WN -800 Familiarization Runs 4/4-4/5 BWI/PHL/MDW

barney captain · Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:24 am

Sorry I didn't get this out sooner....but she is currently in BWI, scheduled to leave at 0700 on 4/5 as flight 8725 to PHL.

4/4 schedule was;

8725 DAL-RSW 0600-0945
8726 RSW-FLL 1135-1235
8727 FLL-BWI 1405-1710

4/5 is set to be;

8725 BWI-PHL 0700-0730
8726 PHL-MDW 1000-1055
8727 MDW-DAL 1300-1500

Happy spotting

[Edited 2012-04-04 17:30:19]

777fan · Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:57 am

So does this confirm that BWI will serve as the first -800's first base? I have some WN travel scheduled for the not-too-distant future and would love to improve my chances of avoiding the -300s that seem to have invaded these parts as of late.

777fan

71Zulu · Thu Apr 05, 2012 1:14 am

Hey Barney, can any pilot fly it?

Any cockpit differences from the -700?

usair330 · Thu Apr 05, 2012 1:19 am

PHL-SJU on the WN 737-800. LoL

WNCrew · Thu Apr 05, 2012 1:39 am

Quoting 777fan (Reply 1):

So does this confirm that BWI will serve as the first -800's first base?

Yes, along with MDW. The initial routes for April are BWI-RSW/LAX and MDW-FLL.... expanding from there throughout the system.

seven3seven · Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:33 am

Planes dont have bases

barney captain · Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:39 am

Quoting 71Zulu (Reply 2):
Hey Barney, can any pilot fly it?

Any cockpit differences from the -700?

Yes. We are all cross-utilized.

And yes, but only minor.

wnflyguy · Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:12 am

Rumor is WN is also scheduling one day noise and takeoff test at SNA in MAY or JUNE. Wnfg

777fan · Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:27 am

Quoting WNCrew (Reply 4):
Yes, along with MDW. The initial routes for April are BWI-RSW/LAX and MDW-FLL.... expanding from there throughout the system.

Cool, thanks.

Quoting seven3seven (Reply 5):
Planes dont have bases

Yes, I understand that, but the information in the OP seems to indicate the new aircraft will be based out of BWI where WN obviously has a significant presence. Feel free to substitute "operate out of", "deploy from", "frequently RON", or any number of alternatives, point is you're initially more likely to encounter the new aircraft at WN's bases, er, hubs, um, focus cities (?!).

777fan

boslax · Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:13 pm

The May schedule shows (5) 737-800's operating with the following routings (daily utlization in hours in paranthees)

PHX-BWI-PHX-BWI (13.5)
MDW-FLL-MDW-FLL-BWI (11.7)
BWI-LAX-BWI (10.8)
BWI-PHX-MSY-PHX (11.4)
BWI-RSW-PHL-RSW-MDW (11.3)

Silver1SWA · Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:37 pm

Quoting seven3seven (Reply 5):
Planes dont have bases

Don't they techincally have primary maintenance bases?

eastern747 · Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:01 pm

Boy do I feel stupid with this question. What's the big deal with the 800? Please don't bust me. Just another 737.

TSS · Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:11 pm

Quoting EASTERN747 (Reply 11):
What's the big deal with the 800? Please don't bust me. Just another 737.

1. More seating capacity than other WN 737s;
2. Different aft galley/lavatory layout than other WN 737s;
3. First use of beverage carts by WN F/As.

sdoyon · Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:13 pm

Quoting TSS (Reply 12):
1. More seating capacity than other WN 737s;
2. Different aft galley/lavatory layout than other WN 737s;
3. First use of beverage carts by WN F/As.

In addition to lower CASM, more seats in slot controlled airports, and the ability to fly to Hawai'i.

solarflyer22 · Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:43 pm

Quoting EASTERN747 (Reply 11):
What's the big deal with the 800? Please don't bust me. Just another 737.

Its a big deal for WN. Its the largest AC they have operated and its about 25 extra seats plus a new flight attendant per flight. It could mean more cheap fase too. If you look at the 737-700, its almost as long as it is wide which means the wing is too big for that body. I've always felt like it looks like a short plane. The 738 is perfectly proportioned.

