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G500
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Bloomberg Newsweek Gives Jetblue A Beating

Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:39 pm

interesting read, I copied a paragraph

"once high flying JetBlue returns to earth"...

"With founder Neeleman long gone and shares 80 percent off their high, JetBlue now finds itself bereft of much luster. A JetBlue pilot’s midair meltdown on March 27 was the latest in a string of very public mishaps, starting with passengers getting stranded on a plane for up to 11 hours during a February 2007 ice storm and a flight attendant bolting the plane’s exit chute after cursing passengers in August 2010. JetBlue now ranks last among 15 airlines in on-time performance and ninth in customer complaints to the Department of Transportation—three times Southwest Airlines’ (LUV) complaint ratio. The tables have turned. A vastly consolidated airline industry once again favors major carriers with expansive route maps and a preponderance of business travelers—things JetBlue lacks"



the full article is on businessweek.com under "once high flying JetBlue returns to earth"

[Edited 2012-04-08 16:41:40]

[Edited 2012-04-08 16:42:43]
 
planejamie
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RE: Bloomberg Newsweek Gives Jetblue A Beating

Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:38 pm

What a load of BS.

Has anyone failed to point out how popular they are, how these are minor hickups and as for something "starting" in 2007 and having nothing happen for 3 years I feel that they can hardly describe that as a string of public mishaps. Look at AA with the bankruptcy, QF having engine problems all last year, the point I should make here is that no one has died on B6, there's been far worse incidents from 2007 to now (AF for example with the A330 crash), I think Bloomberg needs to naff off, I have no time for their sensationalist crap - with this article they're nearly as bad as the dailymail!
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Bloomberg Newsweek Gives Jetblue A Beating

Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:41 pm

Quoting g500 (Thread starter):
JetBlue now ranks last among 15 airlines in on-time performance and ninth in customer complaints to the Department of Transportation—three times Southwest Airlines’ (LUV) complaint ratio.

Both perhaps related to their hubs in congestion-prone JFK and BOS?

There's a reason HA has the best on-time ranking too, and that also has little or nothing to do with anything the airline does besides route planning.
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chopchop767
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RE: Bloomberg Newsweek Gives Jetblue A Beating

Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:12 pm

Quoting g500 (Thread starter):
JetBlue now ranks last among 15 airlines in on-time performance and ninth in customer complaints to the Department of Transportation

Wow! Even worse that UA, US and AA? I'm surprised that Jetblue has such a high volume of customer disatisfaction. Although, I can't help but think that that might be because people have come to accept marginal service from Jetblue's larger competitors. I flew on them recently for the first time from DCA to BOS and was really impressed with the overall service and comfort in both directions. I realize it's a short flight, but Jetblue was far cheaper and more comfortable than US Airways' shuttle service. That said, Jetblue only has about four flights a day in between the two airports and I bought the tickets only a few days before; had a planned ahead, I probably would have gone w/ US. Nevertheless, Jetblue was a pleasure to fly on.

Quoting g500 (Thread starter):
A vastly consolidated airline industry once again favors major carriers with expansive route maps and a preponderance of business travelers—things JetBlue lacks

Jetblue did seem to have far more leisure travelers on the flights which I took; as opposed to what I generally observe on US's shuttle. Again, with the last minute purchase for Friday evening travel, US was charging almost three times what Jetblue wanted. I was surprised to see such a disparity between the pricing.
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traindoc
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RE: Bloomberg Newsweek Gives Jetblue A Beating

Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:26 pm

The point of the article is to be NEGATIVE! They mention that the stock price is down 80% from its' peak. Then they use three meaningless stories to justify their point of view. None of those incidents has anything to do with the stock price. The biggest factor for ANY airlines stock price is the price of jet fuel, which is affecting all airlines.

