tayser
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Qantas And China Eastern To Launch Jetstar HK

Sun Mar 25, 2012 9:37 pm

http://www.theage.com.au/business/qa...budget-carrier-20120326-1vt3e.html

Quote:
Qantas to launch Asian budget carrier
Matt O'Sullivan
March 26, 2012 - 8:26AM

Qantas is set to unveil a joint venture with China Eastern today which will create a new budget airline to be called Jetstar Hong Kong.
In a significant breakthrough into the northern Asian region, Qantas is expected to announce the Hong Kong joint venture with the Shanghai-based airline this morning at a press conference scheduled for 9.30am, AEDT. The new airline will use short-haul Airbus A320 aircraft, serving routes in Asia including China.
It will be modelled on Jetstar's other joint ventures in Asia. Last year Jetstar formed a joint venture with Japan Airlines to create Jetstar Japan, which will begin services later this year on domestic routes in the country.

Wonder how CX will react.
 
C010T3
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RE: Qantas And China Eastern To Launch Jetstar HK

Sun Mar 25, 2012 9:53 pm

When you think that alliance relations would get simpler in time in China, they get even more complicated.
 
Sydscott
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RE: Qantas And China Eastern To Launch Jetstar HK

Sun Mar 25, 2012 9:57 pm

Quoting tayser (Thread starter):
Wonder how CX will react.

I think the reaction will be predictable although CX has said they're not interested in a budget carrier of their own.
 
lhr380
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RE: Qantas And China Eastern To Launch Jetstar HK

Sun Mar 25, 2012 9:59 pm

What impact would it have on CX? They have no single aisle aircraft in their fleet. Would JQ HK cause much impact on CX flights?
(The views on this site are my own and no one elses)
 
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EK413
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RE: Qantas And China Eastern To Launch Jetstar HK

Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:00 pm

Quoting lhr380 (Reply 3):

Isn't Dragon Air a low cost operation of CX...? Correct me if I am wrong...

EK413
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Sydscott
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RE: Qantas And China Eastern To Launch Jetstar HK

Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:24 pm

Quoting EK413 (Reply 4):
Isn't Dragon Air a low cost operation of CX...? Correct me if I am wrong...

Dragon is more their Chinese regional carrier than an LCC carrier with a business and economy class. I doubt you'll see a Dragon metamorphis into an LCC as there is arguably room for both in the Hong Kong - China market. Again this move really does put on display the commercial rivalry that exists between Cathay and the Qantas group.
 
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RyanairGuru
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RE: Qantas And China Eastern To Launch Jetstar HK

Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:28 pm

Quoting EK413 (Reply 4):
Isn't Dragon Air a low cost operation of CX...?

lower cost. They're not an LCC, but do have a lower cost base than their parent. Dragonair/Cathay is very similar to Silk/Singapore.

Quoting lhr380 (Reply 3):
What impact would it have on CX? They have no single aisle aircraft in their fleet.

Dragonair is basically their short-haul network. The easiest analogy is that whereas other airlines have both a short-haul and long-haul fleet, with CX (and SQ) the two halves have separate brands.

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 1):
When you think that alliance relations would get simpler in time in China, they get even more complicated.

  

Given that there is also speculation about a deeper QF/MU partnership on Australia-China flights, it's increasingly looking like QF have forgotten which alliance they're in (at least to East Asia)
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CX Flyboy
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RE: Qantas And China Eastern To Launch Jetstar HK

Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:39 pm

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 6):
Quoting EK413 (Reply 4):
Isn't Dragon Air a low cost operation of CX...?

lower cost. They're not an LCC, but do have a lower cost base than their parent. Dragonair/Cathay is very similar to Silk/Singapore.

