 3-4-3 layout, even though the cabin of the 777 is narrower by 0.72m.

Playing devil's advocate here, you might end up with a 777 that has the older version of ICE, and not ICE Digital Widescreen, which is the newest version of the system that's featured on all A380s and a part of the 777 fleet  
Quoting EY460 (Reply 20):
- For Y passengers: narrower seats.

Think that might be stretching it a bit  
Quoting ozglobal (Reply 22):
Absolutely not. QF, e.g. has the same fare on A388 and 744, even with large differences in both F and J products.

I was going to say - flown QF F on both the 744 and 380 and the product on the latter was vastly superior.
Keep Discovering
 
astuteman
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RE: EK Pay Compensation For Non-A380 Service

Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:32 pm

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 27):
But as you mentioned, EK could well have put bars and showers on other fleet types, but they simply chose not to

No. They didn't "simply" choose not to.
There's nothing simple about it.
That has to be a complex trade-off, and one in which the characteristics of the aircraft play no small part.

Because if not, then you're suggesting that they think the A380 product is great, but couldn't bother their arses to put it on the 777.
I don't believe for one minute it's that simple.
I won't hold my breath for 777's (or A350's) with 30-seat bars, and showers installed.

Quoting Daysleeper (Reply 28):
If the product is superior and passengers are willing to pay a premium to experience it then why wouldn’t EK install it on all new aircraft? They are still taking delivery of new 77W’s so it shouldn’t be that complicated for them to install the same interior.

You would have thought not.

Rgds
 
CXB77L
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RE: EK Pay Compensation For Non-A380 Service

Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:53 pm

Quoting Daysleeper (Reply 28):
If the product is superior and passengers are willing to pay a premium to experience it then why wouldn’t EK install it on all new aircraft? They are still taking delivery of new 77W’s so it shouldn’t be that complicated for them to install the same interior.

The on board product is superior. Passengers are willing to pay a premium. That's why when EK couldn't deliver the product as promised, they had to compensate the customers. As for why that product isn't fitted to other types, that's something you'll have to ask EK. I agree it shouldn't be that complicated.

Quoting astuteman (Reply 30):
That has to be a complex trade-off, and one in which the characteristics of the aircraft play no small part.

Of course it's a trade-off. These amenities take space, and having these amenitites and larger seats in a smaller space would also mean fewer seats. That cannot be avoided. But it's nonetheless a trade-off that EK chose not to make. It is possible to fit showers, 30-seat bars, same J seats, and wider 9-across Y seats on the 77W. It just means there'll be fewer overall seats on board. EK chose not to make that trade off and instead gave the 77W a higher density configuration.
Boeing 777 fanboy
 
pnwtraveler
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RE: EK Pay Compensation For Non-A380 Service

Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:01 pm

The public's reaction to the cracks in the wings long term will be interesting. The catchet of flying the A380 will likely remain for the premium passengers due to the extra services debated above. If you can afford first class anyways, it is quite likely you can afford a bit extra for the amenities on an A380.

But for butts in the back of the bus who are less travel astute, they can be a bit more fickle and reactionary. It is likely they have ignored or maybe haven't even noticed the wing crack issues. However from a PR perspective, the downside of EK making more noise about the issue regarding compensation, can only reinforce the public perception that there is a problem with the plane, and at somepoint it might begin to stick.
 
babybus
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RE: EK Pay Compensation For Non-A380 Service

Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:05 pm

Quoting iainbhx (Reply 4):
During some A380 problems at the end of 2010, I received compensation from SQ for my A380 being changed to a 744-400. So EK aren't alone in having done that.

And so you should.

I will always pick an A380 for a long haul flight. If I was flying to LHR-SYD and found myself crammed into a lesser plane than the A380 I would be racking up a fuss. That aircraft is designed to provide a very comfortable cabin experience on long haul routes.

Its like going on a Mediterranrean cruise and expecting a cruise liner, but ending up on a cross channel ferry for the trip.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
planesavvy
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RE: EK Pay Compensation For Non-A380 Service

Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:11 pm

Having flown on Qantas's tatty old 747s before, I booked London to Brisbane all the way via Melbourne just to get on an A380. I was pretty upset when my flight was changed to a 747. It was full up and I ended up with an upgrade to C class, which was all the compenastion I needed!!!
 
Daysleeper
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RE: EK Pay Compensation For Non-A380 Service

Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:33 pm

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 31):
These amenities take space, and having these amenitites and larger seats in a smaller space would also mean fewer seats. That cannot be avoided. But it's nonetheless a trade-off that EK chose not to make.