I agree that this is crappy journalism. By the way, I have never flown Jetblue and do not own stock in the airline.
 
washingtonian
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RE: Bloomberg Newsweek Gives Jetblue A Beating

Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:29 pm

Quoting chopchop767 (Reply 3):
That said, Jetblue only has about four flights a day in between the two airports and I bought the tickets only a few days before; had a planned ahead,

This is not true. They launched DCA-BOS with seven daily nonstops, and recently announed an additional three daily nonstops, bringing the total number to ten.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Bloomberg Newsweek Gives Jetblue A Beating

Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:58 pm

Quoting g500 (Thread starter):
A vastly consolidated airline industry once again favors major carriers with expansive route maps and a preponderance of business travelers—things JetBlue lacks

They've publicly stated they're a leisure carrier in NYC and a 'business' carrier in BOS, with fairly limited opportunities in either and seemingly unlimited competition in both. There's the problem, not the 'public mishaps' which have little to do with anything other than PR.
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STT757
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RE: Bloomberg Newsweek Gives Jetblue A Beating

Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:01 pm

Just flew B6 for the first time a month ago, flew down with my Wife and Cousins to FLL from EWR for a Wedding. I really enjoyed the experience, except the delays leaving EWR. Will definitely fly them again, I just wish they could grab a couple more slots at EWR for LAS.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
tommy767
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RE: Bloomberg Newsweek Gives Jetblue A Beating

Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:08 pm

B6 is a great airline. Ask anyone -- the everyday flyer loves Jet Blue.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
codc10
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RE: Bloomberg Newsweek Gives Jetblue A Beating

Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:15 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 9):
B6 is a great airline. Ask anyone -- the everyday flyer loves Jet Blue.

It's true. Even with recent issues, B6's image is probably the best amongst all US carriers. It has service throughout the country, so people in most regions have heard of them, and it lacks the "low-rent" connotation of Southwest (not that I subscribe to it, but that's reality, for better or worse).
 
tommy767
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RE: Bloomberg Newsweek Gives Jetblue A Beating

Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:48 pm

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 10):

Exactly. Especially nowadays when so many people are quick to jump on the Anti American and United trains. Southwest is actually getting a reputation for being "too expensive" in certain cases.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Bloomberg Newsweek Gives Jetblue A Beating

Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:51 pm

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 10):
Even with recent issues, B6's image is probably the best amongst all US carriers.
Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 9):
B6 is a great airline. Ask anyone -- the everyday flyer loves Jet Blue.

This is not what the article is about. It's about B6' limited future prospects in an industry where size matters.
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OB1504
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RE: Bloomberg Newsweek Gives Jetblue A Beating

Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:59 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 9):
B6 is a great airline. Ask anyone -- the everyday flyer loves Jet Blue.

Agreed. When I worked for a competing airline, dissatisfied customers would overwhelmingly ask for directions to the JetBlue counter (as opposed to other airlines) when we couldn't fulfill their (often impossible) requests. Their crew members were always pleasures to check in when they non-revved with us, too.
 
phxa340
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RE: Bloomberg Newsweek Gives Jetblue A Beating

Mon Apr 09, 2012 3:04 pm

I think for the leisure traveler this is hands down the best airline except for maybe Virgin America. For someone like myself that needs a vast network across the US (including the midwest which Jetblue lacks) I need a major. This article is just opinion and a poor thought out one at that.
 
codc10
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RE: Bloomberg Newsweek Gives Jetblue A Beating

Mon Apr 09, 2012 3:11 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 12):

This is not what the article is about. It's about B6' limited future prospects in an industry where size matters.

I didn't feel like going hunting for the article without a link on the original post, and I was just responding to a comment another user made about JetBlue's reputation.

Of course, wide-scale customer perception of a carrier is often a lagging indicator of fundamental issues, and it is academic that smaller carriers like B6 will have trouble competing in a consolidating industry, even with a codeshares.

The mantra is rapidly becoming, "Network first, network last, network always."
 
tommy767
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RE: Bloomberg Newsweek Gives Jetblue A Beating

Mon Apr 09, 2012 3:42 pm

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 13):
Agreed. When I worked for a competing airline, dissatisfied customers would overwhelmingly ask for directions to the JetBlue counter (as opposed to other airlines) when we couldn't fulfill their (often impossible) requests. Their crew members were always pleasures to check in when they non-revved with us, too.