Actually Dragonair's cost base isn't much lower than Cathays at all!
Cathay's arguement for not going down the low-cost route is that we already have fairly low costs for operating out of an expensive Asian airport, and some of our ticket prices are close to low cost prices. Yes I know...I smell it too...but thats what they say.
 
jfk777
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RE: Qantas And China Eastern To Launch Jetstar HK

Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:29 am

Quoting EK413 (Reply 4):
Isn't Dragon Air a low cost operation of CX...? Correct me if I am wrong...
Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 6):
lower cost. They're not an LCC, but do have a lower cost base than their parent. Dragonair/Cathay is very similar to Silk/Singapore.

Dragon Air has always been Cathay's vechicle for flights to Peking and Shanghai, it also was a way for have mainland shareholders in its HKG to PRC flights. Swire has had to reduce its CX stockholding to make room for PRC shareholders. Dragon Air has mostly two class service on its A330's but does have some A330 with First Class.
 
ChazPilot
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RE: Qantas And China Eastern To Launch Jetstar HK

Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:40 am

Quoting EK413 (Reply 4):

You stand corrected!  
 
PVG
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RE: Qantas And China Eastern To Launch Jetstar HK

Mon Mar 26, 2012 2:15 am

CX already faces low cost competition into China; the Chinese airlines. They seem to be holding just fine. Why MU feels that they more competition is beyond me?
 
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EK413
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RE: Qantas And China Eastern To Launch Jetstar HK

Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:03 am

Cheers for clearing it up that's why I wasn't 100% certain...

This certainly shows the relationship between QF/CX... I still can't understand why the tension between the 2...

EK413
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NZ107
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RE: Qantas And China Eastern To Launch Jetstar HK

Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:24 am

Wow, such a long way from their full service airline plans..

CX has excellent connections to everywhere else in the world and sometimes it's even cheaper to fly to other destinations within China/SE Asia than HKG (from what I've seen anyway).
It's all about the destination AND the journey.
 
qf002
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RE: Qantas And China Eastern To Launch Jetstar HK

Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:27 am

 Wow! I wasn't expecting this...

Well there goes any chance at all of QF and CX getting closer, though CX will probably see little impact on their own business...
 
cchan
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RE: Qantas And China Eastern To Launch Jetstar HK

Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:53 am

IMHO, the airline most affected would be HX/UO.

CX/KA tend to get customers from an entirely different market.
 
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zeke
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RE: Qantas And China Eastern To Launch Jetstar HK

Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:55 am

Quoting tayser (Thread starter):
Wonder how CX will react.

I think the better question is "How will Hong Kong Airlines" react...they have pulled out of, and reduced frequencies on various routes out of Hong Kong.

The footprint that Jetstar in Australia, Hong Kong, Japan, New Zealand, Singapore, and Vietnam will have using A320/A320NEOs is rather extensive, I do not necessarily see them going head to head with larger carriers with wide bodies, I think they are looking at growing regional routes.
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madog
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RE: Qantas And China Eastern To Launch Jetstar HK

Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:12 am

this morning i woke up to a bit of a surprise. first it was japan, and now china. it seems that AJ doesnt know what his airline really needs.

how low can fares really go? i really find it hard to believe fares will be 50% cheaper than what we have on offer now. low cost carrrier's advertised airfares are misleading most of the times. add fuel surcharges, lugggage allowance, etc. by the time the total is calculated the cost would have been very close to what the big boys have on offer. this has been the personal experience from compariing D7, JQ, and the likes of CX, QF, SQ, MH, VS.
 
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zkojq
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RE: Qantas And China Eastern To Launch Jetstar HK

Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:20 am

Qantas' Asia strategy: when in doubt, launch another Jetstar operation. Last year they announced Jetstar Japan, this year it is Jetstar Hong Kong. Next year Jetstar Korea, maybe?  

