http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2012/03/27/j...upts-flight/#.T3H-rfKRCAI.facebook

Seems like a common occurrence lately!


Cheers
Drew MCO

Is it possible the pilot may be diabetic? When your blood sugar gets low you can exhibit erradic behavior that can be interpreted as intoxication.

Just heard this on the radio. Tackling and arrest are not appropriate responses to a medical emergency. It sounds as if the pilot was having a stroke or seizure of some sort. (In a seizure, restraint can be even more damaging.)

A complete and accurate story should be forthcoming. The linked article, and the radio report I heard, were not complete, and partially contradictory. (Off-duty pilot flying? or just involved in restraining? Arrested, not arrested?)

-Rampart

Cue up Leno and Letterman!!!!

Seriously, how long until we see video from somebody's phone about this incident?

Quoting FingerLakerAv8r (Reply 1): Is it possible the pilot may be diabetic? When your blood sugar gets low you can exhibit erradic behavior that can be interpreted as intoxication

Finding a doctor to pass that medical is like the average persons chances of winning the lottery.

He would have had to prove beyond a doubt that he had it in control,over a long period of time and on an ongoing basis.

Quoting richierich (Reply 3): Seriously, how long until we see video from somebody's phone about this incident?

Here:

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/j..._berserk_on_A4AFpyyOXCuUvryqgykKwI

Listen carefully near the end of the second video- sounds like the guy filming is confronted by his seat mate after one of the FA's told passengers taking photos was unnecessary- starts to get a little heated.

[Edited 2012-03-27 12:47:39]

Quoting richierich (Reply 3): Seriously, how long until we see video from somebody's phone about this incident?

It's "allegedly" on the link provided in the OP. I can't watch it.

I'm a lilttle worried about the "restrain him" order. I didn't realize FAs had law enforcement authority. Maybe they need to, but with that they require some training in legal issues and procedures.

Large men restraining someone having a seizure or breakdown. It's 1920s psychiatric medicine all over again.

Quoting richierich (Reply 3): Seriously, how long until we see video from somebody's phone about this incident?

About ten minutes ago if you were tuned into MSNBC. Looked a little bumpy.

Hope he's ok.

Quoting rampart (Reply 2): Is it possible the pilot may be diabetic?

Oh, come on. Maybe he is. But don't let that excuse him from running up and down the aisle of the plane screaming, 'Say your prayers!'

Thankfully there is video of this so people can decide for themselves whether this is 'diabetes' at work.
  

As long as there is the occasional story like this, I dont think we have to worry about single-pilot operations any time soon...

Quoting rl757pvd (Reply 9): As long as there is the occasional story like this, I dont think we have to worry about single-pilot operations any time soon...

Avoid Cape Air then  

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 8): But don't let that excuse him from running up and down the aisle of the plane screaming, 'Say your prayers!'

Do we know that he is diabetic ?

People who have diabetic seizures act in different ways. Alot of times slurred speeech is one of the signs. Most have no reccollection of what they say or do. It can can easily be mistaken for being outright drunk. I've seen it myself.

[Edited 2012-03-27 12:19:59]

If you have diabetes the best you can get is a third class medical certificate if you use insulin. And that takes quite some doing.
Your local FAA medical examiner can't grant the certificate OKC has to grant it after carefully reviewing your particular case each and every time you are up for renewal.

So based on that since most ATP licenses require a First Class medical, I think he would be out.

It could be that perhaps he had a mini stroke or similar or some kind of neurological event that caused this situation.

And on no! It was a flight 191!!!

Quoting type-rated (Reply 12): And on no! It was a flight 191!!!

I saw that too.

Quoting FingerLakerAv8r (Reply 1): Is it possible the pilot may be diabetic

Last time I looked at the FARs they prohibited diabetics from obtaining a pilot's license.

Quoting BCEaglesCO757 (Reply 4): Finding a doctor to pass that medical is like the average persons chances of winning the lottery. He would have had to prove beyond a doubt that he had it in control,over a long period of time and on an ongoing basis.

