According to our local news agencies, Southwest is making an announcement at Dayton at 5pm. Article seems to indicate that the will be announcing the routes for new service (replacing FL) from DAY.

http://www.springfieldnewssun.com/ne...olving-dayton-airport-1353808.html

I wouldn't be surprised to hear the normal culprits MDW, BWI, maybe DEN(?), and some routes to FL. Any other guesses?

DAY-DEN will begin on Southwest Metal.

Check www.southwest.com and go to the route map.

Alex

CAK also has an announcement at 5pm today.

Looks like Southwest is backtracking on some of their integration of flying:

All four of these markets were planned for AirTran aircraft feeding Southwest hubs, but now Southwest will operate them.

DSM-MDW
CAK-MDW
CAK-DEN
DAY-DEN

http://www.blogsouthwest.com/blog/we...e-schedule-changes-summer-and-fall

Headline News: Southwest is adding THREE new cities! Effective August 12, Southwest will begin daily service at Akron-Canton (CAK) and Dayton, Ohio (DAY). At Akron-Canton, we’ll begin with two daily roundtrips to Chicago Midway and a daily roundtrip to Denver alongside AirTran’s 10 daily flights to five markets. At Dayton, we’ll begin with one daily roundtrip to Denver alongside FL’s eight daily flights to four markets. Then, on September 30, we’ll begin service to Iowa’s Capital—Des Moines (DSM)—with two roundtrips to Chicago Midway, effectively converting that airport to the Southwest brand. The new Southwest service will offer Customers in Ohio and Iowa fantastic access to the rest of the Southwest network.

Looks like WN is adding ...
3rd daily STL-BOS...
New PDX-AUS
New STL-ECP

A lot of WN's West Cities into ATL will have some flights go back to Air Tran due to the integration issues with the code-shares.


My thread was deleted for being a duplicate of this even though I was covering the schedule changes..suggest this title be amended to say "WN New Schedule Changes" or something to that effect so we can discuss other cities beyond DAY.

Alex

Sweet...now if they can add the long-awaited DAY-OKC, I'll be all set   

So DEN-MKE will be all WN (the one FL flight is switching to WN). And they are adding a DEN-ATL FL flight. Plus the above mentioned DEN-DAY and DEN-CAK.

Quoting ADent (Reply 6): So DEN-MKE will be all WN (the one FL flight is switching to WN).

As it turns out, MKE-DEN was scheduled to go to 2x AirTran and 1x Southwest in August, so it's a change of two round trips (from the original schedle) to move Southwest to 3x and AirTran to 0x.

Probably not a bad move considering how weak MKE-DEN has been for AirTran. Southwest jumped in mid-September 2011, and while it was never a strong route for AirTran, it got even worse.

Q4 2011 MKE-DEN / DEN-MKE load factor

69.5% Southwest
52.8% AirTran

Sending more sets on MKE-DEN on AirTran might not have been much better than DAY-DEN or CAK-DEN without code share.

Didn't WN ABANDON their former MO?? What's up with these announcements??

Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 8): Didn't WN ABANDON their former MO?? What's up with these announcements??

MO?

These announcements are happening because WN/FL has not been able to get a code-share going. So WN is going in to replace FL metal into WN "large stations" while FL will go in to replace some of WN's metal flying into ATL so connectivity can remain on the same airline from a reservation stand point.

Alex

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 9): MO?

= Modus Operandi. You know, WN used to go in "under the radar" to under-served airports near other more major metro areas. I thought that model had (very sadly) gone the way of the Dodo Bird.

Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 10): = Modus Operandi. You know, WN used to go in "under the radar" to under-served airports near other more major metro areas. I thought that model had (very sadly) gone the way of the Dodo Bird.

I know what it meant I didn't know how that applied to WN, because the small market stuff still continued even now...

ECP, GSP, CHS, are all small markets by defintion and not the "big city/player stations".

Not to mention did you expect WN to drop every "small city" FL operated?

Alex

DAY-DEN and CAK-DEN look like clear shots at F9. I can also understand CAK-MDW as MDW is the WN gateway to the upper mid-west. Currently, FL does CAK-ATL, CAK-BOS, CAK-LGA, CAK-TPA, CAK-MKE, CAK-RSW, and CAK-MCO. The WN press release indicates they may or may not integrate these into their future service. I'm not sure why they didn't start CAK/DAY-BWI (WN's east coast gateway), or CAK/DAY-BNA (WN's southeast gateway). What I find interesting is that it looks like WN will keep both CLE and CAK, even though they are about 50 road miles apart. (Other than FLL and PBI, is this the closest two WN cities?)