It will be interesting to see how this worksout.
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mdavies06
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RE: Qantas And China Eastern To Launch Jetstar HK

Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:52 am

Wow. This is unexpected given all the talks of a premium airlines, but i guess its only a matter of time before QF decide to launch Jetstar in HKG. To start with, there is currently no LCC based in HK, making HK the only major market in Far East (except Taiwan I guess) where there is no LCC in the home market. Secondly, because CX has a relatively conservative approach to routes including regional routes (under the KA brand) I think it is inevitable that another carrier comes in to create competition in the regional markets. Obviously as many has cited HX/UO are the most impacted as they discount their economic class fares more than CX/KA, but CX/KA will also feel the impact too if the new airline manage to establish itself in terms of market share and market recognition. If one looks at SQ for example, the LCC airlines based in SIN has become so big nowadays it has forced SQ to reduce flying to quite a few primary and secondary markets regionally under SQ metal. My feeling is that the new venture can do pretty well and I hope it works out well for them.

I am just curious whether QF held any talks about this new airline with CX. I'd imagine that QF approached CX previously and they never came to an agreement, hence MU coming in as joint investor. IMO CX should have agreed with QF on this new airline and now they have let MU gain a foothold in the HKG market.

[Edited 2012-03-25 21:53:48]
 
vaus77w
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RE: Qantas And China Eastern To Launch Jetstar HK

Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:56 am

I heard this on the radio this morning- laughed when they said they'll be using A380's.

Do you think we could see Jetstar flights between Aust and HK? Maybe they'll base some A330's or 787's at HK.
 
aerohottie
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RE: Qantas And China Eastern To Launch Jetstar HK

Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:09 am

This seems to make perfect sense considering QF Groups asia strategy, and the frosty relationship between QF and CX (i.e. CX do not cooperate with QF).
If you draw a map with the hub locations of the Jetstar francises, it paints a very clear picture of what the strategy is.


For an easier view of the coverage area, there isn't much of eastern asia that isn't covered.


So what's next??? Jetstar India??? Would appear to make sense from a geographical coverage perspective, and could provide connecting traffic to and from QF routes direct to india.


And then what??? expansion in the pacific with New Zealand, or an agreement with the Fiji Government to transform Air Pacific into a Jetstar brand like Virgin Australia in Samoa???


Interesting times... and an interesting strategy...
What?
 
ZuluAlpha
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RE: Qantas And China Eastern To Launch Jetstar HK

Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:12 am

I would be curious to see what routes they will do ex HKG. Obviously they will be timed for the QF flights arriving out of and into HKG.

After reading the article on the jetstar website, hopefully by the 2014 mark, there will be increased services to / from Australia into HKG (Daily BNE / PER)
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mariner
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RE: Qantas And China Eastern To Launch Jetstar HK

Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:17 am

Quoting aerohottie (Reply 20):
This seems to make perfect sense considering QF Groups asia strategy, and the frosty relationship between QF and CX (i.e. CX do not cooperate with QF).

I agree. I like your idea of involving Fiji, too.

I'm not sure where the premium carrier fits in (Red Q? I'm not wild about the name), but I'm patient, I'm content to wait and see what turns up.

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Sydscott
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RE: Qantas And China Eastern To Launch Jetstar HK

Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:17 am

Quoting mdavies06 (Reply 18):
I am just curious whether QF held any talks about this new airline with CX. I'd imagine that QF approached CX previously and they never came to an agreement, hence MU coming in as joint investor. IMO CX should have agreed with QF on this new airline and now they have let MU gain a foothold in the HKG market.

All agreed. A joint holding of JQ Hong Kong between QF and CX could have really built some bridges between the two. The fact it's between MU and QF says alot about the apparent rivalry between CX and QF.

Quoting vaus77w (Reply 19):
Do you think we could see Jetstar flights between Aust and HK?

In short, yes. You could start with AKL-HKG, CNS-HKG, DRW-HKG and no doubt a combination of MEL/PER/ADL/BNE - HKG. Certainly CNS and DRW - HKG would be within A320neo range, I'm not sure of the rest.
 
lhr380
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RE: Qantas And China Eastern To Launch Jetstar HK

Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:31 am

You know, I had forgotten about Dragonair....

