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lightsaber
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RE: Houston Airport System Supports International HOU

Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:58 am

Southwest is going to start international expansion. Their 1st choice is HOU. If that is denied, their 2nd choice will be another city!

"Southwest will continue to expand internationally at other U.S. cities if it cannot do so at Hobby, leading to fewer local air travelers at Hobby, diversion of connecting passengers from Houston and the loss of associated economic benefit," Diaz wrote.

Quote from From:
http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/a...ouston-aviation-director-side.html

So the question is, for city of Houston, does it benefit them more to open the required facilities at HOU or to force WN to hub at another city? Seriously, without the connections HOU offers, international flights out of Houston for WN would be trivial. They would instead launch service from another airport in most likely another state.

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 73):
The WN network is going through HOU. That is where passengers will connect. This really isn't that difficult to understand.

  

WN is obviously going to launch international service from airports that they already have a significant presence. I'm actually surprised they didn't start from either FLL, BWI, MCO, or LAX (terminal 2?). Either HOU provides the FIS and associated services, or WN starts the service elsewhere and offers Houston O&D traffic connections elsewhere (e.g., FLL to the Caribbean).

Whichever airport launches international service from is likely to gain the most connections and thus the most jobs. Now since WN flies out of MDW, Dallas is out of the consideration for obvious reasons.

How final is this decision? What other steps must be passed before WN is able to launch international service from HOU?

Lightsaber
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2travel2know2
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RE: Houston Airport System Supports International HOU

Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:37 pm

So how long is going to take to have that International concourse @ HOU ready?
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slider
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RE: Houston Airport System Supports International HOU

Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:34 pm

Quoting sccutler (Reply 95):
Don’t forget: CBP is infrastructure, the instrument of policy - not the creator thereof.

So, it is an issue, but not a barrier. Now would be the time to aggressively work with federal policy makers to ensure that any shortages of qualified CBP personnel are rectified. Maybe take a little bit of DHS' bullet budget?
Quoting yellowtail (Reply 96):
This is a policy issue....

For both comments, however, it's my contention that this is a barrier and a legitimate one. You are both correct that there is a policy aspect to this, but the execution of it is a real concern. We'd like to think that this business is unregulated, but that's a misnomer and has been since so-called 'deregulation'. There are few barriers to entry for anyone to start an airline, but there ARE legitimate and real issues pertaining to scarcity and personnel allocation, Federal budgeting and staffing, etc.

This is a huge issue. History shows that when it comes to CBP staffing, it's very much a zero-sum game: there won't be incremental headcount for this, which means they're coming from IAH in all likelihood which means every other airline--UA included--will be inconvenienced as a result. So for those who want to make the fairness argument, that knife cuts both ways.
 
737tanker
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RE: Houston Airport System Supports International HOU

Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:49 pm

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 101):
So how long is going to take to have that International concourse @ HOU ready?


It will most likely happen faster than it is going to take for WN to fix their IT so it can handle international reservations!

[Edited 2012-04-16 10:03:31]
 
IAHWorldflyer
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RE: Houston Airport System Supports International HOU

Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:06 pm

So most of the argument against WN opening up international service from HOU comes down to the amount of FIS agents needed and whether these agents will be pulled from IAH. I could see this as a legitimate argument, however, under re-disricting IAH will continue to be in Sheila Jackson Lee's 18th district, and it looks like Gene Green will take over HOU from Pete Olsen. Anyone who has lived in Houston for a while knows that both Jackson-Lee and Green are very good about bringing home federal dollars ( pork) for their districts. They also have both stayed in office for a very long time, despite the fact that they are Democrats in a very Republican state by providing above average constituent services. Were HOU to get the go ahead for FIS facilities, I would expect both of these politicians to insure that staffing dollars were inserted in the federal budget that did not cannibalize the staff levels at IAH.
Another point which I have not seen discussed much here is that HOU has a catchment area, that while overlapping with IAH, is certainly distinct for a large population within the Houston-Galveston MSA. For some living in Pearland, League City, or Friendswood, the drive to IAH is 40-50 miles or more. I know that Houston is no New York, but if you can imagine people in Morristown, NJ being told their only option for international flights was JFK, they would not be happy. And since IAH and HOU are operated by a single entity ( HAS), just like the PANYNJ operates EWR and JFK, the revenue streams equal out and are a net plus for the airport operators. Since CO ( UA) discontinued their commuter service to EFD several years ago, that market is ceded more and more to WN at HOU.
 
strfyr51
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RE: Houston Airport System Supports International HOU

Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:53 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 37):
Quoting commavia (Reply 37):
Quoting commavia (Reply 37):

All that you SAY is True HOWEVER look at the finer Point?? IF Hoston OVERTLY ignores UAL's concerns? Then UAL has NO reason other than to continue the South American International service the Hub is in PLACE for and the PRIME reason FOR the Merger,,and ALL future international service to Europe OR Asia can be TAG end flights TO IAH and they need NOT originate @ IAH.. and that Includes the proposed IAH-AKL B787 flight than can be flown just as easily out of LAX. and connected IAH TO lax.. Can't it?? I mean if it's about what CAN be done?? There ALSO sems to be some misconception that Moving the whq to Chicago was a choice... It WASN'T!! Smisek agreed TO that condition because the BOD at
UAL said this is the WAY it WAS GOING to Be..(ergo the 55-45% split in owenership) I believe that's why Larry Kellner departed so abruptly.Kellner was a SEASONED veteran who could have run the combined UAL effectively. Tilton and Smisek are " Pitch Men." Neithe rRan or Run United day to day. Hell Nobody actually KNOWS What they REALLY did or DO!!
 