Quoting F9Fan (Reply 12): I'm not sure why they didn't start CAK/DAY-BWI (WN's east coast gateway), or CAK/DAY-BNA (WN's southeast gateway).

I'm sure these will be announced (and more) in May when WN opens up their schedule into February 2013.

I have created an Official Sked Change for WN to discuss ALL CITIES and not to keep DAY/DSM separate.

Here is the Link--

Official: WN Makes Sked Changes, Adds DSM/DAY/CAK (by Atrude777 Apr 2 2012 in Civil Aviation)

Alex

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 4): A lot of WN's West Cities into ATL will have some flights go back to Air Tran due to the integration issues with the code-shares.

What integration issues are WN having? I was looking forward to possibly flying the nonstop from LAX to ATL once it starts up in June, I hope it doesn't go back to FL!

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 11): ECP, GSP, CHS, are all small markets by defintion and not the "big city/player stations".

Smaller stations, yes - but not necessarily a backdoor way into larger markets - that's what I was talking about.  

[Edited 2012-04-03 04:42:54]

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 11): ECP, GSP, CHS, are all small markets by defintion and not the "big city/player stations".

ECP got service when WN was paid quite handsomely to do it by St Joe corp (the land developers).

The agreement covers 2 years and it remains to be seen if WN sticks there when the contract expires.

Quoting skymiler (Reply 17): The agreement covers 2 years and it remains to be seen if WN sticks there when the contract expires.

They will be out of there in a flash.

Cheers

Mike

Quoting skymiler (Reply 17): ECP got service when WN was paid quite handsomely to do it by St Joe corp (the land developers).

Paid quite handsomely? Not during the first year of the contract, they weren't

St. Joe off the hook to Southwest, for now
March 12, 2011

Quote: The St. Joe Company is off the hook to Southwest Airlines, at least for now. The land development company has released its 2010 annual financial report and will not have to reimburse Southwest, in accordance with a deal worked out to bring the low-cost carrier to Bay County. Southwest began operating daily non-stop flights to four major cities from the Northwest Florida Beaches International Airport (ECP) in May. “There were no reimbursements to Southwest Airlines during 2010; no losses were incurred per the agreed upon services,” according to St. Joe’s required 10-K filing with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission. St. Joe agreed to reimburse Southwest for revenue losses for at least two years in order to snag the carrier’s much-ballyhooed decision last year to operate from ECP.

That was a year ago. I don't know if St. Joe has released their 2011 annual financial report yet.

LoneStarMike

when are they going to start replacing all FL in LGA???

Since this thread is still running, I'll ask my questions here too: is it correct, then, that DAY and CAK will have both WN and FL aircraft running at their FL stations? That means they'll need to get WN number-boarding posts installed in their departure lounges?

Also, does this mean that other FL stations that have flights into big WN stations will see WN metal replacing FL metal before the airlines are integrated? Will ROC and PWM's BWI flights, for instance, become WN metal? And does this suggest that these stations could get MDW flights before integration, whenever that will be?

Jim

Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 21): DAY and CAK will have both WN and FL aircraft running at their FL stations? That means they'll need to get WN number-boarding posts installed in their departure lounges?

Yes...

Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 21): Also, does this mean that other FL stations that have flights into big WN stations will see WN metal replacing FL metal before the airlines are integrated?

You are seeing this with CAK and DAY so it is likely you will see WN Metal flights from FL stations into big WN Cities.

Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 21): And does this suggest that these stations could get MDW flights before integration, whenever that will be?

It is likely, but who knows. DAY only got DEN for instance and not MDW.

Alex

Due to the fact that there were three different threads on essentially the same topic, two threads unfortunately had to be locked. Regretfully the three threads cannot be merged as one, but the two locked threads are still available for reference purposes.

Southwest Will Operate DSM-MDW Instead Of FL

Official: WN Makes Sked Changes, Adds DSM/DAY/CAK


Thank you for your understanding.

Rgds

SA7700

Maybe WN didn't want to add DAY-MDW right now so that people from DAY will still use FL to fly eastbound and vice versa. However, CAK is accessible from the east on WN via its flights from MDW. The website drop down doesn't associate CLE and CAK together as alternates like EWR to LGA and ISP.

Quoting swatpamike (Reply 18): Quoting skymiler (Reply 17): The agreement covers 2 years and it remains to be seen if WN sticks there when the contract expires. They will be out of there in a flash. Cheers Mike

Is two years even long enough to establish a decent presence in a market? I'm thinking of loyalty and consistent business.

Waiting patiently here in GRR for WN integration route news............ I predict WN initially will add MDW (2x) and DEN (1x) to GRR based on what's happening in CAK, DAY, and DSM.