Aren’t we missing the obvious here? If by installing the same class of product on the 77W they have to reduce the amount of seats then they are also going to see a reduction in revenue and profit. Perhaps they “chose” not to install the same interior on the 77W because it’s too small to operate profitably with the same standard of product as the A380.

If this is indeed the case, then the notion that the aircraft type has no effect on passenger experience is questionable. As if an aircraft as large, and as efficient as the A380 is required for the interior to be installed and operated profitably then surely the passenger experience this interior allows is dependent on the aircraft type.
 
brilondon
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RE: EK Pay Compensation For Non-A380 Service

Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:34 pm

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 13):
Is it really the A380 they're compensating for, or is it really that EK's product aboard the A380 is better than on any other aircraft in their fleet? If I booked a 777 flight with EK and an A380 turned up at the gate, can I ask for compensation?

To the best of my knowledge, no airline would guarantee that aircraft subsitution would not occur. It's a fact of life that some aircraft will, for one reason or another, and at one time or another, need to be substituted by another. To pay compensation every time there's a substitution would open the floodgates.

I am going to say that if there is going to be compensation for changing aircraft, then it does not matter what type of aircraft it is but that people want to be given something no matter what. If they changed out a B777 for an A380 would there be compensation or would you be required at check in to pay a premium. My guess would be that some people would want to be compensated fro the change.
Rush forever Closer To My Heart
 
abba
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RE: EK Pay Compensation For Non-A380 Service

Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:40 pm

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 13):
Is it really the A380 they're compensating for,



If I get on one of their 777s instead of the A380 I am booked on, I will ask for a HUGE compensation.
 
gothamspotter
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RE: EK Pay Compensation For Non-A380 Service

Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:40 pm

Delta gave me a $100 credit when an Air France A380 went tech. Rather than flying Delta nonstop, I paid more to return from Berlin to JFK via Paris specifically so I could fly the A380. They subbed with both a 77W (which I ended up on) and an A332.

[Edited 2012-03-23 08:41:07]
 
Rara
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RE: EK Pay Compensation For Non-A380 Service

Fri Mar 23, 2012 5:27 pm

The A380 continues to amaze. You'd think the effect would wear off sometimes, but a good friend of mine who is A380 cpt confirmes that wherever they fly, it's always a huge event. People take pictures, talk about the plane, have him sign their boarding pass, stay at the gate after deboarding to get a last look at it, and so on. All that years after entry into service. I would have never expected that. Apparently the crew is quite surprised at this lasting wow-effect as well.

Then again, I'm still to fly on one, and I'll be just the same.  
Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.
 
iainbhx
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RE: EK Pay Compensation For Non-A380 Service

Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:05 pm

Quoting sq_ek_freak (Reply 29):
And this is reflected in their mileage redemptions for different seat types as well right? And if I'm not mistaken I believe you cannot use miles to upgrade or purchase into Suites (R) class right?

You can if you are a KrisFlyer member, the rates are said to be utterly ridiculous. I believe something like 600,000 for an upgrade LHR-SIN and 1 million for an award.

My downgrade was from Suites to First on SIN-MEL, the compensation was quite generous.
iainbhx
 
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KPDX
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RE: EK Pay Compensation For Non-A380 Service

Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:48 pm

Quoting Rara (Reply 39):

It's not rocket science.. The aircraft is huuuuuuge. You get the same exact effect for the AN-225.. yet, I doubt it's that comfortable.   
 
Prinair
Posts: 638
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 1999 7:28 am

RE: EK Pay Compensation For Non-A380 Service

Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:32 pm

I find it hilarious that some airlines might charge extra for passengers to fly on a flawed aircraft. Try as much as you want to downplay the current wing crack issue with the A380, it is still a flaw.

Airbus might claim it does not have an effect on safety but how many times have we heard a similar story before...
PRINAIR - Puerto Rico International Airlines
 
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Aquila3
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RE: EK Pay Compensation For Non-A380 Service

Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:16 pm

The wow effect with the A380 will not fade soon, I am sorry to say to say ...
It will last until someone else (possibly B) will make a bigger and better aircraft.
But looking at that (...) 748, there is no hurry to be concern for A.
chi vola vale chi vale vola chi non vola è un vile
 
CXB77L
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RE: EK Pay Compensation For Non-A380 Service

Sat Mar 24, 2012 3:19 am

Quoting Daysleeper (Reply 35):
If this is indeed the case, then the notion that the aircraft type has no effect on passenger experience is questionable.

The on board product is what gives the passengers the 'experience', more so than the aircraft type itself. EK chose not to install the same set-up on other aircraft types in its fleet, which is entirely within their prerogative. But clearly, having a lower density configuration and the same amenities as on the A380 isn't impossible on other fleet types, even if it does come with the cost associated with a lower seat count.

