PAX Attacked US Air FA After Refusal Of Alcohol

san88 · Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:41 pm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/nation...w/2012/03/28/gIQA3Af8fS_story.html

http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/p...crew-on-us-airways-flight/658245/1

"The apparently intoxicated passenger aboard US Airways flight 1697 kicked, spit on, and cursed at a flight attendant after the crew member refused to serve her alcohol, according to the arrest report by Lee County Port Authority Police."

"After Albedhady-Sanchez kicked and spit on the female flight attendant who refused to serve her alcohol, a male attendant who tried to intervene was slapped across the jaw, the arrest report said. Albedhady-Sanchez kicked a second male flight attendant in the groin as the off-duty deputy wrestled her to the back of the jet"

I think this happened yesterday (3/27/12) after the B6 incident

[Edited 2012-03-28 08:44:18]

hhslax2 · Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:22 pm

She's no Gerard Finneran.

SOBHI51 · Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:28 pm

Quoting san88 (Thread starter):
Albedhady-Sanchez

First name is an Arabic male name, great combination here, male Arab with a Mexican family name and the attacker was a woman

aeroblogger · Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:35 pm

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 2):

First name is an Arabic male name, great combination here, male Arab with a Mexican family name and the attacker was a woman

I assumed that the attacker is Spanish, not Mexican. After all, Cordoba is still full of Muslims... Not sure if "Peggy" is a Spanish name, but it certainly is a woman's name.

chootie · Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:58 pm

This woman DEFINATELY had no right to be on that flight.

DTWPurserBoy · Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:57 pm

I have had more confrontations with people "who appear to be intoxicated" than any other problem in 38 years of flying. First I try to defuse the situation, then reason. The bottom line is that any f/a can deny alcohol to anay passenger at any time for any reason. End of subject per the FAR's. And when one person cuts them off the word goes around the airplane to every crew member. We are on to all the tricks--drinking out of their own bottles (yes, we CAN take the bottle away), asking another passenger to act as a "mule" and bring them drinks (we watch who is traveling with the person and who is sitting near them), running to another galley assuming that those f/a's do notknow what is going on. Forget it guys--you are on OUR turf now. And BTW-any alcohol-related problems are MANDATORILY reported to the FAA. You may or may not get a letter in the mail advising you of the fine and probably 99% of you throw it in the trash. Until it comes income tax time. They will withold your refund until it is paid with interest and penalties. The FAA is deadly serious about this.

usflyer msp · Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:09 pm

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 2):
First name is an Arabic male name, great combination here, male Arab with a Mexican family name and the attacker was a woman

Seeing she is from Union City, NJ...I am going guess that she is Egyptian and is married (or was formerly married) to a Puerto Rican/Dominican/Cuban guy.

ORDJOE · Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:50 pm

I really wish they would start to give significant jail time to these people as a deterrent, this happens far too often .

PHX787 · Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:36 am

Quoting san88 (Thread starter):
"The apparently intoxicated passenger aboard US Airways flight 1697 kicked, spit on, and cursed at a flight attendant after the crew member refused to serve her alcohol, according to the arrest report by Lee County Port Authority Police."

Holy crap have we seen it all recently with flights -_-

But honestly, what could someone do in this sort of situation? When you have a passenger who becomes increasingly intoxicated, you can't simply refuse them alcohol, or else THIS happens.... Do you think flights need to have a set limit on how many drinks someone can have?

traindoc · Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:50 am

Ban her for life on ANY U.S. airline! Absolutely unacceptable! This has happened to me and my staff in the E.R., and we file assault charges.

BreninTW · Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:00 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 8):
When you have a passenger who becomes increasingly intoxicated, you can't simply refuse them alcohol, or else THIS happens

A couple of years ago I was flying TPE - PEN. There was a Gaelic sports team on the flight with me -- one member of which had already consumed 1/4 to 1/3 of a bottle of vodka before boarding (8:30 AM flight if I remember correctly). He kept asking for drinks during the flight, and after a couple, the crew refused to serve him more.

He became more and more insistent on getting a drink, even walking back to the galley while the seatbelt sign was on. Eventually the purser walked over to him and quietly whispered something in his ear. I have no idea what she said, but it had the desired effect -- he shut up and sulked through the rest of the flight.