How do they intend to operate the 738 from MDW? I wondered this after leaving MDW recently where the runway is 1925m?A 738 needs 2400m for full payload so this means they are basically always operating with a fuel/payload penalty?

There is barely enough room at MDW for the 700s so I don't understand how they plan on using that as such a major hub.

The 738 is going to be great from BWI, LAS and other airports with long runways..

timberwolf24 · Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:49 pm

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 14):
How do they intend to operate the 738 from MDW?

The same way ATA did. ATA also operated the 757-200 and 300's from MDW.

flyiguy · Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:55 pm

Quoting sdoyon (Reply 13):
and the ability to fly to Hawai'i.

That has nothing to do with it's ability, but more cost per seat mile. The 737-700 can fly to Hawaii from the weat coast and WN has flown a bird there before for boeing to show Aloha before they put an order in for theirs. The reason that WN never did is because the 700 was never cost effective enough to fly to Hawaii. ATA and Aloha did but we know where they lie now.

Just my 0.02

barney captain · Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:59 pm

Quoting flyiguy (Reply 16):
ATA and Aloha did

I don't believe ATA operated the -700.

DFWHeavy · Thu Apr 05, 2012 6:00 pm

The 738 flying from MDW to anywhere in the Continental USA should never be at or really near MTOW, thus will not have much a problem flying from there. So no, they won't be taking much, if any of a payload hit from MDW.

With that said... the pilot's sure better put that puppy down in the touchdown zone on landing

drerx7 · Thu Apr 05, 2012 6:04 pm

Quoting flyiguy (Reply 16):
and WN has flown a bird there before for boeing to show Aloha before they put an order in for theirs.

AQ used WN 73Gs for their ETOPS certification for their crew and what not - I'm not that well versed in the ETOPS certification process; but that much I do know.

Quoting flyiguy (Reply 16):
ATA

Nope, TZ never flew -700s.

flyorski · Thu Apr 05, 2012 6:05 pm

Quoting TSS (Reply 12):

Quoting TSS (Reply 12):

Quoting EASTERN747 (Reply 11):
What's the big deal with the 800? Please don't bust me. Just another 737.

1. More seating capacity than other WN 737s;
2. Different aft galley/lavatory layout than other WN 737s;
3. First use of beverage carts by WN F/As.

In other words.. nothing anyone not on a.net would notice.

KELPkid · Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:02 pm

Quoting TSS (Reply 12):
Quoting EASTERN747 (Reply 11):
What's the big deal with the 800? Please don't bust me. Just another 737.

1. More seating capacity than other WN 737s;
2. Different aft galley/lavatory layout than other WN 737s;
3. First use of beverage carts by WN F/As.

4. Boeing SKY interior with LED lighting

KELPkid · Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:05 pm

Quoting flyorski (Reply 20):
In other words.. nothing anyone not on a.net would notice.

See my previous reply, a.nutters will most definitely notice the sky interior

barney captain · Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:14 pm

My understanding is this is primarily a familiarization run for the agents and rampers who will be working the initial intro in to service - hence the choice of cities visited.

jporterfi · Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:25 pm

Quoting TSS (Reply 12):
First use of beverage carts by WN F/As.

How do WN F/As serve beverages on other 737 aircraft if they don't use beverage carts?

drerx7 · Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:42 pm

Trays

filler

FutureFO · Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:09 pm

Saw it as we were in line to takeoff of 27L in PHL today. Beautiful airplane.

MCOflyer · Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:03 pm

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 19):
Nope, TZ never flew -700s.

They flew 800's.

KH

777fan · Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:18 am

Quoting flyiguy (Reply 16):
ATA and Aloha did but we know where they lie now.

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 27):
Quoting drerx7 (Reply 19):
Nope, TZ never flew -700s.

They flew 800's.

IIRC, TZ ran into payload issues with their -800s to ITO during the wintertime (from OAK; please correct me if I'm wrong) and ironically, they were codesharing with WN at the time. I'm not sure how AQ fared with their -700s on runs to the West Coast; I'm guessing their RASM was as decent as can be, but that they suffered with CASM, particularly when compared to HA who had the comparative luxury of running the 763 with 100+ additional seats. AQ hemorrhaged cash as a result of its 732 inter-island fleet and price-dumping competition at the hands of go!