Unlikely even then. In fact, it would be incompetent of the doctor to approve a type-I diabetic to fly an airliner.

Pilots that are diagnosed with type 2 diabetes that does not require insulin or other medications are able to hold a class 1 medical.

At the risk of speculating here... It could be possible that the guy simply cracked up. Technically, that would be a medical issue... And I'm sure B6 doesn't want to put out a statement that says, "Our aircraft diverted because our captain cracked up."

...sounds like the guy had a big breakdown and was violent/out of control

[Edited 2012-03-27 12:46:56]

Reading the articles and seeing it on the news, he started to act bizzare after he left the restroom. From what I have seen, and know, of diabetes, which isnt a great deal, I dont think a diabetic siuation gets that bad so quickly. However, I stand corrected.

I hate to say it, but it makes me wonder if some kind of drug reaction, maybe even street drugs, is involved. It just seems that everything changed so suddenly.

Could it be another bipolar situation? We may never know the answer to this one.

Quoting rampart (Reply 6): I'm a lilttle worried about the "restrain him" order. I didn't realize FAs had law enforcement authority. Maybe they need to, but with that they require some training in legal issues and procedures.

It's great that passengers have proven time and time again that they are always willing to come to the help of a cabin crew member during an emergency. However, it is quite troubling that the automatic response to any on board disturbance these days is, "Tackle him/her!" The flight attendant who made that request over the PA system may have just freaked out and not known what to do... It is too soon to tell what happened but it seems like requiring four passengers to tackle a crew member having a medical emergency was not only unnecessary but wreck less.

In the recent AA incident where a mentally ill F/A had a mental breakdown the remaining F/As and an off duty pilot did try to verbally calm her down before resorting to physical force. It doesn't seem like any attempt was made here to establish what was actually happening before resorting to physical force.

Even if he was diabetic, he was still a threat.

It used to be passengers acting nuts, lately it has been the crew.

Folks, let's all give the guy a break. Something profoundly disruptive has clearly happened in his life, most likely derailed a presumably successful and promising career with a good company.

The flight is safe; I just hope the affected Captain can get treatment and manage a full recovery.

Quoting sccutler (Reply 22): Folks, let's all give the guy a break. Something profoundly disruptive has clearly happened in his life, most likely derailed a presumably successful and promising career with a good company. The flight is safe; I just hope the affected Captain can get treatment and manage a full recovery

  

This might come as a shock to many on this board, but pilots and flight attendants ARE human after all! We are not Gods, like some passengers think we are, and we are susceptible to lots of things in life, just like everyone else is. Who knows, he might have just lost a kid, or was handed divorce papers, or could have a serious, undiagnosed medical issue. The fact is, the flight landed safely and the system worked. Until we know more about the situation, give they guy a break!

Quoting N757ST (Reply 16): Pilots that are diagnosed with type 2 diabetes that does not require insulin or other medications are able to hold a class 1 medical.

Just for the record.....

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/...ec_cons/disease_prot/diabetes_med/

Quoting sccutler (Reply 22): Folks, let's all give the guy a break. Something profoundly disruptive has clearly happened in his life, most likely derailed a presumably successful and promising career with a good company. The flight is safe; I just hope the affected Captain can get treatment and manage a full recovery.

He doesn't need a break, he needs to never be allowed to fly on a plane. He might recover to be functioning, but he will never make a full recovery.

Another story said the passengers restrained him with a zip tie and that he broke it. That takes a lot of strength, the only thing that I have seen that can give you that strength is a huge amount adrenaline or PCP.

Quoting sccutler (Reply 22): Folks, let's all give the guy a break. Something profoundly disruptive has clearly happened in his life, most likely derailed a presumably successful and promising career with a good company. The flight is safe; I just hope the affected Captain can get treatment and manage a full recovery.