Since we were flying through Cambodian airspace at the time, I rather suspect she told him to shut up or we'd land and he'd be escorted off the plane and into a Cambodian jail.

I was so impressed with the way it was handled that I wrote to the head of passenger services at the airline and commended the crew.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 8):
Do you think flights need to have a set limit on how many drinks someone can have

I really don't think this would be useful. Two reasons: 1) People drink before the flight, so they may be intoxicated already (see above). 2) Different people have different tolerance levels for alcohol. I don't generallly drink, so my tolerance is very low (2 drinks can already make me quite tispy). I know people who can knock back most of a bottle of wine and not appear intoxicated...

olddominion727 · Thu Mar 29, 2012 1:01 am

Quoting ORDJOE (Reply 7):

I think they should stop ALL alcoholic beverages. I love a good drink 2-3 times a week. I get on a plane and have 2 double wild turkey's with Gingergale (or before the flight in the bar) just because I am a white-knuckled flier. If I have a bad day, usually one less because I am overly tired already. If it's a flight 90mins or less I may have two drinks. THE POINT is, I can handle my alcohol. I do not push the limits and I like to keep some sort of togetherness with myself. I was on a flight about 12 years ago. 2/3 empty LHRSFO on VS. The last 15 rows at least were totally empty. The head purser asked us all to move forward. I went back to the bathroom and found a couple having a very good time and both of them were sloshed! Granted they composed themselves when the flight attendant asked them to behave. But clearly the alcohol lowered their inhibitions. They stopped allowing pax to smoke on aircraft for the comfort and safety of others. I think the no drinking policy should fall under the same category. If one of the fools got outta hand and possibly, accidentally hurt a pilot or co-pilot, it could really be an issue or limit pax to one drink every two hours of the flight.10-hr flight, they're not going to get too unruly...

JohnJ · Thu Mar 29, 2012 2:54 am

Quoting olddominion727 (Reply 11):
I think they should stop ALL alcoholic beverages.

By extension, all airport bars should be closed and airport restaurants should not serve alcohol. The security checkpoints should have breathalyzers installed to ensure that no one enters the airport who might have gotten intoxicated off-premises. Point is, I think it would be fairly difficult to get particularly drunk in domestic coach class on US Airways (or any other US carrier for that matter). At $7 a pop for a drink, you'd need to take out a second mortgage on your house to afford more than a couple of drinks. And the way the drink service is run, it's hard to imagine the F/As dishing out more than 3-4 drinks to anyone on a flight. First class, different story, but in coach I think it'd be hard to get out of control drunk.

[Edited 2012-03-28 19:55:44]

Moose135 · Thu Mar 29, 2012 3:03 am

Quoting traindoc (Reply 9):
Ban her for life on ANY U.S. airline!

Do you know the whole story? Maybe she has a medical problem or had a bad reaction to something she took. In this same forum, people are saying that we shouldn't be judgmental and need to know the whole story about the B6 pilot who caused the disturbance on his flight, but when it's a passenger, just ban them, no questions asked, despite the fact that he posed a much greater risk to the safety of his flight...

rcair1 · Thu Mar 29, 2012 3:25 am

Quoting chootie (Reply 4):
This woman DEFINATELY had no right to be on that flight.

Nobody has any RIGHT to be on any flight. Unfortunately, too many people - most pandering politicians - are forgetting this. Some of those same politicians are, at the same time, trying to limit the rights we do have.
Many of the things people call 'rights' are really privileges.

Quoting traindoc (Reply 9):

Ban her for life on ANY U.S. airline! Absolutely unacceptable! This has happened to me and my staff in the E.R., and we

Not sure there is a way to do that. I do think that airline should be allowed to deny her service - though those politicians above would howl. The closest is a restraining order against her, but good luck with that. Assault charges are certainly warranted.

zippyjet · Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:01 am

Hopefully she'll get an all expense paid stay at the local jail. Who knows, maybe this will get her to dry out and maybe prevent a DWI incident resulting in destruction and death. I hope the FA"s are OK and they get negative results from any skank diseases from this lush skank.

Type-Rated · Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:17 am

And some wonder why Southwest is so sensitive to people who have had alcohol before they board....

One thing I noticed in the concourse past security at HOU is that they only have one place that serves alcohol. And it's a tiny little place with no tables or chairs. It must have about 10'x10' of floor space. Not enough room for many people at all. I heard from someone at the airport management office that when they built the new concourse a few years ago Southwest asked that the bar be designed this way.