Interesting news this, looking forward to hearing a bit more about it.
(The views on this site are my own and no one elses)
 
flythere
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RE: Qantas And China Eastern To Launch Jetstar HK

Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:33 am

Quoting EK413 (Reply 4):
Isn't Dragon Air a low cost operation of CX...? Correct me if I am wrong...

EK413
Quoting ChazPilot (Reply 9):
You stand corrected!

No No No. Dragonair (KA) is a wholly-owned subsidiary of CX that runs regional routes on a premium level.
It is never a LCC and never will be. Regional =/= LCC

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 5):

Dragon is more their Chinese regional carrier than an LCC carrier with a business and economy class. I doubt you'll see a Dragon metamorphis into an LCC as there is arguably room for both in the Hong Kong - China market. Again this move really does put on display the commercial rivalry that exists between Cathay and the Qantas group.

Yea, that's to our surprise here as well, a special tie between QF and MU.

Quoting zeke (Reply 15):
The footprint that Jetstar in Australia, Hong Kong, Japan, New Zealand, Singapore, and Vietnam will have using A320/A320NEOs is rather extensive, I do not necessarily see them going head to head with larger carriers with wide bodies, I think they are looking at growing regional routes.

I would imagine Jetstar would form a comprehensive intra-asia network for which it rivals with Air Asia and other LCCs in the region. HKG and TPE(if happen) could be turned into hubs for Jetstar traffic between north asia and south asia and even australia

Quoting mdavies06 (Reply 18):

I am just curious whether QF held any talks about this new airline with CX. I'd imagine that QF approached CX previously and they never came to an agreement, hence MU coming in as joint investor. IMO CX should have agreed with QF on this new airline and now they have let MU gain a foothold in the HKG market.

Indeed HKG slots are better utilized by premium carriers for the slots come with higher operational fix costs.
Do you see LCC operating to Heathrow? HKG is going in that direction indeed, just the time is delayed for a while for the soon-constructed 3rd runway and new passenger terminals.
Nevertheless, IRR of LCC is so low that it doesnt justify from the point of economic sense. CX would rather put their capitals and earnings on upgrading premium fronts (i.e. new J/W/Y seats and soon new F seat, bringing in new planes, upgrade lounges/services) for that is where the real money is.

[Edited 2012-03-25 22:37:39]
 
TN486
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RE: Qantas And China Eastern To Launch Jetstar HK

Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:38 am

and this, I thiink, says it all. http://www.theage.com.au/business/ne...0326-1vtnk.html?rand=1332736574843
The QANTAS group as a whole will benefit. Those who say QF's future will be A380 to London and the US, (in the main) with JV's to other EU ports and JQ (in all its forms) straddling all of ASIA are bang on the money IMHO.
remember the t shirt "I own an airline"on the front - "qantas" on the back
 
aerohottie
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RE: Qantas And China Eastern To Launch Jetstar HK

Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:08 am

Quoting TN486 (Reply 26):
The QANTAS group as a whole will benefit. Those who say QF's future will be A380 to London and the US, (in the main) with JV's to other EU ports and JQ (in all its forms) straddling all of ASIA are bang on the money IMHO.

I agree.
I wouldn't be surprised to see QF jump into bed with Qatar, and use them to funnel traffic through Doha and on to many European ports, and reduce the significance of the alliance with BA, to concentrate the focus of that alliance for AU/UK traffic only.
The strategy could be something like...

Australia to-
Asia (QF's own metal then JQ)
Middle East/Eurpoe (QF and partner metal - QR???, then on to multiple European points)
London/UK (QF and BA metal to LHR, then BA)
North America (QF metal to LAX/DFW then AA)
South America (QF and LA metal to SCL then LA)
Intra-Asia (JQ subsidiaries)

Pretty much covers the globe, and largely with QF metal feeding into major ports, and then onto partners and subsidiaries...
I like it...
What?
 
qf340500
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RE: Qantas And China Eastern To Launch Jetstar HK

Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:25 am

sounds like a good strategy... maybe it will pay off at the end and all the nay-sayers are staring in disbelieve catching flies with their open mouth...