Regardless, I'm sure WN will figure out a way to make their flights work - they're experts when it comes to sipping fuel, fill planes, and squeezing revenue out of a stone. I can't help but wonder if they'll run some kind of Hawaii-specific snack box or booze offerings for cash. No doubt the wi-fi will be huge on those flights...

777fan

lasmike · Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:23 am

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 14):
How do they intend to operate the 738 from MDW? I wondered this after leaving MDW recently where the runway is 1925m?A 738 needs 2400m for full payload so this means they are basically always operating with a fuel/payload penalty?

There is barely enough room at MDW for the 700s so I don't understand how they plan on using that as such a major hub.

The 738 is going to be great from BWI, LAS and other airports with long runways

The 800's have uprated engines and should have no problems with MDW or SNA. They are scheduled for MDW-West Coast later in the year.

lasmike · Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:27 am

Quoting jporterfi (Reply 24):
How do WN F/As serve beverages on other 737 aircraft if they don't use beverage carts?

FA's take orders on order pads first, make a run through the cabin with snacks/peanuts, then serve the drinks from trays, making a few trips back and forth to the galleys. On 800's, they will still use the drink pads, then bring out half carts to serve the drinks, therefore reducing the amount of trips they need to take to the galleys.

KELPkid · Fri Apr 06, 2012 6:14 pm

Quoting lasmike (Reply 30):
FA's take orders on order pads first, make a run through the cabin with snacks/peanuts, then serve the drinks from trays, making a few trips back and forth to the galleys. On 800's, they will still use the drink pads, then bring out half carts to serve the drinks, therefore reducing the amount of trips they need to take to the galleys.

By half carts, does everyone mean half as wide or half as long? I'm guessing its the former, as one of the reasons WN opposed cart service is because it blocks the aisle while beverage/snack service is going on

usflyguy · Fri Apr 06, 2012 6:55 pm

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 31):

They are square rather than rectangular.

QANTAS747-438 · Fri Apr 06, 2012 8:27 pm

Quoting flyiguy (Reply 16):
WN has flown a bird there before for boeing to show Aloha before they put an order in for theirs.

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 19):
AQ used WN 73Gs for their ETOPS certification for their crew and what not

Yup, it was N709SW.

777STL · Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:20 pm

Half as long, they're same width, the just aren't as long as a regular cart is.

SXDFC · Sat Apr 07, 2012 3:51 am

Quoting flyiguy (Reply 16):
WN has flown a bird there before for boeing to show Aloha before they put an order in for theirs.

Was A/C 709 flown there by WN pilots?

QANTAS747-438 · Sat Apr 07, 2012 5:30 am

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 35):
Was A/C 709 flown there by WN pilots?

I don't think so. I'm pretty sure it was flown by Boeing pilots since a -700 had never flown something like that before.

wnflyguy · Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:53 pm

Rumor has it that the 800's are having weight and balance issues with the open seating. Any truth to this rumor? Thanks. Wnfg

phxa340 · Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:30 pm

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 37):
Rumor has it that the 800's are having weight and balance issues with the open seating. Any truth to this rumor? Thanks. Wnfg

I am wondering how Ryanair has been handling these issues as they have been using the 800 for quite some time and also have an open seating policy (If this is actually an issue for SWA)

flyiguy · Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:55 pm

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 37):
Rumor has it that the 800's are having weight and balance issues with the open seating. Any truth to this rumor? Thanks. Wnfg

We are hearing on the ground side it has to do with the extra weight of the Wi-Fi pod because its more towards the tail of the aircraft. Instead of the standard nose heavy -700s 60% forward 40% back or the 50/50 split on the -300s/-500s we are being told to ask the ops agents how they want it loaded 10 minutes prior to the aircraft landing.