It's pretty incredible what they've done. Terminal 5 at JFK is fantastic and their domination in all the leisure markets from there deserves praise. The only thing that I think in the long run might be more significant is B6's grasp in the business market at Logan Airport. The fact that AA, DL, US, and UA all have lost ground there to B6 over the last 10 years is quite astounding.

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 14):
I think for the leisure traveler this is hands down the best airline except for maybe Virgin America. For someone like myself that needs a vast network across the US (including the midwest which Jetblue lacks) I need a major. This article is just opinion and a poor thought out one at that.

Except Virgin America is too trendy for it's own good.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
airbazar
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RE: Bloomberg Newsweek Gives Jetblue A Beating

Mon Apr 09, 2012 3:45 pm

Quoting traindoc (Reply 4):
The point of the article is to be NEGATIVE! They mention that the stock price is down 80% from its' peak. Then they use three meaningless stories to justify their point of view. None of those incidents has anything to do with the stock price. The biggest factor for ANY airlines stock price is the price of jet fuel, which is affecting all airlines.

I'll start by saying, it's crap journlism too.

I think the customer complaints are mostly because B6 started out being too much of a good thing: taking really good care of their customers, offering a nice flying experience, and providing a cool and hip product. All of that has gone away or wore out and B6 no longer stands above the rest, for the most part: fares aren't exactly cheaper, they charge for bags, blankets, food, etc, they operate out of a congested hub.
So while passengers expect crap from the legacies and don't complain as much about it when they get it, they expect better from B6 and will be more inclined to complain when they don't get it. That's my opinion.
 
phxa340
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RE: Bloomberg Newsweek Gives Jetblue A Beating

Mon Apr 09, 2012 3:50 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 16):
Except Virgin America is too trendy for it's own good

While JetBlue is profitable and Virgin is not , I fully expect Virgin to be profitable soon based on their improving financials. All things being equal if AA or US offers a R/T ticket for 300 and Virgin is 300 as well - I believe their trendiness will earn more business likewise for Jetblue.
 
gothamspotter
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RE: Bloomberg Newsweek Gives Jetblue A Beating

Mon Apr 09, 2012 3:52 pm

Quoting N623JB (Reply 6):
yea...and theyre racist ground op crewmembers...they got to clean up their act.

Go on...
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Bloomberg Newsweek Gives Jetblue A Beating

Mon Apr 09, 2012 3:58 pm

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 18):
I fully expect Virgin to be profitable soon based on their improving financials.

They've gotten worse, not improved

Quoting airbazar (Reply 17):
I'll start by saying, it's crap journlism too.

OK has anyone read the article? 
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phxa340
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RE: Bloomberg Newsweek Gives Jetblue A Beating

Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:16 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 20):

A 37% increase in revenue from 10 to 11. Granted I know their financials have deteriorated since and they are from last year but I thought this was due partly to capital expenditures for new A320 aircraft and everyone is hurting right now from high fuel prices.

http://www.virginamerica.com/press-r...uarter-2011-Financial-Results.html
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Bloomberg Newsweek Gives Jetblue A Beating

Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:21 pm

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 21):
A 37% increase in revenue from 10 to 11

Sure, but their net income is 25% bigger, in the wrong direction. I think pretty much every carrier other than AMR made money in 2011, however.
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jetbluefan1
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RE: Bloomberg Newsweek Gives Jetblue A Beating

Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:32 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 17):
fares aren't exactly cheaper, they charge for bags, blankets, food, etc,

Check your facts. JetBlue is one of only 2 US airlines not to charge for a first bag, and one of a handful to offer free snacks. These things matter when fares are comparable to competitors.

Flew VX this past week JFK--->LAS. Great experience overall with very pleasant staff, but still had to pay $25 to check in a bag, and refused to pay $8 for a cheese platter.

Flew F9 on the way back (LAS-MKE-LGA)...unprofessional crew (especially on the redeye...they woke me up to give me a fresh baked cookie...wtf?!), $20 to check in a bag, crap snacks for sale.