Go Qantas and go Jetstar!

[Edited 2012-03-25 23:25:41]
 
docpepz
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RE: Qantas And China Eastern To Launch Jetstar HK

Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:11 am

Quoting ZuluAlpha (Reply 21):

I would be curious to see what routes they will do ex HKG. Obviously they will be timed for the QF flights arriving out of and into HKG.

The QF flights arriving into and out of SIN (mostly after 9pm) are too late for Jetstar Asia connections. Even the JQ flight MEL-SIN-PEK has a 11 hour wait time in SIN for the SIN-PEK leg. I think QF intends for the Jetstar franchises in Asia to be standalone rather than rely on any QF mainline feed.
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: Qantas And China Eastern To Launch Jetstar HK

Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:13 am

Once QF stated that they had shelved their Asian carrier plan, I had a feeling that they had something else up their sleeve. Extremely good move.

I would not be surprised to see this carrier gain some A330s at some point and start flights into Australia and maybe onto broader pastures. Having SIN, NRT and HKG gives it a very broad coverage zone, with an opportunity to exploit some options that it currently cannot maximise. I do wonder if this will change the focus of SIN at all, given the current expansion of services into North Asia.

One of the most interesting aspects of CX is that it is 17.5% owned by Air China, a Star Alliance member. Does this play a part in CX's thinking at times? No idea, but the relations that CX has with a few of the OW carriers makes you wonder what the true cause of the friction is.
 
zkeoj
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RE: Qantas And China Eastern To Launch Jetstar HK

Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:32 am

Quoting aerohottie (Reply 20):
And then what??? expansion in the pacific with New Zealand,

JQ is already operating New Zealand domestic flights, trans-Tasman, and AKL-SIN. It would be fairly easy for them to epand this network to the South Pacific and possibly to their new Asia hubs in NRT and HKG (operationally - I don't know if the market is there)...

Cheers
micha
 
cam747
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RE: Qantas And China Eastern To Launch Jetstar HK

Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:52 am

I actually think this is a great move. Makes much more sense to me than redQ or whatever the plan was.

Maybe Alan Joyce has more plans for Qantas than we realise- I wonder how those vocal a.nutters who call for his sacking every second post are feeling about this announcement.
 
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mariner
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RE: Qantas And China Eastern To Launch Jetstar HK

Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:59 am

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 30):
Once QF stated that they had shelved their Asian carrier plan, I had a feeling that they had something else up their sleeve. Extremely good move.

Has Qantas said they have shelved Red Q? I must have missed it.

mariner
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EK413
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RE: Qantas And China Eastern To Launch Jetstar HK

Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:23 am

Quoting EK413 (Reply 11):
Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 30):

You may have just answered my question!

Quoting mariner (Reply 22):

I believe this is possible considering QF hold a 25% stake in the national carrier, not a controlling stake but certainly have there foot in the door...

EK413
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mariner
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RE: Qantas And China Eastern To Launch Jetstar HK

Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:14 am

Quoting EK413 (Reply 34):
I believe this is possible considering QF hold a 25% stake in the national carrier, not a controlling stake but certainly have there foot in the door...



As of July last year, Qantas held 46% of Air Pacific, which - it is said - they have been trying to sell back to the Fijian government.

I have always hoped Qantas would do a similar deal to Polynesian Blue/Virgin Samoa. The old Polynesian Airlines was restructured as Polynesian Blue with the Samoan government holding 49%, Aggie Grey Hotels holding 2% equalling 51%, thus majority Samoan ownership.