Silver1SWA · Sun Apr 08, 2012 12:59 am

Quoting flyiguy (Reply 39):

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 37):
Rumor has it that the 800's are having weight and balance issues with the open seating. Any truth to this rumor? Thanks. Wnfg

We are hearing on the ground side it has to do with the extra weight of the Wi-Fi pod because its more towards the tail of the aircraft. Instead of the standard nose heavy -700s 60% forward 40% back or the 50/50 split on the -300s/-500s we are being told to ask the ops agents how they want it loaded 10 minutes prior to the aircraft landing.

I figured there would be weight and balance issues. One thing that wasn't covered in the 5 minute training video is, I've heard from coworkers who worked on -800s at other carriers is you have to be careful not to have too much weight in the back at any time during off and on loading or you risk the aircraft tipping back onto the tail. You need to load front and back in a careful sequence. Can anyone with experience with the 737-800 confirm this?

DfwRevolution · Sun Apr 08, 2012 1:20 am

Quoting flyiguy (Reply 39):
We are hearing on the ground side it has to do with the extra weight of the Wi-Fi pod because its more towards the tail of the aircraft. Instead of the standard nose heavy -700s 60% forward 40% back or the 50/50 split on the -300s/-500s we are being told to ask the ops agents how they want it loaded 10 minutes prior to the aircraft landing.

The Row 44 module is 150 lbs. There is no way the balance between the 737-700 and -800 is that sensitive to the weight of a single medium-sized adult.

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 40):
I've heard from coworkers who worked on -800s at other carriers is you have to be careful not to have too much weight in the back at any time during off and on loading or you risk the aircraft tipping back onto the tail. You need to load front and back in a careful sequence. Can anyone with experience with the 737-800 confirm this?

I find it really hard to believe we've never heard (until now) that the 737-800 requires such careful loading when it has been in operation for 10+ years. Surely this issue would have been raised when WN was evaluating the aircraft.

Silver1SWA · Sun Apr 08, 2012 2:31 am

Quoting dfwrevolution (Reply 41):
I find it really hard to believe we've never heard (until now) that the 737-800 requires such careful loading when it has been in operation for 10+ years. Surely this issue would have been raised when WN was evaluating the aircraft.

I agree. Like I said I heard it from someone who worked on them at another carrier. Maybe that was just that company's standard procedure.

yeelep · Sun Apr 08, 2012 2:15 pm

Quoting flyiguy (Reply 16):
Quoting sdoyon (Reply 13):
and the ability to fly to Hawai'i.

That has nothing to do with it's ability, but more cost per seat mile. The 737-700 can fly to Hawaii from the weat coast and WN has flown a bird there before for boeing to show Aloha before they put an order in for theirs. The reason that WN never did is because the 700 was never cost effective enough to fly to Hawaii.

One of the big deals about the -800 is as sdoyon pointed out, the ability to fly to Hawaii, or more specifically the ability to fly passengers to Hawaii. The WN -700's were not configured for ETOPS, the -800's are. Of course they could have modified or had them delivered for ETOPS, but as you rightly said, it wasn't worth it for them

SXDFC · Sun Apr 08, 2012 5:57 pm

Quoting flyiguy (Reply 16):
WN has flown a bird there before for boeing to show Aloha before they put an order in for theirs. The reason that WN never did is because the 700 was never cost effective enough to fly to Hawaii.

Meant to say this earlier, but would be cool if anyone has any pictures of when this bird flew into Hawaii..

QANTAS747-438 · Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:19 am

Quoting dfwrevolution (Reply 41):
The Row 44 module is 150 lbs. There is no way the balance between the 737-700 and -800 is that sensitive to the weight of a single medium-sized adult.

Exactly. There's no way that the wi-fi has anything to do with it.

Quoting dfwrevolution (Reply 41):
I find it really hard to believe we've never heard (until now) that the 737-800 requires such careful loading when it has been in operation for 10+ years. Surely this issue would have been raised when WN was evaluating the aircraft.

Again, I agree totally. I do believe that the open seating policy must have something to do with it, but that's just my guess. I'd estimate that the weight and balance issues are temporary and that WN is doing all this to apease the FAA until WN can prove that they can properly do the W&B.

FlightPlan06 · Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:17 pm

So does anybody know how the first Rev flight went today? I believe it was today 4/11 MDW-FLL

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