The only reason I didn't fly B6 is because the cheapest flights were at times that didn't work for me. If I had, I would have saved the baggage fee bruising and wouldn't have felt raped for trying to munch on a small snack.
 
phxa340
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RE: Bloomberg Newsweek Gives Jetblue A Beating

Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:33 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 22):

Ah gotcha, I was trying to find more figures besides the rosey one that Virgin gives us. I am rooting for them but without improved financials I agree with you ... I don't see long term viability. Jet Blue I see as having a more solid business plan that goes after Business and leisure travelers.

Maverick - I am a new member here but have been following your posts for a while - thanks for all the info over the past couple of years man !
 
777jaah
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RE: Bloomberg Newsweek Gives Jetblue A Beating

Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:26 pm

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 8):
B6 is a great airline. Ask anyone -- the everyday flyer loves Jet Blue.

I've only flown with them JFK-IAD, and had to deal with a weather diversion to RIC. Overall, best experience domestically in the US, only comparable to WN. For sure, will try them in the future, specially now that the fly BOG-FLL.
Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
 
kpitrrat
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RE: Bloomberg Newsweek Gives Jetblue A Beating

Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:28 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 2):

Quoting g500 (Thread starter):
JetBlue now ranks last among 15 airlines in on-time performance and ninth in customer complaints to the Department of Transportation—three times Southwest Airlines’ (LUV) complaint ratio.

Both perhaps related to their hubs in congestion-prone JFK and BOS?

If a cloud is seen within 35 miles of JFK. B6 is at least 45 mins behind system wide.

I think having those two airports as hubs is really detrimental to on time performance and in my opinion not a great idea. However, I guess those are two cities have the type of passenger that B6 is more likely to cater to so it does make sense in that aspect.

[Edited 2012-04-09 10:34:07]
 
stlgph
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RE: Bloomberg Newsweek Gives Jetblue A Beating

Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:40 pm

Quoting traindoc (Reply 4):
The point of the article is to be NEGATIVE! They mention that the stock price is down 80% from its' peak. Then they use three meaningless stories to justify their point of view. None of those incidents has anything to do with the stock price. The biggest factor for ANY airlines stock price is the price of jet fuel, which is affecting all airlines.

I agree that this is crappy journalism. By the way, I have never flown Jetblue and do not own stock in the airline.
Quoting planejamie (Reply 1):
Bloomberg needs to naff off, I have no time for their sensationalist crap

"Crap journalism"?

Clearly you're all airline lovers and not into the ins and outs of markets, business, and investments - especially if you're calling the reporting of their stock being down 80% from the high value as 'crap'. It's actually the truth. If you're the ceo at jetBlue - and you need to go shopping for some backers and creditors ... and your stock is down a whopping 80% from its highest value ... um .... *hello*.

Having talked to several of the company leaders - who, don't get me wrong, they're very nice and all that, but you get the sense the company lacks a big 'grand scheme' strategy for long term growth. They have pretty planes, nice service, and a pleasant experience ... but the pony's carrying a pretty satchel just doing one trick.


And it's Bloomberg Businessweek - not Newsweek.
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frmrCapCadet
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RE: Bloomberg Newsweek Gives Jetblue A Beating

Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:50 pm

Maybe JetBlue will get serious about all this PR and offer the one month tickets once more. HOPE HOPE
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ASA
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RE: Bloomberg Newsweek Gives Jetblue A Beating

Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:53 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 19):
OK has anyone read the article?   

  

The mood here on the thread in much gloomier than the article itself. I don't think it really gave B6 a "beating" as the OP claims. They are simply stating the facts ... and they haven't really claimed that those two "woohoo" crew members have damaged the reputation much. The article also correctly points out the financials and popularity of the airline.

I personally am a big B6 fan. They are certainly one of the best (if not the best) in domestic ... with cleanest and newer airplanes, great snack and beverage collection (as much as one wants) ... and free Live TV. Yes, they don't serve the midwest - they don't have to. They are a northeast focused airline - and they are doing a great job at that.

now, bring on the tomatoes ...   
 