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 1): DAY-DEN will begin on Southwest Metal.

Can this route really support three airlines? I would of much rather seen DAY-MDW.

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 4): New STL-ECP

Makes perfect sense - the midwest in particular likes the panhandle and western parts of Florida. A lot of spring breakers up here in Iowa almost always choose ECP.

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 3): DSM-MDW

Can't help but smile every time I read this. ATA use to fly DSM-MDW for both O&D and connections - looking at the morning and evening flights to/from CID and DSM to ORD and you will see lots of business travelers in suits and what not. Iowa seems to have a lot of business ties to Chicago.

Quoting tjwgrr (Reply 26): I predict WN initially will add MDW (2x) and DEN (1x) to GRR based on what's happening in CAK, DAY, and DSM.

I don't see any reason GRR can't support MDW and a couple other flights. Hopefully you will get up and running on WN soon.

Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 19): St. Joe off the hook to Southwest, for now

I must admit I would of bet wrong in guessing WN would of needed at least some subsidies to keep going. Kudos to ECP and WN for working out so well.

Anyone poke around to find out about this statement: "We’re also implementing similar service swaps in numerous markets effective September 30, in addition to our new service at Des Moines. "

Quoting ADent (Reply 28): "We’re also implementing similar service swaps in numerous markets effective September 30, in addition to our new service at Des Moines. "

Hinting at moving ATL-ORF/SDF to FL metal possibly?

Quoting sdoyon (Reply 29): Hinting at moving ATL-ORF/SDF to FL metal possibly?

The way things are looking, WN could replace all FL non-ATL flying before the code-share comes online while FL maintains a viable ATL hub until such time as the two systems can realistically integrate. FL is already gaining back some ATL frequencies as it appears that without the online connectivity the two networks must stand alone at this point.

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 30): The way things are looking, WN could replace all FL non-ATL flying before the code-share comes online while FL maintains a viable ATL hub until such time as the two systems can realistically integrate. FL is already gaining back some ATL frequencies as it appears that without the online connectivity the two networks must stand alone at this point.

It probably isn't a bad idea to switch all non-ATL flying to WN. The trick is any Non-ATL international flying.

Well, with the WN/FL codeshare delayed more or less indefinitely, they really had no choice.

This move should resolve most, if not all, of the inevitable issues with the disparate FL and WN [domestic] networks. After all, it seems everyone, from network planning up to the top dogs that signed off on their new routes, had expected the codeshare to be in place by this summer. But, some of those new international routes - which, for the time being, MUST be operated by FL - could be in big trouble. Thanks to strong O&D, stuff like FLL-SJU, SNA-SJD, and even SAT-MEX will probably be fine, but I have serious doubts about stuff like SNA-MEX and AUS-CUN, where they were probably counting on WN feed and FFers. After all, "Air Tran" is a completely unfamiliar brand when it comes to those in SNA and AUS...

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 3): CAK-MDW CAK-DEN

Looks like the good folks of CAK will have access to just about the entire WN network with these routes. Then again, these westward services should nicely complement, rather than have an extremely adverse affect upon, the (completely independent/unaffiliated) FL routes to popular points in the East and South.

For now, CAK still has its FL nonstops to BOS and LGA. I wonder when those scarce LGA slots will be reassigned for a more important WN market (BNA, ATL, HOU, and/or MCI, if I had to guess), at which time a one-stop/connection option via BWI will probably then have to suffice. Ultimately, I wonder how F9 will fare with this strong new competition, and it will be very interesting to see how WN is able to make CAK work alongside CLE. As it stands today, CLE appears to be one of the smallest and weakest stations (outside of Texas) for WN, right up there with JAN, IAD, and PBI  . But, if UA does decide to dehub CLE, that could all change overnight.

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 3): DAY-DEN

This is a first - a WN station with just one daily flight! Moreover, there is no access to a vast chunk of the canyon blue network (WN typically offers every market it serves the ability to reach virtually every other station in 2 stops or less). I'm shocked that they aren't adding MDW-DAY, though I am sure that must be coming sooner or later. Again, it will be interesting to see how F9 does with a strong WN competitor in the picture - perhaps that airline could shift their Southwest Ohio ops to a major airport that is desperate for LCC service? I also wonder if WN might be looking at CVG now that they have plenty of room for new tenants. It is, after all, by far the largest [domestic] market that it doesn't (or soon won't, via FL cities slated to get their service soon) fly to....