Virgin Blue held the remaining 49% but also assumed all management, provision of aircraft, crews, etc (with provision for the employment of Samoan nationals), and also decided the routes and schedules the airline would fly. There is one aircraft assigned full time and it will have (has?) Virgin Samoa livery. It is a Samoan airline integrated into Virgin Australia group. Pix here:

http://www.ausbt.com.au/virgin-austr...esian-blue-s-new-name-virgin-samoa

The model has been extremely successful and I wish it could be adopted for all the small island nations, including Nauru and Tahiti, maybe Vanuatu and the Solomons.

mariner

[Edited 2012-03-26 03:21:18]
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cx777fan
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RE: Qantas And China Eastern To Launch Jetstar HK

Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:00 am

Quoting cam747 (Reply 32):
Maybe Alan Joyce has more plans for Qantas than we realise

Don't know if AJ has many growth plans for Qantas (the airline), but he clearly has ambitious growth plans for Qantas (the group) by means of orange stars multiplying throughout Asia. It is an understandable and predictable business move - get a foot in the door on the continent that is already the most economically dominant on the planet and set to be the focus of 21st century power. The millions of newly minted middle class folk would for the most part hold few idealistic notions about the romance of flight on legacy carriers like QF. They are just delighted to be able to spend some of their disposable income flying domestically or regionally on VFR trips or holidays. I've seen plenty of business folk on LCC flights in Asia too.

HOWEVER, surely that growth in Asia could be achieved without chopping his nose off to spite his face in terms of the amount of bad blood generated among his staff at QF and by making Qantas such an unattractive option for folk (like me) who want to fly ex-Australia all the way to my destination on a full service airline and preferably not on a codeshare - especially if one leg ended up being on JQ. As a hypothetical example If I want to go to just about anywhere in Europe on a Oneworld carrier, I'm going to pick CX or JL and not even consider QF due to their LHR centricity (and even that's being slashed). Any future plans to connect pax on to JQ 787 services to Europe ex SIN will do nothing to endear me to QF group either. QF int'l is in a real catch 22. They reckon loads and yields are down so they have to cut flights; people don't want to fly them because they don't fly to places they want to go, when they want to go there....

I'd say Joyce's JQ focus has a good chance of being profitable, but at what cost to the Flying Kangaroo?
 
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EK413
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RE: Qantas And China Eastern To Launch Jetstar HK

Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:25 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 35):

Cheers, I was under the impression QF stake was only 25% but you've shed light on it... With a 49% stake is this enough to restructure FJ...?

EK413
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wowpeter
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RE: Qantas And China Eastern To Launch Jetstar HK

Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:31 am

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 30):
One of the most interesting aspects of CX is that it is 17.5% owned by Air China, a Star Alliance member. Does this play a part in CX's thinking at times? No idea, but the relations that CX has with a few of the OW carriers makes you wonder what the true cause of the friction is.

Everyone always forgot, CX also own 18.77% of Air China... it is a strategic cross share holdings... so of course they are going to do something that benefit each other...

I have a feeling that the reason why MU decided to goes to bed with QF on this Jetstar Hong Kong join venture, was the fact that Air China and CX are working together on Air China Cargo (51% own by AIr China, 49% own by CX) based in shanghai to squeeze MU out of the cargo market in shanghai... So this is more retaliation to set up something in Hong Kong, as MU already have operations in Beijing, it makes sense for them to step into the Hong Kong market as well, to cause some disruption to CX...

Finally, QF never like CX and vice versa... so I think QF is hoping that they can play the same card that they have play in Singapore and thus partially kills CX profits like what they have done to SQ profits at the moment... so I am sure QF is planning to emulate the same thing... however, there are a few factors that may or may not work in favor to QF in this particular case... aviation in Hong Kong and China (since they want to fly to China), are rather political, with many of the top dog of Air China on the CX board and have a vested interests in CX, all the while with Air China has a higher share of political influence in CAAC then both China Eastern and China Southern combine (the current CAAC Minister is the ex-Chairman of Air China and the ex-vice chairman in Cathay Pacific), so I highly doubted CAAC will let Jetstar Hong Kong and QF do the same thing to kill CX like what they have done to SQ... Even though we don't like to think CX enjoy much political protection, but we all know that on certain level, CX are pretty connected politically within Hong Kong and China through it strategic shareholdings. So it will be interesting to see what will happen, but I have a feeling that Jetstar Hong Kong will run into a lot of stumbling block before they will get it off the ground (political stumbling block). Plus, I am sure HNA / HK Airlines will wrist their political muscle in China as well. Interesting times ahead for sure!
 