Amen to that.
But I think it is fair to wonder what is making people 'snap' lately - is it the economy? The threat of terrorism? External domestic (and unrelated) incidents? Is it just in the US? Last month it was a flight attendant, now a pilot. Just about every airline has a had a passenger or two subdued in the past few years. Are we only hearing/seeing these incidents because just about everybody has a video camera in their phone now?

Thank God everybody is safe, as always that is first and foremost.

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 8): Quoting rampart (Reply 2): Is it possible the pilot may be diabetic? Oh, come on. Maybe he is.

For the record, that wasn't my quote. Glitch in the program.

Quoting BCEaglesCO757 (Reply 11): Do we know that he is diabetic ?

In my post, I suggested simply a medical condition, undefined seizure. Pretty obvious something is wrong. What caused it, nobody here knows.

Quoting tp1040 (Reply 25): He doesn't need a break, he needs to never be allowed to fly on a plane. He might recover to be functioning, but he will never make a full recovery.

Thank you Dr. tp1040. Some humanity would be appropriate.

Quoting tp1040 (Reply 25): Another story said the passengers restrained him with a zip tie and that he broke it. That takes a lot of strength, the only thing that I have seen that can give you that strength is a huge amount adrenaline or PCP.

Several kinds of muscle contractions could cause this. EXACTLY why forceful restraint is sometimes dangerous to the person having a seizure or other similar event. Dislocate their own shoulder. Bite through things, breaking teeth. Asphyxiate. This leap to restraint, in the name of security but in ignorance of medical condition, is not good.

Is the carriage of personal zip-ties common these days??

-Rampart

Time for a way out whacky theory. I don't believe in coincidences. But doesn't it seem hinky that recently a poor flight attendant kirked out while in flight. Maybe chem trails, maybe something in the aviation fuel, smart money says it's the "blue juice." Lavatory toilet juices. I hope both are OK and things get back to normal for B6.

Quoting richierich (Reply 26): But I think it is fair to wonder what is making people 'snap' lately - is it the economy? The threat of terrorism? External domestic (and unrelated) incidents? Is it just in the US? Last month it was a flight attendant, now a pilot. Just about every airline has a had a passenger or two subdued in the past few years. Are we only hearing/seeing these incidents because just about everybody has a video camera in their phone now?

Having once worked in crisis intervention for a long time, often times, as the saying goes, it is the STRAW that breaks the camels back. It isnt, really, the load, it is the straw. Who knows what was going on in his personal and professional life and, possibly, along came something else and it all became too much.

Many times too, all the accumulated things were not brought on by the person but just lifes events. It is all very,v ery sad.

Add all this and all the cuts that are going on in the mental health field and there is, indeed, a near certainty that we will hear more of these kinds of things. Hopefully l they wont be airline pilots, flying planes, but who is to say it cant or wont happen again?

For many reaons the world, airline industry, economy etc. etc. etc are all vastly different than even a few years ago.

[Edited 2012-03-27 14:04:40]

Quoting rampart (Reply 27): Thank you Dr. tp1040. Some humanity would be appropriate. Quoting tp1040 (Reply 25): Another story said the passengers restrained him with a zip tie and that he broke it. That takes a lot of strength, the only thing that I have seen that can give you that strength is a huge amount adrenaline or PCP. Several kinds of muscle contractions could cause this. EXACTLY why forceful restraint is sometimes dangerous to the person having a seizure or other similar event. Dislocate their own shoulder. Bite through things, breaking teeth. Asphyxiate. This leap to restraint, in the name of security but in ignorance of medical condition, is not good. Is the carriage of personal zip-ties common these days??

I have more compassion and humanity for the people that had to endure this event. Give the guy a break, seriously? What kind of break? Let him fly again. Not arrest him. Let him go home.

He will get professional treatment, he doesn't need a break.

You have a seriously deranged person that is a threat. I guess the F/A should have asked him to sit down, put on his seat belt and put his seat in the upright position.