Nevertheless, I'm not disputing that EK should pay comensation here. The passengers paid for the on board products offered by EK exclusively on the A380, such as the F-class showers, and the 30-seat bars, etc. But to me, it is the notion that it's the aircraft type, rather than the on board product that they're compensating for that is questionable, not the other way around. If it were the aircraft type that they are compensating for, then any substitution could potentially open the door for people to argue that the aircraft which operated the route is not the same type as the one that was advertised. If I booked on a 777 flight, and an A380 turned up at the gate, I could ask EK for compensation because the aircraft wasn't the type I booked to fly on. If that sounds silly, it's because it is.

EK, like almost every airline, doesn't guarantee that the aircraft type advertised will be the one operating the route. It does not guarantee that there won't be aircraft substitutions. That points more towards the fact that they're compensating for the passenger's loss of opportunity to experience their newest and greatest on board product, rather than the aircraft type itself.

[Edited 2012-03-23 20:23:55]
Boeing 777 fanboy
 
Quokkas
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RE: EK Pay Compensation For Non-A380 Service

Sat Mar 24, 2012 3:34 am

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 44):

  
Yes, the compensation is for loss of amenity - i.e. no shower, no bar and possibly in some instances no private suites.

While an A.netter might complain that they wanted a 773 I doubt that EK would ever compensate them if a A380 was substituted simply because a better product is being offered.  
“Not to laugh, not to cry, not to hate, but understand.” Spinoza
 
Daysleeper
Posts: 565
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 3:33 pm

RE: EK Pay Compensation For Non-A380 Service

Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:00 am

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 44):
The on board product is what gives the passengers the 'experience', more so than the aircraft type itself. EK chose not to install the same set-up on other aircraft types in its fleet, which is entirely within their prerogative. But clearly, having a lower density configuration and the same amenities as on the A380 isn't impossible on other fleet types, even if it does come with the cost associated with a lower seat count

I agree, it is the installed product which they are compensating for – A product which is unique to the A380.
This also adds another dimension to the anet theory that passengers don’t notice the aircraft type. Clearly, if the type dictates the quality of the interior as it does here then not only do they notice, they want compensating for the change.

Quoting PRINAIR (Reply 42):
I find it hilarious that some airlines might charge extra for passengers to fly on a flawed aircraft. Try as much as you want to downplay the current wing crack issue with the A380, it is still a flaw.

I'd love to see you list "perfect" aircraft.
 
CXB77L
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RE: EK Pay Compensation For Non-A380 Service

Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:08 am

Quoting Daysleeper (Reply 46):
This also adds another dimension to the anet theory that passengers don’t notice the aircraft type. Clearly, if the type dictates the quality of the interior

The aircraft type does not dictate the interior. The airline does.

Let me put this another way: if I booked to fly in an EK F suite on the 77W, and a 77W with the old configuration 2x2x2 open lie-flat F was used for the route instead, I would be asking for compensation because the product I paid for didn't eventuate, even though the aircraft type is exactly the same.

[Edited 2012-03-24 03:09:26]
Boeing 777 fanboy
 
Daysleeper
Posts: 565
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 3:33 pm

RE: EK Pay Compensation For Non-A380 Service

Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:39 am

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 47):
The aircraft type does not dictate the interior. The airline does.

Yes, and they obviously base this decision on the type of aircraft….

If not, then explain why they wouldn’t install an interior that passengers are willing to pay a premium for fleet wide? As I said further up the thread, they are still receiving new 77W’s so it wouldn’t be that difficult.
 
Quokkas
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Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:51 pm

RE: EK Pay Compensation For Non-A380 Service

Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:48 am

An obvious point to remember is the different capacity of the aircraft types.

The A380 offers 14 suites in F, 76 lie-flat seats in J and 399 - 427 seats in Y.
With the 777s offer at best 12 seats or 8 suites in F, 42 angled lie-flat in J and up to 310 seats in Y.
In terms of the number of suites the nearest to the A380 is the A345, it too has 42 seats in J but only has 204 seats in Y.

Depending on seats sold in each class you could have a lot of passengers not going anywhere or having to change their itinerary. They would also be demanding compensation, I suspect.

Quoting Daysleeper (Reply 48):
If not, then explain why they wouldn’t install an interior that passengers are willing to pay a premium for fleet wide?

It would come down to the maths of whether you could expect to make more by selling a few more premiums seats or by selling a much larger number of Y seats. While a change in the cabin layout of a 777 is possible, the A380 still offers a space advantage simply because it has two passenger decks to play around with.
“Not to laugh, not to cry, not to hate, but understand.” Spinoza

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