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allrite
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RE: Qantas And China Eastern To Launch Jetstar HK

Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:37 am

Quoting aerohottie (Reply 20):
If you draw a map with the hub locations of the Jetstar francises, it paints a very clear picture of what the strategy is.

You are missing Jetstar Pacific in Vietnam. I've read elsewhere that Vietnam is building a new airport at SGN to better compete in the hub market.

Quoting Docpepz (Reply 29):
I think QF intends for the Jetstar franchises in Asia to be standalone rather than rely on any QF mainline feed.

I suspect they hope that Jetstar will supplement QF, but mainly for leisure travellers who may stopover rather than business travellers on a tight schedule.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 37):
With a 49% stake is this enough to restructure FJ...?

I doubt that FJ are free of political interference, whatever the financial breakdown.
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koruman
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RE: Qantas And China Eastern To Launch Jetstar HK

Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:45 am

I love the picture of the circles showing Jetstar's Asian dominance. Footprint even.

Jetstar Pacific is a basketcase and has been converted into a de facto division of Vietnam Airlines.

Jetstar Asia is just about solvent.

Jetstar Hong Kong will have three aircraft and maximum capital of $99 million over three years.

This start-up does not even represent a toe in the water. It's a miniscule start-up as part of a brand which hasn't got significant market share anywhere outside Australia.
 
delta2ual
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RE: Qantas And China Eastern To Launch Jetstar HK

Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:03 pm

This exemplifies the purpose of airlines: to not only survive, but grow and make money. More and more airlines are going outside their alliances to partner with airlines that are either unaligned or with other alliances. Good for them! I think we will see more of this going forward. Alliances are fine, but if it keeps an airline from benefitting from a better or more strategic partnership, then airlines should reexamine their goals.
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AA777223
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RE: Qantas And China Eastern To Launch Jetstar HK

Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:56 pm

Quoting aerohottie (Reply 20):
(i.e. CX do not cooperate with QF)

Are you certain about this??? They're both in OneWorld!
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aerohottie
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RE: Qantas And China Eastern To Launch Jetstar HK

Mon Mar 26, 2012 2:21 pm

Quoting AA777223 (Reply 42):
Quoting aerohottie (Reply 20):
(i.e. CX do not cooperate with QF)

Are you certain about this??? They're both in OneWorld!

Yip, pretty certain... Neither carrier keeps it much of a secret that the relationship is frosty.
There is a lot of history behind why... but at this point in time CX has no reason to be close to QF. QF don't have anything to offer them, but CX have a lot to offer QF. And with CX not willing to give something to QF without QF giving anything back in return, QF have had no choice but to partner with another carrier to gain access to the HK-China market... smart move in my honest opinion
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qf002
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RE: Qantas And China Eastern To Launch Jetstar HK

Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:02 pm

Quoting AA777223 (Reply 42):
Are you certain about this??? They're both in OneWorld!

The only thing the two airlines cooperate on outside of stuff relating to all the airlines in Oneworld is a codeshare agreement to FCO. That's it.

It's pretty clear why -- CX is a big Asian airline, and wants to grow like a big Asian airline. One of the most lucrative regions for them to grow into is Australia, to the extent that they are now pretty much second to SQ as the largest foreign carrier in Australia (in terms of seats offered, I think NZ is the largest by number of flights). They have added masses of capacity, most of it at QF's detriment, over the past decade. They've stepped on QF's toes by flying to cities like CNS and ADL which are generally serviced by OW partners via a QF domestic codeshare.