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 3): DSM-MDW

Good - now they can finally start making some money at DSM. It seems that, via these 2 daily MDW flights, one can reach almost any city in the WN network! As we all know, those mainline MKE-DSM flights may well have had the lowest load factors (on rock bottom fares, mind you) of any route in the country! I would have never expected DSM to be the first FL-only market to fully transition over to canyon blue service, but given the way they were serving it they probably didn't want to stomach another notoriously weak fall/winter period of heavy losses. Surely there will be more flights to come, as WN is not in the business of serving any station with just 2 daily flights. I wonder how long it will be before they give F9 a headache on the DEN-DSM route? Beyond DEN, I bet we could see nonstops to STL (a better way to reach Texas and Florida) and PHX, maybe even LAS.

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 4): New PDX-AUS

Very exciting! First AUS got ATL, then CUN, and I daresay DCA, now this! They sure are doing quite well with new WN/FL service. As for PDX, they keep seeing AS/QX expansion, as well as F9 to COS, VX, and now this! They are doing quite well on the new service front too. Always nice to see smaller airports doing well. Give me a connection through the superb PDX or AUS facilities any day over the chaos that is DFW or SFO.

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 4): New STL-ECP

Perhaps ECP isn't the dog that we thought it was, and perhaps it does have a future in the WN network even with PNS entering the picture. After all, if this airline can pull off FNT/DTW and CLE/CAK, why not serve two popular gateways to the redneck riviera, errr Florida Panhandle?

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 4): A lot of WN's West Cities into ATL will have some flights go back to Air Tran due to the integration issues with the code-shares.

Yes, it seems like their merger strategy has shifted from slowly shifting various bits and pieces of FL over to WN (a few routes from MKE here, a few from ATL there, all while adding new p2p routes between major WN markets and FL-only cities and eliminating overlapping capacity, mostly out of BWI and Florida) to managing two fully viable, profitable independent WN and FL networks.

With the need to keep FL's hub at ATL more or less intact until the codeshare happens, it looks like WN has set its sights on converting their much smaller hub at MKE over to canyon blue metal. Honestly, I didn't think MKE had any kind of bright future under WN, but low and behold it looks like it will be a pretty sizable operation (~30-40 flights) after all. Then again, in addition to the relatively populous local market, MKE serves Chicago's wealthy north suburbs much more effectively than MDW. Also, there is plenty of room at MKE, unlike WN's primary Midwestern hubs at MDW (having more or less reached operational capacity, it now experiences frequent delays) and STL (lack of additional terminal space, with all existing gates already heavily utilized). So, perhaps they will direct as much connecting traffic through MKE as they can, so that they can better serve higher-yielding O&D through MDW and STL.

At MKE, WN has already picked up the STL, DEN, and FLL routes, with LAX, SEA, and LGA due to start in August. The only FL-only routes from MKE left are ATL, BOS, RSW, MSP, SFO, DCA, along with seasonal MSY and CUN. Obviously MKE-ATL will ultimately be a WN route, and I bet they keep MKE-BOS since they now have it all to themselves. They'd be foolish to drop MKE-RSW given the extreme popularity of Southwest Florida with the Midwestern crowd, and I think it will stay now that WN seems to be much more interested in RSW than years past (what with their new seasonal Spring Break nonstops). It will be interesting to see if they decide to keep MKE-SFO and MKE-MSP. If they do, I bet WN would be willing to try other stuff from MKE like BNA and perhaps even PHL. If not, then MKE probably shouldn't expect to get any more luv than it already has. As for MKE-DCA, it is probably a goner due to a lack of slots at DCA. WN will almost certainly add MDW-DCA, probably with the same 5x daily frequency that they added MDW-LGA and MDW-BOS with. But, seeing as how WN loves to make life for F9 incredibly difficult, I wouldn't put it past them to come up with a way to keep 1x or 2x daily MKE-DCA to run them off that route.

Beyond ATL and MKE, it is interesting to see WN opening three stations well below their typical minimum threshold of 6-8 daily flights. Moreover, out of DAY they won't be offering comprehensive network access! Perhaps this opens the door for WN to start adding other FL domestic markets in a similar fashion. They could add stuff like MDW-CLT, HOU-MEM, or DAL-ICT while keeping the existing FL services intact for the time being...

I just hope WN restarts MKE-OMA. I'd love to have another non-stop option besides the dinky EMB145 on F9. (or an 8 hour drive)

Quoting iowaman (Reply 27): I must admit I would of bet wrong in guessing WN would of needed at least some subsidies to keep going. Kudos to ECP and WN for working out so well.

They don't call it the Redneck Riviera for no reason. And by what the traditional clientele of WN has been, they go hand in hand, IMO.

-DiamondFlyer

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 34): They don't call it the Redneck Riviera for no reason. And by what the traditional clientele of WN has been, they go hand in hand, IMO.