777jaah
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RE: Bloomberg Newsweek Gives Jetblue A Beating

Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:56 pm

Quoting stlgph (Reply 26):
and your stock is down a whopping 80% from its highest value ... um .... *hello*.

Is considered crappy journalism when that's the only reason to say B6 is such a crappy company, and I'm still waiting for similar articles to come and tell us what they think about companies such as Citibank and others that not only have given their stockholdres larger losses, but tazpayers had to pick the bill. That's when it becomes crappy journalism.
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phxa340
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RE: Bloomberg Newsweek Gives Jetblue A Beating

Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:13 pm

I did read the article and find it biased for the simple fact that LUV hit $22 a share in 2000 and now is at about 8 but flirted with 7 for a while. Thats almost 70% off its high. So while yes JBLU is off its high , its not exactly in a unique situation, every airline is in the tank right now. While the article is being accurate, I am not sure why JBLU was singled out.
 
twinotter
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RE: Bloomberg Newsweek Gives Jetblue A Beating

Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:24 pm

Quoting 777jaah (Reply 29):
Is considered crappy journalism when that's the only reason to say B6 is such a crappy company . . .

Actually, the article in question never says JetBlue is a "crappy company".

It does include this quote from William Swelbar, however: "What makes JetBlue kind of hard to integrate is that it’s got its culture, it’s got its cult following."

I don't think anybody can argue with that!
 
wnflyguy
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RE: Bloomberg Newsweek Gives Jetblue A Beating

Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:24 pm

I maybe a WN fly guy but truth be told if JetBlue flys the same route and there's seats open I fly them.
There service is the greatest I feel it's what WN could have been.
Plus they fly to my home Town of LGB. JetBlue is awesome wnfg  
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
bwphoto
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RE: Bloomberg Newsweek Gives Jetblue A Beating

Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:32 pm

My favorable impression of B6 dropped during a recent trip from SLC to BOS via LGB. There were over fifty people waiting at the SLC counter for it to open, late, at 4:40pm for a 6:20pm flight. Long line to check in, haul your own bags to the TSA bag screening machine, then in another long line for security. So much for enough time to enjoy dinner before a red eye. Oh, well - we'll eat at Long Beach. Wrong! The temporary terminal at LGB is more Greyhound than airline, and the only food option air-side were $10 plastic wrapped sandwiches.

Gate agent at LGB must have been suffering from the horrible environment, too - she refused to make any announcement to update the (delayed) flight status. Instead, people had to weave their way up to the gate to find out what was going on then relay the information to fellow passengers as they worked their way back across the room.

To be fair, the cabin crew on all four of our flights ranged from fine to terrific so no complaints there.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Bloomberg Newsweek Gives Jetblue A Beating

Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:02 pm

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 30):
I did read the article and find it biased for the simple fact that LUV hit $22 a share in 2000 and now is at about 8 but flirted with 7 for a while. Thats almost 70% off its high.

   You've just hit on another carrier that is in the exact same situation as B6.

Quoting ASA (Reply 28):
I personally am a big B6 fan.

   I love B6 and what they've done, however I'd argue most of their success has come from being the lowest cost producer in the market. Now they need to find a way to be a high(er) revenue generator, and that's just not going to happen for them in NYC with their network.

Quoting stlgph (Reply 26):
you get the sense the company lacks a big 'grand scheme' strategy for long term growth.

   I wonder if they're hiring the same consultants as WN 
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contrails15
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RE: Bloomberg Newsweek Gives Jetblue A Beating

Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:14 pm

I've been with the company for 10 yrs. Just about as long as its been around. We started out as a mom and pop airline but then I came into work and the company gave out these baseballs that said "welcome to the major leagues". Meaning now we're a major airline. Well major airline comes major problems as with all carriers. The article is a bunch of garbage and this is coming from someone who is by no means a company man. Bloomberg last month was at our HQ and T5 doing a story on the airline. Everyone is an expert and honestly my hand will fall off from all things I want to write. I don't agree with them one bit and could care less about their so called expert opinions.
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chopchop767
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RE: Bloomberg Newsweek Gives Jetblue A Beating

Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:47 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 34):
   I love B6 and what they've done, however I'd argue most of their success has come from being the lowest cost producer in the market. Now they need to find a way to be a high(er) revenue generator, and that's just not going to happen for them in NYC with their network.