Of course, QF has done equally worse. They opened up HKG-LHR in competition with CX (we all know how well that turned out), and are now moving into HKG with JQ. They've also been far from exclusive with passing traffic onto CX's regional flights -- try booking a flight from Australia to China (outside SYD-PVG) and QF's website will give you an array of connecting flights, including all the major Chinese airlines alongside CX or KA...

So really it's no surprise that there is little cooperation. But then, CX doesn't cooperate with anybody in OW. BA, AA, JL must all be pretty frustrated at times, but such a big Asian airline is too valuable for the alliance for anyone to suggest booting CX out.
 
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zeke
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RE: Qantas And China Eastern To Launch Jetstar HK

Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:13 pm

Quoting qf002 (Reply 44):
The only thing the two airlines cooperate on outside of stuff relating to all the airlines in Oneworld is a codeshare agreement to FCO. That's it.

And regional flights for each other, round the world tickets etc.

Quoting qf002 (Reply 44):
to the extent that they are now pretty much second to SQ as the largest foreign carrier in Australia (in terms of seats offered, I think NZ is the largest by number of flights)

CX is number 7 behind QF, SQ, EK, NZ, VA, JQ, the top 6 make up 60% of the market. In terms of market share, CX has been sitting at around 5% of the market for the last 10 years, last year we reduced our market share by 0.1%. CX has basically added capacity as the market has grown. The airline that has eaten into the QF/SQ market share is EK, which I suspect will overtake SQ for the second spot this year.
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qf002
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RE: Qantas And China Eastern To Launch Jetstar HK

Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:06 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 45):
And regional flights for each other, round the world tickets etc.

Both would come under Oneworld business though, IMO.

Quoting zeke (Reply 45):
CX is number 7 behind QF, SQ, EK, NZ, VA, JQ

How could I forget about EK  Wow!. So CX is therefore the third largest foreign carrier in Australia by total seats (by my very rough calculations, NZ would be a few hundred behind CX)? In any case, they're a pretty competitive force for QF.

Quoting zeke (Reply 45):
CX has basically added capacity as the market has grown.

This might well be the case, but CX has far outgrown QF in the market since Oneworld was formed -- CX has managed to grab most of that market growth.
 
cchan
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RE: Qantas And China Eastern To Launch Jetstar HK

Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:44 pm

Quoting qf002 (Reply 46):
This might well be the case, but CX has far outgrown QF in the market since Oneworld was formed -- CX has managed to grab most of that market growth.

There are good reasons why more passengers prefer CX compared to QF.
 
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Zkpilot
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RE: Qantas And China Eastern To Launch Jetstar HK

Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:31 pm

Personally I don't have a problem with Jetstar expanding in Asia. In fact I think its a great idea.
What I do have a problem with is Jetstar Australia taking routes away from Qantas, so unless J*HK starts flying to Oz directly and cancelling QF flights then I think this is a good move (one of the few that AJ&Co have done).

However..... QF has just stopped flying HKG-LHR... WHYYYYYYYY would you do this when the Olympics are about to start soon (plus northern summer peak), and why would you do this when you have just launched a partner operation in HKG that will invariably feed QF flights?! This is the problem of AJ... takes one step forward and two steps back.
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cam747
Posts: 51
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RE: Qantas And China Eastern To Launch Jetstar HK

Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:08 pm

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 48):
However..... QF has just stopped flying HKG-LHR... WHYYYYYYYY would you do this when the Olympics are about to start soon (plus northern summer peak), and why would you do this when you have just launched a partner operation in HKG that will invariably feed QF flights?! This is the problem of AJ... takes one step forward and two steps back.

You would hope that someone at Qantas has dusted off the calculator to determine that they can make just as much money (possibly more) on HGK-LON codesharing with BA - both during the month of the Olympics and all other times. Australians will still be able to get to London on a QF ticket via a number of routes.

They will still have the feeders from both ends into HKG to feed their HK LCC new venture - from Australia on their own metal, and from Europe on BA. I would also expect QF to beef up frequencies from Australia after the launch (a direct ADL-HKG flight has been roumored for a while now).

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