Well, Panama City Beach is a great beach destination, but I don't know that Southwest's traditional passengers - the business travelers whose patronage has supported the airline from its inception - favor that over any other place.

I used to love going to Panama City Beach with my family, but all the small block-built hotels were torn down to build high-rise condos, many of which sit largely empty. The nail in the coffin for me was the closure of the old airport, and the resultant killing-off an excellent FBO. Not going back.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 32): For now, CAK still has its FL nonstops to BOS and LGA. I wonder when those scarce LGA slots will be reassigned for a more important WN market (BNA, ATL, HOU, and/or MCI, if I had to guess),

WN has already re-assigned some of the LGA slots to STL and DEN. Also CAK still has FL to ATL, MCO and TPA (SRQ goes away).

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 32): This is a first - a WN station with just one daily flight! Moreover, there is no access to a vast chunk of the canyon blue network (WN typically offers every market it serves the ability to reach virtually every other station in 2 stops or less).

Not needed out of DAY. WN can serve DAY via DEN via the west, while Air Tran serves DAY via the East and South, by way of BWI and ATL. WN/FL completely covers the network out of DAY by DEN, BWI and ATL. DEN serves every single city west of MDW, whereas MDW does not. MDW lacks n/s service to BOI, GEG, BUR and even TUL, where DEN has n/s to all of them.

Alex

Quoting rj777 (Reply 33): I just hope WN restarts MKE-OMA. I'd love to have another non-stop option besides the dinky EMB145 on F9.

Just drive down to MDW - problem solved. Its a much more convenient airport than MKE anyways.

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 11): ECP, GSP, CHS, are all small markets by defintion and not the "big city/player stations".

Those routes started with the usual WN strategy of 6-8 daily flights.

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 3): CAK-DEN DAY-DEN

Even the biggest southwest haters on here have to be impressed by what southwest is pulling off and tying to pull off out of Denver. Personally i think its nothing short of amazing to go from nothing to pulling off cities like DEN-DTW, BOS, PVD, MHT BDL, CAK and DAY etc. If i were frontier or united i would be very worried they are becoming a beast at DEN and pulling off and commiting to impressive cities. I cant imagine DEN is making them money but it doesnt seem like they care all the regular rules are broken for Denver its full force ahead

Does WN plan on adding ATL from BDL, MHT and PVD?

Quoting John (Reply 40): Does WN plan on adding ATL from BDL, MHT and PVD?

In talking with the airport administration (at least at MHT), it sounded like they were hoping to get a direct flight--in order to show that the demand was there--before WN (or FL at this point) adds ATL as a non-stop destination.

[Edited 2012-04-04 06:36:47]

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 38): Those routes started with the usual WN strategy of 6-8 daily flights.

Correct you are, ECP started with 8 and CHS/GSP started with 7.

Quoting John (Reply 40): Does WN plan on adding ATL from BDL, MHT and PVD?

BDL I might see as a N/S...with BOS already having ATL on Air Tran, I am not sure if MHT/PVD will get a n/s from WN or FL. We'll have to wait and see!

Alex

What a bizarre mess this merger is turning into.

And I don't say mess in a horrible way...just a messy way.

WN to being CAK? No they aren't! They bought an airline that serves the airport and the integration should be taking place. Instead we are going to get a "new city" announcement each time WN goes into a FL city because they can't integrate?

How very bizare.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 43): What a bizarre mess this merger is turning into. And I don't say mess in a horrible way...just a messy way.

Most of this is probably thanks to the issue of the reservation system not being upgrades in the past. They signed an agreement with Sabre in February (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/southwest-airlines-renews-sabre-reservations-151500245.html) to help things along. It'll be nice once it is finally done, but definitely taking a bit longer than many had hoped for.

Rumors rumors rumors..
WN in Nov and Dec will now be taking over service at Key west, Portland Maine, Grand rapids.
Dayton getting 2 MDW flts and 2 BWI flts.
Along with potential 717 replacement the 737-500 retirements have been pushed back until 2015.
the xtra 25 planes give WN alot of wiggle room until code share bugs get worked out.
enjoy wnfg...

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 45): the 737-500 retirements have been pushed back until 2015.

Wonderful news-----I love these little 122 seat jewels !!

Anyone think that ATL to both ORF and SDF might be FL now not WN?

Also how is AUS-ATL doing LF wise. That might be a market that should go FL

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 45): 737-500 retirements have been pushed back until 2015. the xtra 25 planes give WN alot of wiggle room until code share bugs get worked out. enjoy wnfg...

How much service life do the 735s have left in them?