In the example that I gave of my experience with B6, they were charging, I think it was about $210 for a one way ticket from DCA to BOS, whereas USAirways was charging, I think it was $375 for a ticket about three days prior to flying. I'm wondering why B6's price wasn't similar? It did convince me to book with them and it couldn't have been a better experience. It was nice when we were boarding and half the plane didn't have 'elite status', like with US. If B6 is adding capacity, I'm wondering if their pricing will be similar?

What about BOS for generating higher revenue? They've taken over almost all of AA's non-hub flights, especially to leisure locations; and as they add capacity to markets like DCA I could see fares being more competitive. Their hub at BOS is pretty diverse.

I don't fly them often, but my experience with B6 was completely different from that which the article painted.
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phxa340
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RE: Bloomberg Newsweek Gives Jetblue A Beating

Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:56 pm

B6 will become a stronger carrier when they expand into more markets. Business travelers usually pay the highest fares but are also typically loyal to a particular carrier that can get them to the most destinations. I find that most of my coworkers choose US over SWA for the one fact that they can use points to redeem for international travel.
 
mogandoCI
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RE: Bloomberg Newsweek Gives Jetblue A Beating

Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:21 pm

If not for the fact that their miles/points expire so quickly (with very limited ways of extending the life of them) and the revenue based system makes it unattractive out of NYC compared to the legacies, I would definitely fly B6 more.

But even with my status (and therefore, preference/bias) at a certain legacy mileage program, I got to admit that B6 is definitely the best domestic and Caribbean economy class out there for most customers.

You get transcons (which WN doesn't enjoy doing) and assigned seating (which WN lacks) plus a fun atmosphere. All pluses in my book.
 
mpdpilot
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RE: Bloomberg Newsweek Gives Jetblue A Beating

Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:04 pm

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 30):
I did read the article and find it biased for the simple fact that LUV hit $22 a share in 2000 and now is at about 8 but flirted with 7 for a while. Thats almost 70% off its high. So while yes JBLU is off its high , its not exactly in a unique situation, every airline is in the tank right now. While the article is being accurate, I am not sure why JBLU was singled out.

I think if you talk to most analysts they would tell you that both B6 and WN have an uncertain future (as in where they go from here). WN and B6 no longer have the advantages they once enjoyed. They don't have too many more markets that fit their current strategy. UA and DL and in time AA have become far more capable competitors. B6 has even more issues than WN with its network based in the busy NE corridor that causes delays with weather and congestion. People talk about how travelers are willing to accept more issues with the legacies, I think that the legacies are just getting better. The legacies are offering a much better and a more hassle free product than they did just 3-4 years ago. Gone are the days of JetBlue or Southwest being successful in any market.

I think jetBlue has to move away from their focus on the NE corridor and until they do, they will not improve. If I were running jetBlue I would be looking at ORD after the modernization project, or STL and MCI now as options for increased service. If they want to continue to be a leisure based company that is fine mid-westerners love to get out of the cold.

I think Southwest has to expand into the international market or use smaller planes, either way they need to expand and there aren't a lot of routes left for them to expand with their current product.

It isn't all doom and gloom but it isn't sit back and continue doing what your doing either.
One mile of highway gets you one mile, one mile of runway gets you anywhere.
 
yeelep
Posts: 766
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 7:53 pm

RE: Bloomberg Newsweek Gives Jetblue A Beating

Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:37 am

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 30):
I did read the article and find it biased for the simple fact that LUV hit $22 a share in 2000 and now is at about 8 but flirted with 7 for a while. Thats almost 70% off its high. So while yes JBLU is off its high , its not exactly in a unique situation, every airline is in the tank right now.