HPRamper · Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:23 am

Quoting moose135 (Reply 13):
Do you know the whole story? Maybe she has a medical problem or had a bad reaction to something she took.

Spitting on and assaulting flight attendants is not a "bad reaction." The act of spitting on someone can be considered a serious offense and threat to the health of the other person. IIRC if the spitter has certain contagious diseases it can be considered assault with a deadly weapon. It is a big deal.

SEA · Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:45 am

Quoting moose135 (Reply 13):
Do you know the whole story? Maybe she has a medical problem or had a bad reaction to something she took.

If she had a medical problem, the FA would have been alerted ahead of time.

ASFlyer · Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:09 am

Quoting SEA (Reply 18):
If she had a medical problem, the FA would have been alerted ahead of time.

That's not true at all. We don't know the medical condition of anybody on board unless they volunteer it for some odd reason. Even those brought on in wheelchairs/aisle chairs. All we generally know is that they use a wheelchair or need an aisle chair. It's not our business to know what's wrong with them unless they need us to know for some reason.

Moose135 · Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:37 am

Quoting SEA (Reply 18):
If she had a medical problem, the FA would have been alerted ahead of time.

Who alerted the B6 crew about their pilot's medical problem ahead of time, if that's what it was?

tonystan · Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:49 am

You will have to excuse my severe ignorance on the matter but, do US carriers not carry Air Marshalls for situations like this? Just seems wierd after a few recent high profile events lately there has been no mention of these guys!

b727fa · Thu Mar 29, 2012 2:57 pm

An Air Marshal won't intervene for spitting and clawing an FA. That could be a diversion for someone to do a "bigger" attack on the FD.

Thrust · Thu Mar 29, 2012 3:25 pm

Well, we definitely know at the minimum this person needs to go to AA...if you feel compelled to attack somebody when you are denied a drink, I'd say it's a fairly good sign you might be an alcoholic.

KAL7478 · Thu Mar 29, 2012 3:39 pm

I remember on a flight from YYZ to FRA 2 passengers sitting next to me asked where was this flight headed?. They were quite loaded from the get go and kept asking for alcohol until FA refused to serve them any more. Most passengers drink with in reasonable limits ( the ones that do ) but I feel like airlines should consider rules that limit alcohol consumption with severe penalties on any abuse of flight crew or fellow passengers. The above example is a very common occurrence with varying degrees of disturbance.

tonystan · Thu Mar 29, 2012 3:43 pm

Quoting SEA (Reply 18):

If she had a medical problem, the FA would have been alerted ahead of time.

HUH???? Its none of our business what this person has. Who would alert us exactly?

Quoting B727FA (Reply 22):
An Air Marshal won't intervene for spitting and clawing an FA. That could be a diversion for someone to do a "bigger" attack on the FD.

Thats very interesting. I assumed they would get involved in any significant disruptive passenger situation. Shame they dont as they would be idea deterents!

PGNCS · Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:22 pm

Quoting ORDJOE (Reply 7):
I really wish they would start to give significant jail time to these people as a deterrent, this happens far too often

As a current airline pilot and husband of a flight attendant, I cannot agree with you more. This is unacceptable in any venue, particularly in a confined area with no opportunity of escape.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 8):
When you have a passenger who becomes increasingly intoxicated, you can't simply refuse them alcohol

Yes you can, and we do. Most people grumblingly accept it. Some don't.

Quoting moose135 (Reply 13):
Do you know the whole story?

We don't have to; she committed assault. Period.

Quoting moose135 (Reply 13):
Maybe she has a medical problem or had a bad reaction to something she took.

Which is not our problem as crewmembers. If she is unable to fly without being intoxicated for the entire duration of the flight she has no reason to be on the plane. Ever.

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 14):
Nobody has any RIGHT to be on any flight. Unfortunately, too many people - most pandering politicians - are forgetting this.

Correct, and well said. Thank you.

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 15):
Hopefully she'll get an all expense paid stay at the local jail.

She's been released as of now, but I'm hoping she gets some more time there after a court date.

Quoting type-rated (Reply 16):
And some wonder why Southwest is so sensitive to people who have had alcohol before they board....