Yes, restraint can be harmful to the assailant, but less harmful to the passengers. I would be more worried about him hurting others that were trying to protect the passengers.

Lastly, I would assume the zip ties came from the crew. That is just conjecture.

Quoting bcoz (Reply 17): It could be possible that the guy simply cracked up.

Quoting sccutler (Reply 22): Folks, let's all give the guy a break. Something profoundly disruptive has clearly happened in his life, most likely derailed a presumably successful and promising career with a good company.

Read the book Squawk 7700 and believing that this pilot simply had a break down makes a lot of sense.

Come to think of it, isnt this the second public breakdown of a B6 crew member? The B6 FA that opened the emergency slide and went down the slide as pax werfe boarding?

Possibly, is there something going on in the B6 corporate culture that, possibly, that helps cause these meltdowns?

[Edited 2012-03-27 14:21:30]

Sorry, folks. If ANYONE is acting bizarre or irrational in the vicinity the cockpit, he/she needs to be restrained immediately. -ir

Quoting FingerLakerAv8r (Reply 1): Is it possible the pilot may be diabetic? When your blood sugar gets low you can exhibit erradic behavior that can be interpreted as intoxication.

I did'nt think people with Diabetes Mellitus 1 could get a pilot licence ? Type 1 is treated with insulin injections and this kind of behaviour is possible if you have this type, wich is why I did'nt think it would be possible to get a pilot licence with type 1 Diabetes. Too risky

Quoting N757ST (Reply 16): Pilots that are diagnosed with type 2 diabetes that does not require insulin or other medications are able to hold a class 1 medical.

Diabetes type 2 is most often treated with tablets and meals and not usually with insulin injections. I am not sure you can get these kind of reactions if you have type 2 Diabetes.

Quoting tp1040 (Reply 25): He doesn't need a break, he needs to never be allowed to fly on a plane.

Never allowed to fly as a *passenger* again? That's far too harsh.

Quoting cbphoto (Reply 23): Quoting sccutler (Reply 22): Folks, let's all give the guy a break. Something profoundly disruptive has clearly happened in his life, most likely derailed a presumably successful and promising career with a good company. The flight is safe; I just hope the affected Captain can get treatment and manage a full recovery This might come as a shock to many on this board, but pilots and flight attendants ARE human after all! We are not Gods, like some passengers think we are, and we are susceptible to lots of things in life, just like everyone else is. Who knows, he might have just lost a kid, or was handed divorce papers, or could have a serious, undiagnosed medical issue. The fact is, the flight landed safely and the system worked. Until we know more about the situation, give they guy a break!

Agreed. It's easy to anonymously sit behind your computer and crack jokes about exposure to "blue juice," or make blanket statements about what should and should not happen to this individual in the future. Until we know all the facts, it's inappropriate to enter into such conjecture.

I had a coworker who one day came into the office and had a similar kind of breakdown. Turns out he had a brain tumor that caused behavioral changes and hadn't gone for a physical in years and so no one ever caught it. After a major surgery and treatment, he's his old self again (and admittedly that's a low percentage success rate). So my point is that there could be a million reasons why this happened. Is it high profile? Yes. Was it scary for the passengers? Probably yes. Was it unsafe? Ultimately, and fortunately, no. Should we all be making blanket statements about this individual ever flying again? No.

It is obvious that a medical situation happened here. First, he was a captain. He did not get to captain by exhibiting these behaviors in his career. Something triggered his actions. He could have had a common cold, and could have been prescribed something that caused this,,, for all we know! Last week I was on anethisa for oral surgery. While at a pharmacy waiting for my prescription, I felt an urge to come unglued! I was so angry, and stormed out. My wife knew it was a bad reaction to the anethisa. Before judging him, we should restrain from saying he should never fly again.

Quoting islandrob (Reply 33): Sorry, folks. If ANYONE is acting bizarre or irrational in the vicinity the cockpit, he/she needs to be restrained immediately. -ir

Hey! Same sig!