There's always an exception to every rule. Alaska is not in the tank, at least for now.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 8593
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

RE: Bloomberg Newsweek Gives Jetblue A Beating

Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:38 am

Another reason they don't have as much biz travel is that Big Corporate America has to fly certain carriers and is rewarded with additional discounts when it generates a certain volume thereon. I know a Big Executive at a Big Financial Company who is basically forced to fly AA when he goes from NY to the West Coast, which is pretty often these days. And because he's an honorable guy, he doesn't try to game the system and understands why the rules are what they are - i.e. he takes his responsibilities to his company seriously. But he recently "got" to try B6 because the in-house travel dept let him that day due to the loads (and thus the fares) on AA, and he said he would use them as often as the company "let" him because he really loved the experience. It was kind of sad for B6, but kind of cute, that the guy was excited about "getting" to use B6 given his position at the company. It also shows that their product stacks up very well when put into a market undistorted by corporate contracts and givebacks to employees (i.e FF miles).
 
BMI727
Posts: 11300
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:29 pm

RE: Bloomberg Newsweek Gives Jetblue A Beating

Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:33 am

Quoting stlgph (Reply 26):
Clearly you're all airline lovers and not into the ins and outs of markets, business, and investments - especially if you're calling the reporting of their stock being down 80% from the high value as 'crap'.

It is crap if you're going to point that out and then try to support that point by talking about a flight attendant escaping down a slide.

And there is also the small matter of the recession, which has a tendency to make share prices go down from their highs.

Quoting g500 (Thread starter):
JetBlue now ranks last among 15 airlines in on-time performance and ninth in customer complaints to the Department of Transportation—three times Southwest Airlines’ (LUV) complaint ratio.

If the airline with a hub at JFK doesn't finish near the bottom in on time rankings, other airlines have serious problems.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
cargolex
Posts: 1245
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 5:20 pm

RE: Bloomberg Newsweek Gives Jetblue A Beating

Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:49 am

A key point from the article:

Quote:

JetBlue remains profitable, having posted net income of $86 million last year, ending 2011 with about $1.2 billion in cash and short-term investments.

One major is in chapter 11, the others have all been in it within the last decade. The market leading LCC, WN, is having a variety of issues crop up because of it's massive size and moderate indigestion from the FL purchase. F9/Republic has all kinds of issues.

When you evaluate B6 as a "business in trouble" I think you need to put those "troubles" in context and the article doesn't really seem to.

From a personal standpoint, I'm a loyal AS customer, because about 90% of the time, they have exactly the flight I want at the price I want, and I live in their mega hub city. But when I can't fly AS for a domestic route, I choose B6. It's a great airline and I've yet to have any kind of negative experience with them, and I've probably flown them about five or six times in the last few years, and now will fly them regularly for some routes. The service is good, the planes are clean, legroom is good, and the experience is professional and positive all around. I can't say that's always true of some other carriers (and there will always be incidents even with carriers one likes), and I just can't agree with the assessment that this is a "bad company" or has "little luster left."
 
phxa340
Posts: 1095
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:07 am

RE: Bloomberg Newsweek Gives Jetblue A Beating

Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:22 am

Believe it or not US Airways stock was above 60 dollars at one point. Alaska is definitely the exception , not the rule. Working in the financial world , a stock price is not always a good indicator of the financial health of a company. While most of the time stocks give a good indication, many of times I have seen companies completely overvalued or undervalued by the market. As many members have pointed out I think JBLU has differentiated itself among its competitors with a great product but your not going to stick around forever if you can't grow your route network profitably.
 
hatbutton
Posts: 285
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:39 am

RE: Bloomberg Newsweek Gives Jetblue A Beating

Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:10 am

I know B6 is loved for their not overbooking policy, but I think it really hurts their bottom line. I think the extra revenue gained from overbooking flights far outweighs having to ask for or involuntarily deny people on the flight. At the airline I work for I was absolutely shocked at how many millions of dollars an airline makes from people who just flat out don't show up for their flight and never rebook that ticket for another trip. B6 likely makes a good amount of money from no shows, but the problem is, they aren't selling a ticket to another person who is willing to show up and take that seat. So from my experience looking at revenues on the inside, I think they are leaving a lot of money out there by not overbooking.