Good for Southwest.

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 17):
Quoting moose135 (Reply 13):
Do you know the whole story? Maybe she has a medical problem or had a bad reaction to something she took.

Spitting on and assaulting flight attendants is not a "bad reaction." The act of spitting on someone can be considered a serious offense and threat to the health of the other person. IIRC if the spitter has certain contagious diseases it can be considered assault with a deadly weapon. It is a big deal.

Again, correct. Thanks HPRamper for explaining this as succinctly as possible.

Quoting SEA (Reply 18):
Quoting moose135 (Reply 13):
Do you know the whole story? Maybe she has a medical problem or had a bad reaction to something she took.

If she had a medical problem, the FA would have been alerted ahead of time.

No they would not have.

Moose135 · Thu Mar 29, 2012 6:07 pm

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 26):
As a current airline pilot and husband of a flight attendant, I cannot agree with you more. This is unacceptable in any venue, particularly in a confined area with no opportunity of escape.

Which goes back to my original question - given what we know of both incidents, do you feel the same about the B6 pilot who caused a disruption on his flight, including fighting with passengers and crew members? Should he get jail time? How about being banned from flying on any airliner, as some have suggested in this thread?

casinterest · Thu Mar 29, 2012 6:20 pm

Quoting PGNCS (Reply 26):
Again, correct. Thanks HPRamper for explaining this as succinctly as possible.

Assault and asault with intent and without cognative impariment are very different things.
To simply say an assault is an asault is simplistic and not indicative of a root cause.

Quoting Thrust (Reply 23):

Well, we definitely know at the minimum this person needs to go to AA...if you feel compelled to attack somebody when you are denied a drink, I'd say it's a fairly good sign you might be an alcoholic.

It's cognative impairment, and if it is truly alcholism, I would have to venture a guess this person has already been to at least 1 AA meeting.

blueheronNC · Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:59 pm

Where's Larry David with his untied shoelaces when you need him!

HAWK21M · Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:32 pm

Quoting moose135 (Reply 27):
Which goes back to my original question - given what we know of both incidents, do you feel the same about the B6 pilot who caused a disruption on his flight, including fighting with passengers and crew members? Should he get jail time? How about being banned from flying on any airliner, as some have suggested in this thread?

You break a law once .....You pay the penalty......Irrespective of Individual or position.

Thrust · Fri Mar 30, 2012 5:38 pm

Quoting KAL7478 (Reply 24):

I was on a U.S. Airways flight from DCA-TPA right in the middle of that giant blizzard that the Northeastern Seaboard suffered in early January 2010...right after New Year's I think. There was a guy who first off, wouldn't stop talking to me to the whole flight, his family was seated across from us with two young kids...the couple ordered four glasses of wine....I have never seen anybody drink that much on a flight before...not to mention, they weren't even sitting together. I personally think that alcohol should be banned on flights.

litz · Fri Mar 30, 2012 6:49 pm

As anyone who's ever been in a bar knows ... cutting off the drunk is one of the most dangerous things you can do ...

You have someone who is craving more drink, has all inhibitions removed by the drinks already drunk ...

And the resultant behavior is frankly unknown ... you might get a morose sulker, or someone who goes postal on you.

In this case, evidently, she went postal, and now has a whole world of trouble on hand, in terms of fines/penalties/criminal complaints.

Good way to ruin your life.

rcair1 · Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:01 pm

Quoting tonystan (Reply 25):
Thats very interesting. I assumed they would get involved in any significant disruptive passenger situation. Shame they dont as they would be idea deterents!

They are there to deal with terrorism, not as policemen. One way terrorists can 'address potential air marshals' is to create a disruption by one member of the team, which draws out the air marshal, and a second member deals with the air marshal.

Also - by no means does every flight have air marshals.

DTWPurserBoy · Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:51 pm

Air Marshalls are not aboard to deal with passenger misbehavior unless it intererferes with the safety of flight. They are pros at what they do and we are pros at what we do. Any f/a can talk down a person who appears to be intoxicated or if they appear to be under the influence of drugs, we can page for a physician. We have an extensive medical kit (in fact, 2) onboard and with an MD's orders we can administer diazapam (Valium) intramuscularly anf that will calm down an elephant. I have only had to do it once- on a flight from NRT to MNL where a woman had a major panic attack. As an RN I can talk to the MD's on the ground, give them vital signs and an assessment and they will give me the OK to shoot them in the butt with about 4 mg of Valium. Guaranteed to stop any misbehavior VERY quickly.

m11stephen · Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:21 am

Quoting B727FA (Reply 22):
An Air Marshal won't intervene for spitting and clawing an FA. That could be a diversion for someone to do a "bigger" attack on the FD.