And yes, for the record I agree. For a Captain to just snap like that...well...what if he snaps in the cockpit?

-IR

Quoting m11stephen (Reply 20): In the recent AA incident where a mentally ill F/A had a mental breakdown the remaining F/As and an off duty pilot did try to verbally calm her down before resorting to physical force. It doesn't seem like any attempt was made here to establish what was actually happening before resorting to physical force.

Quoting rampart (Reply 27): Several kinds of muscle contractions could cause this. EXACTLY why forceful restraint is sometimes dangerous to the person having a seizure or other similar event. Dislocate their own shoulder. Bite through things, breaking teeth. Asphyxiate. This leap to restraint, in the name of security but in ignorance of medical condition, is not good.

Are we really making the argument here that this man who was allegedly banging on the cockpit door and screaming about terrorists in the middle of the flight should not have been restrained because he may or may not have had a medical condition? So now we're supposed to assess at 30,000 feet whether the person causing a danger to the flight has a medical condition or not BEFORE we restrain him? That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. I don't think law enforcement agencies check someone's medical history before placing them under arrest, so to argue that the passengers and flight attendants on JetBlue should is just preposterous ESPECIALLY when this all occurred in the air.

What I am still trying to comprehend is the fact that he broke the zip-tie handcuffs.

Another interesting fact that I see from the news pictures is that he was restrained by EMS/PD on a wheelchair not a stretcher. He looks completely "out of it" and it must have not been that serious of a medical condition if he is not on a stretcher, has an IV or and medical monitoring devices on him put on by EMS. It looks like he might have just had a mental breakdown. Recent incidents with flight crew members might be an indication of an increases in pressure on crews or it could just be corporate culture. I think it will be a while until we know the whole story.

The link to the article with the photo: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-...mid-flight-after-erratic-behavior/

JetBlue's statement:

March 27, 2012
Flight 191
Update: 3:25 p.m. ET

A ferry flight is due to arrive to Amarillo at 3:11 p.m. local time to fly customers to their originally-scheduled destination in Las Vegas.

We would like to thank our crew on board for handling this situation per their training, and we would like to thank the customers on board for following crewmember instructions.

Flight 191 departed New York’s JFK airport at 7:28 am ET (was scheduled to depart 6:55 am ET). At roughly 10 am CT/11 am ET, the pilot in command elected to divert to Amarillo, TX for a medical situation involving the Captain. Another Captain, traveling off duty, entered the flight deck prior to landing at Amarillo, and took over the duties of the ill crewmember. The aircraft arrived Amarillo at 10:11 am CT, and the crewmember was removed from the aircraft and taken to a local medical facility.

Customers have safely deplaned and we’re sending a new aircraft and crew to Amarillo to continue the flight to Las Vegas.


And the FAA statement:

ederal Aviation Administration statement on JetBlue flight 191
Posted on 03-27 at 17:25:29 CST

This morning, at approximately 9:53 a.m. Central Time, a Jet Blue flight en route to Las Vegas from New York JFK International Airport was diverted to Amarillo Rick Husband International Airport for an onboard medical emergency.

Preliminary information indicates that after landing, it was learned that the co-pilot became concerned that the captain exhibited erratic behavior during the flight. The captain had exited the cockpit during the flight, after which the co-pilot locked the door. When the captain attempted to enter the locked cockpit, he was subdued by passengers. After the flight landed safely, local law enforcement secured the pilot without incident, and he was transported by ambulance for medical evaluation.

The aircraft was towed to the terminal building and the passengers were safely deplaned from the aircraft. Passengers are currently awaiting continuation of their travel to Las Vegas.

The FBI, FAA, TSA and local law enforcement are coordinating on this incident.