I also have wondered if they would be better served to reduce their seat pitch to the standard in the industry of 31 or 32" and get another 12-18 seats on the plane. Yes, they would need to add another flight attendant, but filling another 12 seats with revenue-paying passengers more than offsets the cost of that extra flight attendant. F9 fits about 164 seats in their A320s vs B6's 150 and they still have 4 rows of extra legroom. They just choose 36" pitch and 31" pitch for their seats instead of 38" and 34" like B6.
 
flyguy89
Posts: 2773
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:43 pm

RE: Bloomberg Newsweek Gives Jetblue A Beating

Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:55 pm

Quoting hatbutton (Reply 45):
F9 fits about 164 seats in their A320s vs B6's 150 and they still have 4 rows of extra legroom.

...and which of those airlines is profitable and which isn't?
 
hatbutton
Posts: 285
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:39 am

RE: Bloomberg Newsweek Gives Jetblue A Beating

Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:39 pm



Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 46):
...and which of those airlines is profitable and which isn't?

I was not commenting on F9's profits. I was commenting on the fact that an A320 can comfortably fit more seats. If you're so set on comparing to an airline that makes more money than B6 (on a margin basis) and flies A320s then why not just cram them on like NK does? 174 seats. They're profitable right? My argument had nothing to do with F9's business model being better than B6's. It was strictly about seats.

B6 made money, but their margins weren't great. I believe their adjusted pre tax margin for 2011 was just over 3%. In the airline industry you need better margins than that unless you're going to grow like crazy. At some point your costs continue to catch up to you and you need more revenue from somewhere.

[Edited 2012-04-10 07:41:55]
 
ASA
Posts: 1115
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:12 pm

RE: Bloomberg Newsweek Gives Jetblue A Beating

Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:23 pm

Quoting hatbutton (Reply 45):
I also have wondered if they would be better served to reduce their seat pitch to the standard in the industry of 31 or 32" and get another 12-18 seats on the plane. Yes, they would need to add another flight attendant, but filling another 12 seats with revenue-paying passengers more than offsets the cost of that extra flight attendant. F9 fits about 164 seats in their A320s vs B6's 150 and they still have 4 rows of extra legroom. They just choose 36" pitch and 31" pitch for their seats instead of 38" and 34" like B6.
Quoting hatbutton (Reply 47):
I was commenting on the fact that an A320 can comfortably fit more seats.

Well - I think many would disagree. 31" is not a very comfortable legroom ... it's just okay! compared to that 34" is like heaven! so something has to be there in an airline to make it a 'popular' one and with some 'luster' left. just on time cheap service ain't going to cut it anymore - we all know that. JetBlue has found a business model to work with while being popular and also making profit ... contrary to VX or F9, both good airlines themselves. So hats off to them!

And IF ... heaven forbid ... IF JetBlue reduces the seat to 31" for better profits ... everybody (including media and a-netters) will be up in arms squabbling about their service in addition to some occasional mishaps. Even this thread is running on fumes based on similar shallow reporting. So in the long run, I don't see how fitting more in the A320s would help in the long run.
 
hatbutton
Posts: 285
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:39 am

RE: Bloomberg Newsweek Gives Jetblue A Beating

Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:57 pm

Quoting ASA (Reply 48):
Well - I think many would disagree. 31" is not a very comfortable legroom ... it's just okay! compared to that 34" is like heaven! so something has to be there in an airline to make it a 'popular' one and with some 'luster' left.

And I would argue that if 34" is really heaven and is the reason people fly B6, then they should be commanding a premium for those seats over airlines who only have 31". I would venture to guess they are not doing so and any time I non rev on B6 I end up sitting in the extra legroom rows up front because not many people pay for them. I feel like the 34" pitch is another example of something people say they would stop flying B6 for if they moved to 34" yet when push comes to shove, as long as B6 charges a cheaper ticket price, they will still continue to fly them. This has been proved time and again for many changes in the industry.

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