IAHWorldflyer
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RE: Houston Airport System Supports International HOU

Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:36 pm

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 105):
Kellner was a SEASONED veteran who could have run the combined UAL effectively. Tilton and Smisek are " Pitch Men." Neithe rRan or Run United day to day.

These men's backgrounds are what's important. Kellner had been the CEO of a California bank before being recruited to CO by Gordan Bethune. Smisek has always been a lawyer and finance man. Kellner had the "big picture" experience of running a large organization, while Smisek tends to have a focus on the numbers. Strictly my opinion, but I think Larry did a better job of building teamwork within the organization.
As to you other point, if UA pulls the AKL service, it won't be because WN is flying Mom, Dad, and the 3 kids to a beach vacation in Cancun. If the AKL service makes Smisek money, he will keep it. If not, then oh well. The only thing UA is worried about is their high margins on near Latin American services due to competition. There's something out of whack when a ticket to BZE costs as much as a ticket to Paris.
 
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yellowtail
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RE: Houston Airport System Supports International HOU

Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:43 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 100):
WN is obviously going to launch international service from airports that they already have a significant presence. I'm actually surprised they didn't start from either FLL, BWI, MCO, or LAX (terminal 2?). Either HOU provides the FIS and associated services, or WN starts the service elsewhere and offers Houston O&D traffic connections elsewhere (e.g., FLL to the Caribbean).

Whichever airport launches international service from is likely to gain the most connections and thus the most jobs. Now since WN flies out of MDW, Dallas is out of the consideration for obvious reasons.

How final is this decision? What other steps must be passed before WN is able to launch international service from HOU?

FLL is not an option for WN. WN have publicly stated that the want a middle off the USA / gulf coast airport for their int' ops. They have publicly stated that they will use AUS or SAT if HOU doesn't want to play ball. Right now IAH is a nightmare in the international FIS line certain times of the day...if WN were to (hypothetically) open at AUS (Vs HOU) at is was a breeze you would see a lot of traffic get diverted. That would definitely be worse for HAS and Houston in general than having an International terminal at HOU.

For these reasons I see this a done deal.

Quoting 737tanker (Reply 103):
It will most likely happen faster than it is going to take for WN to fix their IT so it can handle international reservations!

A close friend of mine who works at HOU tells me, HOU could have a temp facility ready in about 8 months.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
2travel2know2
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RE: Houston Airport System Supports International HOU

Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:25 pm

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 107):
A close friend of mine who works at HOU tells me, HOU could have a temp facility ready in about 8 months.

For what I've seen of HOU, if they're willing to set for temporary F.I.S. in 8 weeks HOU could get one, albeit for only one arrival every 60-75 min.
See the kind of in-terminal International gates w/ F.I.S. airports like CHS, ORF, MKE, ELP, TUS (just as examples) have.
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
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yellowtail
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RE: Houston Airport System Supports International HOU

Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:00 pm

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 108):
For what I've seen of HOU, if they're willing to set for temporary F.I.S. in 8 weeks HOU could get one, albeit for only one arrival every 60-75 min.
See the kind of in-terminal International gates w/ F.I.S. airports like CHS, ORF, MKE, ELP, TUS (just as examples) have.

They need top have 3 gates arrival minimum to start. Departures can go from any gate. The real issue is not immigration. It is CPB and secure baggage claim
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Houston Airport System Supports International HOU

Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:46 pm

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 107):
FLL is not an option for WN. WN have publicly stated that the want a middle off the USA / gulf coast airport for their int' ops. They have publicly stated that they will use AUS or SAT if HOU doesn't want to play ball.

Interesting. Than 'coastal' international operations will be a future growth mode.

Oh, you probably noticed my typo. DAL not MDW... oops.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 107):
For these reasons I see this a done deal.

I agree. I was trying to lay out the 'game theory' as to why Houston (or the Houston FAA) not providing this position would be at a loss. Where WN launches international service is 'annointed' to receive quite a bit of expanion.

Quoting IAHworldflyer (Reply 104):
I could see this as a legitimate argument, however, under re-disricting IAH will continue to be in Sheila Jackson Lee's 18th district, and it looks like Gene Green will take over HOU from Pete Olsen.

Interesting point... this will ensure job growth.  
Quoting yellowtail (Reply 107):
HOU could have a temp facility ready in about 8 months.

Thank you. I'm not sure if that is quick or slow... but it sounds reasonable for a government process.

Lightsaber
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