Quoting TWASkyliner747 (Reply 42): Another interesting fact that I see from the news pictures is that he was restrained by EMS/PD on a wheelchair not a stretcher. He looks completely "out of it" and it must have not been that serious of a medical condition if he is not on a stretcher, has an IV or and medical monitoring devices on him put on by EMS. It looks like he might have just had a mental breakdown. Recent incidents with flight crew members might be an indication of an increases in pressure on crews or it could just be corporate culture. I think it will be a while until we know the whole story.

As someone who works in EMS myself, the chair he is on in the picture is not a wheel chair, it is a stair chair/evacuation chair which are carried on ambulances and used to move patients up/down stairs and from areas where a stretcher is not feasible or cannot physically fit. Just because he doesn't have any IV or medical monitoring devices on him in the picture doesn't mean anything.

I am not directing this at you but everybody...don't be too quick to judge until you get the full story.

Due to the ADA, the public may not really know the medical condition that probably caused this situation. I would give thanks to the sound thinking of the co-pilot, realizing that a potentially dangerous situation was occurring took sound actions per his training and to the sheer luck that an off-duty pilot was available.

As to the assistance of the pax, apparently some were trained law enforcement and security people on the way to LAS for a security industry convention there.

Quoting jkudall (Reply 44):

Quoting jkudall (Reply 44): I am not directing this at you but everybody...don't be too quick to judge until you get the full story.

Just inferring, I'm not judging anyone. I do have some experience in the EMS field and what I was getting at with the whole no IV thing was that this obviously had nothing to do with a diabetic attack because if it did he would have some medical aid involving a hr monitor or IV. But again, I do not know what happened while EMS was inside the aircraft. If the pilot was incapacitated or having any severe medical difficulties during or after landing he would have been brought down on a board. But again, I am not deeply involved with the EMS/Emergency Medicine community so don't quote me on this, just making some observations, I thought that this is what this forum is here to discuss.

This may make way for new psychological tests for a 1st Class Medical.

Quoting rampart (Reply 6): I'm a lilttle worried about the "restrain him" order. I didn't realize FAs had law enforcement authority.

Seems like the 100% best move to me. What should the FA do? Unless there is an Air Marshall is on the aircraft the Captain has the "law enforcement" authority on the plane. Well this takes him out, FO was flying, next person to give instructions is certainly an FA. They are on the plane to ensure safety they did a great job.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 45): I would give thanks to the sound thinking of the co-pilot, realizing that a potentially dangerous situation was occurring took sound actions per his training and to the sheer luck that an off-duty pilot was available.

FO did a fantastic job! Great move and thinking by him/her.


Seems like a panic attack or something like that. Very odd situation.

Quoting flymia (Reply 47): FO did a fantastic job! Great move and thinking by him/her.

Totally agree! He/She did a great job. Also, one of the passengers described the Captain as looking like he was having a panic attack.

Quoting N757ST (Reply 16): Pilots that are diagnosed with type 2 diabetes that does not require insulin or other medications are able to hold a class 1 medical.

In Canada, a pilot with insulin-dependent diabetes (type 1 or 2) can hold a class 1 medical if certain control criteria are met; the certificate is restricted to as/with co-pilot.

It's actually getting a class 3 medical that's impossible if you're insulin-dependent because that entitles you to fly single-crew aircraft. For a class 3, only diabetics controlled by diet and exercise, or with oral hypoglycemics, with good control and no hypoglycemic episodes, are entitled to hold a medical. The only way a private pilot with insulin-dependent diabetes can fly solo is with a class 4 medical which entitles you to fly gliders, ultralights or hold a recreational pilot permit (180 hp max, only one passenger, day VFR only, etc.), and very strict guidelines have to be met, a quick-acting source of sugar carried on-board, extra cardiac tests, etc.

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviatio...s/tp13312-2-diabetes-menu-2155.htm

Beech

Quoting richierich (Reply 3): Cue up Leno and Letterman!!!!

oh jeez, guys -_- haha


Seriously though, this is scary stuff, when the pilot loses his mind....The CAPTAIN of the airplane...

I hope he's ok, and gets the proper treatment so it won't happen again.