Thank you for saying that. I was a little hesitant to but I thought it was important to say.

Quoting tonystan (Reply 21):
You will have to excuse my severe ignorance on the matter but, do US carriers not carry Air Marshalls for situations like this? Just seems wierd after a few recent high profile events lately there has been no mention of these guys!

Air Marshals are deployed to stop hijackings and other acts of terrorism. They are not body guards for the crew and passengers. F/As are still responsible for handling and managing all on board security incidents up to and including a hijacking. Air Marshals do not relieve the cabin crew from security duties they are simply another layer of protection.

Quoting tonystan (Reply 25):
Thats very interesting. I assumed they would get involved in any significant disruptive passenger situation. Shame they dont as they would be idea deterents!

It would do FAR more harm than good if air marshals got involved in every little passenger disturbance.

tonystan · Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:32 am

Quoting m11stephen (Reply 35):
It would do FAR more harm than good if air marshals got involved in every little passenger disturbance.

Ah but yoiu see, I dont consider a FA being physically assaulted as a "little" passenger disturbance and nor does any airline in Europe....only we dont have air marshalls here!

HAWK21M · Sat Mar 31, 2012 9:55 am

I think an assault could flare up very quickly if not controlled in time.
All needed action should be used.
& promptly.

aeroflop · Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:24 am

Assault in an aircraft in the US. Bye now, she will spend a long time in jail.

HPRamper · Sat Mar 31, 2012 5:23 pm

Yeah, right. With how things go in this country, she will probably be suing US Airways.

DTWPurserBoy · Sun Apr 01, 2012 2:17 pm

I have personaly witnessed a physical assault on a female flight attendant by a man. All she did was politely ask him to ask him to take his seat as we were ready to push back from the gate. Fortunately we were still at the gate. He was physically dragged from the aircraft by police after he refused a direct order from the officer to deplane. Even afterwards, on the jet bridge, he continued to mouth off to the State Police Officers (now numbering about 12) and refusing to show ID. BIG mistake--never mouth off to a police officer,especially a State Trooper! Last I saw of him he was being frog-marched in handcuffs down the stairs on the side of the jet bridge into a waiting police car. He was charged with battery, assault on a crew member, interfering with the duties of a flight crew member, failure to obey a police officer's orders and a whole bunch of other stuff. He spent a week in jail, got a HUGE fine and was permanently barred from flying on our airline for life. We later found out his employer also terminated him AND the assaulted flight attendant sued him in civil court and got enough money to pay off her mortgage.

I say good for her! I'd have done the same thing except if you hit me, I defend myself.

Thrust · Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:14 pm

Quoting casinterest (Reply 28):

Just because you go to an AA meeting doesn't mean you'll stop drinking...if you're serious about AA, you won't ever pick up another drink again, or take measures such as getting a sponsor, a list of people you need to call if you have an overwhelming temptation to drink, etc. I know all this because I personally know people who have successfully stayed sober because of it. It's a lifelong commitment. And I personally have to say that is very abnormal for somebody to get that uptight over being denied a drink.

Quoting Thrust (Reply 31):

When I say four glasses of wine, I mean four glasses of wine apiece. And it's not like it was cheap either. This couple spent over $50 on wine. Anybody willing to pay that much for wine for just a two hour flight has a serious drinking problem IMO.

m11stephen · Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:28 am

Quoting tonystan (Reply 36):
Ah but yoiu see, I dont consider a FA being physically assaulted as a "little" passenger disturbance and nor does any airline in Europe....only we dont have air marshalls here!

Compared to a team of suicidal hijackers taking over an aircraft it is considered a minor threat. This is why it is so important for F/As to be able to defend themselves and for passengers to come to the aid of F/As when they need it.

F9Animal · Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:17 am

Absolutely unacceptable behaviors! Anyone that assaults a crew member should face serious time. What is up with the flying public anymore? Absolute trash balls in the cabins.

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